Le Parkour! (3.5 Feat, PEACH)

[CoffeeIncluded]

This is my first attempt making a feat, so I probably screwed up some of the mechanics. Basically, the idea is to make the rogue who specializes in free-running or Le Parkour only need one stat to work off of.

Parkour (General)

Prerequisite: 16 Dex, 5 or more ranks in the following skills: Balance, Climb, Jump, Tumble.

Benefit: You may use your dexterity modifier in place of a strength modifier whenever making a Climb check or a Jump check. You gain a +5 circumstance bonus to Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks. Additionally, you ignore up to 5 points of armor check penalty when making any of the above checks. However, you lose all benefits of this feat when you are over light encumbrance.

Normal: You suffer full armor check penalties, and don't have a +5 bonus to the above checks.

[bloodtide]

This is a bit of fuzzy logic. No matter how dexterous you are, it won't help you jump further. And no matter how dexterous you are it won't help you climb. Both of them are based on strength for a reason.


And this feat looks like it would make Jump and Climb checks with astronomically high bonuses.


A monk or rouge type getting a +10 to all jump and climb checks at level three?(+5 ability, +5 this feat), not even counting ranks(add them in they are all +16 now).

[vasharanpaladin]

Applying RL logic to D&D. +1 dead catgirls.

[arguskos]

This is a bit of fuzzy logic. No matter how dexterous you are, it won't help you jump further. And no matter how dexterous you are it won't help you climb. Both of them are based on strength for a reason.

Irrelevant. This is Dungeons and Dragons, not Real Life Simulator.

A monk or rouge type getting a +10 to all jump and climb checks at level three?(+5 ability, +5 this feat), not even counting ranks(add them in they are all +16 now).

So? What mechanical benefit does this really grant? It's burning a feat on a skill bonus, woo.

Also, you're assuming someone has a 20 to Dex at level 3, something that is blatantly false the vast majority of the time. A safer assumption is a 16, since most DMs do point-buy and monks/rogues have to use stat points in a few places. With a 16 in Dex and this feat, at level 3, assuming maximum ranks, you can have a whopping +14 in Jump or Climb. That's sooooo scary.

Coffee, the feat is underpowered. You placed far too many restrictions and it doesn't give a relevant effect. You need 20 total skill ranks, you need a Dex of 16 (irregular, by the by; the standard stat requirement for feats is odd, not even, so it'd be better as 15+), you can't use it in armor, etc. In return, you get... a stat swap on two crappy skills and a +5 to a few skills, only two of which are relevant. Note as well that the special line is not needed, and that you failed to list a bonus type (I suggest circumstance).

My suggestion is to power it up some, or cut a few restrictions, probably the armor line. This is D&D, let people be super-human. It's not like letting a guy in chainmail do some parkour is gonna break anything, and he's still suffering his ACP. In fact, here's a draft of a related idea:

Parkour
Prereqs: Dex 15+, 5 or more ranks in each of Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble
Benefit: You gain a +5 circumstance bonus to Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks. Additionally, you ignore up to 5 points of armor check penalty when making any of the above checks. However, you lose all benefits of this feat when you are over light encumbrance.
Normal: You suffer full armor check penalties, and don't have a +5 bonus to the above checks.

The concept is that D&D is inherently super-human, so might as well run with it. ACP is f***ing stupid, so let's give the dedicated freerunner the ability to freerun in armor somewhat, but not so much he can do such at level 3 in full plate. This loses the Dex swap, but the ACP ignore makes up for it. You're free to use this, if you'd like. No worries if you'd rather not, of course.

[drakir_nosslin]

This is a bit of fuzzy logic. No matter how dexterous you are, it won't help you jump further. And no matter how dexterous you are it won't help you climb. Both of them are based on strength for a reason.

Well, not if you think of dexterity as general body control, then it makes perfect sense.

[Serpentine]

I'd say that those Parkour people are using at least as much Dexterity (and Constitution) as Strength.

I would suggest, though, rather than giving them a flat +5 bonus, give some benefit such as (>ponders those Parkour videos...<) Climbing, Jumping, Tumbling etc at full speed, and/or as part of a charge, allows to ignore extra falling damage, and so on.

[Edge]

I agree with arguskos and Serpentine that it's weak as written, but I am also confused as to what Move Silently has to do with parkour. I really don't think traceurs focus on stealth of any sort.

Of course, this feat becomes better if you take it as a Tiger Claw martial adept, but not by tons.

[drakir_nosslin]

Talking about videos and what traceurs can do I'd like to point to this.
While the narrator is incredibly cheesy, the results of the first test is quite incredible.
Jumping jack, that's all...

[CoffeeIncluded]

Irrelevant. This is Dungeons and Dragons, not Real Life Simulator.


So? What mechanical benefit does this really grant? It's burning a feat on a skill bonus, woo.

Also, you're assuming someone has a 20 to Dex at level 3, something that is blatantly false the vast majority of the time. A safer assumption is a 16, since most DMs do point-buy and monks/rogues have to use stat points in a few places. With a 16 in Dex and this feat, at level 3, assuming maximum ranks, you can have a whopping +14 in Jump or Climb. That's sooooo scary.

Coffee, the feat is underpowered. You placed far too many restrictions and it doesn't give a relevant effect. You need 20 total skill ranks, you need a Dex of 16 (irregular, by the by; the standard stat requirement for feats is odd, not even, so it'd be better as 15+), you can't use it in armor, etc. In return, you get... a stat swap on two crappy skills and a +5 to a few skills, only two of which are relevant. Note as well that the special line is not needed, and that you failed to list a bonus type (I suggest circumstance).

My suggestion is to power it up some, or cut a few restrictions, probably the armor line. This is D&D, let people be super-human. It's not like letting a guy in chainmail do some parkour is gonna break anything, and he's still suffering his ACP. In fact, here's a draft of a related idea:

Parkour
Prereqs: Dex 15+, 5 or more ranks in each of Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble
Benefit: You gain a +5 circumstance bonus to Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks. Additionally, you ignore up to 5 points of armor check penalty when making any of the above checks. However, you lose all benefits of this feat when you are over light encumbrance.
Normal: You suffer full armor check penalties, and don't have a +5 bonus to the above checks.

The concept is that D&D is inherently super-human, so might as well run with it. ACP is f***ing stupid, so let's give the dedicated freerunner the ability to freerun in armor somewhat, but not so much he can do such at level 3 in full plate. This loses the Dex swap, but the ACP ignore makes up for it. You're free to use this, if you'd like. No worries if you'd rather not, of course.

Thanks. That's a lot better.

Should I add a Take 10 at all times thing, or not? (I'm sorry, I really don't know...)

[Roderick_BR]

This is a bit of fuzzy logic. No matter how dexterous you are, it won't help you jump further. And no matter how dexterous you are it won't help you climb. Both of them are based on strength for a reason.


And this feat looks like it would make Jump and Climb checks with astronomically high bonuses.


A monk or rouge type getting a +10 to all jump and climb checks at level three?(+5 ability, +5 this feat), not even counting ranks(add them in they are all +16 now).

Ever saw someone doing this Parkour thing? They use speed and balance to get momentum to climb on stuff. Think Prince of Persia. Instead of using your strength to hang onto something and pushing yourself up, you come running, jump onto some low heigh object, jump onto another, then on another, and then you are on the top of that wall. They use more momentum than raw power, and it requires speed and balance, hence, Dexterity.

For the OP: I like the Dex modifier in place of Str. Maybe the bonus is too much. You already have a bunch of things, and is getting a bonus better than skill focus for 2 different skills, and ignore Armor skill penalty (technically giving more bonuses).
Also, it would require a "running start" to receive the bonus (unless you have some of those abilities that let you jump high without a running start).

[bloodtide]

The concept is that D&D is inherently super-human

Oh, well, guess I'm on the other side here. I think D&D is simply heroic, not super heroic.

I guess some people want character with like +50 to jump checks and jumping over Grand Canyons.

I just like things not so..extreme....where characters only have like ten ranks in jump and are going over ten foot pits.

But to each there own....

[arguskos]

Oh, well, guess I'm on the other side here. I think D&D is simply heroic, not super heroic.

I guess some people want character with like +50 to jump checks and jumping over Grand Canyons.

I just like things not so..extreme....where characters only have like ten ranks in jump and are going over ten foot pits.

But to each there own....

Then play a different game. I don't mean to shoot your wants in the foot or anything, but D&D just doesn't support small heroism. The Jump skill by itself permits things that are well into the super-human stage. For example, the current men's world record for long jumps is 29.4 ft. To achieve a 30 ft long jump in D&D, you need a DC 30 check. Let's get that with a minimum of effort.

At level five, you have 8 ranks. Let's be fair and call it an 68 Strength. Jump gains Synergy from Tumble ranks, so let's toss that +2 in there as well. Look, we have a +13 without even doing anything special. We are now capable of making OLYMPIC long jumps. At level 5. If you're a Monk or Barbarian or Scout, your check increases by +4, thanks to Jump checks gaining bonuses from speed increases. Or, god forbid, a level 5 character drinks a potion of a level 1 spell, expeditious retreat, to gain +12. Look, at level 5, as a Monk 5 using a single 50 gp item, you can have a Jump check of 8 ranks+3 Str+4 speed+12 speed+2 synergy for a total of +29. Look, we can, BY DEFAULT, Jump further than any human is capable of. At level five. With just a single magic item and the description of the Jump skill.

And you think D&D isn't about super-humans.

A +5 bonus doesn't matter really in the over-all scheme of things when you realize the truths that D&D is built around. Feats need to do something relevant, not just give a small stat bonus, which is why Coffee's initial idea was underpowered. Of course, it's a great idea, since parkour rocks, but just needs some objective analysis and rebalancing.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Then play a different game. I don't mean to shoot your wants in the foot or anything, but D&D just doesn't support small heroism.

E6. And this feat can be btained in E6. (But I like normal D&D just as much.)

[Mulletmanalive]

Given what's on offer here and as a fan of the Pathfinder chase system [the only one i've found that has a planning:fun ratio worth using], I'd prefer the ability to take 10 under pressure and move at full speed while Balancing and Climbing over these bonuses.

While it may seem underpowered, Freerunner from Complete Scoundrel does a surprisingly good job in this field [a +5 three times per day, you say? Heresy], though that's because it can be activated after the roll and isn't significant enough to make the GM think "oh, i'll have to increase the stakes or it won't be fun for either of us," leaving you with a better chance of actually getting to excel at the free-running aspect.

[Roderick_BR]

Lots of math

As an addendun (sp?) a 5th level character was used as an example, and the concept with E6 suggests that, in D&D, around 6th-7th level, character already surpass normal human limits.
So, yeah, after a certain level, D&D *IS* supposed to be about super-heroics. See wizards bending reality with a snap of their fingers, and a fighter surviving a fire breath blast from an ancient dragon. If that's not super heroics, I don't know what is.