Black Panther - AfroFuturism takes on Broadway!!

[Ramza00]

Darth Ultron, this is a moment, but I have no clue what the moment consists of **yet** and this moment will further cause **future moments**.

There is no such thing as an Archimedean Point / Eyes of God / Heaven's Eyes / Aleph

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedean_point

Just because you recognize something is a moment does not mean you understand the moment in its totality. Furthermore some people argue if you can understand the moment in its totality, aka understand the big bang or Aleph the first letter of the hebrew alphabet (which corresponds to a similar 1st letter A in the Greek / Roman Alphabet, and Hebrew and Greek and Roman are languages derived from the Phoencian language which 1st letter is Alep)

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Let me quote Movie Gandalf.



Saruman hyperfocuses on the Grand Powers, he looks at the obvious things. Gandalf / Mithrandir is more zen. He realizes he can't see everything, and instead tries to live in the moment and notice the small things. And even if he can't understand the small things in its entireity he realizes the small things are the true transformative agents of the world.

Black Panther is going to influence things not just in the big stuff, but in the small stuff, ripples upon ripples. It is not always about "super hero movies" or "geek culture movies" or "black movies where you can make money with non white leads." It is these things but it is also so much more than that.

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Note this is not exclusive to Black Panther, any movie that makes lots of money when it was not expected to make that much money will influence the culture itself of making movies. Furthermore outside culture will always influence movie making culture, passion projects, political advocacy, a smart and talented writer with a new idea or at least something that feels original even if its a mosaic of existing ideas.

It is the halflings, the small people who fundamentally change the world for they will go where people do not see, where people with power previously did not look.



Black Panther is a Moses story where Pharaoh heart was soften.

[Darth Ultron]

Black Panther is going to influence things not just in the big stuff, but in the small stuff, ripples upon ripples. It is not always about "super hero movies" or "geek culture movies" or "black movies where you can make money with non white leads." It is these things but it is also so much more than that.

Note this is not exclusive to Black Panther, any movie that makes lots of money when it was not expected to make that much money will influence the culture itself of making movies. Furthermore outside culture will always influence movie making culture, passion projects, political advocacy, a smart and talented writer with a new idea or at least something that feels original even if its a mosaic of existing ideas.

Well, I'd point out Black Panther was expected to make a lot of money. Just being a Marvel Movie gives it a 'fair' amount of money. Plus it is also a linked Marvel movie and even linked to Avengers: Infinity War coming out soon.

And...well...when you look at history, well how much movie influence do you see? Really, it just looks like a mess.

Harry Potter, Star Wars, Transformers, and Super Hero movies..along with general sci-fi and fantasy sure fill the highest money making movies. So if you want to make some money...there is a list to look at.

And, yet, Hollywood will churn out 100's of movies a year that are NOT anything on the list. Like Call Me by Your Name, that only made 34 million. But a movie about a magic using transforming fish robot could have made 200 million easy....

[Jayngfet]

Maybe this is just me talking, but big deals aren't good deals. I'm always extremely wary of major corporations taking up any kind of large cultural influence and find people to be much to accepting of the Walt Disney corporation specifically. Not to mention, it's a bit too early to be celebrating the long term effects of something when those effects haven't manifested yet.

[Leewei]

Finally saw this a couple days ago. It was a good action / superhero movie with some truly great scenes.

Spoiler: Here Be Spoilers

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1) Wakanda itself was gorgeous. The dress, architecture, and technology were pure eye candy.

2) FREAKING WAR RHINOS. Forget sharks with lasers, I want a War Rhino!

3) Shuri was comic gold. "Another white boy to fix!" Bwahahaha!

4) Speaking of which, that second stinger was fun. :)

It also appears to have set the stage further for Infinity War.

Spoiler: Here Be More Spoilers

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1) Wakanda technology looks critically important to world defense.

2) Vibranium itself is something that looks like it may be the product of one of the infinity stones. The Soul Stone would explain how Wakandan royalty could speak to their dead fathers.

There were some things I wanted to see that weren't there, however.

Spoiler: Moar Spoilers

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1) There were practically no references to world-shaking events from Avengers 1 & 2. Racial tensions and inequality are bad; you'd think that this would be overshadowed or hugely mitigated by the threats of alien invasion and world-ending AI.

2) When speaking of the world catching up to them technologically, there was no direct reference to Stark Enterprises / Iron Man. This might be explained by Chitauri technology also being part of the situation.

[Lethologica]

There were some things I wanted to see that weren't there, however.

Spoiler: Moar Spoilers

Show

1) There were practically no references to world-shaking events from Avengers 1 & 2. Racial tensions and inequality are bad; you'd think that this would be overshadowed or hugely mitigated by the threats of alien invasion and world-ending AI.

2) When speaking of the world catching up to them technologically, there was no direct reference to Stark Enterprises / Iron Man. This might be explained by Chitauri technology also being part of the situation.

Another odd thing along the same lines: while it was reasonable and honestly kind of gratifying to see that Cap's faction of the Avengers didn't horn in on Black Panther's story, it's also kind of surprising that bringing them to Wakanda wasn't more emphasized as a source of conflict. Some of them are no less compromised loyalty-wise than Martin Freeman, from the Wakandans' perspective.

[LaZodiac]

Another odd thing along the same lines: while it was reasonable and honestly kind of gratifying to see that Cap's faction of the Avengers didn't horn in on Black Panther's story, it's also kind of surprising that bringing them to Wakanda wasn't more emphasized as a source of conflict. Some of them are no less compromised loyalty-wise than Martin Freeman, from the Wakandans' perspective.

It might be that they only brought them in in secret, or that they only really brought in Bucky while Cap'n friends are all just kinda chilling in Africa or in a sky buss or something.

[Lethologica]

It might be that they only brought them in in secret, or that they only really brought in Bucky while Cap'n friends are all just kinda chilling in Africa or in a sky buss or something.

We see Steve with Bucky in a super-science facility in the after-credits scene of Civil War in close proximity to a giant Black Panther statue, so either those leave Wakanda or Steve entered it.

[Chen]

Cap arrived there with Bucky, but I don't think he's just sticking around chilling. I assume he's going around doing underground superhero things wherever in the world with his team of other wanted superheroes. You know, just in time for Infinity War.

[Ramza00]

Just a reminder, the bulk of Black Panther takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe Timeline during the events of Civil War ( a movie that came out 2 years ago), with Black Panther being a week or so after T'Challa's dad died. Both Civil War and Black Panther are movies for most of the movie there is a tight continuity without months of training and so on.

But the end credit scenes of these marvel movies may be months or years after the event that is the main part of the movie.

Aka between the bulk of Civil War / Black Panther we are going to get a timeskip to bring us up to date with Thor: Ragnarok / Avengers Infinity War. How big of a time skip I do not know personally but it is going to be a year, two years, or three years probably (some serious internet fans have probably already figured this out.)

Welcome to Non-Linear Storytelling, a quite common thing in comics, but it is a hallmark in Epic Poetry (literally the #1 rule of the 10 rules to see if your poem qualifies as "epic poetry" is in medias res which means starting in the middle of things and then during the story tell how you got there with narration, flashbacks, etc.)

[BRC]

Martin Freeman's character was an active-duty CIA Agent. It's his sworn duty to tell the US Government about anything he learns (Such as, say, a hyper-advanced secret nation in Africa).

The Avengers who were brought to Wakanda were, at the time, fugitives from the law, and were a privately-funded superhero group before then. They have no reason to betray Wakanda.

[Lethologica]

Cap arrived there with Bucky, but I don't think he's just sticking around chilling. I assume he's going around doing underground superhero things wherever in the world with his team of other wanted superheroes. You know, just in time for Infinity War.

A fair amount of conversation around Freeman's character was about how letting him leave now that he had come in would also be controversial. If anything, this just strengthens the parallel.

Just a reminder, the bulk of Black Panther takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe Timeline during the events of Civil War ( a movie that came out 2 years ago), with Black Panther being a week or so after T'Challa's dad died. Both Civil War and Black Panther are movies for most of the movie there is a tight continuity without months of training and so on.

But the end credit scenes of these marvel movies may be months or years after the event that is the main part of the movie.

Aka between the bulk of Civil War / Black Panther we are going to get a timeskip to bring us up to date with Thor: Ragnarok / Avengers Infinity War. How big of a time skip I do not know personally but it is going to be a year, two years, or three years probably (some serious internet fans have probably already figured this out.)

Welcome to Non-Linear Storytelling, a quite common thing in comics, but it is a hallmark in Epic Poetry (literally the #1 rule of the 10 rules to see if your poem qualifies as "epic poetry" is in medias res which means starting in the middle of things and then during the story tell how you got there with narration, flashbacks, etc.)

Shuri references Bucky already being in Wakanda during the events of Black Panther: she says that Freeman is "another white boy for me to fix." I suppose I can't prove that this means the post-credits scene happened before Freeman's arrival did, but it seems a strange contrivance to say otherwise.

Martin Freeman's character was an active-duty CIA Agent. It's his sworn duty to tell the US Government about anything he learns (Such as, say, a hyper-advanced secret nation in Africa).

The Avengers who were brought to Wakanda were, at the time, fugitives from the law, and were a privately-funded superhero group before then. They have no reason to betray Wakanda.

The Avengers Initiative may have brought together a bunch of private individuals--plus, er, a former Soviet super-spy and former US special agent and former US super-soldier and former US regular soldier. I can't remember how many of these are supposed to be on Team Cap by the end of the movie, though I am of course ignoring current US regular soldier War Machine since he's definitely never in Wakanda. Anyway...the Avengers may even have used private funding. But it was no means a private initiative (in the sense of 'not government-run'). That's why Nick Fury exists. And Agent Coulson, and that shadow council, and all the rest. The Avengers might be best analogized to a bunch of private military contractors--not exactly government employees, but hardly apolitical private enterprise.

Someone like W'Kabi or Okoye would see Team Cap as an information security threat regardless of their professed trustworthiness, especially if they want freedom of movement as some have suggested, and as fugitives they also bring the risk of additional scrutiny from major world governments.

Again, I'm not mad that Black Panther chose to tell a self-contained story. I think it was a good decision. But it does require resorting to narrative convenience to some extent.

[BRC]

The Avengers Initiative may have brought together a bunch of private individuals--plus, er, a former Soviet super-spy and former US special agent and former US super-soldier and former US regular soldier. I can't remember how many of these are supposed to be on Team Cap by the end of the movie, though I am of course ignoring current US regular soldier War Machine since he's definitely never in Wakanda. Anyway...the Avengers may even have used private funding. But it was no means a private initiative (in the sense of 'not government-run'). That's why Nick Fury exists. And Agent Coulson, and that shadow council, and all the rest. The Avengers might be best analogized to a bunch of private military contractors--not exactly government employees, but hardly apolitical private enterprise.

Someone like W'Kabi or Okoye would see Team Cap as an information security threat regardless of their professed trustworthiness, especially if they want freedom of movement as some have suggested, and as fugitives they also bring the risk of additional scrutiny from major world governments.

Again, I'm not mad that Black Panther chose to tell a self-contained story. I think it was a good decision. But it does require resorting to narrative convenience to some extent.

By the time of Civil War, The Avengers seemed to be funded by Tony Stark. SHIELD was gone by that point, and they had no official oversight (hence the Sokovia Accords).

W'Kabi or Okoye very much might have considered Team Cap to be security threats, but not to the degree that it caused T'Challa any trouble as-of Black Panther.

[Lethologica]

By the time of Civil War, The Avengers seemed to be funded by Tony Stark. SHIELD was gone by that point, and they had no official oversight (hence the Sokovia Accords).

W'Kabi or Okoye very much might have considered Team Cap to be security threats, but not to the degree that it caused T'Challa any trouble as-of Black Panther.

Yes, clearly it didn't cause T'Challa any trouble. And my argument is precisely that that's a narrative convenience which stands up poorly to scrutiny, given how comparable threats are treated in the movie. We can't take some Oakland kid aka the king's nephew home with us, it might reveal Wakanda. We can't bring this half-dead American spy home with us, it might reveal Wakanda. Bringing these extremely high-profile superpowered fugitives from major world powers, who used to fight and spy for said powers and then represented America in high-profile high-controversy international incidents, home with us? Not worth a mention by the head of security? Or the head of special forces? Not a tool for the nation's top spy to argue her case that it's more important to do the right thing than to keep Wakanda secret? The unspoken relevancies are endless.

[BRC]

Yes, clearly it didn't cause T'Challa any trouble. And my argument is precisely that that's a narrative convenience which stands up poorly to scrutiny, given how comparable threats are treated in the movie. We can't take some Oakland kid aka the king's nephew home with us, it might reveal Wakanda. We can't bring this half-dead American spy home with us, it might reveal Wakanda. Bringing these extremely high-profile superpowered fugitives from major world powers, who used to fight and spy for said powers and then represented America in high-profile high-controversy international incidents, home with us? Not worth a mention by the head of security? Or the head of special forces? Not a tool for the nation's top spy to argue her case that it's more important to do the right thing than to keep Wakanda secret? The unspoken relevancies are endless.

I've actually got a different theory about Erik not being brought back, but let's start with Ross.


The decision to bring Ross back ruffled some feathers, but was settled with a conversation. When they got back, Shuri cracked a joke, rather than remarking on the seriousness of T'Challa's decision.

So, while bringing Ross home was a risk, it was one that T'Challa was fully qualified to make. Okoye probably criticized it, but beyond that.


Erik is a different story. I don't think Erik being left in Oakland was a matter of Security.


A Prince of the royal family had turned against Wakanda, aiding an enemy in carrying out the worst attack in living memory. T'Chaka arrived in Oakland intending to bring his brother back for judgement, and ended up killing him to save a life.


Legally, T'Chaka could have brought Erik back with him and explained everything. "My Brother worked with Klaw, I went to bring him back, but he fought back and I was forced to kill him. His death is a tragedy, this is his Son".

BUT, that would mean dragging his brother's betrayal, and his own fratricide, out into the light, which T'Chaka did not want to do.
Maybe it was an emotional decision, T'Chaka just wanted to pretend that his brother had just "Disappeared". Maybe it was political one, where admitting his brother's treason and subsequent death would have severe consequences back in Wakanda. We don't know, but I don't think Security was the reason to leave Erik behind.


Edit: I've got a headcanon that T'Chaka deliberately failed to find Klaw all those years for roughly the same reason.

The Avengers were able to track down Klaw in hours, so it doesn't make sense that Wakanda couldn't do it in 30 years.

However, if he was brought back to Wakanda for Trial, Klaw would say where he got his inside information, and the Prince's betrayal would become known. T'Chaka was too honorable to order Klaw's Assassination, but he couldn't risk Klaw being brought before the Council. So, he just "Failed" to Find Klaw for 30 years.

[Ramza00]

Shuri references Bucky already being in Wakanda during the events of Black Panther: she says that Freeman is "another white boy for me to fix." I suppose I can't prove that this means the post-credits scene happened before Freeman's arrival did, but it seems a strange contrivance to say otherwise.

So at the end of Civil War, we have Iron Man, Captain America, and Winter Solider / having their three man fight as well as Zemo attempting to commit suicide and failing and T'Challa choosing to give Zemo over to the authorities that are not Wakanda. This is kind of the end of the "epoch" of the linear storytelling of Civil War.

We then see time skips and during the time skips which may be days, weeks, months, years we see things at the end of Civil War. Stuff like Iron Man and Captain America reaching a detente / new friendship, Bucky now being in Wakanda, Captain America freeing some of the Avengers from the Raft, Spiderman testing a toy that Iron Man gave him, and so on. These are non linear story elements and even though we feel they are soon after Civil War we have no clue where they appear on the timeline.

That said Black Panther starts up very soon after the Iron Man / Captain America / Winter Solider fight which is very soon after T'Challa losing his dad in the bomb. We are talking a time period of weeks.

Now in Black Panther we learn that one of those scenes shown in the non linear storytelling happened soon after. This event is Bucky Barnes was given to Wakkanda and we now know that Shuri was involved with the deprogramming of Winter Solider / Bucky ( “Great! Another broken white boy for us to fix!” ) We know during the movie Black Panther with the Killmonger Coup that Bucky was still not fixed, but after the coup ends we are once again in non linear storytelling when we see some of the ending scenes such as 1) T'Challa showing his airship in the middle of Oregon to the kids at the same place that Killmonger lived and now there is going to be an outreach. 2) T'Challa reveals Wakanda to the world at a UN building that is rebuilt and similar to the one his father died in. 3) Bucky Barnes wakes up in Wakanda and he is no longer the winter solider... and so on. Once again we are in non linear storytelling the coupling mechanisms between various marvel movies.

[Lethologica]

The decision to bring Ross back ruffled some feathers, but was settled with a conversation. When they got back, Shuri cracked a joke, rather than remarking on the seriousness of T'Challa's decision.

So, while bringing Ross home was a risk, it was one that T'Challa was fully qualified to make. Okoye probably criticized it, but beyond that.

Shuri cracks jokes about everything--that's not a good metric. Okoye definitely criticized it, and her criticisms were correct (from the perspective of Freeman threatening Wakanda's secrecy), and T'Challa recognized the serious problem he was creating even though he decided to do the right thing in the moment anyway. The course of action was settled with that conversation because T'Challa is the king, but the conflict was not. And yes, beyond that, it amplified the crack in W'Kabi's trust of T'Challa, which led W'Kabi to take Erik seriously. This is another thing explicitly conveyed through dialogue when W'Kabi confronts T'Challa after the Klaue mission.

Apart from our Q/comic relief character, the major characters took Freeman's presence as a serious risk and continuing point of conflict. This is laid out extremely clearly in the movie.

Erik is a different story. I don't think Erik being left in Oakland was a matter of Security.

I like this theory and I largely agree with it as an underlying cause. But at the most literal level, the explanation presented in the movie is the idea that bringing Erik home would have been a risk to Wakanda's secrecy. The truth of one layer does not invalidate the truth of another. When T'Challa rails against the policy of secrecy that led to such an abominable decision, he is also condemning his father for the personal secrecy that led to said decision (and subsequent concealment of the decision from T'Challa). But also is not instead.

So at the end of Civil War, we have Iron Man, Captain America, and Winter Solider / having their three man fight as well as Zemo attempting to commit suicide and failing and T'Challa choosing to give Zemo over to the authorities that are not Wakanda. This is kind of the end of the "epoch" of the linear storytelling of Civil War.

We then see time skips and during the time skips which may be days, weeks, months, years we see things at the end of Civil War. Stuff like Iron Man and Captain America reaching a detente / new friendship, Bucky now being in Wakanda, Captain America freeing some of the Avengers from the Raft, Spiderman testing a toy that Iron Man gave him, and so on. These are non linear story elements and even though we feel they are soon after Civil War we have no clue where they appear on the timeline.

That said Black Panther starts up very soon after the Iron Man / Captain America / Winter Solider fight which is very soon after T'Challa losing his dad in the bomb. We are talking a time period of weeks.

Now in Black Panther we learn that one of those scenes shown in the non linear storytelling happened soon after. This event is Bucky Barnes was given to Wakkanda and we now know that Shuri was involved with the deprogramming of Winter Solider / Bucky ( “Great! Another broken white boy for us to fix!” ) We know during the movie Black Panther with the Killmonger Coup that Bucky was still not fixed, but after the coup ends we are once again in non linear storytelling when we see some of the ending scenes such as 1) T'Challa showing his airship in the middle of Oregon to the kids at the same place that Killmonger lived and now there is going to be an outreach. 2) T'Challa reveals Wakanda to the world at a UN building that is rebuilt and similar to the one his father died in. 3) Bucky Barnes wakes up in Wakanda and he is no longer the winter solider... and so on. Once again we are in non linear storytelling the coupling mechanisms between various marvel movies.

Nonlinear storytelling isn't the issue here, and recounting a lot of the irrelevant nonlinear scenes is nothing but a distraction. 'Bucky now being in Wakanda' and 'Captain America now being in Wakanda' are shown in the same scene--there is no nonlinearity between them. We are shown in Black Panther that 'Bucky now being in Wakanda' happened before Freeman was shot. Like I said, it is not impossible that this scene is from well after Bucky actually got to Wakanda, such that Steve only gets to Wakanda long after the events of Black Panther, but it's an unlikely contrivance (especially considering that Steve is asking Bucky about his resolution to freeze himself for treatment, which presumably would happen at or near the beginning of the treatment process).

[Ramza00]

Nonlinear storytelling isn't the issue here, and recounting a lot of the irrelevant nonlinear scenes is nothing but a distraction. 'Bucky now being in Wakanda' and 'Captain America now being in Wakanda' are shown in the same scene--there is no nonlinearity between them. We are shown in Black Panther that 'Bucky now being in Wakanda' happened before Freeman was shot. Like I said, it is not impossible that this scene is from well after Bucky actually got to Wakanda, such that Steve only gets to Wakanda long after the events of Black Panther, but it's an unlikely contrivance (especially considering that Steve is asking Bucky about his resolution to freeze himself for treatment, which presumably would happen at or near the beginning of the treatment process).

People are asking what Captain America has been doing, but need I remind you that it is likely be 2 years or so between Civil War and Infinity War inside the marvel cinematic timeline. Think of it like Gandalf visiting Frodo in the Fellowship of the Ring, when Gandalf was wanting to confirm this is the one ring. Well in the Book and Movies this was a period of 17 years after Bilbo leaving the Shire and thus Frodo having the ring (and it was this birthday party that started Gandalf investigating) and Gandalf finally telling Frodo 17 years in Aprillater this is the one ring, but let me do some more research followed by Frodo leaving the Shire in September, and the end of the Fellowship of the Ring occurs on Feb 26th.

Dropping off the Winter Solider, only to return months or years later is Captain America pulling something similar to Gandalf's 17 years. There are lots of adventures during that time such as Gandalf and Aragon catching Gollum / Smeagol, much like Captain America rescuing the people from that prison.

[Lethologica]

People are asking what Captain America has been doing, but need I remind you that it is likely be 2 years or so between Civil War and Infinity War inside the marvel cinematic timeline. Think of it like Gandalf visiting Frodo in the Fellowship of the Ring, when Gandalf was wanting to confirm this is the one ring. Well in the Book and Movies this was a period of 17 years after Bilbo leaving the Shire and thus Frodo having the ring (and it was this birthday party that started Gandalf investigating) and Gandalf finally telling Frodo 17 years in Aprillater this is the one ring, but let me do some more research followed by Frodo leaving the Shire in September, and the end of the Fellowship of the Ring occurs on Feb 26th.

Dropping off the Winter Solider, only to return months or years later is Captain America pulling something similar to Gandalf's 17 years. There are lots of adventures during that time such as Gandalf and Aragon catching Gollum / Smeagol, much like Captain America rescuing the people from that prison.

Are you...are you trying to explain nonlinear storytelling to me? Are you really being that patronizing right now. I am of the opinion that this scene belongs in a particular portion of the timeline. That is not the same as not comprehending nonlinear storytelling.

Strip away the condescension, and all you're doing is making the bald assertion that the movie is as you say it is, without any citation of information within the movie to support your point except the mere existence of the time gap between movies. This is the most tepid possible evidence. If this is months or years later, why is Bucky only beginning his freezing process and not even beginning treatment? If this is months or years later, why is Cap only now bringing up the possible ramifications of bringing Bucky to Wakanda? The scene makes less sense months or years later than it does very near to the end of Civil War.

Not that it matters, because your own hypothesis raises the exact same questions I've been asking anyway. My questions were about the implications of Cap coming to Wakanda immediately following the events of Civil War, and possibly leaving it. Your hypothesis is that he came to Wakanda briefly and then left, immediately following the events of Civil War. Whether or not the post-credits scene is the exact scene depicting that first arrival and departure is completely irrelevant. So all this condescension and unsupported assertion amounts to nothing.

I don't know who "people" are that have been asking what Captain America has been doing for 2 years, but I'm not one of them, so I don't know why that's your point of entry to this comment. I am specifically talking about a thing we know Captain America has done and suggesting that we have good reason to think we know approximately when he did it. Maybe this is the source of the problem--you might think I'm arguing something other than what I'm arguing. I feel like I was pretty clear in my previous comments, though.

[Jayngfet]

I think the obvious question is why if you have a dude who isn't supposed to be in the know but needs medical treatment, why are you taking him right to your classified lab with all the doors unlocked. If he was in that one room you could maybe play it off as a one off thing. But if he literally sees a mountain of the stuff he was willing to kill for a fist full of, that's a bigger problem.

[Lord Joeltion]

Yes, clearly it didn't cause T'Challa any trouble. And my argument is precisely that that's a narrative convenience which stands up poorly to scrutiny, given how comparable threats are treated in the movie. We can't take some Oakland kid aka the king's nephew home with us, it might reveal Wakanda. We can't bring this half-dead American spy home with us, it might reveal Wakanda. Bringing these extremely high-profile superpowered fugitives from major world powers, who used to fight and spy for said powers and then represented America in high-profile high-controversy international incidents, home with us? Not worth a mention by the head of security? Or the head of special forces? Not a tool for the nation's top spy to argue her case that it's more important to do the right thing than to keep Wakanda secret? The unspoken relevancies are endless.

T'Chala doesn't need to reveal anyone in the council that he invited some guests he trusts for reasons (and his reasons are quite sounding: they both helped to solve the Regicide crime). He didn't need to consult anyone about bringing the English spy either. Also, given that we have seen Bucky in a secluded place from the main city, it's safe to assume they only spent time at the secret lab just the necessary time to "fix" the white boy and nothing more. But the three of them are still technically non-citizens; and as such, it would be easy to aprehend them and send them to Wakandan Jail it needed.

Killmonger was a different problem because he presented himself, uninvited; and also happened to be an actual citizen of Wakanda. He had a lot more autonomy of his own; specially one he is revealed to have royal blood. He had all the means he needed to reveal Wakanda tro the world, even if he hadn't beaten T'Chala at ceremonial combat. He could gather a faction of Wakandan people (something he is hinted to partially accomplished before presenting himself to the Council) and spawn a revolution withing the nation. Those threats are beyond any foreign threat to Wakanda's secrecy status; and are more urgent to attend.

There's also the fact that for years; there were foreigners who knew about Wakanda and "revealed" the secret to Western world; yet Wakanda remained an urban legend at worst. So I don't see why either Team Cap or Bilbo would be regarded as threats on the same level as Killmonger. Killmonger's very existence jeopardized the trust people could have in the Black Panther, for he was a proof of something more fishy than simply giving temporary asylum to those who helped avenge the death of the Wakandan king.

[Darth Ultron]

There were some things I wanted to see that weren't there, however.

Spoiler: Things

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I'm sure they wanted to keep the Focus on the Black Panther.

And the Writer did think he was ''given freedom to make a black movie'', so he did that.

And Disney was all like ''eh, just make a Black Panther movie and we will ok it''.

Martin Freeman's character was an active-duty CIA Agent. It's his sworn duty to tell the US Government about anything he learns (Such as, say, a hyper-advanced secret nation in Africa)

I don't think Wandaka is ''secret'' from like the Governments of the world, or more accurately the 'secret' parts of the governments of the world. It's just the common folk that are clueless.

[Lethologica]

T'Chala doesn't need to reveal anyone in the council that he invited some guests he trusts for reasons (and his reasons are quite sounding: they both helped to solve the Regicide crime). He didn't need to consult anyone about bringing the English spy either. Also, given that we have seen Bucky in a secluded place from the main city, it's safe to assume they only spent time at the secret lab just the necessary time to "fix" the white boy and nothing more. But the three of them are still technically non-citizens; and as such, it would be easy to aprehend them and send them to Wakandan Jail it needed.

Killmonger was a different problem because he presented himself, uninvited; and also happened to be an actual citizen of Wakanda. He had a lot more autonomy of his own; specially one he is revealed to have royal blood. He had all the means he needed to reveal Wakanda tro the world, even if he hadn't beaten T'Chala at ceremonial combat. He could gather a faction of Wakandan people (something he is hinted to partially accomplished before presenting himself to the Council) and spawn a revolution withing the nation. Those threats are beyond any foreign threat to Wakanda's secrecy status; and are more urgent to attend.

There's also the fact that for years; there were foreigners who knew about Wakanda and "revealed" the secret to Western world; yet Wakanda remained an urban legend at worst. So I don't see why either Team Cap or Bilbo would be regarded as threats on the same level as Killmonger. Killmonger's very existence jeopardized the trust people could have in the Black Panther, for he was a proof of something more fishy than simply giving temporary asylum to those who helped avenge the death of the Wakandan king.

Okay, so there's two weird things about this reply. (Besides the fact that Everett Ross is American. Maybe I'm to blame for using the actor's name. Guess I'll fix that.)

First, yes, Killmonger's arrival in Wakanda is different from Bucky's, Cap's, or Ross', and he is obviously a greater threat at that point. But that isn't the decision I was talking about, which I why I called Erik 'some Oakland kid' instead of 'the stone-cold killer and revolutionary'. I'm referring to the decision to leave Erik alone in Oakland as an orphan boy, which has a very different threat dynamic. So the argument you're making for differentiating adult Killmonger from Ross and Team Cap is rather misaimed.

Second, your argument treats Ross as an entirely comparable threat to Team Cap. This is exactly what I have argued previously as a basis for my points.

So while you appear to be trying to disagree with me, as far as I can tell, much of your comment is instead misreading me.

However, let's address some issues of substance with your position:

The problems presented by Ross are not dependent on informing the council of his presence (though W'Kabi clearly notices and would inform the other council members if it suited him). Ross is an agent of a foreign government who knows Wakanda has him in their custody. T'Challa can give up Ross and their secrecy, or keep Ross and risk their secrecy anyway by coming into conflict with the US government. Consultation is not the problem here--bringing Ross to Wakanda in the first place is the problem. This is all directly explained via dialogue in the movie.

Team Cap (or whichever members end up in Wakanda at some point) doesn't present the exact same threat as Ross, because they are not current agents of a foreign government and no one knows where they are. But they have already proven the difficulty of confinement as a permanent solution, and T'Challa knows that. He also knows they have very powerful friends (even if they're on the outs for now) who could be difficult to hide from, difficult to placate, and difficult to fight. So confinement is an uncertain proposition, and if it fails a bad outcome is basically certain. T'Challa instead trusts the Avengers not to divulge Wakanda's secrets, which is all well and good, but he is not the only person who knows they're there--no one in T'Challa's inner circle reacts with surprise to Shuri's comment about Ross not being the first white boy T'Challa has brought back, for example. More cautious voices in Wakanda would raise the same objections that were raised for Ross.

The existence of prior people who have tried to break Wakanda's veil of secrecy is not a strong argument that Ross and Team Cap are not significant problems. First, plainly those people can pose a serious issue for Wakanda, as shown in the interrogation scene where Klaue reveals information about Wakanda to Ross. All it takes is a context where they are given serious attention by serious people. Second, Ross and Team Cap have a lot of built-up credibility with people who count in a way people like Klaue do not. So the extrapolation does not hold.

I find all this kind of bizarre, to be honest. I thought I was making a pretty mild and uncontroversial comment about how Team Cap's presence in the movie is downplayed (and not wrongly, from a moviemaking perspective), even though the fact of their presence would logically provoke some of the same issues that show up in the movie. But this seems to have led to quite a bit of controversy, and in particular, controversy deriving from people misremembering the movie, misreading my comments, making uncharitable assumptions about my knowledge of film, or presenting highly speculative and poorly justified mechanisms for preserving consistency on this point. I don't even think consistency here is important; it's just something I noticed. So the ensuing debate has been rather surprising.

[Legato Endless]

I don't think Wandaka is ''secret'' from like the Governments of the world, or more accurately the 'secret' parts of the governments of the world. It's just the common folk that are clueless.

Honestly that would raise more questions than it answers. First, that makes Freeman being there a lot less of a big deal. Then the only real damage is keeping him from seeing their technical capabilities, but the way they act is that him knowing anything is tantamount to a break in the facade. If that were the case, his bosses would implicitly order him to be quiet about it and just debrief him. Unless somehow Wakanda is the only major player in the global stage who isn't aware the secret's out, which is extremely unlikely.

Second, it raises some odd issues of why other actors have left Wakanda completely alone. Maybe the World Security Council decides to play the long game with Wakandan Soverignty, but there's no way Hydra does. And considering they'd infiltrated the highest intelligence parts of the US, the Council, and Shield, along with other governments, they'd certainly be in on the secret.

It also plays decidedly against the implications with the stinger where T'Challa talks to the UN.

[Darth Ultron]

Honestly that would raise more questions than it answers.

THIS is the big problem with the shared world non linear storytelling: it makes no sense. You should just sit back and enjoy the story and not think about it.

In the MCU Wandaka gets it's tech....um...from Vabrainum. Except that does not exactly make sense as how does a metal=tech? How does Vabrainum give Wandaka computers, for example? That is the sort of thing they would need to import. The same thing with the fighter drones and a lot of the other tech we see.

So...somehow....Wandaka imports massive amounts of all sorts of high tech stuff, and weapons, but the whole world does not notice? But then where are they getting all that stuff from?

It gets a bit hard to say Wandaka has secret factories for everything...because that is a lot of factories.

So with all that, the other 'big' governments would know and be in on it.

But sure, maybe Hydra did know.....but, If I remember Agents of Shield season one...the secret base ''The Treehouse'' in Africa, did NOT fall to Hydra forces...humm, wonder why?

In the Comics Wandanka has the 'lost' knowledge of the Library of Alexandrina(in one version) and also trades sells Vibrainum with the world(most versions).

[Prime32]

THIS is the big problem with the shared world non linear storytelling: it makes no sense. You should just sit back and enjoy the story and not think about it.

In the MCU Wandaka gets it's tech....um...from Vabrainum. Except that does not exactly make sense as how does a metal=tech? How does Vabrainum give Wandaka computers, for example? That is the sort of thing they would need to import. The same thing with the fighter drones and a lot of the other tech we see.

So...somehow....Wandaka imports massive amounts of all sorts of high tech stuff, and weapons, but the whole world does not notice? But then where are they getting all that stuff from?

It gets a bit hard to say Wandaka has secret factories for everything...because that is a lot of factories.

So with all that, the other 'big' governments would know and be in on it.

But sure, maybe Hydra did know.....but, If I remember Agents of Shield season one...the secret base ''The Treehouse'' in Africa, did NOT fall to Hydra forces...humm, wonder why?

In the Comics Wandanka has the 'lost' knowledge of the Library of Alexandrina(in one version) and also trades sells Vibrainum with the world(most versions).

When it was introduced, Wakanda did import most of its tech, using funds that T'challa raised by lifting the ban on selling vibranium to outsiders. T'challa also used this money to travel around the world and train himself into a super-scientist, which he used to create some technologies that the rest of the world didn't have (though it's unclear if they're vibranium-based or whether he can mass-produce them). The world didn't pay them much attention because it was the 60s and they'd only been at this for about 10 years.

[Mechalich]

Second, it raises some odd issues of why other actors have left Wakanda completely alone. Maybe the World Security Council decides to play the long game with Wakandan Soverignty, but there's no way Hydra does. And considering they'd infiltrated the highest intelligence parts of the US, the Council, and Shield, along with other governments, they'd certainly be in on the secret.

It also plays decidedly against the implications with the stinger where T'Challa talks to the UN.

There's a weird and complex interplay between conspiracies in Marvel (and in fact in most long-running comic book universes) that applies here and in the MCU it is all made much more complicated by the destruction of SHIELD in Winter Soldier.

The central idea is that, prior to Winter Soldier there was an entire level of information known only to SHIELD and its partners; essentially a classification: Shield Secret. Only members of various governments who were co-opted to SHIELD were aware of this data, and of course this included some Hydra members that were inside SHIELD and the relevant governments. This system had apparently persisted for decades. In this scenario, Hydra goes along with SHIELD's control of information and advanced technology because the intent is that when they make their move they will be the only people on the planet in control of all the good stuff. So in this scenario, if Cap, Black Widow, and Falcon fail in Winter Solider then Wakanda is on the short list to get flattened by Hydra in the first wave of global restructuring (and many of the people on the initial target list are the hidden Wakandan soldiers scattered throughout major urban areas mentioned in Black Panther).

When SHIELD falls the ripple effects are massive. Hydra is forced into the open - because they can no longer use SHIELD resources to conceal themselves and SHIELD funding to support their assets - and the Avengers subsequently destroy a huge percentage of HYDRA's global assets. That's what the opening sequence of Age of Ultron reveals. This also massively changes the global intelligence ecosystem. There is no longer a Shield Secret level of control. Pre-Winter Soldier if Agent Ross files a report about Wakanda it disappears an no one ever reads it. Post-Winter Soldier it moves through channels normally. Even more importantly, the entire top level of control - which used to be held by SHIELD/HYDRA - has been eliminated and the world's governments are actually in control instead of a bunch of puppets. This is also shown in Age of Ultron when the Sokovia accords give authority to the UN, which in a universe where SHIELD still mattered would have been a rather ridiculous joke.

Essentially, Winter Soldier totally rewrote the power structure of the MCU by eliminating the puppet masters (mostly, they still get to play around on TV) and actually reducing the presence of super-advanced technology globally in the process. This actually makes massively increases Wakanda's relative power in the aftermath. T'Chaka's isolationism makes a lot more sense when you consider he was used to ruling in a world full of Helicarriers and other SHIELD insanity. And there's a point to be made that Wakanda's technological advantage is ephemeral. If Tony Stark is about to flood the world with Arc Reactors (he deployed like fifty of them in Iron Man 3 and just gave one to Peter Parker) then even with Wakanda co-opting technological advancements as they go (honestly, how much of the new Black Panther suit tech did Shuri copy from Stark Industries? the deploy suit from container trick was used in Iron Man 2 as well) then have maybe a ten year window.

Not that any of that matters, because Thanos.

[Lord Joeltion]

Okay, so there's two weird things about this reply. (Besides the fact that Everett Ross is American. Maybe I'm to blame for using the actor's name. Guess I'll fix that.)

Well, tbh, it's hard for me to forget he isn't playing Watson anymore. Oops?

First, yes, Killmonger's arrival in Wakanda is different from Bucky's, Cap's, or Ross', and he is obviously a greater threat at that point. But that isn't the decision I was talking about, which I why I called Erik 'some Oakland kid' instead of 'the stone-cold killer and revolutionary'. I'm referring to the decision to leave Erik alone in Oakland as an orphan boy, which has a very different threat dynamic. So the argument you're making for differentiating adult Killmonger from Ross and Team Cap is rather misaimed.

My bad then. But I still stick to my horses; not taking the kid back to Wakanda was a decision different from the one related to allowing Team Cap refugees. My impression of the movie was that King T'Chaka didn't bring the kid back not for security reasons but out of guilt. It's obvious he didn't know (he could imagine the possibility, but probably discarded it) that the kid had the means to get any knowledge on Wakanda, much less that he could have proven his Wakandan heritage in the future. So, my interpretation of the scene was that the king preferred to keep it's secret safe from his people; and the best way would be to bury the issue, and leave the corpse of his brother and his orphaned child on America soil, where no Wakandan would dare search. Sure, leaving Erik was a **** move, but then again, it follows the same reasoning that made T'Chaka forbit the priest from ever revealing about the kid or his rbother's betrayal.

The problems presented by Ross are not dependent on informing the council of his presence (though W'Kabi clearly notices and would inform the other council members if it suited him). Ross is an agent of a foreign government who knows Wakanda has him in their custody. T'Challa can give up Ross and their secrecy, or keep Ross and risk their secrecy anyway by coming into conflict with the US government. Consultation is not the problem here--bringing Ross to Wakanda in the first place is the problem. This is all directly explained via dialogue in the movie.

Sure, he is a risk, I grant you that. That doesn't mean that's how T'Challa was depicting the situation. Since he is the one taking all the decisions, I don't see why it's relevant to study it from an objective PoW. The reasons or the risks involving Ross only need to make sense to him; since he is the one making all the decisions. Any mistake on his part, falls on his head; but that doesn't make his train of thought less logical or that it breaks/forces the narrative. Unless that was not at all what you meant originally?

Team Cap (or whichever members end up in Wakanda at some point) doesn't present the exact same threat as Ross, because they are not current agents of a foreign government and no one knows where they are. But they have already proven the difficulty of confinement as a permanent solution, and T'Challa knows that. He also knows they have very powerful friends (even if they're on the outs for now) who could be difficult to hide from, difficult to placate, and difficult to fight. So confinement is an uncertain proposition, and if it fails a bad outcome is basically certain. T'Challa instead trusts the Avengers not to divulge Wakanda's secrets, which is all well and good, but he is not the only person who knows they're there--no one in T'Challa's inner circle reacts with surprise to Shuri's comment about Ross not being the first white boy T'Challa has brought back, for example. More cautious voices in Wakanda would raise the same objections that were raised for Ross.

I see no reason why people would overreact to Shuri's comments. IIRC, that scene only involved T'Challa's trusted allies; and probably the people who work with Shuri. People who probably already knew about previous security compromises. Don't forget he is also king, and even if he needed to keep his political allies more or less on his side, my take on Wakandan politics was that his word was ultimate and irrefutable (like regular monarchy, more or less).

The existence of prior people who have tried to break Wakanda's veil of secrecy is not a strong argument that Ross and Team Cap are not significant problems. First, plainly those people can pose a serious issue for Wakanda, as shown in the interrogation scene where Klaue reveals information about Wakanda to Ross. All it takes is a context where they are given serious attention by serious people. Second, Ross and Team Cap have a lot of built-up credibility with people who count in a way people like Klaue do not. So the extrapolation does not hold.

It was not in the best of Klaue's interest to tip any government about Wakanda. That was just a desperate move from his part. He is a wanted criminal, just as much as Team Cap is. Even if he wanted to share it with his criminal peers; he would have to share any prize with the bigger fish, again, not in his best interests. Those are comparable, only Ross is a completely different case. Just because Klause isn't trustworthy doesn't mean he is less predictable. It's obviously convenient, but IMHO, the convinient part isn't that Klause never spread the secret in the appropiate manner; rather that he was written in the specific way where never spreading the secret makes sense for him.

-he works alone
-he's a most wanted criminal
-he's greedy
-etc.

I think it fits the narrative more than you give it credit for; but again, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, just to support a different take of the same situation.

Spoiler

Show

I find all this kind of bizarre, to be honest. I thought I was making a pretty mild and uncontroversial comment about how Team Cap's presence in the movie is downplayed (and not wrongly, from a moviemaking perspective), even though the fact of their presence would logically provoke some of the same issues that show up in the movie. But this seems to have led to quite a bit of controversy, and in particular, controversy deriving from people misremembering the movie, misreading my comments, making uncharitable assumptions about my knowledge of film, or presenting highly speculative and poorly justified mechanisms for preserving consistency on this point. I don't even think consistency here is important; it's just something I noticed. So the ensuing debate has been rather surprising.

We're the internet. What did you expect?

[Lethologica]

My bad then. But I still stick to my horses; not taking the kid back to Wakanda was a decision different from the one related to allowing Team Cap refugees. My impression of the movie was that King T'Chaka didn't bring the kid back not for security reasons but out of guilt. It's obvious he didn't know (he could imagine the possibility, but probably discarded it) that the kid had the means to get any knowledge on Wakanda, much less that he could have proven his Wakandan heritage in the future. So, my interpretation of the scene was that the king preferred to keep it's secret safe from his people; and the best way would be to bury the issue, and leave the corpse of his brother and his orphaned child on America soil, where no Wakandan would dare search. Sure, leaving Erik was a **** move, but then again, it follows the same reasoning that made T'Chaka forbit the priest from ever revealing about the kid or his rbother's betrayal.

And I'll say what I said the last time someone made this exact comment:

"I like this theory and I largely agree with it as an underlying cause. But at the most literal level, the explanation presented in the movie is the idea that bringing Erik home would have been a risk to Wakanda's secrecy. The truth of one layer does not invalidate the truth of another. When T'Challa rails against the policy of secrecy that led to such an abominable decision, he is also condemning his father for the personal secrecy that led to said decision (and subsequent concealment of the decision from T'Challa). But also is not instead."

Sure, he is a risk, I grant you that. That doesn't mean that's how T'Challa was depicting the situation. Since he is the one taking all the decisions, I don't see why it's relevant to study it from an objective PoW. The reasons or the risks involving Ross only need to make sense to him; since he is the one making all the decisions. Any mistake on his part, falls on his head; but that doesn't make his train of thought less logical or that it breaks/forces the narrative. Unless that was not at all what you meant originally?

No, the fact that I see the situation in these terms doesn't mean T'Challa does. But the fact that the movie explicitly spells out the issue in those terms through dialogue with Nakia and Okoye, and that T'Challa acknowledges said issue in those terms, means that he does see it in those terms. This is the fourth time I've pointed out that the movie was very direct on these points, and I have to wonder why that isn't getting through to anyone.

On the other hand, what I did not say was that this breaks the narrative in any way. It is in fact critical to the narrative's proper operation that these things happened and these issues were raised. The only point on which I am criticizing the narrative here is that similar issues apply to Team Cap but were never raised (and I reiterate that I consider this a good storytelling decision).

I see no reason why people would overreact to Shuri's comments. IIRC, that scene only involved T'Challa's trusted allies; and probably the people who work with Shuri. People who probably already knew about previous security compromises. Don't forget he is also king, and even if he needed to keep his political allies more or less on his side, my take on Wakandan politics was that his word was ultimate and irrefutable (like regular monarchy, more or less).

T'Challa's trusted allies might react (not overreact, which is not what I said) if they didn't know T'Challa had brought Bucky in previously. I said that solely to demonstrate that these people knew about Bucky--since you agree they already knew about Bucky, I suppose this is unnecessary for you, but I find it helpful to cover all the bases.

And yes, this is T'Challa's inner circle, i.e. the exact same people who explicitly laid out the issues regarding Ross (modulo the alienation of W'Kabi), and therefore a sufficient set of people to bring up the issues regarding Team Cap. That's exactly the set of people I need to make my point, so I don't care if anyone else knew. Remember: the infosec threat isn't who knows that Team Cap is in Wakanda, it's the mere fact of Team Cap knowing Wakanda's secret in the first place. The only reason I bring up Wakandans other than T'Challa knowing about Team Cap is to demonstrate that there are people around T'Challa who could bring up these issues--and we know they would, because they did in the comparable case with Ross.

With respect to T'Challa's word being ultimate and irrefutable, I'll say again what I said before when this exact point came up: "The course of action was settled with that conversation because T'Challa is the king, but the conflict was not." T'Challa made a decision and the decision was final, but the ramifications of the decision were ongoing and nontrivial. My ultimate point, again, is that this would also have been the case with Team Cap if the movie had cared to examine that angle, but it didn't (and that's fine).

It was not in the best of Klaue's interest to tip any government about Wakanda. That was just a desperate move from his part. He is a wanted criminal, just as much as Team Cap is. Even if he wanted to share it with his criminal peers; he would have to share any prize with the bigger fish, again, not in his best interests. Those are comparable, only Ross is a completely different case. Just because Klause isn't trustworthy doesn't mean he is less predictable. It's obviously convenient, but IMHO, the convinient part isn't that Klause never spread the secret in the appropiate manner; rather that he was written in the specific way where never spreading the secret makes sense for him.

-he works alone
-he's a most wanted criminal
-he's greedy
-etc.

I think it fits the narrative more than you give it credit for; but again, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, just to support a different take of the same situation.

You seem to be arguing against the claim that Klaue should have spread the secret before now, but I never argued that.

You also seem to be arguing that Klaue isn't a significant information security risk because...his criminal habits make him predictable? I think that's a frankly ludicrous argument. One predictable habit of criminals is that they often use information to cut deals when it's to their advantage. Wakanda has no way to predict that Klaue will never find it to his advantage to share their secret. Indeed, Klaue is literally shown on screen finding it to his advantage to share Wakanda's secret. What more do you need to see before it becomes clear that Klaue's knowledge is indeed a threat to Wakanda's secrecy?

And this does not address the argument I made that both Ross and Team Cap would be much more likely to damage Wakanda's secrecy if they decided to spill the beans, because they have credibility with important people in a way Klaue does not. The reasoning you use to say that Klaue's knowledge is not a threat does not apply to Ross and Team Cap. Since the point of this exercise was the potential infosec threat posed by Ross and Team Cap, not the threat posed by Klaue, your choice to focus only on Klaue is bewildering. The only utility of Klaue as an example here is to provide a weak lower bound on the infosec threat posed by Ross and Team Cap.

[Dr.Samurai]

Lethologica, do you think that Civil War demonstrates to T'Challa (and perhaps the others in his inner circle) that Captain America is not the same level of security threat as Ross, because he remained loyal to his friend, who he claimed was innocent, even in the face of over one hundred nations and the king of Wakanda himself?

In other words, Cap and Co. take loyalty and fellowship very seriously. Which is not to say that Tony and the others don't, but for Cap and Co. it is priority number one.

So Stark might be an issue because we know that even though he's trying to salvage everything and cares about his friends, he is still willing to fight them and control them for a higher ideal. Same with Rhodes and Vision, etc. You wouldn't bring these guys to Wakanda without seriously considering the risk involved.

But for Steve and Sam and Bucky, it's different. The ideal that they espouse the most is sticking together, being true to each other.

I think it makes sense that there is more trust in them not to betray Wakanda's secrets, than the others. Wakanda itself operates as it wants, keeping secrets from the world as well, believing itself to know better and to do what is best for its own people. I think there is a sort of kinship there.

I don't know, do you think I'm putting too much on the events of Civil War?

[BRC]

When it was introduced, Wakanda did import most of its tech, using funds that T'challa raised by lifting the ban on selling vibranium to outsiders. T'challa also used this money to travel around the world and train himself into a super-scientist, which he used to create some technologies that the rest of the world didn't have (though it's unclear if they're vibranium-based or whether he can mass-produce them). The world didn't pay them much attention because it was the 60s and they'd only been at this for about 10 years.

I've never heard this version of things. In the original appearance of Black Panther, the Fantastic Four are invited to Wakanda by an emissary in a hyperadvanced flying car, and find a trap-filled chrome techno-jungle.

As far as how Vibranium made Wakanda advanced, Vibranium is an all-purpose wondermetal. Not only is it super durable, but it has all sorts of other applications. Wakandan tech is mostly Vibranium-based. We see it used for everything from armor to sonic weapons to medicine in the movie.