Werewolf Central III - All potential wolves please read

[Shadowcaller]

Just divide all the numbers by 25.

Players start with 4 Money (Munny, if skippy is reading this)

Jade Idol costs 8,
Slumbering Tora costs 16,
Ebony Owl Netsuke costs 14, etc., etc.

No reason to have the numbers that large if there is a common factor.

Well its the betting system that cuases the high numbers since its easier to reduce high numbers with 25 % then low numbers were you have to round down and up the amount of money.

[Griever]

Wasn't thinking about the reduced betting amounts, good point.

Carry on.

[Supagoof]

I have to say the money/betting looks great. I like the caveot about the money being reduced when multiple players bet on the same lynching. I also like the 25 basis as well, but I play a lot of Texas no limit hold-em.

There was one Kami I was confused with terminology wise (though I haven't read through all the detail of them, just the ones that could be bought right off the bat )
Wine of Blood and Iron - Says it increases your vote by 1 - should that be vote or point? I mean, if I had 4 votes against me, I'd hope I didn't have an item that would make it 5. I'm guessing it's point, but wanted to make sure.

[Shadowcaller]

I have to say the money/betting looks great. I like the caveot about the money being reduced when multiple players bet on the same lynching. I also like the 25 basis as well, but I play a lot of Texas no limit hold-em.

There was one Kami I was confused with terminology wise (though I haven't read through all the detail of them, just the ones that could be bought right off the bat )
Wine of Blood and Iron - Says it increases your vote by 1 - should that be vote or point? I mean, if I had 4 votes against me, I'd hope I didn't have an item that would make it 5. I'm guessing it's point, but wanted to make sure.

Well its point, I'm just confusing things, I have changed it now.
My main source of Japanese terminology is MTG actually. But I check every name on various sites before I use them thought so I hope there is nothing wrong with them.

Edit: I sure hope the betting system will work as its supposed to do since most of the game is built upon it now.

I'm a bit worried that some players will think its boring without roles that can't use their night action every night thought.
But instead all masons and wolfs are going to have night actions so i hope that is a good trade-off.

All the kami are going to have a "every-night-use" night actions thought...

Even More edit: The recruitment thread is going to be up this week I hope...

[Shadow]

Read my sig. No time to talk, starting tomorrow.

I'll see you guys whenever I can.

[Shadowcaller]

Read my sig. No time to talk, starting tomorrow.

I'll see you guys whenever I can.

Holy...

Shadow is getting rich! [/off-topic]

[Supagoof]

Shadow*Grumble* Would have liked to solve half of your problem there Shadow, but ah well. If not my piranaha's (Twinks) then.

Go AL Central!

Hmm, Chicago "Light Rail" series for the WC?

Back to keeping the thread on track...

Shadowcaller - Yeah, it's a bummer when players simply drop out of the game because they don't like their role.

Everyone
Speaking of which, I'd like to open a discussion on it and how it affects the games, because quite simply it SUCKS when half the villagers stop playing simply because they don't "feel involved".

To all of you who drop out early, or let yourself auto-lynch because you didn't get a unique role.

STOP IT!
[rant]
You are ruining the games for the rest of us.

If you don't want to commit yourself to playing the game for the few minutes a day during the 4-10 weeks it takes to run, then don't sign up.

Every role has the ability to change the game. EVERY ROLE.

Look at the damage I caused in Pirates 4, as a villager.

Look at the damage that Shadow caused in YOW3, as a villager.

And don't use the excuse - "Oh, but you guys a really good..."

You know why we're seen that way? Because we don't quit when we get a role we don't like.

A huge hug to all of you who keep up your commitments. Thank you for making these games the best parts of my day.
[/rant]

Now, for discussion, what things have kept people playing in the games even when they had a role they didn't like. I'm talking about things like

Role-playing?
Items?
Money?
Games where everyone has had a role?
Narrations?

Let everyone know your thoughts, so that the best can put into future games and the worst can be removed.

[Emperor Demonking]

I'm lucky. I've only had one role that I didn't like and I died night 1 in that game.

Personally, I dislike autolynches but I hate when a player doesn't like the game and tries to get lynched.

[Murska]

Narrations are awesome and if you can do something other than just point randomly it's great. Even if I'm a villager, if I'm in contact with someone it's really fun.

[Vampiric]

Narrations always make a good game, in my opinion. The Final Fantasy: Advent Children Trilogy () is a great example of this. The second game was one of the best I've ever been in, and I was only a villager.

Items I think are good, but depends on how they are used - could be game-breaking, but OTOH could make what seems a boring role a good one.

Super Smash Bros. Melee was good fun, because everyone had a role, though some appeared to work better at the start, and some better in the endgame. Lots of different roles can work, but the abilities need to be really thought through.

Role-playing can be good, but it depends on whether a) the person playing knows the content that the game is based on, and b) whether the player finds it easy to role-play in that context. I know there are plenty of games I have fun in, but can't role-play in, such as FF:AC. Those games are great fun, but I don't know anything about Final Fantasy - I watched the films, but payed very little attention to the storyline. But it can be quite fun watching others role-play, like Helgraf, Cristo, Shadowcaller, Griever or 'Goof. But again, that's down to personal preference...

[Freshmeat]

Where villagers causing damage is concerned, I'd definitely make a distinction between standalone villagers causing damage and seer proxies causing damage, but I agree with most of what Goof said.

Now, for discussion, what things have kept people playing in the games even when they had a role they didn't like. I'm talking about things like

Role-playing?
Items?
Money?
Games where everyone has had a role?
Narrations?

• RP: I'm sure that for some people, this is a big factor.
• Items: This definitely sparks player interest. I'm not a fan of items though, since only a handful of games can pull them off well. But if handled well, this can have a positive impact on player activity.
• Money: Same as items.
• Everyone has a role: Definitely a factor. The more power roles out there, the less autolynches.
• Narrations: I've got some doubts about how much of a factor this is. If you're not active, you can't earn money to buy items, or RP with others. But narrations are constant, and therefore I don't think they really influence player activity. Whether you're active or not, there will always be narrations.

I believe that game length is also something to keep in mind. There's quite a difference between a game that lasts only a few weeks and a game that lasts months on end. This has nothing to do with the quality of these games, but I personally find myself lapsing into periods of interest and non-interest and back if the game runs on for too long. Especially during Camp II this was the case.

Ultimately, a narrator can only do so much. Things mostly depend on the players themselves. If someone tries something tricky, you're sure to get a spectacle. If someone tries something tricky and it goes horribly awry, you're guaranteed to get even more of a spectacle. A fair amount of Werewolf Drama™ - now that's what causes people to come back to the game thread again and again!

[Andre Fairchilde]

Regarding RP - As a narrator it REALLY helps me write your kill scene if you include some RP.

[Shadowcaller]

Kyou II - Tale of the Ninja have started recruiting.
And if you see this Alarra could you please move the thread to structured games?

Edit: Oh and I agree with Andre, its much easier to write narrations to RP players.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Regarding RP - As a narrator it REALLY helps me write your kill scene if you include some RP.

Thirded.

Also, everybody has a role - gets the players more involved but also more risk of a breakable game.

[Supagoof]

Wonderful, but don't limit the thoughts/opinions to my list either. If there are other things that help keep you involved in a game, let everyone know so maybe we can incorporate them as well.

[Shadowcaller]

As for "keeping players interested in the game" I strongly advise against paranoia games. (nope I can't just stop hitting them)

The Kami is another trick I use to keep players interested in the game even if they are just villagers. I want to reward players that pull off tricks and analyze other players.

Thats what WW-games are all about... and betrayal of course *stabbity*

[Reinholdt]

Well for the most part I stay in games for the following reasons:
1. I attempt to RP in every game except some of the smaller ones. Though this tends to fall flat more often than not sometimes I end up with a really enjoyable character/experience.
2. Getting connected. If your a villager without a role, you really have little to lose from throwing caution to the wind and start talking to people. Who knows, maybe you'll even cause one of those spectacles Freshmeat likes.
3. Most importantly I stay in the games for the mental challenge of trying to logically determine who's a wolf. I like to consider it a psychological brain teaser/puzzle. That's mostly just my personality though.

What makes me want to give up and die in games:
1. Good narrations. I always want to find out my death scene. Curse all you people for being good writers.

[Haruki-kun]

Encouraging communication. Usually I talk to people about the game on MSN or the like. It doesn't even matter if I know they're safe or not, it helps you feel in the game and like you're enjoying it. And then, of course, the realization that you've been fooled, then lynch your contact.

Games where everyone has a role: Good, but let me point out that a lot of people auto'd in LLD and USSBB anyway.

Items: .....Egh..... it does help people a little bit, but I think it mostly breaks the game for everyone else. I'm not a big fan of items.

Money: No comment. Never played a game with money. And Alchemists II had a similiar concept, which broke the game, so I think I don't think I like it very much.

[Shadowcaller]

Encouraging communication. Usually I talk to people about the game on MSN or the like. It doesn't even matter if I know they're safe or not, it helps you feel in the game and like you're enjoying it. And then, of course, the realization that you've been fooled, then lynch your contact.

Games where everyone has a role: Good, but let me point out that a lot of people auto'd in LLD and USSBB anyway.

Items: .....Egh..... it does help people a little bit, but I think it mostly breaks the game for everyone else. I'm not a big fan of items.

Money: No comment. Never played a game with money. And Alchemists II had a similiar concept, which broke the game, so I think I don't think I like it very much.

Your making me worried that money and items are going to break my game.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Narrations: I've got some doubts about how much of a factor this is. If you're not active, you can't earn money to buy items, or RP with others. But narrations are constant, and therefore I don't think they really influence player activity. Whether you're active or not, there will always be narrations.

I disagree. I think that a narrator can have a very positive or negative impact on a game. Much like a really good announcer can make a mediocre event seem like a classic or can drag an exciting game down, a narrator can do the same to a game. If a narrator rarely updates on time, or goes 4 or 5 days on average without updating, it causes the game interest to plummet. Players stop checking the thread as often, the conversations stop, and momentum grinds to a halt. Also, lackluster updates on the narrator's part can dull the edges of an exciting game. There is a huge difference between a monotone "He has successfully hit a baseball over the back wall and the Cardinals have achieved a victory" and hollering "Go crazy, folks! Go crazy! Its a home run! Cardinals win! Just like there is a difference between "Atreyu was killed, he was a villager" and a really nice long gruesome, awesome, or hilarious night kill scene. Anyone else remember in AC:II whenever Banjo made that post after Shadow was killed and the whole thread was thinking "HOLY CRAP ON A TUBA! WE ARE DOOMED!" That really added a level of emotion to the game.

In closing, a narrator can do a large part for a game based on their efforts in making sure they have accurate updates and also exciting posts. The players feel and react to the energy that the narrators put into the game. Please don't sell it short.

[Mustiado]

I hate to do it since I did so much when I was younger, but I find myself getting seriously lost in RP games nowadays.

I have a hard time in my mind merging the goals of weaving a good story while trying to find the guilty parties. I tend to focus on one or the other.

[Freshmeat]

The Kami is another trick I use to keep players interested in the game even if they are just villagers. I want to reward players that pull off tricks and analyze other players.[/B]

This sounds a bit arbitrary. How can you gauge this as a narrator?

It's my opinion that tricks needn't necessarily be revealed once they've been pulled off. The best trick is one where your opponent, much less anyone else, even knows just what exactly happened and attributes any important kill or lynch to random luck. It's just a matter of keeping your pride in check. I'd hate to see a system where showmanship or bragging is mandatory to prove you've 'earned' your reward.

Similarly, analysis needn't always be revealed. Just infodumping the game thread is nearly always counterproductive for reasons that should be self-explanatory. In practice, the best days are those where wolves are lynched for the lamest reasons and the largest bandwagon only 'won' by a slight margin. Again, this sounds like a system where the only way to get your analysis reward is to make a showy and grand accusation.

Narrators may know a whole lot of things, but they can't read minds.

Who knows, maybe you'll even cause one of those spectacles Freshmeat likes.

Just a minor nitpick, but I didn't so much say that I liked spectacles as much that I feel that this is definitely something that draws peoples to games. People who otherwise might've gone inactive and gotten themselves autolynched a few days later.


@ Atreyu: Where narrations are concerned, I suppose your mileage may vary, although I suppose that some kind of intense tale could keep a few extra players interested. But this overlaps mostly with what's been said about RP earlier.

As for timely updates, okay - those are definitely important, if not an absolutely must if you want to keep people interested in a game.

[Shadowcaller]

This sounds a bit arbitrary. How can you gauge this as a narrator?

Well I think I mistelled the whole thing there.
The kami possess players that have done certain things in the game that is decided before the game have started.
So the narrator can't give the players rewards or anything if thats what you thought.

For example:

A player writes the word "hi" in the thread gets possessed by the Hi kami that can say hi to a person every night.

Not that there are any such kami in the game... but you get the point. The kami in the real game have certain requirements that are much harder to achieve, but they all have connections to what often "active" players do.

[Cristo Meyers]

As for timely updates, okay - those are definitely important, if not an absolutely must if you want to keep people interested in a game.

This is a big one for me. Nothing killed my interest in a game quicker than having to wait several days past when the day/night was supposed to end.

[evnafets]

This is a big one for me. Nothing killed my interest in a game quicker than having to wait several days past when the day/night was supposed to end.

Also agreed on that one.
Werewolf X almost foundered because of it.
Monty Python is lagging a little because of it.
Werewolf classic by contrast has an awesome ongoing narration by Zar Peter. If only I hadn't been killed on the second night...

Being a narrator/co-narrator as most people have found out is a BIG job. Particularly if you have multiple groups/roles. Even running a simple game like classic is rough.

One suggestion. Don't be afraid to right your own kill/death scenes. If you are on the way to a lynch, and can see the inevitable coming, write something yourself to contribute. That way you can really go out with a bang. The games I have had the most fun in is where I've been able to contribute in that manner. You can get some AWESOME lynch scenes that way, and the narrators normally don't mind at all. It saves them the trouble of having to write the scene themselves :-)

[Cristo Meyers]

I actively encouraged my players in Fears to write their own scene for just that purpose. Nothing keeps things on track and provides for great narration like having something to work with.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Being a narrator/co-narrator as most people have found out is a BIG job.

That's why I FEAR rome....

[Mordokai]

Being a narrator/co-narrator as most people have found out is a BIG job. Particularly if you have multiple groups/roles. Even running a simple game like classic is rough.

No kidding Two games and I felt washed out. Being a narrator is tough job, but I wouldn't trade it for a world It also helps you learn a great deal.

One suggestion. Don't be afraid to right your own kill/death scenes. If you are on the way to a lynch, and can see the inevitable coming, write something yourself to contribute. That way you can really go out with a bang. The games I have had the most fun in is where I've been able to contribute in that manner. You can get some AWESOME lynch scenes that way, and the narrators normally don't mind at all. It saves them the trouble of having to write the scene themselves :-)

I'm selfish because, I want to see my death scene written by the narrators. Most of them are awesome enough that I just want to see what they come up with. I think that's also the main reason why so little death scenes are written by players. They trust the narrators and want to see the scene written by them.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Rome Recruiting will end when 40 players have signed up.
So recruiting may go on longer then expected, sorry if this causes any discomfort.

[Nychta]

When I'm just a villager, not in contact with anyone:

I watch. I watch everything that goes on, who gets lynched, who's friends with who, who knows their stuff. Even if I can't influence this game much, I can always wait till the next game. I just want more experience.

Of course, if I get really frustrated that I'm not in contact with anyone (How many people have scried me and not even contacted me?) I rely on the narrations. They're epic win.