Ravnica:: City of Wolves! [game begins!]

[Darkcomet]

So...

Gruul.

Sold out the Selesnyans.

To Orzhov.

Who sold them out to Golgari? Because I know those two were working together to kill off the Conclave.

[Reinholdt]

So...

Gruul.

Sold out the Selesnyans.

To Orzhov.

Who sold them out to Golgari? Because I know those two were working together to kill off the Conclave.

Orzhov did once we contacted them.
So Gruul sort of sold them out to both.

[Darkcomet]

These interactions among people who would like each other dead confuse me.

[GAThraawn]

I have to agree with Rein. The Izzet more or less coasted through the whole game.

To the Selesnyans: You guys are supposed to be the guild that supports cooperation. I wouldn't have sold you guys out to the Orzhov if you didn't act so much like your Azorius allies that you wouldn't drop the names of.

Well, unfortunately for us, this is one of those games in which you can benefit greatly from knowing the other players, and having an idea as to how they play. ie. if they're lousy backstabbers, or reasonably trustworthy, etc. I didn't know you nearly well enough to know whether you would keep your word, or bleed us for info and then sell us out for more info from other guilds, and it didn't really help that the only input I was getting from my teammates was that they didn't want their names revealed.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Reinholdt: for how long, if at all, did you think I was Golgari?

This game was both an interesting and fun example of the prisoner's dilemma, and I enjoyed playing it with you all.

[Darkcomet]

Odd, considering you sold out Twila to Azorious. Sounds like alliance favoritism to me, but I digress.

[Reinholdt]

These interactions among people who would like each other dead confuse me.

Heh. *looks*
The only guild I didn't manage to cut a deal with was Rakdos.
This is largely because they didn't contact me and partially because I spent the whole game not knowing a single one, so I couldn't contact them.

@ Thraawn. Not very long at all. After your first PM, I got back the list from Mordokai, and realized you were trying to cover your tracks. Very clever, but it only convinced me you were Selesnyan.

[Darkcomet]

If anyone's wondering just why I think we earned our victory, consider this:

Orzhov thought I was one of their enemies. Had I not contacted Mordokai, he would not have bailed me out from you guys and I might have died.

I think Skippy was under suspicion of something too.

[Reinholdt]

If anyone's wondering just why I think we earned our victory, consider this:

Orzhov thought I was one of their enemies. Had I not contacted Mordokai, he would not have bailed me out from you guys and I might have died.

I think Skippy was under suspicion of something too.

True. But everyone knew Mordokai because he did something clever and revealed himself early (kudos to you Mordokai). I know he was paranoid that trading information with me might get him killed, but everyone pretty much knew he was safe.

I'm not going to pretend you didn't have to do things, or that you didn't influence the game. You did. I'm just saying it would've be pretty hard for you to lose.

[GAThraawn]

Well, it's a balancing act. Selling each side out to the other enough to benefit yourself, but not enough to actually lose valuable allies. Because, as much as some of the guilds wanted to work together for common goals, in the end, only one guild can win (DC: just don't). There has to be backstabbing, and everyone has to expect that going in. That's why I was being so cagey, Ganurath, because I knew you were going to sell me out to someone. You'd be crazy not to. You were trying to win, after all.

Now, it may have been that the correct strategy for this game was more sharing and less mistrust, but given that I didn't have a good handle on all that going in, it seemed better to play it safe than risk disaster. And we did come close to winning.

Another thing that surprised me was some guild's focus on taking out those who were trying to kill them, which seemed like a waste of effort to me. Unless you got rid of all four of them, you weren't really doing anything other than another guild's job for them. I learned a few Golgari and Orzhov names fairly early, but I didn't see any point in trying to pursue them.

[Reinholdt]

Another thing that surprised me was some guild's focus on taking out those who were trying to kill them, which seemed like a waste of effort to me. Unless you got rid of all four of them, you weren't really doing anything other than another guild's job for them. I learned a few Golgari and Orzhov names fairly early, but I didn't see any point in trying to pursue them.

This was a major early mistake on our part . Kudos for being clever enough to see it.

[Haruki-kun]

Hmm... I was sure Jontom would be Gruul.

Apparently, I was wrong, my death wasn't necessary for him. It would just be a happy coincidence. Well played.

[Ganurath]

Another thing that surprised me was some guild's focus on taking out those who were trying to kill them, which seemed like a waste of effort to me. Unless you got rid of all four of them, you weren't really doing anything other than another guild's job for them. I learned a few Golgari and Orzhov names fairly early, but I didn't see any point in trying to pursue them.

That's another reason I sold you out: Since I was focused on killing the Rakdos and Azorius (the latter of which I thought Mustiado was) I figured the best way to get the Orzhov out of my hair (since I could contact them and none of my allies were hunting them) was to appease them with some info they could use and the possibility of more in the future.

Boy, I had fun that last night phase though. If it weren't for mixing up Haruki and Mustiado, I'm pretty sure I could have written the results for Festy.

[Shadowcaller]

That's another reason I sold you out: Since I was focused on killing the Rakdos and Azorius (the latter of which I thought Mustiado was) I figured the best way to get the Orzhov out of my hair (since I could contact them and none of my allies were hunting them) was to appease them with some info they could use and the possibility of more in the future.

Boy, I had fun that last night phase though. If it weren't for mixing up Haruki and Mustiado, I'm pretty sure I could have written the results for Festy.

See? Betrayal never pays off

[Ganurath]

See? Betrayal never pays off

How many Gruul were killed by the Orzhov?

[Deathslayer7]

And Deathslayer? Tricked you too. I was only tricking you into getting off of the Izzet League. Consider it payback for USB.

I would have you know that Mordokai or Zar Peter were going to be the target for my night kill.

and tricked me, eh not so much. I baned myself most nights because i thought some people might come after me.

and when you said you would get back to me about helping me kill the Orzhovs off, I knew you wouldn't, so I made different arrangements.

[Jontom Xire]

Hi all.

Some credits and corrections. First, I don't think I ever gave Darkcomet or any other Izzet any Orzhov names, so that was wrong of DarkComet.

Second, Reinholdt it actually wasn't you who convinced me finally that Mustiado was the last Simic - it was Mustiado. Thanks Mustiado. I appreciate it.

Thirdly, Ganurath, what were you playing at? Did you think Mustiado was actually Azorius or something? The main reason I didn't believe Mustiado was Simic for so long was because Ganurath was handing me the win by voting for him, so I was sure there was some deceit involved. I would have been happy with a joint win. I actually gave you some excellent advice for the previous night which, if you had followed it, would have brought you that much closer to victory and might even have snatched it from under my nose.

Lastly, GAThraawn, you should have been more trusting. Ganurath was and almost won. Reinholdt was and survived. You got wiped out. It wasn't just me, I know that your other allies were getting a bit fed up with you too.

We had some lucky breaks, a lot of help from our allies, and some good guessing of guilds. I loved this game a lot. Definitely my favourite.

Just out of curiosity, apart from Haruki-kun, who DIDN'T know I was Boros by the end. I was fairly certain I got scried early on and would have been surprised if the result of that scry didn't get passed around all my enemies fairly instantly.

[Ganurath]

Did you think Mustiado was actually Azorius or something?

...Azorius (the latter of which I thought Mustiado was)

Does that answer your question?

[Jontom Xire]

Ahah. I thought that was the case. Which was why I never passed on Reinholdt's or Mustiado's information.

:)

Tried to deceive me and ended up just deceiving yourself.

But I was fairly sure you were trying to deceive me. From as early as the previous night. And despite that I gave you my best advice.

A lot of people were claiming you were selling Boros names to the Azorius as well. Not sure I believed that, but either way I didn't care because it wasn't going to affect the outcome.

After all I was doing my best to make sure I won, even if it meant you didn't, although I was happy to share the win.

[Murska]

This sounded like a very interesting game and I'm sort of hoping that next time you let me play aswell.

[Mordokai]

I would have you know that Mordokai or Zar Peter were going to be the target for my night kill.

I get Zar Peter, but why me?

Well, fun game. Beeing neutral had it's perks and coming out early probably helped surviving me great deal. Side effect was, I didn't have as much information as others, since nobody would give me too much, cause they were probably afraid I'd sell them out on first chance.

Well, if nothing else, it was fun being messenger boy, right Reinholdt?

Had fun, but if I'd play again, I wouldn't mind beeing in a guild that's not neutral. As things stand, I agree, Izzets didn't have it very hard for them winning.

[Uncle Festy]

@JX: A quick scan of my records says that you were never scried. In fact, I think you were only ever a target of three night actions – two banes and a kill.
I might go back and write up all the night actions, but that would require work.


Anyways, narrator comment time!

The Izzet: Yeah, totally overpowered. I really liked what they did to the game – they were messengers/wildcards/traitors to everyone, but their win condition was a cakewalk. They'll need some changing for the next game.

Jontom Xire: I must say, you managed to manipulate everyone quite nicely into handing you the win. Congrats to you and your team!
I'm curious, how accurate was that total list of players you had?

Inactivity: Grah! Festy smash inactive people!! Despite the fact that, through night 7, there were a possible 13 night actions on a given night, I usually got 9. After Shas and Atreyu died, respectively, I never got another action from either guild (except for the last night, when I got the kill from Dr. Bath). I must say, I don't think I ever got all the possible night actions. Also, three (almost four) autolynches within the Rakdos? Totally insane.

Win conditions: I think the lack of structure there was a lot of fun. Thanks for those, Gaurath! One of the things most people missed was that it was possible for two guilds to manufacture a joint win. If two guilds won on the same night, I would just give the win to the first relevant night action sent in. However, if two guilds shared an enemy, had that guild as their final target, and killed that guild off… Well, I'd be forced to give both of them the win.
EDIT: Oh right, I remember now. Everyone took eliminating the people who wanted them dead far too seriously. That was a big mistake, which was facilitated with JX's analysis at the beginning of the game counting targets from both ends as equal enemies.

Scries: Those, in my opinion, took a lot of the ability to hide out of the game. You couldn't claim another guild, because then, within three nights, at most, the guild would be able to call you on that claim. I don't want to eliminate scries entirely, but I feel it would be good for the game if there were a few disguise actions in there somewhere.

I feel like there was something else I wanted to say, but I can't think of it right now.

Survey:

1. What did you think of the game, overall?
2. What did you think of the crunch as a whole?
3. What did you think of the Izzet?
4. How would you suggest powering them down?
5. What did you think of the other win conditions?
6. How would you add disguises to the game?
7. What did you think of the setting?
8. How were my narrations? (feel free to give constructive criticism)
9. Were you overly bothered by my constant delays due to my tight schedule?
10. Overall, how did I do as a narrator?

Anyways, that's it, for now. Ravnica II:: Wolfpact probably won't start for a while, as I've already got a couple game ideas lined up, starting with a new game in January. See you all there!

[Madmal]

For the Simic, mostly Mustiado, well, can't say much there. I was somewhat afraid I had managed to piss you guys off for getting Mal lynched.

I think i was the most active one of the Simic so far. Mustiado seemed absent, Piratemonk was killed early, and catseye... and our best allies were wiped out pretty early. If i recall correctly, this is the first time i've actuall been up "in charge" of a team on ww, and college and my filled pm box (today's at 97%...) kinda slowed me in terms of distributing information among the rest.

of course i was pissed when i got lynched, but i was expecting all this kind of shadowy deals from everyone, and i knew that eventually, i wouldn't be cut up to it. I was actually more pissed because it seemed some people lynched me thinking i was a Dimir. c'me on! i was a freaking virusoid!

Well, i'm definately not cut for these kind of ww games. either i get too trusting or too isolated. Also, this is definately a game where you don't want to get auto'd.

What did you think of the game, overall? nice idea, but you need to research more.
What did you think of the crunch as a whole? complicated, as i thought i'd be when i got this idea in my head (it came to me months ago, along with a ww game of Fullmetal, but as you can see, the road between "think" and "do", is quite long for me)
What did you think of the Izzet? they're the guild i identifywith the most, and i'm glad they won. note: this doesn't mean i'm glad the izzet players won.
How would you suggest powering them down? make them a part of the fray, not the neutral party.
What did you think of the other win conditions? no comments there.
How would you add disguises to the game? Items, perhaps?
What did you think of the setting? I love the setting, is the last one i buyed before i stopped buying M:tG cards,i have the Dissension book, and i'm currently looking for the previous ones. i've even gotten the idea to make a rpg game out of it.
How were my narrations? (feel free to give constructive criticism) the narrations were fine, but you need to research more.
Were you overly bothered by my constant delays due to my tight schedule? HELL YES. and you seemed like the only one handling the entire game.
Overall, how did I do as a narrator? i'm giving you 2.5 stars.

[Mordokai]

Survey:

1. What did you think of the game, overall?
   
   Fun one. It's nice to have a little change, where there are no clear good guys. From what I heard, the whole thing had a lot of backstage going ons, and I imagine those can be quite fun. But at times also taxing. All in all, I had a good time with the game.
   
2. What did you think of the crunch as a whole?
   
   Meh, it was ok. If by crunch you mean balance, it was ok. If you mean something else, I'm not sure what to say.
   
3. What did you think of the Izzet?
   
   Izzet rule! But seriously, like it was said already, too easy to win, not enough backslash if they become too bold.
   
4. How would you suggest powering them down?
   
   Give them a chance to ally with another guild, them effectively becoming a member of that guild that counts towards their winning condition? Alternatively, keep them neutral but tone down their powers or give them no powers at all. Four extra votes still present hell a lot of advantage, if somebody can harness it.
   
5. What did you think of the other win conditions?
   
   *shrugs* What's to think about it? Kill two guilds while not being killed. Seems straight enough for me. Perhaps you could add extra objectives, but I think that would complicate everything needlessly.
   
6. How would you add disguises to the game?
   
   No good idea. Disguise action? That can be used with any other actions, but no more often than once every two or three nights?
   
7. What did you think of the setting?
   
   Unfamiliar to me, so I can't say much about it. I liked what I saw however and it is quite an intriguing one.
   
8. How were my narrations? (feel free to give constructive criticism)
   
   I imagine I would enjoy them much more if I would be familiar with the setting. As things stand, they were good, but nothing special for me because of the aforementioned reason.
   
9. Were you overly bothered by my constant delays due to my tight schedule?
   
   Wouldn't say overly but it was sometimes bothersome.
   
10. Overall, how did I do as a narrator?
    
    You did great.
    

[Darkcomet]

Survey:

2. What did you think of the game, overall?
   It was fuuuuun.
   
3. What did you think of the crunch as a whole?
   For the most part, good.
   
4. What did you think of the Izzet?
   Great, great fun to be. Though I do agree the backlash against us should have been greater, considering all the selling out I did.
   
5. How would you suggest powering them down?
   Dunno, but I like their roles, and having someone to target/want to kill them would be harder to deal with as Izzet than others.
   
6. What did you think of the other win conditions?
   Went pretty well.
   
7. How would you add disguises to the game?
   I could have sworn I used one of those on DS7... Dunno.
   
8. What did you think of the setting?
   Awesome.
   
9. How were my narrations? (feel free to give constructive criticism)
   Ranging from epic to hilarious.
   
10. Were you overly bothered by my constant delays due to my tight schedule?
    Nah, I did try to give helpful reminders though.
    
11. Overall, how did I do as a narrator?
    Quite well, and your co-narrator was out for a good part of the time.

[Murska]

Also, three (almost four) autolynches within the Rakdos? Totally insane.

Add to that a day-1 lynch. Now, tell me, did we have a chance?

Yeah.

[Darkcomet]

Not to mention I sold out your last member to Boros.

[Uncle Festy]

Of course, he was probably gonna get auto'd on the last day, so…

[Darkcomet]

I still sold him out, though. Thanks for ratting him out to me, Deathslayer!

[Ganurath]

But I was fairly sure you were trying to deceive me. From as early as the previous night. And despite that I gave you my best advice.

I actually was trying to work with you. You were a good ally, and a joint victory was possible. I'm just a control freak and wanted to control the strategy. I personally thought a joint victory would have been easier (and, given what Festy says, would only have been possible) if we saved Fanboy for last.

What did you think of the game, overall?
Me likey. Plenty of intrigue, and since there aren't really any "Civilian" roles anyone has the potential to be a mover and/or shaker in the guilds.
What did you think of the crunch as a whole?
See above.
What did you think of the Izzet?
Giving a majority of the members sucky powers (The Djinn's Replicate ability was good) does not make up for the easy win condition. Now, if they had the win condition that no other guild could have more members than them at game's end...
How would you suggest powering them down?
See above.
What did you think of the other win conditions?
I wrote them, didn't I?
How would you add disguises to the game?
Give each guild a Guildmaster role. In Ravnican fluff, Guildmasters are immune to mind reading, so the Guildmaster role could be immune to scrying: If scried, they come up as though there was scry interference.
What did you think of the setting?
...Can I co-narrate the next one?
How were my narrations? (feel free to give constructive criticism)
I was slightly bugged by the offhandedness of Aemoh's death scene, but other than that you did well.
Were you overly bothered by my constant delays due to my tight schedule?
Constant delays? What now?
Overall, how did I do as a narrator?
8.2/10

[Reinholdt]

Yuck. Hate surveys. Pass.

Jontom, I gave out your name to my other allies. Had to convince them my information was accurate. As well as give them something of value. I figured they'd scry you soon enough if I didn't. Surprisingly they never targeted you again. *shrug*

I did not give out any other Boros names, though I knew all of them at one point. I was specifically guarded on that.