Girl Genius XXXII: The scientific method at work!

[Shining Wrath]

Othar has not attempted to kill a Spark on screen since - the escape from Castle Wulfenbach? Has he done anything to advance the de-Sparkification of Europa since then?

It's pretty clear he has a to-do list, and stopping the Polar Lords was ahead of killing Gil, and probably not having an Eldritch Horror manifest in Mechanicsburg is ahead of killing Agatha.

Question for discussion - if, once things are more or less normal by Europa standards, Othar were given a choice of killing only one of Agatha, Gil, and Tarvek, which one would he kill?

Probably *not* Tarvek, who works very hard at appearing to be non-threatening, and is therefore probably the most dangerous of the three in a political sense.

Is Tarvek a Spark whose specialty is spy networks?

[BRC]

I feel like "Unhinged Othar" really lasted like, three pages until Agatha pushed him out of the balloon. Ever since then he's been fairly reasonable.

[Traab]

i feel like "unhinged othar" really lasted like, three pages until agatha pushed him out of the balloon. Ever since then he's been fairly reasonable.

"foul!!!!"

[wingnutx]

I will renominate "[To be fair], I absolutely intend to replace it with my own madness"; the portion in brackets may be truncated if needed.

This one has my vote.

[Shining Wrath]

Let's assume that unhinged Othar is still there, ready to spring forth once The Other and Eldritch Horrors are no longer threatening to end Europa's very existence.

Once unhinged Othar pops back out, what's his to-do list look like? There's the "kill in this order regardless of difficulty" list, and then the "kill in this order considering whether I can hope to do it" list. I mean, he's not going to free Europa from Spark rule if he waits for 72 years and finally takes out Gil or Agatha, then another 45 years to get the heir, and then 37 years to get the new Big Bad.

[Divayth Fyr]

I mean, his goal isn't even freeing Europa from Spark rule, but rather removing all the Sparks (with him commiting suicide in the end). Which is a goal that as far as we know is impossible to achieve.

[BRC]

My personal take is that Othar's "Mission" is more a goal than a practical day-to-day concern.

Which is to say, his primary goal is to be A Hero. He can't do that if he goes around trying to assassinate every considerable political figure. Sparks are usually either 1) Obvious Threats, 2) Major Political Leaders, or 3) Valuable assets for major political leaders.


When he tries to kill Agatha, he knows nothing about her except that she's a Spark who just fled Castle Wulfenbach. He has no idea what she's going to do. My guess is that Othar's policy if he encounters a lone spark that he can kill without consequence and knows nothing about is to kill them before they get a chance to blow up the nearest village with their Exploding Omelette.

Any other spark he handles on a case-by-case basis. If they're a known heroic quantity, he'll spare them. If they're well known or work for somebody powerful, he needs to consider the risks and consequences of a little impromptu assassination. Agatha in the Balloon is basically one of the few cases where he'll just kill somebody for being a spark. Otherwise, he's either sparing them, or killing them because he's a Hero.

Like, woe become the minor spark who happens to spot a friendly campfire and asks to spend the night, but in general, I think he's far less practically devoted to his Mission.

[Radar]

Like, woe become the minor spark who happens to spot a friendly campfire and asks to spend the night, but in general, I think he's far less practically devoted to his Mission.

Interestingly enough Dumedd survived exactly such a situation.

[BRC]

Interestingly enough Dumedd survived exactly such a situation.

Huh, Wiki diving says that in the novel it's apparently made clear that Othar didn't know that Dumedd was a spark when they met.

[Divayth Fyr]

The Sneaky Gate is open

Spoiler

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classic Othar.

[Radar]

Huh, Wiki diving says that in the novel it's apparently made clear that Othar didn't know that Dumedd was a spark when they met.

Well, it was not stated in the comics as that meeting was only briefly mentioned in one flashback panel. That being said, they did meet at the Castle Wulfenbach, when Klaus tried to do research on Othar and Dumedd was brought there as he did not do his grease trap cleaning duties. Possibly Othar did not catch during that time that Theo is a spark.

[Ailurus]

Man, the Foglios are just dropping great lines all over the place this week. I would like to add "Super-science, on the other hand, appears alive and well" to the list of potential thread titles.

[Shining Wrath]

What sort of Vozzler would I be if I let a spell cast by a near-deific super-Spark stop me raise the question of just how powerful a humble Vozzler actually is - and how humble Thotep actually is.

[MPHJack7]

Man, the Foglios are just dropping great lines all over the place this week. I would like to add "Super-science, on the other hand, appears alive and well" to the list of potential thread titles.

I, personally, am partial towards "Heathen British magic holds no sway here!" for how amusing it sounds out of (and within) context.

[Shining Wrath]

I, personally, am partial towards "Heathen British magic holds no sway here!" for how amusing it sounds out of (and within) context.

The adjective "heathen" also raises interesting questions. Is Othar religious? Do Europa "Christians" (they have monks, and Bishops, and Popes, but actual belief system is not spelled out) consider Albia a false prophet?

[BRC]

The adjective "heathen" also raises interesting questions. Is Othar religious? Do Europa "Christians" (they have monks, and Bishops, and Popes, but actual belief system is not spelled out) consider Albia a false prophet?

While the exact details are not spelled out, Europans do seem to follow several flavors of Christianity.

I wouldn't be surprised if a strict line is drawn between "magic" and "science". Old school sparks were apparently often referred to as wizards or sorcerers anytime Clarke's Third Law came into effect. Whatever Albia did is so far beyond Agatha's understanding of science that she calls it a "Spell". The implication has been that the "magic" we see is just as much sparkwork as deathrays and clanks, that Sparks reach a point where they're no longer visibly using anything we recognize as "technology".

Note that Othar is, I believe, scandinavian, putting him near the territories of the Polar Lords, who seem to favor this style of "magic" over southern spark's use of machines and things. As a result, his culture might be especially gung-ho about such things.



My personal headcanon is that as the general tech level advances, more Sparks break through and become apparent. Until the industrial revolution or so, only sparks good enough to bend the fabric of reality by wiggling their fingers or brewing things out of herbs really got to play around in the Madness Place, and even then only if they had a mentor OR were smart enough to work it out from first principles alone, hence "Wizards". As understandable technology and scientific education become more common, the proverbial "bar" is lowered.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Man, the Foglios are just dropping great lines all over the place this week. I would like to add "Super-science, on the other hand, appears alive and well" to the list of potential thread titles.

I, personally, am partial towards "Heathen British magic holds no sway here!" for how amusing it sounds out of (and within) context.

I've added "British" to the beginning of the first one, but otherwise both noted.

[Shining Wrath]

While the exact details are not spelled out, Europans do seem to follow several flavors of Christianity.

I wouldn't be surprised if a strict line is drawn between "magic" and "science". Old school sparks were apparently often referred to as wizards or sorcerers anytime Clarke's Third Law came into effect. Whatever Albia did is so far beyond Agatha's understanding of science that she calls it a "Spell". The implication has been that the "magic" we see is just as much sparkwork as deathrays and clanks, that Sparks reach a point where they're no longer visibly using anything we recognize as "technology".

Note that Othar is, I believe, scandinavian, putting him near the territories of the Polar Lords, who seem to favor this style of "magic" over southern spark's use of machines and things. As a result, his culture might be especially gung-ho about such things.



My personal headcanon is that as the general tech level advances, more Sparks break through and become apparent. Until the industrial revolution or so, only sparks good enough to bend the fabric of reality by wiggling their fingers or brewing things out of herbs really got to play around in the Madness Place, and even then only if they had a mentor OR were smart enough to work it out from first principles alone, hence "Wizards". As understandable technology and scientific education become more common, the proverbial "bar" is lowered.

It makes sense that Clarke's 3rd law would apply, and that therefore the stronger the Spark the more they are referred to as wizards / witches.
I remember old Andronicus referring to Van Rijn as a sorcerer, which makes sense in this context.
Technology makes it easier for humans to do things. Therefore, it make sense that a weak Spark without any tech to help them would not find it easy to accomplish much. It would take a strong Spark indeed to go from "live in cave with flint knives" to "I'm going to create metal alloys of various levels of ductility and hardness and craft clanks from them".

[Devlerbat]

Question for discussion - if, once things are more or less normal by Europa standards, Othar were given a choice of killing only one of Agatha, Gil, and Tarvek, which one would he kill?

He has already made an exception for Agatha due to her being a Heterodyne (as Othar seems to equate the name to her father and uncle rather than any other ancestor) so likely Gil whose family lineage was very much on Othar's chopping block.

Also, I am not even sure if Othar has even realized Tarvek is a spark yet.

[geoduck]

He has already made an exception for Agatha due to her being a Heterodyne (as Othar seems to equate the name to her father and uncle rather than any other ancestor) so likely Gil whose family lineage was very much on Othar's chopping block.

Also, I am not even sure if Othar has even realized Tarvek is a spark yet.

He knows, he said so during the meeting in Paris, and that Tarvek will be among the last to die.

The adjective "heathen" also raises interesting questions. Is Othar religious? Do Europa "Christians" (they have monks, and Bishops, and Popes, but actual belief system is not spelled out) consider Albia a false prophet?

In his Twitter adventures, he describes himself a Deist. And since Albia is older the Jesus, if you follow the latter's teachings in some form, that makes her a heathen.

Moloch's mother picked his name out of a copy of the Bible (without reading the context), so it does exist in some form in Europa.

[Rockphed]

In his Twitter adventures, he describes himself a Deist. And since Albia is older the Jesus, if you follow the latter's teachings in some form, that makes her a heathen.

Moloch's mother picked his name out of a copy of the Bible (without reading the context), so it does exist in some form in Europa.

Also we have the Corbetite monks and the seven Popes. I suspect the cathedral in Mechanicsburg is also (nominally) christian.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Also we have the Corbetite monks and the seven Popes. I suspect the cathedral in Mechanicsburg is also (nominally) christian.

Probably not, according to the novels. The original christian clergy apparantly didn't last very long.

[theangelJean]

New comic.

Spoiler

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Fighting like cats and dogs...

[wingnutx]

Thread title: I'm bigger than you! Run!

[Shining Wrath]

And Gil and Tarvek are once again reminded that "sane" in Agatha's entourage doesn't mean the same thing as "sane" in the rest of Europa.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Thread title: I'm bigger than you! Run!

Duly noted. We do seem to have a rash of good title materiel recently...

[Devlerbat]

Also we have the Corbetite monks and the seven Popes. I suspect the cathedral in Mechanicsburg is also (nominally) christian.

I would have to spend more time digging then I honestly care for to say for sure, but I am pretty sure the Heterodynes chased outside church influence out with one of them building a church to himself as part of a bet with a pope or archbishop.

[Kantaki]

And Gil and Tarvek are once again reminded that "sane" in Agatha's entourage doesn't mean the same thing as "sane" in the rest of Europa.

To be fair, Krosp said "reasonably" sane. Although that's still stretching it like a bungee rope.
And to be fair, until Mr. Dog* went rabid at him he was.
So clearly this is Gil and Tarvek's fault.

Also, looks like Bang found a friend.

*Who is he again?

[Shining Wrath]

IIRC one of the older Heterodynes managed to become a pope, as a sort of sick joke?

[DavidSh]

To be fair, Krosp said "reasonably" sane. Although that's still stretching it like a bungee rope.
And to be fair, until Mr. Dog* went rabid at him he was.
So clearly this is Gil and Tarvek's fault.

Also, looks like Bang found a friend.

*Who is he again?

Mr. Dog? I think he is the Knight of the Hunt who survived the attack on the Mopey Tortoise, but I didn't get his name.