Can Somebody explain one Punch Man to me?

[Anonymouswizard]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

As someone who has never read it seen Dragonball (I'm not interested, sure me but I get turned off by idiot heirs, and all anyone has said about Goku has turned me off), Shine Fighting Manga (SFM) don't have this.

SFM are all about the back and forth, the one guy winning until his opponent reveals his next transformation (or in JoJo until his opponent cones up with a plan). They attempt to make it look like the main character is going to lose until he pulls out Shinigami Saiyan 9 or whatever.

I'd say the parody is when Geno's does this and Saitama bored reacts to it. 'Yeah, this has been done so much it's boring'. As has been said, it's the world that draws people in.

[Kato]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

I'm not sure what episodes of DB you've seen but this is hardly ever the case, so....

[Scowling Dragon]

My last point:

The One Punch Gag has simply BEEN done in other shows. OPM is not doing anything new. And if the hook falls flat for me, all Im left with is everything else which I dislike.

FIN

[Chromascope3D]

Epilogue:

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

- Attributed to Mark Twain

[Frozen_Feet]

Comparing to Dragon Ball is silly because DB manga started as a gag comic and veers into parody and self-parody after Cell Saga. It's only 101% serious about itself for a brief while in the middle.

So of course a parody of DB would look a lot like DB, because DB is parody of itself half the time.

Reading the webcomic and the redrawn manga, One-Punch Man is following a similar track. Some of the later plot arcs don't actually have strong parodic element to them. Some of the jokes make a return periodically, but for example key parts of Garou's arc have nothing funny in them. They may pick apart Shonen tropes in other ways, but not for humour.

When I started readin One-Punch Man, or for that matter, Mob Psycho, One's other recent work, I honestly expected something MORE comedic, only to find the humour often too dry for my tastes. I kept following both series for the somber parts which nonetheless managed to show me something new.

[lord_khaine]

Epilogue:

Very fitting.

Reading the webcomic and the redrawn manga, One-Punch Man is following a similar track. Some of the later plot arcs don't actually have strong parodic element to them. Some of the jokes make a return periodically, but for example key parts of Garou's arc have nothing funny in them. They may pick apart Shonen tropes in other ways, but not for humour.

When I started readin One-Punch Man, or for that matter, Mob Psycho, One's other recent work, I honestly expected something MORE comedic, only to find the humour often too dry for my tastes. I kept following both series for the somber parts which nonetheless managed to show me something new.

I am also following the mange close, and must say i personally like the story a lot, as well for dry wit hidden in it.
And what i most of all find engaging is the struggles of everyone else in the cast that we follows, where Saitama then more acts like a force of nature and brief spark of humor.
Though really, even without Saitama then i think there would still be a good hero story left.

[Scowling Dragon]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

[Dienekes]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

Admittedly, anime fanboys can be a bit, extreme. I live with one. Told him I thought FMA: Brotherhood was not nearly as good as he thought, and, that turned into a whole ordeal. But others have admitted to not liking the show and no one really goes after them. The reason you draw ire is two things:

1) Your typing reads like you think you're superior to everyone else. Which, I get can be unintentional, since I know I'm guilty of that, too.

2) You say that the joke has been done before, people have asked "where?" and you haven't actually given an answer. In fact the one example you did give is the exact opposite.

[golentan]

Admittedly, anime fanboys can be a bit, extreme. I live with one. Told him I thought FMA: Brotherhood was not nearly as good as he thought, and, that turned into a whole ordeal. But others have admitted to not liking the show and no one really goes after them. The reason you draw ire is two things:

1) Your typing reads like you think you're superior to everyone else. Which, I get can be unintentional, since I know I'm guilty of that, too.

2) You say that the joke has been done before, people have asked "where?" and you haven't actually given an answer. In fact the one example you did give is the exact opposite.

Pretty much this, for me. I'm cool with critiquing things that I like (heck, I do it myself a LOT to find the bad points of stuff). I'm cool with people not liking the stuff I like.

But you have to have seen the stuff you are referencing if you're gonna critique it. If someone says "Arrested Development is just a bad show, you don't get to wink to audience for having standard sitcom plots, and every sitcom has an unlikeable family at the core of the writing" you're gonna get a lot of shouting from fans of Arrested Development who feel you missed the point dramatically and from fans of sitcoms in general who think you've rarely to never watched a sitcom, even if there may be a kernel of truth in the criticism. Pretending to walk off the stage like the ensuing argument ain't worth having isn't gonna help, either.

[Kato]

My last point:

The One Punch Gag has simply BEEN done in other shows. OPM is not doing anything new. And if the hook falls flat for me, all Im left with is everything else which I dislike.

FIN

I'm sorry if you feel offended. As I said, you're free to like or dislike whatever but I also have to agree with people you poorly if at all were able to defend your point.

[Chromascope3D]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

Condescension is a form of insult. You admit to being condescending in your own signature, as though it's a badge of pride. When you act like the opinions of others are wrong just because you aren't willing to see their side, they tend to get a little irked, especially when you were the one who asked for their opinions in the first place. It makes it feel like you are just looking for a soapbox, which is not what a forum is for.

Also, you literally just followed up a comment about how you don't insult people with an insulting comment about other people.

[Scowling Dragon]

Its not even a gag as just a easily recurring thing in Fighting Mangas.

"Dragonball did it only when it was a gag Manga!"

I don't get how thats a repudiation of my point. One Punch man isn't really doing anything original even as a Gag Manga. Outside of novelty factor I find nothing to my liking.

Its not even a dragonball thing....Heck I spent time to find something to help me stress my point:



(Skip Ahead to 8:48 for the main point)

Like is because most fights in other fighting shonen don't end with one punch somehow that is all it takes to make this gag all original or something?

[golentan]

Its not even a gag as just a easily recurring thing in Fighting Mangas.

"Dragonball did it only when it was a gag Manga!"

I don't get how thats a repudiation of my point. One Punch man isn't really doing anything original even as a Gag Manga. Outside of novelty factor I find nothing to my liking.

Its not even a dragonball thing....Heck I spent time to find something to help me stress my point:

~video snip~

(Skip Ahead to 8:48 for the main point)

Like is because most fights in other fighting shonen don't end with one punch somehow that is all it takes to make this gag all original or something?

Okay, but note how the guy talks about how subversion or not, even if the word "subversion" is overused most of these shows are good shows in their own right, and how he acknowledges that for the story/gag it's telling, One Punch Man executes that story in the best way it could.

And again, as I said in my initial post on the topic, a large part of One Punch Man's appeal to me is that it does take the time to do other things and to dwell on the nature of desire, and consequences, and suffering and failure. And unlike most of the "subversive" shows it mentions, One Punch Man is generally optimistic about human nature, and meditates on the nature of heroism by showing a wide spectrum of types of heroes.

Again, you don't have to like the show. You don't have to find everything it does dripping in originality. But if you're gonna criticize it, you have to have some feeling for what it is actually doing.

And by the by, pretty much all of those "one hit kill" scenes the video mentions exist for a very different narrative purpose than Saitama's actions.

[Frozen_Feet]

@Scowling Dragon: the video you posted pretty much spells out what OPM's innovation is: it takes what is incidental part of the genre and makes it into a focal point.

The happenstance itself is not original; taking it and maintaining it as central premise of the series as long as OPM did is. But, as you could gather from my earlier comment, I agree with the video that it's worth is not really in being a subversion or parody of the Shonen series. But at the same time, that's why your criticism is falling to deaf ears. There's innovative things in OPM that have nothing at all to do with subverting or parodying Shonen fighting series. Heck, I read the webcomic to see One's original art style. The redrawn manga uses some pretty unusual paneling and detail. Can't speak for the anime due to not having watched most of it.

[Razade]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

No one's insulted you here.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

If you immediately consider people "being touchy" when they ask for evidence of your wild assertions you must feel like you live in a hyper-sensitive world...I think you should look inward if that really is the case because it isn't the world that's hypersensitive to critical analysis. It's you.

[QUOTE=Scowling Dragon;21918282]Its not even a gag as just a easily recurring thing in Fighting Mangas.

"Dragonball did it only when it was a gag Manga!"

I don't get how thats a repudiation of my point.

Well....

1. People are overstating how much the "one punch" happened even when it was a gag manga. It didn't happen that often.
2. Dragon Ball's gag run was...rather short comparative to its still ongoing run. It's a footnote of the series, not the face of it.

One Punch man isn't really doing anything original even as a Gag Manga. Outside of novelty factor I find nothing to my liking.

Cool! Don't watch it! No one here's telling you your feeling is wrong. They're pointing out your criticisms outside of "it's just not for me" aren't founded in reality.

Like is because most fights in other fighting shonen don't end with one punch somehow that is all it takes to make this gag all original or something?

You're the only one who cares if it's original.

[Drascin]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

I feel I should point out that yes, you kind of do. Which is part of why people react to your comments in such ways. Condescending at people is basically the same as telling them you think they're idiots, and people don't react super well to being treated like idiots.

[Psyren]

The other thing about One Punch Man is that it's drawn really, really well. For all Saitama's ending fights with one punch, the fights that happen in the show are much more interesting than that would imply, because other characters fight as much or more than Saitama does.

This is a major point, and part of what make's this show's satire so appealing. When you get right down to it, most shonen fights ARE ended in one punch, or one beam struggle, or one final sword move. Yet we are okay with those because there's a lot of interesting and dramatic slash-and-parry before that concluding moment. One Punch Man is no different - it just draws more attention to the final blow by making it the protagonist's signature.

[eggynack]

There's a lot I love about One Punch Man. For one thing, the one punching itself. The way it's done is nearly always amusing to me. Just his facial expression, combined with the surrounding situation, and sometimes the words being used. What was the one he used in the first animal creature episode? Four consecutive normal punches, I think. Frigging brilliant. I love a lot of Saitama stuff really, and it's a great sign when your main character is my favorite. I love him demanding a shorter speech, or running off to the supermarket (and I especially love Genos just getting it immediately, and being fully invested in this as a problem), or acting just as apathetic in the face of jerk threats as he does to monster threats. Basically any scene with him in it is great stuff. To some extent, the show is about Saitama hoping to find a fight he can get invested in, but another huge part of the show is just him not really caring about a bunch of stuff, and while that doesn't sound all that great, I find it's done in a really consistently fun way.

There's other stuff I love too though. Mostly in the form of other characters. Mumen Rider is a classic, Genos is solid, especially in Saitama interactions, and most of the other heroes throughout the various levels are pretty interesting and fleshed out. Sometimes the, "Characters that aren't Saitama fight something poorly," scenes don't work that well, particularly that one with the vegetable tentacle monster fight, in my opinion, but stuff like the Sea King fights, and the alien invasion fights, were pretty creative, amusing, and interesting.

Oh, also all that thematic stuff too. Subversions and nihilism or whatever. Theme is great. A lot of it, though, is down to the fact that it's just a really well made show on every level. Good characters, good plot, funny lines/events, reasonable pacing, good animation, good music, dynamic fight scenes, what more could you really want? I would contend two things. First, that the underlying premise of the show is rather original. A character that wins every fight, no matter its nature, trivially, with the only limiting factor that he's sometimes not where the fight is, is really novel from my experience of media. Second, that the underlying premise doesn't have to be original. Because the show is good. I doubt it's just another member of its genre, but if it is, it's a really good one, and that's good enough for me.

[Phobia]

"Guy starts out being a condescending jerk but switches to victim mid-way through people responding" isn't very original either but here you are.

[Knaight]

This is a major point, and part of what make's this show's satire so appealing. When you get right down to it, most shonen fights ARE ended in one punch, or one beam struggle, or one final sword move. Yet we are okay with those because there's a lot of interesting and dramatic slash-and-parry before that concluding moment. One Punch Man is no different - it just draws more attention to the final blow by making it the protagonist's signature.

That's not really the same thing though - the fight ending in the one shot that gets through is pretty standard (it certainly has plenty of historical precedent, although so does taking multiple smaller wounds). The fight ending in the one shot made at all is fairly distinct, which is theoretically the central joke of OPM (I watched part of it, but it really didn't appeal at all so I ditched it pretty quickly).

[Leewei]

"Guy starts out being a condescending jerk but switches to victim mid-way through people responding" isn't very original either but here you are.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to the guy in the emergency shelter who stepped up to get beat down by Sea King?

For me, the charm of the show lies in its ironically mundane humor, as well as its delicious subversion of the anime "not yet my final form" cliche. It also has some genuine, played straight, heroism from time to time, to keep you engaged.

[Knaight]

I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to the guy in the emergency shelter who stepped up to get beat down by Sea King?

I'm pretty sure that line is aimed less toward OPM and more towards this thread.

[Traab]

That's not really the same thing though - the fight ending in the one shot that gets through is pretty standard (it certainly has plenty of historical precedent, although so does taking multiple smaller wounds). The fight ending in the one shot made at all is fairly distinct, which is theoretically the central joke of OPM (I watched part of it, but it really didn't appeal at all so I ditched it pretty quickly).

I agree, while its true most fights end that way, its far more rare that thats all the fight there is. Its usually only done in two scenarios

A) To show off just how insanely powerful the new character is, to demonstrate how far the hero has to go before he can fight on that level. As an example, in early bleach when byakuya takes rukia back to soul society and just casually obliterates ichigo "You even fall slow" /stab again

B) To show off just how absurdly powerful the hero has become. As an example from one piece, when the crew are being attacked by like, 50,000 bad guys, and luffy just walks up, looks at them, and half of the force drops from his use of conquerors haki. Most commonly done after a training timeskip of some sort, ichigo training in uruharas basement area before they invade soul society, the two years for the one piece crew, etc etc etc.

Meanwhile the entire collection of one punch battles are B) Yeah the bad guy might land a few billion hits, but its blatantly obvious they should have used all that effort to arrange a closed casket funeral for themselves, because saitama casually winds back and ends the fight in a single shot. Admittedly im only watching an episode here and there, so im only at the one where he goes in to become an official hero, but it seems that while yes the joke is he beats everyone with no effort, the real interesting part is everything else going on around him. All the character interaction and such. Personally, I find the various backstories and motivations amusing as heck. The 10,000 foot tall giant who just wanted to be the strongest body guilder ever and his crazy scientist brother, the hammerhead guy and his army of power suit using dudes who dont want to have to work for a living, its all so bizarre and entertaining to see these obvious parodies of origin stories.

[Psyren]

I agree, while its true most fights end that way, its far more rare that thats all the fight there is.

My point is that that's NOT "all the fight there is." Even in OPM. If it were, I'd agree it would be boring - but it's not, and isn't.

[Knaight]

My point is that that's NOT "all the fight there is." Even in OPM. If it were, I'd agree it would be boring - but it's not, and isn't.

There's definitely some amount of Saitama just showing up and decking a guy in the earlier episodes, where that's about the extent of the fight. I can't comment on the later ones.

As for whether that makes it boring, I personally found OPM pretty boring there - but not so much because the fights weren't interesting. There are interesting fights in Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, and a lot of the other really low grade Shonen that makes it to U.S. TV. The shows are still boring though, because other than the fights there's not really much to them, and even a bunch of really interesting fights strung together gets old after a while (certainly compared to the episode count of these shows). Similarly if you took something like Moribito and made the fights all end nigh instantaneously the overall show would still be solid, because of everything else to it. It would be worse, but not actually boring.

[Psyren]

There's definitely some amount of Saitama just showing up and decking a guy in the earlier episodes, where that's about the extent of the fight. I can't comment on the later ones.

When that happens though it's played for laughs. No different than, say, Goku one-shotting Recoome.

[Delicious Taffy]

{Scrubbed}

[BRC]

One Punch Man (At least in it's Anime incarnation, which is the only version I've seen. IIRC there was an original webcomic, and then later a Manga adaptation done by a professional artist), falls into that catagory of "Loving Parody", in that in order to enjoy it you need to both enjoy Shonen tropes while also being able to laugh at them. One Punch Man isn't exactly an insightful commentary on the Shonen Genre, nor are it's observations especially original.


So, let's start with the Parody aspect. With most Heroic Fantasy works (And Shonen definitely counts), the Hero's Triumph is usually inevitable, whether it's Goku, Superman, Naruto, James Bond, Joseph Jostar, Vash the Stampede, John McClane, ect, you know that the Hero is going to win in the end. So, What are you watching for?
1) Suspense. Shonen has its roots as children's entertainment. Anybody older than, say, fifteen isn't seriously going to question if the Villain will win. But, the same thing can be said for just about any heroic fantasy work. So, we allow ourselves to be tricked. After all, THIS Villain is a 2000 year old alien warrior who trains by punching suns into black holes, maybe THIS will be the one that defeats our hero! Because that's more fun. The works help you do this, they'll start by demonstrating the awesome power of this individual villain so that you can convince yourself that maybe the Hero won't lose.

2) Mystery. HOW will they win? Sometimes it's pretty obvious, the Hero just hits harder and moves faster than the villain realizes, potentially tapping into hidden energy reserves, or revealing some new technique that they mastered off-camera. Other times there's some mystery to solve, or a weakness to exploit. Something that makes the impossible possible, allowing the Hero to win. James Bond realizes that the disarm code for the death ray is the villain's dead wife's name, Superman tricks mister myxlplyx into saying his name backwards. Just because we know the hero WILL win doesn't mean we know how it happens.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, from Stardust Crusaders onwards, is a great example of this. In both Stardust Crusaders and Diamonds are Unbreakable, the Heroes are usually absurdly powerful direct combatants. The enemy Stands tend to attack indirectly, and the Heroes need to figure out some trick or exploit in the enemy Stand to defeat them, usually using some clever application of one of their Stand's powers.

3) The Pure adrenaline of seeing a well-done action scene. Feeling the heroic fantasy of the villain being struck down. The surge of excitement that comes from hearing about Epic Feats which has motivated storytelling as far back as the epic of Gilgamesh.


So, what does One Punch Man do? Well, it completely deprives you of the first two reasons. While they still go through the motions of hyping up each new foe, they never imply that its a threat to Saitama He doesn't get battered and bruised in a fight. He doesn't need to reveal new techniques, or tap into previously unknown reservoirs of strength and determination. There isn't even much mystery to how he will win. The title of the show tells you how each fight will go. One Punch.

The entire "Hyping up the Villain" bit becomes Buffoonish, but it's no more ridiculous than anything done by other works. The only difference is that, with One-Punch Man, there's no pretense that the villain is actually a threat. The whole thing becomes tinged with dramatic irony. We see this monster going on and on about his unstoppable strength, and we know that he's going to go down after one punch from a bald guy in long pajamas.

If you've ever seen the video of some guy on the street unknowingly picking a fight with a master martial artist, the whole "They're so full of themselves, but so out of their depths" thing.

I'm not going to go out and say that One Punch Man is the first and only work to do this, but it is certainly the most famous.

As for why it works so well? Well, there are two reasons.

1) While One Punch Man subverts Shonen tropes (to the degree that it deliberately deprives the viewer of much of what makes Shonen enjoyable), it ALSO has all the makings of an excellent Shonen series. The action scenes are wonderfully animated, the various heroes and villains are fun and distinct from one another. The scale of events is suitably epic. While you don't get much in the way of suspense, the show delivers awe and adrenaline in spades.

2) The Comedy of Contrasts. The show derives most of it's humor from contrasts. The epic, unstoppable threats, contrasted by the ease with which Saitama defeats them is the first joke. The awesome power Saitama wields, contrasted by his appearance, personality, and lifestyle is another. Saitama's nonchalance in the face of scenery chewing monsters and the massive devastation. At the same time, the thrilling nature of the superhero battles contrasts with the bureaucracy of the Hero Organization itself.

Basically, the contrast between this

And This

One Punch Man works because, while the Core is a solid, if basic parody of Shonen tropes, the core is supported by strong fundamentals. The Action Scenes are fun to watch, the writing is enjoyable, and the jokes are fun the laugh at.

[Knaight]

When that happens though it's played for laughs. No different than, say, Goku one-shotting Recoome.

I get that; I just didn't find it funny. I tend to be picky though - there are large swaths of the nerd canon that I absolutely despise, and mildly disliking OPM is a much smaller deviation from standard than my visceral hatred for Forrest Gump or strong distaste for Ghostbusters. BRC's comment above on loving parody and the necessity of liking the underlying tropes applies here, where I tend not to like a lot of these tropes in the first place and would thus favor parodies a bit more hostile.

[BRC]

I get that; I just didn't find it funny. I tend to be picky though - there are large swaths of the nerd canon that I absolutely despise, and mildly disliking OPM is a much smaller deviation from standard than my visceral hatred for Forrest Gump or strong distaste for Ghostbusters. BRC's comment above on loving parody and the necessity of liking the underlying tropes applies here, where I tend not to like a lot of these tropes in the first place and would thus favor parodies a bit more hostile.

While One Punch Man may be a Parody of Shonen tropes, it is not a Deconstruction, Satire, or Criticism. That's why Scowling Dragon is saying that OPM "Isn't saying anything new about Shonen", because OPM isn't really saying ANYTHING about shonen.

In a "Straight" Shonen, you have a lengthy sequence hyping up the power of the new villain, declaring how they're SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL than the previous villain, and how the hero has NO CHANCE AGAINST THEM! Ending in a fight where the hero wins.

A Satire of Shonen would replace this sequence with one criticizing how predictable and trite the whole "Hype-defeat" cycle is. "Yeah, that's what the last six invaders said, just before the hero remembered that he was fighting to save his friends and punched them into the sun".

One Punch Man treats the Hype-up sequence exactly like a straight Shonen would. The villain arrives, smacks around some secondary characters, declares/demonstrates their awesome power, ect ect. Rather than menacing, the entire thing becomes comedic because we know exactly how it's going to end. Saitama will show up and punch them once. The more the show takes itself seriously before that point, the funnier it is.

But the joke isn't on other Shonen, the joke is on the characters. Whatever villain is declaring their awesome power this week.


You know the old "Bat-God' jokes, concerning Vs Threads. In his comics, it's inevitable that Batman wins, because that's the way the narrative goes. So, Batman can fight aliens and wizards and supercriminals and all sorts of things that should by all rights kick his ass, and he always wins, because he's Batman, and this is a Batman story.

Well, when discussing "Who would Win", people discounted the narrative inevitability of Batman's victories, and calculate his capabilities assuming that the outcome to all those stories was inevitable. As if, instead of a writer sitting down and saying "Alright, in this story, The Joker and an army of goons try to blow up Gotham, and Batman stops them", they punched "Batman vs Joker+Goon Army" into a simulation and made a comic out of the result.

With One Punch Man, the narrative inevitability matches the hypothetical simulation exactly. "Mile Tall, superstrong giant vs Guy who can dodge anything and defeat anything in one punch". "Evil Super Robot vs Guy who can dodge anything and defeat anything in one punch".

But, it doesn't say anything about, say, DBZ or JoJos Bizzare Adventure, because those DON'T feature unstoppable protagonists who can defeat anything in one punch.