Mordenkainen's Tome: what monsters are in it?

[EvilAnagram]

I just saw the Lore you Should Know episode where Chris Perkins and Matt Sernett talk about Giff and Star Spawn (a reworked 4e foul spawn) being in Mordenkainen's ToF. I'll add Star Spawn to my last list.

Damn. Now I'm officially interested. Star Spawn (which are not reworked foulspawn, unless things are significantly changed) are the bees unfathomable knees from beyond our mortal ken. For example, when Hadar, of Hunger fame, sends the avatar of his fathomless void to the material plane, it takes the shape of a star spawn (4e Monster Manual 2).

[Unoriginal]

I think Star Spawn used to be a template in 3.X's Lord of Madness book.

[Millstone85]

Star Spawn (which are not reworked foulspawn, unless things are significantly changed)

I am kind of "meh" on the ushemoi. Humanoids whose bodies change to match their classes, becoming hulking warriors, four-armed rogues or portly mages. It may not be D&D's most comical concept, but still, I think it is a bit much.

But I am especially not fond of how 4e made them foulspawn, humanoids touched by the Far Realm. I feel they took a spot that would have been better occupied by the kaorti.

[Beechgnome]

I am kind of "meh" on the ushemoi. Humanoids whose bodies change to match their classes, becoming hulking warriors, four-armed rogues or portly mages. It may not be D&D's most comical concept, but still, I think it is a bit much.

But I am especially not fond of how 4e made them foulspawn, humanoids touched by the Far Realm. I feel they took a spot that would have been better occupied by the kaorti.

TBH, I'm not too familiar with either star Spawn or foul spawn. If you search you should be able to find the video they talk about both so not really sure which way the new monster will lean.

[Falren]

I just saw the Lore you Should Know episode where Chris Perkins and Matt Sernett talk about Giff and Star Spawn (a reworked 4e foul spawn) being in Mordenkainen's ToF. I'll add Star Spawn to my last list.

Wait, so they're changing the name of 4e foulspawn to Star Spawn, but they're not adding actual 4e Star Spawn? Well that's just confusing.

[Millstone85]

TBH, I'm not too familiar with either star Spawn or foul spawn. If you search you should be able to find the video they talk about both so not really sure which way the new monster will lean.

Wait, so they're changing the name of 4e foulspawn to Star Spawn, but they're not adding actual 4e Star Spawn? Well that's just confusing.

The video is here and I have no idea why they mention foulspawn at all. Everything they are describing is clearly about the star spawn as they existed in 4e. Some great old ones are stars, and some astrological omens are followed by the appearance of aberrant beings in the world, known as star spawn, who may act as patrons for warlocks.

[the_brazenburn]

It looks like 4e's archons have become 5e's elemental myrmidons. Well, an elemental in armor makes for an odd yet not entirely unpleasant look. But it mainly makes me hopeful for a return of celestial archons.

Elemental myrmidons were in PotA. Is it going to be a reprint, or do you think we'll get more types?

Then we have the modron's evil cousin, an Acheronian construct called the cadaver collector.

No. No, that's just wrong.

Modrons are supposed to be truly lawful, with no other thing involved. The idea of a modron with any alignment on the Good/Evil spectrum goes against everything modrons are.

We are also getting more trolls. The art shows one who grew more heads and limbs, and one who looks pestiferous. There is also a mention of dire trolls.

Yes! I've been waiting for diretrolls for ages!

New art for the eladrin and shadar-kai. I dig the latter, not sure about the former.

Eh. I despise anything that gives elves another reason to be haughty. By which, I mean that fact that they're all related to mighty rulers of the planes.

Shadar-kai are different. I've always thought of elves as "banished fey", i.e. minor fey who were kicked out of the Feywild for some reason and fell to Earth. Elves from the Shadowfell is an interesting twist that I'll be looking forward to.

Also, new halfling art, which continues to be terrifying.

When is it not?

[Millstone85]

Elemental myrmidons were in PotA. Is it going to be a reprint, or do you think we'll get more types?

I haven't read PotA and have no idea.

No. No, that's just wrong.

Modrons are supposed to be truly lawful, with no other thing involved. The idea of a modron with any alignment on the Good/Evil spectrum goes against everything modrons are.

All I meant is that the cadaver collector is a construct from a plane adjacent to Mechanus.

When is it not?

I like the one on page 176 of the PHB.

Spoiler

Show

[Unoriginal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZHzLn2S6CY

This video shows the Maruts, who are how Inevitables are called this edition, with the artwork making them look like Modrons build for war in 40k Terminator armor.

Not sure if it's old news or not. Geryon is also shown (and has the dubious honor of being the first artwork for this book that I don't like).

[Millstone85]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZHzLn2S6CY

Oh, this guy. His videos almost always include something that irks me. It is amazing.

I found what he is reading: http://www.dragonmag.com/5.0/#!/arti...6385/103617813

This video shows the Maruts, who are how Inevitables are called this edition

No, he was just reading too fast and making stuff up. The document says "Inevitables appeared in 3e's MotP... Among them, the marut...".

with the artwork making them look like Modrons build for war in 40k Terminator armor.

My goodness, it really does!

[Unoriginal]

Eh. I despise anything that gives elves another reason to be haughty. By which, I mean that fact that they're all related to mighty rulers of the planes.

Shadar-kai are different. I've always thought of elves as "banished fey", i.e. minor fey who were kicked out of the Feywild for some reason and fell to Earth. Elves from the Shadowfell is an interesting twist that I'll be looking forward to.

The Mordenkainen's reveals that Elves stupidly lost their original semi-divinity by acting like fantastical dumb***es and jerk***es.

They don't have much reasons to be haughty

[the_brazenburn]

The Mordenkainen's reveals that Elves stupidly lost their original semi-divinity by acting like fantastical dumb***es and jerk***es.

They don't have much reasons to be haughty

I think that's the point. They're haughty about their divine origin, even though they lost it by being haughty.

And people think orcs are stupid.

[Unoriginal]

Oh, this guy. His videos almost always include something that irks me. It is amazing.

Eh, myself I can't stand any of Cloville's stuff.

I found what he is reading: http://www.dragonmag.com/5.0/#!/arti...6385/103617813

No, he was just reading too fast and making stuff up. The document says "Inevitables appeared in 3e's MotP... Among them, the marut...".

Thanks

I think that's the point. They're haughty about their divine origin, even though they lost it by being haughty.

And people think orcs are stupid.

Well, orcs are convinced they're superior.

[Millstone85]

The Mordenkainen's reveals that Elves stupidly lost their original semi-divinity by acting like fantastical dumb***es and jerk***es.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I read the whole story. Yes, the original elves could be anything, go anywhere and do whatever, in true embodiment of freedom, but I understand them wanting forms, places and aspirations they could call their own, an identity as a people. Daddy can't be bothered to help them find it, but daddy's wife yes. So they start establishing woodland kingdoms, and sea kingdoms, and so on. But when it becomes clear that mommy's plans have a sinister side (and I hope that's not just challenging daddy's authority) they almost all go back to daddy. They still all get punished, and for generations to come.

[Gingervitis]

Is there any word on Abyssal Tiefling subraces? I want my two headed Demogorgon Tiefling who doesnt get along with himself.

[Unoriginal]

Is there any word on Abyssal Tiefling subraces? I want my two headed Demogorgon Tiefling who doesnt get along with himself.

There is no Abyssal Tiefling this edition.

[EvilAnagram]

The Mordenkainen's reveals that Elves stupidly lost their original semi-divinity by acting like fantastical dumb***es and jerk***es.

They don't have much reasons to be haughty

I see no reason why anyone should read anything this book has to say about elves or dwarves. I haven't seen anything that seems remotely interesting in that respect, and I think it's silly to pretend that their histories should be in any way related across different settings.

[Gingervitis]

There is no Abyssal Tiefling this edition.

There was one in the UA, if I recall

[Unoriginal]

I see no reason why anyone should read anything this book has to say about elves or dwarves. I haven't seen anything that seems remotely interesting in that respect

That is your opinion. Personally, I love what they told us about those, and have found it very interesting.

and I think it's silly to pretend that their histories should be in any way related across different settings.

This, however, is just plainly ignoring 5e lore. As they have repeatedly said, all the official D&D settings happen either in the same Material Plane or in a plane connected to it, even if each world is in its own Crystal Sphere which obeys to slightly different rueles. So, yes, all their histories are related, because mostly eternal divine entities sharing a relatively unified workspace.

[Millstone85]

Yeah! It has been almost five pages since we (but mostly EvilAnagram) last went into the matter of setting neutrality!

The last time, the OP said I was "doing [insert divinity of choice]'s work here". Which I guess means I am doing nobody's work, and I have little hope the subject can be avoided much longer.

[Unoriginal]

There was one in the UA, if I recall

Nope, there were many variants of the Infernal ones, however.

[Beechgnome]

Yeah! It has been almost five pages since we (but mostly EvilAnagram) last went into the matter of setting neutrality!

The last time, the OP said I was "doing [insert divinity of choice]'s work here". Which I guess means I am doing nobody's work, and I have little hope the subject can be avoided much longer.

I am in a car at the moment and I started thinking... Should I just post a gif of the bus driver in the Simpsons tapping the sign? Will anyone get it? But yeah, a separate thread on 'Does anyone care about the lore of MToF?' will keep this one clean and useful.

[gloryblaze]

Nope, there were many variants of the Infernal ones, however.

https://media.wizards.com/2015/downl...lack_Magic.pdf

(S)he's right, there was one in UA. Who knows how canon it is, though. After all, Eberron was in UA and we all know how that's gone

[Millstone85]

https://media.wizards.com/2015/downl...lack_Magic.pdf

(S)he's right, there was one in UA. Who knows how canon it is, though. After all, Eberron was in UA and we all know how that's gone

If I remember recent videos correctly, it looks like MToF will have a variety of cambions from the Lower Planes, but they are keeping tieflings an infernal matter exclusively.

[Unoriginal]

https://media.wizards.com/2015/downl...lack_Magic.pdf

(S)he's right, there was one in UA. Who knows how canon it is, though. After all, Eberron was in UA and we all know how that's gone

My bad, then. This was before I started reading the UA again, I think. Or I just forgot about it.

[Kuulvheysoon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZHzLn2S6CY

This video shows the Maruts, who are how Inevitables are called this edition, with the artwork making them look like Modrons build for war in 40k Terminator armor.

Not sure if it's old news or not. Geryon is also shown (and has the dubious honor of being the first artwork for this book that I don't like).

If the art on the far right is the Marut art, then that's got my honor of being my first piece of disliked art. I am... not a fan of that abomination.

[EvilAnagram]

This, however, is just plainly ignoring 5e lore. As they have repeatedly said, all the official D&D settings happen either in the same Material Plane or in a plane connected to it, even if each world is in its own Crystal Sphere which obeys to slightly different rueles. So, yes, all their histories are related, because mostly eternal divine entities sharing a relatively unified workspace.

The thing is that I don't recall reading that in any of the books. I could be mistaken, but I only remember hearing it in videos made when the designers were explaining why they weren't bothering with actual setting books, and I think it's a disingenuous post-hoc justification for a financial decision. It makes no sense for the wild, cannibalistic elves of the godless Dark Sun to have any meaningful relationship to the pantheon of the Forgotten Realms. They cannot possibly exist on the same plane, and Dark Sun has no meaningful connection to the planes or Crystal Spheres. You could claim that Spelljammer implies this is the case (it doesn't imply that the same creative forces are in any way involved in the creation of different planes); however, they haven't released any official Spelljammer material, so you can't count it as 5e lore.

So no, this stuff isn't canonical in any setting other than Faerun, and there's no reason to think it ever will be because WotC doesn't seem to have any intention of fleshing out any settings (many of which have completely different origins and interspecies relationships for elves and dwarves).

[Regitnui]

So no, this stuff isn't canonical in any setting other than Faerun, and there's no reason to think it ever will be because WotC doesn't seem to have any intention of fleshing out any settings (many of which have completely different origins and interspecies relationships for elves and dwarves).

Faerun wizard: "so elves and dwarves have each other..."

Eberron sociologist: "er... No, the root cultures weren't in contact until after the unification of the continent, so that's a sweeping generalisation."

Athas trader: "Everybody hates elves, the damned thieves. Steal your water, your supplies and anything else they think they can get away with.

Me, to WotC: Yes, a unified lore where every elf and every dwarf ever everywhere dislike each other because Tolkien/nonexistent (in most settings) gods said so. You do you. I'll buy your book for the statblocks, and I'll ask my 3.5 books for distinct flavour, thanks."

So yeah, I'll be buying MToF, but I doubt I'll be using any of the lore.

((This has been your monthly 'homogenization is bad' rant. For more on this subject, or any kind of feedback, please don't message the writer.))

[Unoriginal]

The thing is that I don't recall reading that in any of the books. I could be mistaken, but I only remember hearing it in videos made when the designers were explaining why they weren't bothering with actual setting books, and I think it's a disingenuous post-hoc justification for a financial decision. It makes no sense for the wild, cannibalistic elves of the godless Dark Sun to have any meaningful relationship to the pantheon of the Forgotten Realms. They cannot possibly exist on the same plane, and Dark Sun has no meaningful connection to the planes or Crystal Spheres. You could claim that Spelljammer implies this is the case (it doesn't imply that the same creative forces are in any way involved in the creation of different planes); however, they haven't released any official Spelljammer material, so you can't count it as 5e lore.

So no, this stuff isn't canonical in any setting other than Faerun, and there's no reason to think it ever will be because WotC doesn't seem to have any intention of fleshing out any settings (many of which have completely different origins and interspecies relationships for elves and dwarves).

That's a pretty out here claim. Of course they can exist in the same plane, there is nothing preventing variations when they're on different planets that obey slightly different physico-magical laws.

Plus you're ignoring the existence of the "default setting", which is different from Faerun.

You may say that it sounds like a disingenuous justification to you, but you have no evidence that it is a fact, so it's just insulting the designers for a creative decision you don't like.

Also, Regitnui, what are you even talking about? D&D 5e Elves and Dwarves don't particularly hate each other, especially not "because Tolkien".

Outside from the specific history of the campaign and personal opinions, they just have theological and cultural differences that they can find annoying in the other.


If you want to criticise something and be taken seriously, knowing about it would help, just saying.

Anyway, this derailling has gone on long enough. The Mordenkainen's arrives today in some stores, right? We'll soon have all the answers.

[Millstone85]

The Mordenkainen's arrives today in some stores, right? We'll soon have all the answers.

I think you are a month early.

link

Look for Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes in your local game store on May 18! Otherwise, you can pick it up on May 29, and start adding new monsters and lore nuggets to your D&D sessions.