Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVII: Highlighting the Contrasts

[9mm]

So to take a break from practicing skeletons, I went to a 40k Nova prep tourney. While happily getting crushed I go a look at what a lot of the Beast Coast guys are testing out; Admech is stupid good right now. Also, do not take Old School secondary if you ever think for a second you can table your opponent.

Spoiler: GW QA Strikes again

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[Turalisj]

At least we know who is coming next.

[Cheesegear]

Admech is stupid good right now

What are they doing differently that hasn't already been done?

[LansXero]

What are they doing differently that hasn't already been done?

If I had to bet, both the advancing and shooting option for robots (and the chance to switch protocols without a datasmith) and the kataphron formation out of Vigilus are well suited to the current meta.

[Renegade Paladin]

I do believe Drop Pods can't take Primaris Marines, and of course they can't take tanks (but they can take dreadnaughts.)

Oh, did they change that back? They took the ability to carry Dreadnoughts away from drop pods in the Index and first Codex.

[LansXero]

Oh, did they change that back? They took the ability to carry Dreadnoughts away from drop pods in the Index and first Codex.

I think FW ones still can

[Drasius]

Confirmed, one of the cheesemongers in our group is getting more pods so he can have one each for his 3 leviathans, plus contemptors, but he's a FW ****ter, so it doesn't matter outside of "friendly" matches.

[Cheesegear]

Oh, did they change that back? They took the ability to carry Dreadnoughts away from drop pods in the Index and first Codex.

Drop Pods can only carry 'normal dudes'. For almost all purposes, this means Devastators and Sternguard, since they're the only Power Armour'd units worth taking.
...Unless you're playing Black Templars. Then your options open up to a few more units.

[Avaris]

I’m really surprised that we’re seeing a prominent buff to drop pods without them being able to be used by Primaris, and without a Primaris alternative. Most rule indications had been towards phasing out of old marines through not really improving their rules, so this is unusual!

[Cheesegear]

I’m really surprised that we’re seeing a prominent buff to drop pods without them being able to be used by Primaris...

Rumour is people don't like Primaris Marines. This is confirmed by even casuals leaving Space Marines in droves.
So GW has to revert to making OG Marines good.

Most rule indications had been towards phasing out of old marines through not really improving their rules, so this is unusual!

The unusual part is GW doing soft market research by reading internet comments about Primaris Marines.

[HoldTheLine31]

Hello everyone, since the discussion is revolving around the new space marines it is looking like good time for a long time lurker to ask for some army building advice.

A month and a half ago I managed to get a bunch of primaris marines as a spur of the moment thing. I never liked the old SM look, but found the primaris quite nice, thus when I saw someone selling his partially built primaris on the cheap I jumped on it, the primaris part of DV, minus the bolt rifle LT, an extra 5 hellblasters and inceptors, 2 boxes of intercessors not even openned, the full redemptor kit and the ultramarine paint set with the 3 easy to build intercessors all for 90 pounds was too good to pass up.
So now there is a primaris sideproject waiting to be built.

Now I'm at a loss how to build the intercessors, what rifles to take, sarge upgrades, msu or full squads?
Same deal abot the dred, the hellblasters and inceptors.
Not to mention how to expand from there, limitation being primaris only.
While it doesn't need to be a strong army, have some 10K points of IG to choose from for serious games, I do enjoy optimizing within the set limits.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, we did just discuss that Intercessors with Auto Bolt rifles could be useful with the new Chapter Trait, so there is an actual choice there.

As for the Sarge, build him cheap. He isn't gonna do much

[Cheesegear]

Now I'm at a loss how to build the intercessors, what rifles to take, sarge upgrades, msu or full squads?

Auto Bolt Rifles are the new hotness. Having 3 shots and the ability to move vastly outweighs the AP-1 on the Bolt Rifles. If you don't have access to Supplements, and thus you're looking to create your own Chapter ('cause why wouldn't you), one of the options is to Advance and Shoot without penalties. This is a massive boon to anyone running Auto Bolt Rifles and it's a huge kick in the junk to anyone who has old!Intercessors, 'cause GW in classic GW fashion decided to invalidate everyone's models in a huge **** you.

That said, the difference between the weapons on Intercessors is so minimal that if you just tell your opponent what you have, you're more than likely going to get an okay.

Same deal abot the dred, the hellblasters and inceptors.

Keep the Redemptor as cheap as possible. They aren't very good, and overloading them only makes them worse. All your heavy lifting is going to be done by Hellblasters.

Plasma Incinerators are the cheapest, and thus the best. Assault Plasma Incinerators have some hot tech related to the above moving and shooting. But, fact is, even Super-Charged, they're only S7, which means they don't wound T8 on 4s, which makes them a whole lot less useful in the competitive meta. If you're in a meta where Blightlords are big news (because if you aren't playing Primaris Marines, you're playing Death Guard, right?), the difference between S7 and S8 is about 'nil.

Inceptors want to go with Assault Bolters. Plasma is nice. But you don't need it. If you're going Primaris only for no reason, then you're looking at getting 30 Hellblasters because you literally have no other choices. Which is enough Plasma to choke most things.

Not to mention how to expand from there, limitation being primaris only.

Why? You lose out on so much good stuff, especially with the new Codex. I hope you like Hellblasters.

Given that GW didn't phase out old!Marines, and in fact, buffed them rather significantly, anyone going Primaris only is shooting themselves in the foot.

While it doesn't need to be a strong army

In that case, ignore everything I wrote and buy whatever you want.

[9mm]

What are they doing differently that hasn't already been done?

I don't have an exact list but the following is my best guess:

Spoiler: Admech spam

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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [90 PL, 1,571pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Forge World Choice

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Manipulus [5 PL, 90pts]: Magnarail lance

Tech-Priest Manipulus [5 PL, 90pts]: Magnarail lance

+ Troops +

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 116pts]: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 116pts]: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 116pts]: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [24 PL, 381pts] ++

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 117pts]
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 117pts]
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 117pts]
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

++ Total: [114 PL, 1,952pts] ++

[Blackhawk748]

I don't have an exact list but the following is my best guess:

Spoiler: Admech spam

Show

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [90 PL, 1,571pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Forge World Choice

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Manipulus [5 PL, 90pts]: Magnarail lance

Tech-Priest Manipulus [5 PL, 90pts]: Magnarail lance

+ Troops +

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

Skitarii Vanguards [7 PL, 113pts]
. 6x Skitarii Vanguard
. 3x Skitarii Vanguard (Plasma Caliver): 3x Plasma Caliver
. Vanguard Alpha: Radium Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 116pts]: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 116pts]: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon

Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 116pts]: 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Ferrumite Cannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

Skorpius Dunerider [4 PL, 73pts]: 2x Cognis Heavy Stubber, Twin Cognis Heavy Stubber

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Adeptus Mechanicus) [24 PL, 381pts] ++

+ HQ +

Tech-Priest Enginseer [3 PL, 30pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 117pts]
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 117pts]
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

Onager Dunecrawler [7 PL, 117pts]
. Neutron Laser and Cognis Heavy Stubber: Cognis Heavy Stubber, Neutron Laser

++ Total: [114 PL, 1,952pts] ++

So Ad Mech parking lot? I'm actually surprised that works as well as it does. More shocked that there are no robots.

[Cheesegear]

I don't have an exact list but the following is my best guess:

Yeah. The only thing I've heard about the AdMech Skimmer is that it's ugly as sin. Nothing on whether it's good or not. In my meta all the AdMech players lost their mind over the Robot Box and didn't really care for the skimmer. Meanwhile, I'm like "Don't you already have 6 Robots each?" and yeah. I guess the AdMech skimmer just (pun unintended) floated past my meta and I'm not really sure why...Well, I am sure...It's ugly.

Meanwhile, as a Space Marine player, those Invictor Warsuits look awful...I'll take three, thanks.

[Forum Explorer]

Yeah. The only thing I've heard about the AdMech Skimmer is that it's ugly as sin. Nothing on whether it's good or not. In my meta all the AdMech players lost their mind over the Robot Box and didn't really care for the skimmer. Meanwhile, I'm like "Don't you already have 6 Robots each?" and yeah. I guess the AdMech skimmer just (pun unintended) floated past my meta and I'm not really sure why...Well, I am sure...It's ugly.

Meanwhile, as a Space Marine player, those Invictor Warsuits look awful...I'll take three, thanks.

I like the new Admech Skimmer's looks. For pretty much the exact reason everyone else seems to hate it. I love that it looks like a Higgin's boat.

[Turalisj]

I hate it because it's literally a rhino that costs twice as much money.

[Cheesegear]

Is it just me or is the front cover for Codex: Space Marines...Bad?
I'm considering selling off all my Intercessors I got out of Know No Fear boxes to buy new ones with Auto Bolt Rifles, and with Crimson Fists, rolling hits on 2+. So good.

Assault 3 with Special Ammo is also bananas.

[Wraith]

Is it just me or is the front cover for Codex: Space Marines...Bad?

I'm not a fan of the "oil painting" style that they have used. It makes everything look blotchy and the colours are muted, presumably to look "realistic" which... well, 40k.

I think the White Scars cover is even worse. There's something up with the guy's face, pinched and squeezed into the middle of his enormous skull, that looks really painful. The grey background and cut-off section at his chest also makes it look like the picture is unfinished, or (probably more accurately) cropped from another image that's been used elsewhere. For the front cover of a $25 supplement that doesn't even stand alone, that sort of laziness is inappropriate.

[Drasius]

Is it just me or is the front cover for Codex: Space Marines...Bad?

As a bit of art in the book, it'd be ... OK, but for a cover, it's actually pretty underwhelming, though better than the cover for either of the supplements IMHO. If GW really wanted to evoke the 'member berries in the marine players, they'd have done a homage to the DoW opening cinematic
...
Actually, ya know what would be incredible for AoP? Recreating the moment that the Dread comes in and opens up with its assault cannon. If only we knew someone on the board here who was willing to paint up Blud Reyvans for AoP...

[Blackhawk748]

I hate it because it's literally a rhino that costs twice as much money.

Ya, I was not paying that for a transport. Stupid Double Kits

Is it just me or is the front cover for Codex: Space Marines...Bad?

Ya, it doesn't look good. Then again I compare it to the 4th Edition cover, which was great

[bluntpencil]

Is it just me or is the front cover for Codex: Space Marines...Bad?
I'm considering selling off all my Intercessors I got out of Know No Fear boxes to buy new ones with Auto Bolt Rifles, and with Crimson Fists, rolling hits on 2+. So good.

Assault 3 with Special Ammo is also bananas.

Yeah, eight with Assault 3 with Special Ammo, with an Aggressor and an Inceptor to ensure that they can advance without penalty, and play keepaway when assaulted?

Also, how does this sound?

1 Aggressor, 4 Inceptors, 4 Intercessors with Auto Bolt Rifle, 1 Intercessor Sergeant with Auto Bolt Rifle. It can't drop in like Inceptors without a CP, but it can advance and blaze away no penalty, and the Intercessors put out a lot of shots too. More importantly, they provide 10 ablative wounds, at T5, for the Inceptors.

Personally, I'm thinking too big an investment, and the Inceptors lose out on far too much mobility for the gain in wounds. Probably better 1 Aggressor, 1 Inceptor, 8 Intercessors?

[druid91]

I hate it because it's literally a rhino that costs twice as much money.

I mean it's a rhino that's also tougher, has more guns, has canticles and who's kit can make a cool tank.

[Avaris]

Ya, I was not paying that for a transport. Stupid Double Kits

I feel GW is missing a trick by not doing cheaper partial kits that allow use of the rest of the parts... like, £30 for the main kit, then £20 for another set of the shared parts.

[Cheesegear]

I feel GW is missing a trick by not doing cheaper partial kits that allow use of the rest of the parts... like, £30 for the main kit, then £20 for another set of the shared parts.

Or, just sell a 50 Pound kit to everyone, whether they want it or not.
I don't think they're missing a trick at all. I think it's classic price-gouging, bundling a product people don't want, with a product people do want, and upping the price because technically you are getting more of the product.

[LansXero]

Or, just sell a 50 Pound kit to everyone, whether they want it or not.
I don't think they're missing a trick at all. I think it's classic price-gouging, bundling a product people don't want, with a product people do want, and upping the price because technically you are getting more of the product.

Maybe it works for other markets, but dual kits for us become 'buy another chasis from China'. Its the only way people justify the expense; hell, we're very close to bundling them ourselves. GW needs to wise up, because putting the chasis in one sprue and the bits / weapons in another makes the recasters job so much easier.

[Blackhawk748]

Maybe it works for other markets, but dual kits for us become 'buy another chasis from China'. Its the only way people justify the expense; hell, we're very close to bundling them ourselves. GW needs to wise up, because putting the chasis in one sprue and the bits / weapons in another makes the recasters job so much easier.

This happens a lot. My buddy had so many extra turrets for his Leman Russes he just started making the bodies out of plastic card. Thats what happens with the double kits, because I have 1/3 of a vehicle, I just find something to finish it off.

Also I'm a dirty magnetizer

[Manticoran]

This happens a lot. My buddy had so many extra turrets for his Leman Russes he just started making the bodies out of plastic card. Thats what happens with the double kits, because I have 1/3 of a vehicle, I just find something to finish it off.

Also I'm a dirty magnetizer

>.> I legit started playing Orkz so I could just throw random parts of vehicles together to make Looted Vehicles.

[Hootman]

>.> I legit started playing Orkz so I could just throw random parts of vehicles together to make Looted Vehicles.

I'm reasonably sure this is how all Ork players get started. That, and the desire to scream war cries at (or with) their toy soldiers.