Looking for Group

[Natural20]

A webcomic I want to talk about is Looking for Group. For those of you not in the know, Looking for Group is a fantasy webcomic based on World of Warcraft and other MMOs. It is also quite popular in those very circles. Looking at it, it's not hard to understand why that is: the art's decent, it's fairly amusing, and it's created by the same guys over at Least I Could Do.

I find it a waste of time.

Upon reflection, Looking for Group was an exciting find for me. This was after I got hooked on OOTS, and was craving for a good fantasy webcomic. Maybe OOTS set the bar too high, but I read the first few strips with bemusement. Things were dying, and it was amusing... sometimes. Well, OOTS took a few strips to get on track too, maybe I just needed to give it a chance. And so I've read it up to today, and I'm still as confused as I was on day one.

Things are happening, characters are introduced, plots are thrown in, and I'm left with a sense of dissatisfaction because nothing makes any sense. It's strip 105 and I still can't make heads or tails of it all. The characters quest together to find the All-mighty MacGuffin, but there's no reason for them to be sticking together at all. Oh sure, one of them stays around because "he's bored", but to me, that's a pile of BS, and is lazy writing. There is not enough character exploration to make me care about any of them, and makes any justification to their actions seem weak. There's the elf, who's Drizzt but not. The evil warlock, who's evil and likes senseless killing. There's the orc cleric, who's charged with finding the MacGuffin. And the minotaur, with his race being all that I care to know about him. That's your cast in a nutshell.

I think part of the problem of LFG is because the creators' previous project was Least I Could Do, a gag-a-day strip. Early strips of LFG were plagued by this, ramming punchlines into panels for the sake of a laugh. This adds to my initial confusion: was this a story? A joke-a-day comic? It's disorienting. That's one of the rare qualities of OOTS that sets it apart: it has jokes in it, but the story is rarely delayed because of it, and they fit in naturally with the exposition. In short, Richard Burlew has his cake and eats it too. Not so for LFG. The plot's progress is sacrificed for a cheap joke far too often. While reading it, I'd wish the characters would stop making wise-cracks and shut their airholes so the story can continue.

The art's not bad though, and the comic does have moments where it makes me crack a smile. Still, it fails at one of its main objectives, and that is to get me into the story. The inability to do so makes me dispassionate about everything and everyone in the LFG world.

[nerulean]

I know what you mean. I'm still diligently reading the comic, largely because I like LICD, but I too am waiting for the plot to fall into place.

I went back and re-read the whole archives once it got to 100 pages, and I'm still honestly none the wiser. I'm studying English at university so I'm pretty much trained to spot a plot and tease out meaning from what's implied and suggested, but LFG really doesn't give us much to go on.

I think a large part of the problem is that Sohmer's pacing it like a novel, when in fact it's a webcomic. What might work brilliantly as a ten page chapter in a novel to set up backstory for the world and introduce interesting facets of your characters really doesn't work at all when it's four pages of comic that you have to wait a fortnight to read, all the while wondering when the actual plot's going to turn up. He's suffering from trying to make his exposition interesting and instead just makes it confusing.

Less than a month after re-reading the entire archives, and I've already forgotten what the motley crew are actually questing for. Something about a handfork of truth, or maybe something related to a lost civilisation that they had to destroy so it could come back? Maybe?

[Vondre]

I don't read it religiously at all - probably as a result of its relatively weak plot/characters - but I enjoy it when I read it. I enjoy it a lot, especially the earlier strips, for one reason and one reason only: Richard.

Yes, he's the general stereotypical anti-hero, who's only along for the opportunity to kill stuff (*cough**cough*), and maybe I'm just a sucker for dead-baby-type humor, but I have had many a good laugh from several of Richard's lines.

I do agree on many points. The plot is very forgettable, as are many of the characters. But it's a fun comic nevertheless.

[Raroy]

Plot? We don't need no stinkin plot.

I think the problem is that the comic is trying to be smooth and slick but suffers from being too slippery. The characters are just there as a character and in the story. It's just a shallow pool that looks pretty because the bacteria are making interesting colors and patterns(I do not know what this analogy means but it has its uses). Most of the humor is just Richard being evil. This web comic can be deceitful with its ways but don't fall for it unless you like this sort of thing.

[Natural20]

A prime example of what I'd like to call "wasting my precious time" would be this strip. 10 panels. That's how much it takes for Richard to climb through the window, recite his titles, and pray. We get it, the guy has a lot of names. It's funny sort of. Sohmer dedicates 10+ panels just for his joke, instead of doing something relevant with the space. At the rate we're going, this story's heading nowhere FAST.

[JackMage666]

Well, it sounds like you're trying to push you're idea of what he should be doing onto what he's actually doing.

If he wants to do a joke-a-day comic, he's free to. I personally find it funny, and read it every week. Do I think it has a great plot? Not especially, but I don't think that's the point of his work.

What I'm saying is, if it's not or you, don't read it. Not all comics are going to follow the same formula, even if it's the same genre.

[Natural20]

If he's free to do a comic, certainly I'm free to complain about it. I know I can turn a blind eye, but I don't see how that conflicts with my pointing out why I don't like it, and flaws I see as legitimate. My very point is that he ISN'T trying to follow a joke-a-day formula.This isn't like LICD, where there's the occasional story arc lasting 3 to 4 strips. LFG is a tale where it all adds up to something. I'm saying he's trying to do both, and ends up bungling the story. And there IS a story, hard as it could be to find at times. But don't let my complaints detract you from your enjoyment of the comic. To each his own, right?

[Jibar]

Actually, I'd say the problem is that he's not writing this as a novel, or a webcomic, but as a published comic.
He's just drumming up attention for it by posting it on the internet. If he thought it would sell without its status as a webcomic, then he would sell it straight off and just advertise it on LiCD.
Therefore, as a published comic, it is barely beginning.
There is a plot in there by the way, which is largely taken up by Gid's search for the Sword of Truth and whatever this prophecy about Cale is.
I'll admit, I only read it because Sohmer rules me, but I still like it with all the problems.

[nerulean]

I'm pretty sure the only reason I'm complaining is because I'm disappointed. LICD is awesome and Lar's art is the sort of pretties that I could sit and look at all day, and the amount Sohmer reads and his love of the genre must surely mean he has a decent grasp of how to poke together a fantasy plot. It has all the ingredients for awesomeness, but lacks the awesomeness itself.

[doliest]

I believe the old line required here is-'Don't like? Don't read.'

[Heliomance]

Things are happening, characters are introduced, plots are thrown in, and I'm left with a sense of dissatisfaction because nothing makes any sense. It's strip 105 and I still can't make heads or tails of it all. The characters quest together to find the All-mighty MacGuffin, but there's no reason for them to be sticking together at all. Oh sure, one of them stays around because "he's bored", but to me, that's a pile of BS, and is lazy writing. There is not enough character exploration to make me care about any of them, and makes any justification to their actions seem weak. There's the elf, who's Drizzt but not. The evil warlock, who's evil and likes senseless killing. There's the orc cleric, who's charged with finding the MacGuffin. And the minotaur, with his race being all that I care to know about him. That's your cast in a nutshell.

Summary of character motivations.

Orc cleric: Looking for the MacGuffin so she can trade it in exchange for her life.
Minotaur: Knows the cleric from when she was a kid, raised her, likes her (possibly loves her, in the familial sense) and is coming along to help her out and make sure she doesn't get into anything she can't handle.
Elf: Is ridiculously noble and naive, and has pledged himself to the orc as her knight errant, without actually considering the fact that her alignment hovers dangerously around evil, when he is struggling to be the epitome of all that is good and pure. In his eyes, she's a damsel in distress and that's reason enough.
Warlock: Seriously, he's bored. He has ADHD, and the elf amuses him. He's just along for the lulz. And the chance for mass destruction.

[Narmoth]

I love it!

[Arakune]

There is Richard, what isn't to love?

[Tekraen]

Summary of character motivations.

Orc cleric: Looking for the MacGuffin so she can trade it in exchange for her life.

Not her life, just to be left alone. Even so, she still chose to stay with Cale's group even though she could've searched Kethnecia for the sword. There is a chance to restore balance to the world, and she's seeing that.

Minotaur: Knows the cleric from when she was a kid, raised her, likes her (possibly loves her, in the familial sense) and is coming along to help her out and make sure she doesn't get into anything she can't handle.

He's also one of the sons of one of the most well-known and possibly feared clan chiefs of his people - and he's the scholar. His search is for knowledge, and he's found the greatest archaeological find in world history. He knows how the world works, that it exists in shades of grey, and stands with Cale as he begins to understand it as well.

Elf: Is ridiculously noble and naive, and has pledged himself to the orc as her knight errant, without actually considering the fact that her alignment hovers dangerously around evil, when he is struggling to be the epitome of all that is good and pure. In his eyes, she's a damsel in distress and that's reason enough.

Was. The Kethnicia arc existed to show him there was something worth fighting for (Gamlon) and that he would have to sacrifice to achieve his ideal - again, the world exists in shades of grey. Everything comes with a price (current arc). Gid is no longer a 'damsel in distress' to him.

Warlock: Seriously, he's bored. He has ADHD, and the elf amuses him. He's just along for the lulz. And the chance for mass destruction.

Heh, yeah. The funny part is that in doing what he wants most (destruction) he actually begins to accomplish a lot of good in the world. Cale's turning him and Richard doesn't realize it.

I think LFG started as a gag-a-day with a fantasy motif, but it's theme has changed to a search for balance, redemption, and justice. The story began as Cale's attempt to become 'not just another evil elf' of old, and he discovered where that legend began and even now he continues to fight it. What's more, it's working. He's not standing for good or evil, but justice, and justice is neither good nor evil.

[Johnny Blade]

There is Richard, what isn't to love?

The fact that there really can be too much of a good thing, I'd say. I mean, most of the gags are about Richard. Often, there aren't even gags at all, just Richard uttering one of his ludicrous lines.
Granted, this can be funny and thus LFG has its moments, but often, I find it just annoying that too many strips are claimed by Richard, as in my eyes, it gets boring after some time and distracts from the rest of the cast and the story.

The convoluted plot doesn't help either, since you know this whole thing is going somewhere, but can't figure out where exactly, because new subplots and characters are randomly thrown in and plot development is often stifled by Richard, even now, where his potential to kill anything in sight is constricted a little.

[NEO|Phyte]

Incidently, I don't think Gid is an orc. She is slightly lacking in fingers to be a regular orc, plus the fact that if she WAS an orc, people wouldn't be asking what she was.

[BlackStaticWolf]

Incidently, I don't think Gid is an orc. She is slightly lacking in fingers to be a regular orc, plus the fact that if she WAS an orc, people wouldn't be asking what she was.

She actually looks a lot like a WoW-style female troll to me.

[Arakune]

She actually looks a lot like a WoW-style female troll to me.

The authors say she is a half-orc/half-troll thing of unknown pedigree.

[Hood]

LFG is a comic I enjoy, but I actually think the plot advances too fast.

Wait, that's not it. It's either it goes too fast or not at all.

Seriously, half the strips are jokes, and the other half rushes through a plot I can't make head nor tail of. Balance, please?

And Richard... I like him, but he's too obviously the comedic relief. That's pretty much his only role- no character development at all, just a shallow killer. Maybe it wouldn't be so noticible if he wasn't the ONLY funny character in the strip. Seriously, how many of the punchlines or humorous strips don't involve Richard? Variation would be nice.

Maybe the pacing is off because he loves the Wheel of Time books, so it might it influence his writing. That would explain a lot.

[FoE]

I've been reading the LFG comic from the beginning and here are my thoughts:

1) Occasionally funny.
2) Good art. Very well-drawn.
3) The plot stinks.

I'll admit to reading LFG whenever it updates, but I don't love the comic. The story feels rushed and is somewhat incoherent. Having said that, I've read far, far, far worse.

[Lunaya]

I love LFG. The plot is exciting (to me) and I find several of the characters to be very endearing. As of late, I think they are even making an attempt out of fleshing out Richard's character.

After being placed under a curse that severely weakened his powers, he was left to wonder what good he was to anybody. Eventually he said it outright, "My power is who I am. Who am I without it?". Character development anyone? I say, give it a chance.

[Natural20]

A valid point, Lunaya. Except Richard grew back to his normal size when something magical landed on him, so existential crisis over. We'll see how that goes. Hopefully Sohmer can provide an adequate explanation, but if he pulls something like "it's maaaaaagic", then that just proves my point.

[Heliomance]

I'd say that the probable explanation is that that immense magical blast destroyed the freaking cursed amulet. Thereby undoing the curse, through the fact that there is No Ontological Inertia.

[Natural20]

I'd say that the probable explanation is that that immense magical blast destroyed the freaking cursed amulet. Thereby undoing the curse, through the fact that there is No Ontological Inertia.

That's an awesome link, Heliomance. I respect Ontological Interia, and any fantasy setting that respects it as well. I guess we'll see, won't we?

[Tekraen]

I'd say that the probable explanation is that that immense magical blast destroyed the freaking cursed amulet. Thereby undoing the curse, through the fact that there is No Ontological Inertia.

In the Shadowrun system particularily, that's because the objects destroyed are the power focuses for said effects. While I don't like the "Kill the bad guy and the sun comes out" type of inertia, destroying a focus to release the spell is something I can respect.

[Gez]

Many RPGs have a complicated system with subtle distinction between "permanent" or "persistent" effects (which are continuously maintained, and thus which are dissipated if whatever maintains them gets destroyed) and "immediate" or "instantaneous" effects (which make a change and then dissipate, without cancelling their effect).

Typically, a spell such as fireball (to take a staple -- whatever the game, as long as it has magic, it has a fireball) is generally instantaneous. Killing the spellcaster won't resurrect his torched victims. However, spells such as petrification or metamorphosis can be of either type.

[Sc00by]

because of this thread I went and read LFG.

Why had no one told me about this before?!

It's great! Though I may just LOVE Richard!

I agree that the pacing might be a little off in places and I have to confess that I sometimes have to read the strip twice to work out how the narrative flows, but I fail to quite see the OPs point. It's an awful lot better than a huge number of other webcomics.

[Jayngfet]

And Richard... I like him, but he's too obviously the comedic relief. That's pretty much his only role- no character development at all, just a shallow killer.

A valid point, Lunaya. Except Richard grew back to his normal size when something magical landed on him, so existential crisis over. We'll see how that goes. Hopefully Sohmer can provide an adequate explanation, but if he pulls something like "it's maaaaaagic", then that just proves my point.

let me be the first to say pwned

[sihnfahl]

I'd say that the probable explanation is that that immense magical blast destroyed the freaking cursed amulet. Thereby undoing the curse, through the fact that there is No Ontological Inertia.

Actually, it's heavily implied that Richard's selfless act is what caused the amulet to break.

The amulet was designed to diminish Richard and his powers. Richard, being a very self-centered person, would presumably not be able to break the amulet as he would never be 'selfless'; this is borne out by Hctib's statement "howcanthisbe?onlyanactofselflessness" when he's facing a fully-grown and powered Richard.
When Richard protected the boy from the magical blast, and suffered for it, the magics of the amulet took that to be a selfless act, which then broke the amulet and the spell.

[Zenos]

It's a good comic, although slightly schizo about either advancing plot, have a gag or put in a side quest for some action.