Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

[tomandtish]

The last time I remember seeing Momo was way before the yoga arc, when May was first hired as Marigold's assistant. That's... what, 450? 500 strips ago? She didn't show up at all throughout the vtuber stuff, to which she was sort-of-kind-of adjacent, and the last time she had a story arc to herself was.... Talking to Bubbles about the fighting ring while she still worked there some 3000 strips ago?

As for the others, I don't necessarily like a lot of them, but I am still interested in seeing how they might get into trouble with each other and what sort of mess they can make - not that I want to see them suffer, but seeing them screw up and deal with the consequences has way more potential than Cubetown, which clearly isn't going anywhere.

Last appearance of MoMo was comic 4602. So right at the start of the yoga arc. We're on 4999, so 397 comics ago, or roughly 79 weeks ago. (So a year and a half).

[Wraith]

Eh, not bad for a guess Although I did forget the time she went to Union Robotics to get her hair regrown, so "only" about 1000 strips since she did something more than appear for 1 panel in someone else' plot? May still had her old chassis, so I think I'm not too far off.

[Mordokai]

I'm going to preface this with the preamble that will probably surprise precisely no one. That being, I am once again drunk.

I should probably get counseling for that. The addiction seems to be getting out of hand. But be that as it may, that's a problem for another day.

Be that as it may... it seems this is the only way I am able to communicate my thoughts, even in an online space. And right now, I want to say the following.

I've read Jeph's thoughts on the latest comic. That one being the 5k.

First of all and totally non-snarky... congratulations dude. You did more than I probably ever will. At least on the artistic front. As has been mentioned already by Rodin(I think), it couldn't have been easy to come up with a comic every day for 13+ years.

But, as has also already been mentioned... the quality of the comic in its entirety has suffered for it. I will neither be providing the proof for that, nor elaborating on it. I think Jeph and his work speak for themselves.

I am honestly happy he finds enjoyment in his work again. My cynical self is wondering why he pushed for so long if he didn't enjoy it, but hey, we humans are weird like that, so I'll be content with that explanation.

With that in mind... I no longer want to subject myself to this compost. I went back... altogether eleven comics. And I do believe it has cemented what I've long suspected.

Claire is the cancer on this comic. At least as she is portrayed now. And I feel confident in stating that no matter what Jeph does from now on... nothing will ameliorate that disease.

I suspect I knew that for a long time now. I posit the only thing keeping me reading QC was... you guys and gals. And that is not a complaint. I am genuinely grateful to you for that. It was fun reading how much of a quagmire QC has become. I felt validated because of it. It felt... good.

But enough is enough. No more schadenfreude. No more hate-reading.

No more QC. As of now, I am done with it. I wish Jeph and all his characters the best, but I no longer wish to be a part of their journey.

Sadly, this also means no more GitP QC. This topic was pretty much my last link to GitP. Thank you for reading my thoughts and sometimes even replying to them. I liked feeling a part of the group.

I will miss you guys. I will do my best to not check back. But all the same... all the best.

To each any everyone of you. It has been my greatest pleasure.

[Cikomyr2]

Don't get me wrong, less than 100% Cubetown (and less Claire as she is currently being written) is an absolute win.

It's just a really weird thing to do. If QC is a sitcom, then Cubetown is the spinoff. Only he isn't going all-in on doing a spinoff.

Chief O'Brien moves with his family to DS9, and we get introduced to a whole new cast of characters. This is required, because he has no contact with the old Enterprise crew. Throw in Worf too, even though it took him several seasons to move over.

Only instead of an episode of DS9 every week, we might get an episode of TNG instead. Or not. Who knows? They aren't running concurrently, and each show only gets an episode depending on the whims of the author that week.

Does that sound like a healthy setup?

DS9 would have been so much richer if they allowed themselves to break from their formula of "one crew on a space station".

Instead of Worf rebuking Gowron and getting exiled in Way of the Warrior, have him join Gowron and try to steer klingon politics. Show the growing emnity between Firebrand Changeling Martok and Worf, voice of reason. Have him have his own bloody spinoff plot, where he occasionally interact with the main crew and their Klingon issues.

[geoduck]

DS9 would have been so much richer if they allowed themselves to break from their formula of "one crew on a space station".

Instead of Worf rebuking Gowron and getting exiled in Way of the Warrior, have him join Gowron and try to steer klingon politics. Show the growing emnity between Firebrand Changeling Martok and Worf, voice of reason. Have him have his own bloody spinoff plot, where he occasionally interact with the main crew and their Klingon issues.

Finances are a problem here. You spin Worf off doing his own thing, that means a whole second set of actors, props, sets, costumes and makeup. (Especially if everybody's a Klingon...)

[MoonCat]

Well, Claire accepted the job and has already ceded to pressure on her first policy of no party. And based on Liz's suggestions, I strongly suspect her fallback of small party is going to go out the window too.

I don't like to immediately jump on newest comics to point out a problem, as sometimes it becomes apparent that Jeph might be intentionally creating it to resolve later. I remember originally this thread was posting that Jeph was cluelessly making Moray a terrible interviewer, when it is now clear he wanted her to be read as incompetent.

That being said, I'm certainly not optimistic that the narrative arc of Claire whipping Cubetown into shape is presaged well at all by this immediate backing down and the promise of wacky chaos.

[Scarlet Manuka]

I'm confused. Everyone's been complaining about how Claire is getting unrealistic, effortless wins in everything, and is in no way qualified for the job she seems to be receiving. Are we now complaining because it looks like she's actually not going to be completely effective in that job right from the start?

[Mechalich]

I'm confused. Everyone's been complaining about how Claire is getting unrealistic, effortless wins in everything, and is in no way qualified for the job she seems to be receiving. Are we now complaining because it looks like she's actually not going to be completely effective in that job right from the start?

It's the ping-pong effect. Jeph can't seem to commit to any single framing for well, anything, regarding Cubetown and as a result the inconsistencies keep piling up. And this only extends to the comic overall as the commentary on the current comic implies that Jeph's going to bounce back between Cubetown and Northampton, which is a recipe for disaster given how the comic is already overstretched (and you just know he's going introduce a half-dozen minor characters at this party).

[Ionathus]

I don't like to immediately jump on newest comics to point out a problem, as sometimes it becomes apparent that Jeph might be intentionally creating it to resolve later. I remember originally this thread was posting that Jeph was cluelessly making Moray a terrible interviewer, when it is now clear he wanted her to be read as incompetent.

If I remember that discussion from back when the interview happened, most people acknowledged that Jeph was intentionally casting Moray as an incompetent manager.

I can't speak for others, but my reaction back then focused on how incompetent she - and Cubetown by extension - appeared. The interview wasn't just a bad interview - it was so crammed full of red flags that having Claire even consider the offer strained credibility for me.

And on top of that, I was annoyed that Claire's "prioritize you're [sic] own needs" character growth arc culminated in "I'm going to exercise my self-confidence by immediately picking the absolute worst workplace possible."

[Wraith]

And on top of that, I was annoyed that Claire's "prioritize you're [sic] own needs" character growth arc culminated in "I'm going to exercise my self-confidence by immediately picking the absolute worst workplace possible."

I'm similarly amazed as to how "prioritize your own needs" has gone from "be a girlboss" and morphed into "babysit other people who are helplessly reliant on you".

Claire coming out of her shell and taking job hunting more seriously could have been a good arc, but taking up a poorly defined job with no boundaries, oversight, accountability, goals, guidance or target in order to be metaphorically wiping butts in Cubetown is in no way the same thing, unless all your only need is to be in control of other people.

It's almost Freudian as to how Jeph's version of 'strong woman' is almost universally either an overbearing mother-figure, someone who resorts to violence, or both.

[Ionathus]

It's almost Freudian as to how Jeph's version of 'strong woman' is almost universally either an overbearing mother-figure, someone who resorts to violence, or both.

I don’t see this as a repeated problem, rather a unique one for Claire. Who aside from Claire is playing nanny to the cast? They all seem to be taking care of themselves well enough. Roko is competent at the AI rights org, but only in some ways and her dynamic with Beeps and Nelson is handled well enough imo.

And the only one I can think of who resorted to violence is Faye. And only then in the early days - she’s mellowed out as “casual violence among friends/romantic partners ha ha” has fallen out of favor in some circles, including Jeph’s seemingly.

[BRC]

Eh, it's an easy pattern for both Drama and Comedy.

You have a Wacky Character, and a Sensible Character.

Wacky Character has some problem, the solution is obvious from the outside, but the wacky character is too wacky to accept that solution.

Reasonable Character comes in and says "Hey, Wacky Character, you should do the Reasonable Thing"

Wacky Character protests in amusing ways, but they know their reasons are bad, so they quickly give in.

See: Roko and the AI rights Organization. Yay and Claire's Streamer Mom. Heck, even the "Marigold gets a business manager" plotline follows that pattern (Although May as the "Reasonable character" is an unusual choice).


Cubetown seems to be set up for an endless parade of these scenarios, probably Feat: Martin if the problem is social/interpersonal, and Claire if the problem is professional.


Jeph seems to prefer female characters, and female character+ Sensible Character as outlined above pretty easily reads as "Overbearing mother figure telling you that if you need to put your legos away if you want to stop stepping on them"

[Vinyadan]

*gasps* Martenbot?

[Willie the Duck]

And the only one I can think of who resorted to violence is Faye. And only then in the early days - she’s mellowed out as “casual violence among friends/romantic partners ha ha” has fallen out of favor in some circles, including Jeph’s seemingly.

Faye was a snarling wolverine in many ways and it was coded as amusing instead of a behavioral problem a little too often. When Dora was deliberately coded as being irrationally jealous when dating Marten she occasionally threatened people with a sword or other such things. And Brun threatened Clinton with a harpoon gun one time. Jeph has clearly moved on from said characterizations, and I'd say still being hidebound to it/hung up on it/convinced it speaks to Jeph's personal gender inter-relations would be the Freudian behavior, but to each their own.

As to nanny/mother-hen characters, it really depends on how you look at it. As BRC points out, there is just 'the Sensible One' as a sitcom standby, and that is half the cast at times (with many of them rotating between that and 'the Wacky One' depending on whether their idiosyncrasy is being agitated at the moment (ex: Hanners can be the one to tell Marigold to get it together over a nerd-culture obsession until she gets dirty, then she runs around screaming and Marigold gets to be the adult, etc.). Bubbles is often Faye's 'Rock,' but much more as a Voice of Reason/Island of Stability rather than a nanny.

[halfeye]

Brun threatened Clinton with a harpoon gun one time.

Shot-gun retconned into a harpoon. A harpoon-gun is a huge thing, not man-portable.

[Ionathus]

Jeph has clearly moved on from said characterizations

Agreed.

As to nanny/mother-hen characters, it really depends on how you look at it. As BRC points out, there is just 'the Sensible One' as a sitcom standby, and that is half the cast at times (with many of them rotating between that and 'the Wacky One' depending on whether their idiosyncrasy is being agitated at the moment (ex: Hanners can be the one to tell Marigold to get it together over a nerd-culture obsession until she gets dirty, then she runs around screaming and Marigold gets to be the adult, etc.). Bubbles is often Faye's 'Rock,' but much more as a Voice of Reason/Island of Stability rather than a nanny.

Yeah, I'm with you on this. Being "the sensible one" in a given interaction isn't the same as being typecast as a mothering figure. Nobody in the comic (except for Cubetown & Claire more recently) has gotten to that point. For the most part, everyone in the comic is actually pretty reasonable about interacting with each other and respecting people's autonomy and maturity, even while dealing with wAcKY SheNaNigaNS

When Dora was deliberately coded as being irrationally jealous when dating Marten she occasionally threatened people with a sword or other such things.

"You know him?" "Carnally. On a regular basis." remains maybe my favorite strip in the whole series. Dora's crazed expression, the wordplay of "know," the pacing of the setup dialogue, the reappearance of Chekhov's Sword thunking into the table...It's just an expertly-executed joke that hit all the right notes for me.

[SaintRidley]

I guess Claire's first order of business should be explaining the concept of sexual ethics to the Director/Moray and why a wet t-shirt contest shirt is inappropriate for the typical workplace.

[Ionathus]

I guess Claire's first order of business should be explaining the concept of sexual ethics to the Director/Moray and why a wet t-shirt contest shirt is inappropriate for the typical workplace.

It's possible that Jeph is entirely self-aware of how far he's taken Moray and is in on the joke on this one. I try to make it my default assumption that webcomic creators don't bend their stories on the whims of forum whiners.

But it's hard to read yesterday's t-shirt strip as anything other than a direct "Take That!" against audience complaints that Moray is just a barely-justified walking fetish.

[Vinyadan]

I wonder if that's actually a dead Moray's shirt.

[KillianHawkeye]

But it's hard to read yesterday's t-shirt strip as anything other than a direct "Take That!" against audience complaints that Moray is just a barely-justified walking fetish.

How is it a "take that"? Doesn't a wet t-shirt contest just confirm what people dislike about Moray?

[Ionathus]

How is it a "take that"? Doesn't a wet t-shirt contest just confirm what people dislike about Moray?

I consider it a possible "take that!" in the sense that he's pretty directly acknowledging full author awareness that Moray looks naked and it's creeping out a portion of the audience. At the same time, he's continuing to build jokes around it and shows no indication of planning to de-sexualize her supposed nudity.

If she had a more endearing personality or was less frustrating as a plot element, I would probably be willing to extend more grace here. But Moray just aggravates me, so any passing level of self-awareness of the weirdness of her character feels deliberate, even spiteful ("you hate Moray? Great. I'm adding more Moray."). It's probably just a personal thing, but like I said, it feels intentional.

[Rodin]

Shot-gun retconned into a harpoon. A harpoon-gun is a huge thing, not man-portable.

Harpoon gun

They're used for fishing, rather than the giant ones used for whaling.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Harpoon gun

They're used for fishing, rather than the giant ones used for whaling.

Better known (in the UK, at least - I've never heard them described as harpoon guns), as a spear gun.

[halfeye]

Harpoon gun

They're used for fishing, rather than the giant ones used for whaling.

Harpoon

Rhubarb.

[Rodin]

Harpoon

Rhubarb.

Ah my mistake.

Point still stands though, harpoon guns can be just as portable as a handheld harpoon. It all depends on the size of the animal you're hunting.

As to the naming business, I literally Googled "harpoon gun" and the first result was an example of an actual harpoon gun made in 1910 in Birmingham, England. There's quite a few more further down the search results, including one that's supposed to be the inspiration for the harpoon gun used by James Bond. Quite a few of the historical mounted harpoon guns were also man-portable in theory, clocking it at only a meter or so long. They'd probably have one hell of a recoil though.

The terminology appears to be interchangeable, as even some of the spearguns I saw referenced were said to shoot harpoons.

[Willie the Duck]

Look, I didn't know how to find the comic in question quickly and used TVTropes, where they mentioned the harpoon. My brain did not retain that and I was thinking speargun (which seemed like something that would more easily be drawn over a shotgun, in my mind, then a harpoon), but somehow wrote harpoon gun. We do not need to (unless people really want to) go into a longwinded tangent on the differences between harpoons, spearguns, and (what wikipedia apparently thinks are most commonly called) harpoon cannons.

Re: Moray and 'take that's -- Jeph is not Randy Milholland. If he's going to do anything take-that-ish with his audience, it's going to be mostly in the 'yes I see you' level, rather than in the 'I feed on your bitter rage' level. I suspect Moray will stick around, but most of the humor will be in the 'I'm aqueous!' brand of humor -- seats getting wet, not being able to keep a cell phone cause she keeps shorting it out, etc.

Re: today -- perfectly normal '19 y.o. nerdish type doesn't know what kind of beer they want' thing is fine. Marten and Claire were going to find out what the bartender would give her anyways, why didn't they order what they really wanted (I'm assuming they have favorite beers, even through we haven't seen a drinking episode for quite some time). Maybe Jeph (who sobered up before moving to Canada, right?) doesn't have enough Canadian beer jokes to drop names here.

[Keltest]

Look, I didn't know how to find the comic in question quickly and used TVTropes, where they mentioned the harpoon. My brain did not retain that and I was thinking speargun (which seemed like something that would more easily be drawn over a shotgun, in my mind, then a harpoon), but somehow wrote harpoon gun. We do not need to (unless people really want to) go into a longwinded tangent on the differences between harpoons, spearguns, and (what wikipedia apparently thinks are most commonly called) harpoon cannons.

Re: Moray and 'take that's -- Jeph is not Randy Milholland. If he's going to do anything take-that-ish with his audience, it's going to be mostly in the 'yes I see you' level, rather than in the 'I feed on your bitter rage' level. I suspect Moray will stick around, but most of the humor will be in the 'I'm aqueous!' brand of humor -- seats getting wet, not being able to keep a cell phone cause she keeps shorting it out, etc.

Re: today -- perfectly normal '19 y.o. nerdish type doesn't know what kind of beer they want' thing is fine. Marten and Claire were going to find out what the bartender would give her anyways, why didn't they order what they really wanted (I'm assuming they have favorite beers, even through we haven't seen a drinking episode for quite some time). Maybe Jeph (who sobered up before moving to Canada, right?) doesn't have enough Canadian beer jokes to drop names here.

Its really roundabout, but theyre basically just going with what the bartender recommends. That's not especially abnormal for people who dont have particular tastes about beer.

[Wraith]

Nice of the bartender to keep tabs on every single inhabitant of Cubetown to recognise them on sight - especially the ones who have been shut away in a single room for 2 years without interaction.

Shame he couldn't be bothered to bring in any bottles, or glasses, or menus... or taps... or a till.... or anything else apart from blank chalkboards. This looks like the most depressing bar I've ever seen, just bare grey walls staring at you while you hope that the staff bring you something non-corrosive to drink.

I get that Liz doesn't know any better, but why are Marten and Claire allowing the bartender to choose a drink for them? They already think AIs are useless morons, and yet they're trusting the judgement of someone whose only interaction with beer is how it smells despite not having a nose.

"Here, try this one - it probably won't kill you. I don't think that synaesthesia is usually lethal."
"Humans don't get that. Also, this is Bud Lite with a morello cherry and a paper umbrella in it?"
"I said 'probably', didn't I? Good luck, sucker."

[Traab]

Nice of the bartender to keep tabs on every single inhabitant of Cubetown to recognise them on sight - especially the ones who have been shut away in a single room for 2 years without interaction.

Shame he couldn't be bothered to bring in any bottles, or glasses, or menus... or taps... or a till.... or anything else apart from blank chalkboards. This looks like the most depressing bar I've ever seen, just bare grey walls staring at you while you hope that the staff bring you something non-corrosive to drink.

I get that Liz doesn't know any better, but why are Marten and Claire allowing the bartender to choose a drink for them? They already think AIs are useless morons, and yet they're trusting the judgement of someone whose only interaction with beer is how it smells despite not having a nose.

"Here, try this one - it probably won't kill you. I don't think that synaesthesia is usually lethal."
"Humans don't get that. Also, this is Bud Lite with a morello cherry and a paper umbrella in it?"
"I said 'probably', didn't I? Good luck, sucker."

From the sound of things, she is very well known as the acerbic child who chases off anyone who dares to try and communicate with her while screeching about her brilliance. Also, moray is apparently sending out constant updates for whats going on in cubetown and this guy reads them. Agreed the bar is pretty boring looking but I guess its on purpose as marten even describes it as an apple store. And they dont think AIs are useless morons, what? Think moray and that security guard are kinda dumb, but most ais are fairly smart and aware of whats going on around them, if a bit strange due to invisible llama building and whatnot. They have no reason to refuse a bartenders choice of beer. Especially as he has yet to do anything remotely stupid or strange.

[Keltest]

Besides, his name is Bar Tender. How can you not trust his tastes?


Oh god ow, I think I pulled something rolling my eyes while typing that.