The Easy Exploit Compendium

[dextercorvia]

Continuing with the abuse... nothing says unconscious (and thus helpless) characters can't take actions either. "knocked out" has no rules definition, therefore it obviously has no meaning at all! Since they're unconscious, the disabled rules don't apply either, because you specifically have to be conscious to be disabled!

Dying characters, however, specifically can't take actions, but that only applies from -1 to -9.

Blech. I can't believe I just wrote any of that.

Unconscious --> Helpless --> Dex=0 --> Paralyzed --> Can't move or act.

[Radar]

A bit more subtle exploit:
Live My Nightmare feat let's you attack anyone, who scries on you. The wording is, that you make a choice, whether to punish them or not - this means, you have to be aware of every successful scry attempt made on you. It's totally worth the exposore to Phantasmal Killer.

[The Winter King]

I have one.

Ever had a friend who died and you didnt want to spend the cash for a resurection? try Heal* out, it will bring you back from -10hp because nothing says the dead cant be healed.

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.

[Shadowknight12]

I have one.

Ever had a friend who died and you didnt want to spend the cash for a resurection? try Heal* out, it will bring you back from -10hp because nothing says the dead cant be healed.

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.

Sadly, "Dead" is a condition that Heal does not cure.

[Lateral]

Sadly, "Dead" is a condition that Heal does not cure.

Hmm... Is there a way to share your Iron Heart Surge with someone else?

[Shadowknight12]

Hmm... Is there a way to share your Iron Heart Surge with someone else?

There must be. I demand it to be so. BY CROM.

[The Glyphstone]

that could be risky - using IHS to end the condition "has a dead friend" could backfire horribly. Maybe it'll turn them into a zombie, or make them a dead enemy instead.

[Shadowknight12]

that could be risky - using IHS to end the condition "has a dead friend" could backfire horribly. Maybe it'll turn them into a zombie, or make them a dead enemy instead.

It could be even worse. It could address the root of the issue and make you forget absolutely everything about the guy. He is no longer your dead friend. He's just a dead nobody now.

[Lateral]

that could be risky - using IHS to end the condition "has a dead friend" could backfire horribly. Maybe it'll turn them into a zombie, or make them a dead enemy instead.

Well, 'dead' is a condition, and 'alive' is not, so 'alive' must be the default. So, if IHS can remove the 'dead' condition, he won't be dead anymore. Of course, it'll need to be combined with a heal, so that he won't immediately die again from being below -10 HP.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, 'dead' is a condition, and 'alive' is not, so 'alive' must be the default. So, if IHS can remove the 'dead' condition, he won't be dead anymore. Of course, it'll need to be combined with a heal, so that he won't immediately die again from being below -10 HP.

Yeah, but Iron Heart Surge is a personal effect. It can't end 'dead' because you aren't afflicted by 'dead', it's your friend who is 'dead'. All it can end is the condition 'my friend is dead', which has outcomes other than 'my friend is alive'.

[Flickerdart]

But what if the condition is "my friend isn't alive"?

[The Glyphstone]

But what if the condition is "my friend isn't alive"?

Same thing - it could end the condition by making him an enemy who isn't alive, or some random shmuck you care nothing about who isn't alive.

[Flickerdart]

Same thing - it could end the condition by making him an enemy who isn't alive, or some random shmuck you care nothing about who isn't alive.

The issue isn't that your friend is dead, though. The issue is that the condition (your friend is alive) is not met, and that's what you're IHSing away.

[Shadowknight12]

The issue isn't that your friend is dead, though. The issue is that the condition (your friend is alive) is not met, and that's what you're IHSing away.

He's saying that there are other conditions you could accidentally IHS away. Like that guy being your friend.

[Lateral]

Yeah, but Iron Heart Surge is a personal effect. It can't end 'dead' because you aren't afflicted by 'dead', it's your friend who is 'dead'. All it can end is the condition 'my friend is dead', which has outcomes other than 'my friend is alive'.

Well, yeah. That's why I was wondering if there was a way that you could figure out how to share your IHS with a friend, the way you can share spells with allies or something. Like, you IHS away being dead- it doesn't affect you, but it makes your ally not dead anymore since it affects him too. At least until he dies from being under -10, which is what Heal is for.

[Flickerdart]

He's saying that there are other conditions you could accidentally IHS away. Like that guy being your friend.

But your friend still isn't alive so that doesn't actually work.

[Shadowknight12]

But your friend still isn't alive so that doesn't actually work.

It worked. Because he is no longer your friend. If you said "That guy is dead" then sure, you'd have a better chance of it working. But "your friend" is something that can change. "Your friend is dead" is no longer true, because he's no longer your friend.

[Tokiko Mima]

I like that.

"Nooooo!! My beloved wife Matilda is dead!!!"

*IRON HEART SURGE!*

"What is this falling from the sky...? Divorce papers?!?"

[Siosilvar]

Unconscious --> Helpless --> Dex=0 --> Paralyzed --> Can't move or act.

"Treated as" Dex 0 followed by the clarification "(-5 modifier)" could be interpreted that way, or that it's treated as dexterity of 0 for modifier purposes only.

[/devil's advocate] I was just pointing out the ridiculousness of suggesting that death effects don't kill you if you can survive below -10. As of core, there was no way to do that, and the interaction should be obvious - just replace -10 with -(whatever you die at).

Easy exploits, let's see... the Commoner Railgun is a common (no pun intended) one, and runs along the same lines as the horse one earlier, except each commoner readies an action to take an item from the person previous and pass it to the next.

Negative Levels for Everyone
Fell Drain + Sonic Snap = 1 negative level from a 2nd-level slot.
Fell Drain + Magic Missile + up to 5 targets = 1 negative level per target, from a 3rd-level slot.

For comparison, Enervation is a 4th level spell that gives 2.5 negative levels to a single target.

[Jack_Simth]

*please note it must be Heal and not other healing spells as heal does not have the pesky "when used on a living creature" clause.

Doesn't have to. "Cannot benefit from normal or magical healing" is part of the Dead condition.

Easy exploit... has anyone mentiond doing the wight thing?

Spoiler

Show

Find a critter with a source of negative levels that have the possibility of resulting in level loss (you may want to Command the critter for better control).
Get a single negative level from the critter
Voluntarily fail the Fort save against it becoming level loss.
This sets you at the half-way point between your prior level and your current level.
Do some crafting with the loose XP that implies.
Cast Restoration on yourself, restoring you to your previous level. Congrats: Almost-XP-Free crafting, for the cost of a Restoration spell and some funky shenanigans.

[Flickerdart]

It worked. Because he is no longer your friend. If you said "That guy is dead" then sure, you'd have a better chance of it working. But "your friend" is something that can change. "Your friend is dead" is no longer true, because he's no longer your friend.

The condition isn't "your friend is dead", it's "your friend is not alive". If he becomes an enemy, your friend is still not alive.

[Shadowknight12]

The condition isn't "your friend is dead", it's "your friend is not alive". If he becomes an enemy, your friend is still not alive.

"My friend is not alive" --> "That dude, who is not alive, is also not my friend" --> "Problem solved."

[Necroticplague]

Step1:Be a water elemental warblade.
Step2:Walk onto land.
Step3:Iron heart surge.
Step4:???
Step5:laugh

[Shadowknight12]

Step1:Be a water elemental warblade.
Step2:Walk onto land.
Step3:Iron heart surge.
Step4:???
Step5:laugh

I doubt we'll have time to get two of every animal on an arc by the time IHS resolves.

[dextercorvia]

Negative Levels for Everyone
Fell Drain + Sonic Snap = 1 negative level from a 1st-level slot.
Fell Drain + Magic Missile + up to 5 targets = 1 negative level per target, from a 2nd-level slot.

I like Fell Drain Hail of Stones, but my turn to nit pick you ; Fell Drain is a +2 metamagic. Fortunately a human wizard with no flaws can take Metamagic School Focus alongside Fell Drain. If Dragon is allowed, there is also Easy Metamagic(Fell Drain).

[Siosilvar]

I like Fell Drain Hail of Stones, but my turn to nit pick you ; Fell Drain is a +2 metamagic. Fortunately a human wizard with no flaws can take Metamagic School Focus alongside Fell Drain. If Dragon is allowed, there is also Easy Metamagic(Fell Drain).

+2? *checks*

...so it is.

Edit'd!

[Flame of Anor]

Easy exploit... has anyone mentiond doing the wight thing?

Spoiler

Show

Find a critter with a source of negative levels that have the possibility of resulting in level loss (you may want to Command the critter for better control).
Get a single negative level from the critter
Voluntarily fail the Fort save against it becoming level loss.
This sets you at the half-way point between your prior level and your current level.
Do some crafting with the loose XP that implies.
Cast Restoration on yourself, restoring you to your previous level. Congrats: Almost-XP-Free crafting, for the cost of a Restoration spell and some funky shenanigans.

Ooh! And if you've got a cleric with 5 Restorations handy, you can cast 5 Wish spells in succession for a +5 inherent bonus!

[Jack_Simth]

Ooh! And if you've got a cleric with 5 Restorations handy, you can cast 5 Wish spells in succession for a +5 inherent bonus!

Doesn't actually work out so hot - they would have to be in "immediate succession" - however, he could, say, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, use the five scrolls of Wish to get you a +5 Inherent bonus.

[dextercorvia]

Shadow Landscape + Explosive Spell in a plains of forest setting will actually push all enemies that fail the reflex save several hundred feet.

[Flame of Anor]

Doesn't actually work out so hot - they would have to be in "immediate succession" - however, he could, say, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, Scribe a scroll of Wish, recover XP, use the five scrolls of Wish to get you a +5 Inherent bonus.

I always thought it meant, like, in the same day.

Shadow Landscape + Explosive Spell in a plains of forest setting will actually push all enemies that fail the reflex save several hundred feet.

Do I detect the locate city bomb's little brother?