GrrlPower III: Crisis Of Infinite Filler Comics

[Ciffo]

I'm very courious to see how they will manage to get the artifacts... I see a couple of way around it:
1- deactivate the field (no info on how hard that can be, peraphs it will activate "the bone guardian")
2- "use" someone that can't be killed by the field (not sure if possible)
3- use small teleport... almost too easy!

I almost bet the solution will not be one of those

[Traab]

Opal can open portals remotely, and im pretty sure the council has admitted they have a very very hard time dealing with super powers, so open a portal underneath the items they want, and it appears back at deus ex machina industries.

[lord_khaine]

Well that was one way to do it, but it seemed like a really stupid way to solve this. It cost Sciona an ally, and drives home the point that she will betray you at the drop of a hat for everyone else.

Thats not a strategy for long time survival.

[Traab]

Thats assuming this guy cant regenerate once pulled out of the field or something. He DOES look sorta reptillianish.

[lord_khaine]

It is a good point, i had been thinking about it after i made that post.
Wyrmil has been mentioned to be amazingly resillient several times and this comic might have been mainly made for shock value.

For it is a complete waste to do it with an ally, when you could have brought a hamster, or a puppy, or several puppies, to do this with.

[Ibrinar]

And the author comment even says you could do it with an animal. But I agree with some of the comments on the comic the death thingie must have some penetration otherwise it would just kill the skin. So I will just assume it needed to be someone like him because you needed someone with high resilience.

[Lamech]

I suspect Wyrmil will survive. We've had references to Wyrmil's toughness, and I don't think Sciona would burn allies like this when she could have gotten some cows to do the trick. Like actual cows. Or a gaggle of snakes.

Also it seems that everyone on Sciona's team had a role to play.
Dr. Chuckles: Recruitment
Coot: Initial Breach
Vampire Lady: Moving the drill. Also insider information.
Wyrmil: Wormhole generation.

I wonder what Dr. Chuckles is up too.

[Kantaki]

My money is on alive but somewhat annoyed with Sciona's approach.
Even more so once Deus reveals his method.

[Ibrinar]

Btw I find it a bit odd for a planning based villain to needlessly either kill off or piss off allies. If an animal really would have worked.

[Drascin]

Btw I find it a bit odd for a planning based villain to needlessly either kill off or piss off allies. If an animal really would have worked.

This latest comic kind of clears thing up. This sequence wasn't ever actually meant to showcase Sciona as a planner or a legitimate villain. It was meant to showcase that magical people are stupid and Deus is the cleverest clever. Including the fact that apparently for some reason the field made to not let nonliving matter through will allow a sword to fall out and he was the only one smart enough to realize.

[-D-]

This latest comic kind of clears thing up. This sequence wasn't ever actually meant to showcase Sciona as a planner or a legitimate villain. It was meant to showcase that magical people are stupid and Deus is the cleverest clever. Including the fact that apparently for some reason the field made to not let nonliving matter through will allow a sword to fall out and he was the only one smart enough to realize.

I don't have problem with Deus solving the riddle in a clever way, e.g. by magiciking a portal using his henchman as some here said.

I do have a problem with a solution, that basically relies on you not remembering that field kills living matter and destroying non living matter. This solution was just lazy. I mean at first I though why not make a solid beam of energy, instead of a tunnel And then I remembered that it destroys non living things like the things it's supposed to keep safe. This makes solution is just

[lord_khaine]

I feel like i need to make a couple of comments in defence of the last few comics.

First, of course the sword is not destroyed by the barrier. The majority of the items here are horrible and evil. The council would not hide them in a regenerating steel vault at the bottom of the ocean, if they were able to destroy them so easily.
So its honestly not any sort of surprise that the energy barrier doesnt do anything to the artifacts.

As for how the energy field were bypassed, well this is the last gasp measure. People were not suposed to know how it works to start with.
In design this is an excellent way to waste the time of intruders. In a normal situation a team of intruders would be presented with a riddle in the shape of a field that disintegrates everything that touches it, and no doubt spend a lot of time watching whatever tool they try and push though fall apart while a coucil strike team is rushing towards the vault, alerted by the alarm.

But of course its a lot easier to break into something if you have somehow managed to get a complete set of plans over its traps and alarms.

[Calemyr]

This latest comic kind of clears thing up. This sequence wasn't ever actually meant to showcase Sciona as a planner or a legitimate villain. It was meant to showcase that magical people are stupid and Deus is the cleverest clever. Including the fact that apparently for some reason the field made to not let nonliving matter through will allow a sword to fall out and he was the only one smart enough to realize.

Don't completely agree. Sciona isn't being stupid, here, just ruthless. She's using her skillset to achieve her goals, and never suggested herself to be anyone's friend. If Wyrmil's got enough regeneration to pull through and Chuckles is on hand, they've got an easily repeatable strategy that will end with everybody (but the universally detested sacrificial pawn) walks out alive and holding their hearts' desires. Wyrmil wouldn't have liked the strategy, however, and would likely have gotten cold feet if he'd known about it ahead of time. Had Deus not shown up, he would have been reluctant but willing to repeat the process after he'd seen first hand that it worked and did not permanently damage him. They part ways knowing that Sciona is ruthless, but gets the job done and everybody that matters survives and gets paid, however difficult and painful the job might prove to be. That's good cred to have as a villain.

Deus's solution, however, was pure poetry. He didn't just use "a stick" to knock the sword loose. That wouldn't have worked because a stick is already dead and thus isn't living matter. A potted plant, however, is living enough to cross the threshold but inert enough to be considered an acceptable sacrifice. Baboo in particular might have been a wise choice because it's a hardy plant, less likely to disintegrate too much before finishing the job. As a solution, it wouldn't have worked under most circumstances, as portals are usually blocked, so a thief would have to break through this vault and all it's defenses while toting a greenhouse. Letting Sciona go first, however, let him exploit a tiny loophole (you don't have to be sentient to be alive) in a way that should have never been practical. Not like bringing disposable minions that can carry their own weight before serving their purpose, anyway. End result is that Deus gets exactly what he wants with a minimum of effort and virtually no sacrifice, through a little foresight and shrewd application of his minions' skillsets. That's excellent cred to have when you want to surpass the roles of hero and villain the way Deus seems to want to.

Using the old Unbreakable formula of the Brute and the Brains, Sciona is the Brute. Despite her intelligence, she's applying it in a brute force fashion by treating her skillset as a hammer and every obstacle as a nail. She's clearly still effective, but Deus is demonstrating that it's a limited approach that achieves its goal with side consequences rather than side benefits.

And yeah, in a sense, Sciona's role in this does indeed seem to simply be Worfed by Deus in terms of effectiveness, which is honestly just how stories work. Every arc villain before the last is typically inferior to the final villain, because that's how progression goes. After all, Sciona has already proven herself to be more effective than Vehemence and Vehemence was already quite effective. What's interesting here is that Deus is not proving himself stronger than Sciona (he clearly isn't, he just employs people who he believes are), it's that he's proving himself to be better. Better strategy, better leadership, better outcomes at a better price. And, amusingly for someone who outright rejects the relevance of the concept, better morality as well.

That said, this battle isn't over and another twist could certainly still make an appearance. I kinda doubt it, though. At this point, I think it'll take a nice predictable coast to a conclusion: Sciona will get riled up, Cthillia will side with Deus, and Sciona will loose her cool and either attack Deus (which would prove... unwise) or leaves, sacrificing what's left of her minions in a gory fashion to cover her escape.

That said, there's an outcome I'd like better: Deus gets what he wants and then grants his minions permission to butcher Sciona's group (possibly including Cthillia). As they resist and curse him in impotent rage, Deus simply asks them why they thought he'd actually allow dangerous individuals with dangerous agendas to walk out of a dangerous vault like this with dangerous artifacts? That would be... dangerously irresponsible, would it not? Oh, and Cthillia? As much as I respect a good free agent, I expect better judgment from my employees. I believe this incident counts as grounds for termination. I'll have a word with HR on your behalf.

Yeah, it would be a bit of an anti-climax as the heroes walk into the aftermath of an adventure rather than participating in one, but the fallout could easily be more interesting than an obligatory boss battle. And I want Deus to demonstrate himself to be more than just the joke his eccentricities paint him as.

[HandofShadows]

Actually I thnk Deus does have some morals. He is moraly opposed to losing.

Dues does prove he is better here. But I don't think he was out to prove it in this case. I rather think it's "I'm not great (Actually, I am), but you (Sciona) really are bad."

[Drascin]

See, here's the thing.

If bamboo lasts enough after being killed by the field to knock the sword off the pedestal, and there is nothing actually holding the sword in... what is stopping any magical person that actually manages to get here from just casting Summon Monster 1 and manually throwing a badger at it, or just bringing any shrunk animal in a pocket? Like, seeing how it seems to start from the outside in, a badger would seem likely to in fact last more than a thin stick of bamboo.

If Deus had used some very specific technological solution, I would have accepted "the people who set this up didn't think of tech because magical council hubris" or even "this was invented twenty years ago, and the defenses were set up eight hundred years ago, I just knew how to bring an Outside Context Problem in". But the way Deus did this, this field is defeated by Roy's bag of random animals, or anyone able to get an animal in here, which represents... a VERY large chunk of the magical population, I would assume. Basically anyone with a shrink spell, a bag of holding, or a summon spell (I expect that at least summons would also be normally blocked, at least, but a barrier that only works because of a different barrier might as well not be there, because either Barrior 1 works, in which case barrier 2 in never tested, or barrier 1 is beaten, at which point Barrier 2 does not exist) - or a fruit.

But in general, this is just building on the rest of the sequence. The Council and the magical creatures have generally been depicted as not terribly bright because they're "old" and "old fashioned" (which is a thing that always annoys me, because surprise, people five hundred years ago were not more stupid than we are), while the entire narrative seems to suck Deus's **** every time he appears hard enough he might as well be a light novel villain. And here is Sciona, introduced as a ruthless, clever planner, completely worfed by a solution that any first level wizard apprentice would have been able to come up with. And it's not even villain progression, because she hasn't even gotten to have a legitimate conflict with our protagonists and she's already a laughingstock. She might as well be Paste-pot Pete at this point. So all I can assume is that either Sciona exists to prop how awesome Deus is, or it was a completely pointless detour. Either or.

Basically, this seems entirely superfluous. Nothing that can actually get here could have the slightest trouble breaching these fields if the only thing you need to do is "cast anything that creates something alive" (ie, literally any first level druid spell) "then throw it in". Or heck, just bring a handful of potatoes in a pocket and throw them into the field. A potato is alive in the same way bamboo is, for months after plucking it! And the fact that Sciona had this elaborate way of bypassing it that would be necessary if the field actually did what the comic said it did but would be "clever, but ruthless and wasteful" is entirely undercut just so Deus can look pseudoclever for thinking what the entire comment section of the comic figured inside of three seconds and then dismissed because it would be too easy and lame.

You get what I mean? It's not just that the solution is lame and not the solution to the actual puzzle presented. We all have a spot of dumb writing, it happens. It's that this comes after a lot little things that nagged me about how things are presented with regards to the council and Sciona and how the writer seems to love Deus too much, and this is just the most obvious case.

[Calemyr]

Summoning and portals should not be working. Sciona disabled those wards, which was probably an amazing achievement to be honest, but that hasn't been pointed out yet. Granted, an apple toss would be a solution, but it requires someone willing to consider simple answer in favor of complicated ones, a trait that scores some extra points for Deus from me. That's the myopia Deus is mocking - both the council and Sciona are thinking big and aggressive, where Deus noticed that small and passive works would get the job done easier.

One thing I need to stress, however, is that we're in the middle of the scene. There's a lot of detail we may yet get. It could be bamboo has a supernatural/religious trait that makes it just that little bit more resistant. It could be that it's just that hardy, or that he likes bamboo so he had some on hand. If nothing else, they're spare weapons for Heavenly Sword.

Also, since we're not even out of the conversation, much less the scene or the arc, we don't know what the consequences will be. Is Deus gathering the resources for a true villainous gambit? Is this the moment where the Twilight Council gets their collective heads out of their nethers regarding the importance and danger of supers (as opposed to their somewhat dismissive attitude currently)? Will one of Sciona's crew get away with an artifact that will change the game? Will Chuckles prove to be this setting's version of the Joker? It's simply to early to say it's a pointless arc. The only detail I'm pretty sure will be disappointing is that ARCSWAT won't get to play a major part in this encounter. Given the grumbling that they've been too OP in this arc already, however, I'm not going to cry if they miss the party.

This does remind me of the recent reboot of Ducktales:
Dewey: Well... sure, if you want to do it the easy way...
Scrooge: Why wouldn't you want to do it the easy way?!?!

[lord_khaine]

Using the old Unbreakable formula of the Brute and the Brains, Sciona is the Brute. Despite her intelligence, she's applying it in a brute force fashion by treating her skillset as a hammer and every obstacle as a nail. She's clearly still effective, but Deus is demonstrating that it's a limited approach that achieves its goal with side consequences rather than side benefits.

And yeah, in a sense, Sciona's role in this does indeed seem to simply be Worfed by Deus in terms of effectiveness, which is honestly just how stories work. Every arc villain before the last is typically inferior to the final villain, because that's how progression goes. After all, Sciona has already proven herself to be more effective than Vehemence and Vehemence was already quite effective. What's interesting here is that Deus is not proving himself stronger than Sciona (he clearly isn't, he just employs people who he believes are), it's that he's proving himself to be better. Better strategy, better leadership, better outcomes at a better price. And, amusingly for someone who outright rejects the relevance of the concept, better morality as well.

Well perhaps, i would like to point out that the work done to get into this vault were not the work of a Brute. It took some masterful manipulation of the Council to accidentially disable the vault alarms. And they only did so because they didnt know it was the actual target. And disabling teleporation wards, getting the traps down with a sacrificial pawn, or getting though a meter of regenerating metal wall, is not the work of a brute either.
Actually, despite all his posturing, then its unlikely Deus could have gotten in on his own. Else he would have done so.

I also dont think Sciona is more effective than Vehemence, they just have different goals. Vehemence's were to take on Max in a brawl after the challenge she issued. And he did show how he were likely the strongest super in a straight up fight, taking on Max's entire team.

But i do agree on that Deus shows himself superior when it comes to finesse and gathering information. It is almost unreal the amount of things he knows that he should not.

That said, this battle isn't over and another twist could certainly still make an appearance. I kinda doubt it, though. At this point, I think it'll take a nice predictable coast to a conclusion: Sciona will get riled up, Cthillia will side with Deus, and Sciona will loose her cool and either attack Deus (which would prove... unwise) or leaves, sacrificing what's left of her minions in a gory fashion to cover her escape.

That said, there's an outcome I'd like better: Deus gets what he wants and then grants his minions permission to butcher Sciona's group (possibly including Cthillia). As they resist and curse him in impotent rage, Deus simply asks them why they thought he'd actually allow dangerous individuals with dangerous agendas to walk out of a dangerous vault like this with dangerous artifacts? That would be... dangerously irresponsible, would it not? Oh, and Cthillia? As much as I respect a good free agent, I expect better judgment from my employees. I believe this incident counts as grounds for termination. I'll have a word with HR on your behalf.

I think both of these options are kinda unlikely though. Sciona has gotten what she wants. She is a long term planner, not someone who is going to blow it all on a risky fight.

And Deus is equally risk-adverse. There are much easier ways to resolve it if he dont want those artifacts lose. And he already explained how the vault were an extremely bad place for a fight.

See, here's the thing.

If bamboo lasts enough after being killed by the field to knock the sword off the pedestal, and there is nothing actually holding the sword in... what is stopping any magical person that actually manages to get here from just casting Summon Monster 1 and manually throwing a badger at it, or just bringing any shrunk animal in a pocket? Like, seeing how it seems to start from the outside in, a badger would seem likely to in fact last more than a thin stick of bamboo.

You are still missing out on the main challenge of the field being to actually figure out WHAT it does, after having broken though all the other security measures, and being on an strict timer. People entering the vault is not suposed to know that there is a field to start with.

Its the same way with a riddle, its a lot easier to go "thats simple" after you have seen someone solve it.

[Forum Explorer]

Something to note is that these artifacts are meant to be retrieved in some way. Some of them at least. Maybe even most of them. So they don't want to make these things too hard to get.

Also, remember when the heroes first arrived? There was the implication that a vampire had died in the fault. So we might just get that fight anyways. And I'm Deus wouldn't mind recruiting a few of Sciona's team if they betray her.

[Kantaki]

I for one like Deus solution.
Much more elegant than what Sciona came up with- or anything I came up with for that matter.
The main difference in my approach would be that I wouldn't have used my allies. I would've either brought another resource or used the available one

[Lamech]

Wait, can't Sciona regenerate? She has that Troll blood. And since the field only appears to kill the flesh that actually passes through, and the fact that the objects are using easily disrupted magical levitation instead of a proper display case, Sciona should just be able to swat the artifacts out herself. But since she is "such a ****" in the words of Ms. Medusa Cthilla, she decides to sacrifice and/or anger Wyrmil.

I do like Deus's comments about people getting paradigm locked. Applies to both the council and Sciona. She's a little to locked on the whole sacrifice solution.

[lord_khaine]

Something to note is that these artifacts are meant to be retrieved in some way. Some of them at least. Maybe even most of them. So they don't want to make these things too hard to get.

I kinda got the impression that things placed in here were suposed to newer ever get out again. It had not been opened the last 30 years, thats why the council had more or less forgotten about it.
And comic 555 describes it as "Armageddon in many small convenient packages"
Comic 560 also reveals that the council does indeed not know how to destroy the artifacts inside, so of course the sword is not going to be affected by the disruption field.

[Forum Explorer]

I kinda got the impression that things placed in here were suposed to newer ever get out again. It had not been opened the last 30 years, thats why the council had more or less forgotten about it.
And comic 555 describes it as "Armageddon in many small convenient packages"

Sure, but Sciona flat out says the knife she's after is here because it's too useful to destroy.

[lord_khaine]

Sure, but Sciona flat out says the knife she's after is here because it's too useful to destroy.

Well, she almost says that, its comic 566. Sciona first mention it can be recharged at the cost of 99 lives. And then that "Its down here because its to useful not to use"
Thats more indication of something thats being kept in the vault to prevent whoever gets their hand on it from starting a killing spree to recharge it.

[Ibrinar]

See, here's the thing.

If bamboo lasts enough after being killed by the field to knock the sword off the pedestal, and there is nothing actually holding the sword in... what is stopping any magical person that actually manages to get here from just casting Summon Monster 1 and manually throwing a badger at it, or just bringing any shrunk animal in a pocket? Like, seeing how it seems to start from the outside in, a badger would seem likely to in fact last more than a thin stick of bamboo.

Beside the point, but D&Ds easiness of calling forth living animal is hardly indicative of how easy that would be in other settings I always was a bit amused how minor of a spell that was in d&d. In many settings that would be serious ****ing magic. Because either you are creating them => super powerful or call a random being from somewhere which is pretty impressive too. Though this setting has teleports which makes it more likely that the second variant is feasible.

[The Glyphstone]

Specifically calling a random creature from another dimension,which D&D treats as trivial compared to teleportation.

[lord_khaine]

Beside the point, but D&Ds easiness of calling forth living animal is hardly indicative of how easy that would be in other settings I always was a bit amused how minor of a spell that was in d&d. In many settings that would be serious ****ing magic. Because either you are creating them => super powerful or call a random being from somewhere which is pretty impressive too. Though this setting has teleports which makes it more likely that the second variant is feasible.

Specifically calling a random creature from another dimension,which D&D treats as trivial compared to teleportation.

It should be pointed out that D&D summoning, at least the 3,5 version that belive most are familiar with, does not in fact summon some poor badger from the celestrial planes, it only summons a short-lived copy of one.

[Yuki Akuma]

It should be pointed out that D&D summoning, at least the 3,5 version that belive most are familiar with, does not in fact summon some poor badger from the celestrial planes, it only summons a short-lived copy of one.

Specifically it creates a magical copy of its body, puts its real body into stasis, yanks is soul across the multiverse and shoves it into the magical copy.

Which frankly is even more ridiculous than just teleporting the badger to the Prime Material.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And more ridiculous than just bringing a dire badger in from the next county. I mean, it's called Summon Monster, but it doesn't summon monsters. Just Outsiders and Elementals.

[Kantaki]

Specifically it creates a magical copy of its body, puts its real body into stasis, yanks is soul across the multiverse and shoves it into the magical copy.

Which frankly is even more ridiculous than just teleporting the badger to the Prime Material.

If you describe it like that it sounds like seriously high powered magic.
Not something someone fresh out of mage school can fling around.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which would be the thrust of the complaint, yes.