Got a ZvP late game strategy to run by you guys: Ultralisk/Mutalisk
I know it lacks the sheer power of Infestor/Broodlord, but is far more mobile. They can't harass you well, since the mutas can deal with small forces on their own, ultras are great against every Protoss ground unit except Immortals (which mutas own hardcore) and there aren't alot of Toss units that are actually good against mutas in a straight fight. The only thing I could think of that would knife through this composition is immortal/pheonix, which requires two seperate groups of upgrades and massive expenditures of gas.
Further, this composition is easily acquired after a Muta/ling mid-game, since you now have a ton of bases and you have a ton of mutas. Toss shouldn't have the gas to get up any reasonable response and the build is good versus Toss's power units like Colossi, Void Rays, and High Templar (muta micro ftw).
As evidence, I submit this game. Guy called me a nerd and told me to get a life after I beat him.
That game was horrible. From the protoss side. He never once pushed out and let a zerg macro for 18 minutes without any problem. You had twice his income for most of that game. You almost could have won with a drone rush if it wasn't for the colossus :P
Archon-Zealot will demolish Ultra-Muta. Zealots are super cost effective vs ultras, and archons are really good too. Archons are also pretty dang effective vs mutas, especially if they keep a couple of high templars with storms around. They then can easily sprinkle in a couple pheonix on the way to mothership for the slightly nerfed but still fairly effective archon toilet.
Just face it, ultralisks will never be useful out of some very select ZvZs :P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabenson
Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.
Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.
Since the snipe nerf, I've seen ultras used in TvZ to an ok degree, with infestor support and ling back bone. Of course, anything with infestor support is pretty ok compared to not having any. Map choice is really important with that, though.
That game was horrible. From the protoss side. He never once pushed out and let a zerg macro for 18 minutes without any problem. You had twice his income for most of that game. You almost could have won with a drone rush if it wasn't for the colossus :P
Archon-Zealot will demolish Ultra-Muta. Zealots are super cost effective vs ultras, and archons are really good too. Archons are also pretty dang effective vs mutas, especially if they keep a couple of high templars with storms around. They then can easily sprinkle in a couple pheonix on the way to mothership for the slightly nerfed but still fairly effective archon toilet.
Just face it, ultralisks will never be useful out of some very select ZvZs :P
Funny, just had a 2v2 in which my zealot/archon and some of my ally's MMM hit his ultra/roach/ling. I can't remember if he had muta or not. My side got -destroyed-. He walked away with like, 5+ ultras and just proceeded to wreck the rest of our stuff. Strangely, ultras are just plain brutal to deal with for toss if you don't have immortal up. Which, granted, shouldn't be hard to do in normal games, but still.
edit: pretty sure the reason zealot isn't a great choice is that whole 6 armor thing. taking 12 damage out of each zealot means it takes a long time for that ultra to die. Granted, zealots still slow those things down quite well, but they'll soak a lot of punishment before going down.
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I think it is 2 or 3 full upgraded zealots against a fully upgraded ultra to kill one. So similar or the same mineral cost, none of the gas. Mind you those numbers were a long time ago, and it may be different now but I don't think that that has been changed.
Bomber vs Ostojiy at red bull battlegrounds group C was insane ultra nydus play. Amazing game.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabenson
Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.
Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.
I think it is 2 or 3 full upgraded zealots against a fully upgraded ultra to kill one. So similar or the same mineral cost, none of the gas. Mind you those numbers were a long time ago, and it may be different now but I don't think that that has been changed.
Bomber vs Ostojiy at red bull battlegrounds group C was insane ultra nydus play. Amazing game.
Including shields for the zealots or no? That is a notable gas cost, and even when I'm really good on my upgrades, I generally have a hard time getting more than 1 or 2 shields, so if that's the deciding factor, it's a good one to know.
edit: Okay, yea, Bomber vs Ostojiy g1 was -amazingggggg-. Almost makes me want to get better with terran for more of that sweet, sweet mule action.
I was working on a list called
99 Uses for a MULE
I think I stopped at 40ish, at which point many of those uses began to sort of repeat.
My personal favorite is still dropping MULE's onto a Siege Tank line and watching them blow themselves up trying to kill the poor thing. It costs you nothing and makes for an excellent annoyance for your opponent.
"Why do I hear Siege Tanks firing but I'm not getting a warning?"
*Look over at the wreckage of a bunch of Siege Tanks, no trace of the MULE is left*
...aaaaaaaand THAT is when you send in your bio ball.
Or, time the drop and your troops so that they get the cooldown time of the shot to close the distance with the tank line. It buys them an extra second or two at most, but that's still a second or two for the cost of 1 MULE.
And MULE's are very good at backing up Thor's, giving them just that little extra bit of survival.
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~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
You ever get one of those sweet, sweet games where your opponents try to proxy, only to find out you built a hatchery behind their base? I got one of those.
I've found Banshees get less useful as you go from gold into plat, though.
You ever get one of those sweet, sweet games where your opponents try to proxy, only to find out you built a hatchery behind their base? I got one of those.
I've found Banshees get less useful as you go from gold into plat, though.
Against which race?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alabenson
Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.
Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.
Terran and Toss mostly, although they get more limited against Zerg as well.
Most Zerg players won't put up AA until they start getting Mutas, which is just a little while after you've got banshees. Against a B/S/G Zerg, you can probably kill off the Queen, all their drones, and deal significant damage to the main base (Or kill the main to screw with tech) before they can kill the banshees. Going into Plat, they usually have the spores up, which stilldie easy, but then you've got Mutas and an overseer to deal with.
Why didn't he use the mothership to cloak his buildings a the end there? Zealots and DT don't detect. And observers can be vortexed, if that desperate a situation is being had.
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Originally Posted by Solaris
If it helps, think of me as the Agent from Serenity. Just not that good a fighter. Also, I have a mustache.
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Originally Posted by kpenguin
I'm probably hilarious far off, aren't I?
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Originally Posted by Telonius
This is not... the greatest story Tolkien ever wrote. No... This is just a tribute.
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Originally Posted by Coidzor
Bah. You've got to believe in the you that believes in the heart of the cards to summon the 7 dragon balls to be the very best like no one ever was!
.; Many thanks piled on top of other thanks with a martini on top to Cuthalion for custom avatar.
Was "Never, Never, Never give up."
Right after my ally had quit and they said "Just leave".
That was my reply, to which both opponents tipped their hat and got back to the game. Went on another 20 minutes.
One of my uni mates, HighgaiN, has qualified for the WCG UK qualifiers. In his first round he's been matched against.... DeMuslim.. Better luck next year! XD
One of my uni mates, HighgaiN, has qualified for the WCG UK qualifiers. In his first round he's been matched against.... DeMuslim.. Better luck next year! XD
I find it largely ironic that your post is directly below Acanous quoting Churchill. Namely, suggesting an opposite attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acanous
Was "Never, Never, Never give up."
Right after my ally had quit and they said "Just leave".
That was my reply, to which both opponents tipped their hat and got back to the game. Went on another 20 minutes.
Just saying. It made me chuckle a bit.
Good luck to your friend. I never figured for a minute that DRG would beat MarineKingPrime last MLG, but there it was. Or that Leenok would win MLG his first time out. Stranger things have happened.
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~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
Speaking of, I'm in the Canada Qualifiers next week.
Don't expect to win, not with THAT many Masters+ playing, but i'll give it my best. If anyone could point me to some good strategies to practice, that'd be appreciated.
Played my first game of starcraft in a long time the other day. 4v4 against 4 easy computer ais with 3 of my buddies. I am SO out of practise. Got randomed into zerg and I didn't expand until about 8 minutes at something like 22 food count.... NOOB! :P
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I am very sad.
