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2012-06-15, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-15 at 07:11 PM.
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2012-06-15, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
So far as rituals go, I definitely recommend this approach I've house ruled:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188861
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2012-06-15, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
I just wrote a post on my blog about Magic Sword. Its worth reading.
Looks great. I shall draw from your house rule when designing the ritual system.
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2012-06-15, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
Also, as for secondary ability scores for schools, here's my ideas for what would work best for each...
Enchantment: Charisma. This one is kinda obvious since enchantment spells deal most with social interaction and similar things. This is a no brainier, really. I mean, what kind of enchanter can't manipulate people. This just fits, and in 4e enchanters made use of charisma and social skills a lot so this makes a very nice nod to the 4e enchanter.
Illusion: Dexterity. Why? Because despite 4e having illusionist mages be wis secondary, Illusion always seemed to be the school most associated with trickery and deception. Thus, to shake things up I thought it would be interesting to make illusionists "trickster mages" not much unlike a beguiler from 3.5e. Dexterity is used for many "trickster" skills such as stealth and slight of hand and since a wizard can now pick up these skills due to your new skill system, it just seems to make sense for illusionist to be dex-based to use such skills.(Also, class bonuses to stealth and slight of hand are probably good skills to give a bonus to if schools will give skill bonuses.)
Necromancy: Charisma. Why? For a nod back to older editions of D&D. Out of all the ability scores, charisma is the one most associated with Necromancy. In 3.5e the Dread Necromancer uses cha as a casting stat. Rebuking is based off of cha. Heck, undead even used charisma for con checks and many, many other uses. Also, necromancers being good manipulators of people fits very, very well with their usually villainous roll.
Conjuration: Constitution. If conjuration will have the bulk of summoning powers, then this makes the most mechanical sense as higher con means harder to kill summons. In addition, the 4e summoner was con-secondary, and this would be a very nice nod to the 4e summoner fluff-wise.
Divination: Wisdom. This is, again, painfully obvious fluff wise. Divination reveals information from the future, and gives the wizard INSIGHT into events. Divination essentially reveals to the wizard wisdom, which makes wis the perfect secondary for divination fluff wise. I don't know why, but wisdom just really seems to fit divination for me.
Transmutation: Constitution. Lets face it, if your going to mutate yourself, transform yourself into a monster and use magic to mess with your body on a regular basis it probably makes sense for you to have a healthy body. Otherwise your chances of surviving such things would probably be slim. Con just fits transmutation like wisdom fits divination.
Evocation: Dexterity. This one was difficult for me to think of. Evocation has never really been associated with an ability score. However, it is associated with blasting, combat and damage dealing, and thus I felt dexterity was appropriate. An Evoker to me is a "battle wizard" who uses magic primarily for combat, and since you said you did not want wizards to be good at melee(so strength secondary is out of the picture.) dexterity fits the "combat mage" roll best. I mean, if I where a mage focused on being effective in combat I'd want to be able to dodge attacks well, move quickly across the battlefield and start the fight first.
Abjuration: Wisdom. Again, this one was kinda difficult for me to decide. Abjuration has never really been tied to any ability score theme-wise. However, since abjuration is all about defense and counterspelling, wisdom was the best fit for me. Somebody with high wisdom would be more likely to realize that they should always be ready to defend themselves and have contingencies for when things go wrong, and as a result wisdom thus seemed fitting for abjuration. However, if you have a better idea for a score for this school I'm all ears.Last edited by Giegue; 2012-06-15 at 08:06 PM.
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2012-06-15, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-15 at 08:06 PM.
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2012-06-16, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
First off, no secondary abilities should overlap with the primary unless you want to kludge in a fix like using Dex or half of Intelligence in place of Cha/Wis/Con/Str for Will or Fortitude.
Third, my take on the schools and their secondaries where they deviate from the above:
Illusion: Charisma. I don't feel this needs explanation.
Necromancy: Constitution or Charisma should work for this one; force of will or force of spirit.
Evocation: Constitution. I'd always imagined wizards from this school tapping into both physical and mental reserves to invoke huge blasts of eviscerating power.Last edited by Surrealistik; 2012-06-16 at 02:01 PM.
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2012-06-16, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
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2012-06-17, 06:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
I personally prefer Cha over Con for Necromancy. Mainly because of the fact I feel a Necromancer should be a good manipulator seeing the roll necromancers usually play, and as you said, the fluff fits. Also, Surrealistik, I do like your take on the Necromancer that's in your sig, and when we do get to working on making the features I think your necromancer could be a good starting point, though we will have to make it less "leader' and more "controller" and probably will do away with necrofocus and other exclusive mechanics for the sake of streamlining the school/class.
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2012-06-17, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
It's true that certain mechanics would need to be shaved from an archetype that shares its class with so many others. That said, I definitely see a Necro as being primary controller, secondary leader.
Second, I'm not so sure I see why Necromancers should be Cha exclusive; I don't see all of them as manipulators and schemers. In fact, the idea of a Necro as being aloof, introverted, and otherwise happy to keep to itself (most likely the 'good' kind), is a pretty strong one. I say Necros should be able to use either Con or Cha as their secondary.Last edited by Surrealistik; 2012-06-17 at 09:58 AM.
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2012-06-17, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
Hey Chainsaw?
What's the next base character?SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-17, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
A human Marshal clad in furs and leather armour, with a wild, unkempt beard and limbs like tree-trunks. He grasps his oversized blade in one hand, and beacons his allies forth with the other.
Also, do you have the drawing of the wizard? If so, I would like to see it, please.Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-17 at 04:59 PM.
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2012-06-18, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
Major updates to the Marhsal class near the bottom of the doc.
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2012-06-23, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Fourth Edition Retro Clone
I have begun to work on the system again. Do you think surprise rounds should be made more potent?
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2012-06-23, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
Definitely. I mean, if someone jumps into a room that you're standing in and slashes at you, without any warning?
Yeah.
Also, I'll scan in the wizard soon. It's a black-and-white- drawing, inked, yet I have no coloring system.SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-23, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
Thank you so much for the drawing.
I made it so that if one gets a surprise round, they can take a full turn, not just a single action. They also get Combat Advantage during the surprise round, which has become more significant.
Now the element of surprise is a major advantage, rather than just a minor perk.Last edited by Chainsaw Hobbit; 2012-06-23 at 08:49 PM.
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2012-06-23, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
Scratch the inking. I thought I did. But I didn't.
Will ink later.
Spoiler
..yeah, um, not great.SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-23, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
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2012-06-23, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
What should I change, besides inking?
SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-23, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
The arms are a bit long. Also, it might look better from a three-quarter perspective.
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2012-06-23, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- Oldhelwyn Wilds
Avatar by Gurgleflep
SpoilerBelladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
Casting as a Skill
Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
Fill in those dead levels...
Abrothia's Vision
Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
Extended Signature (90% complete)
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2012-06-23, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
'Kay, I'll start a new one.
SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-23, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
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2012-06-23, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- sad
Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
Is the magic and hair and all that stiff fine?
SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-23, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
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2012-06-23, 09:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
Sounds good. I may remedy the book a little as well...
SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-23, 09:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-26, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
I thought fourth edition was alright, but I really would like a job. I am an avid artist working on learning photoshop. I will work for free. If you need any jobs, just put them on this thread to Gligarman2. I will post images on this forum, or if you have an alternative, that's fine. Could I please work with you? I really like your guts and ambition. Good luck!
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2012-06-26, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
YOU"RE STEALING MY WORK! *sneak attack*
Naw, It's great to have another artist in the crew!
Also CH I'm going for it on a frontal view on the wizard...SpoilerThis is the thief who likes to hoard,
That loves the bard with the puppet Lord
That admires the fighter with the green-hilted sword,
That employs the Wizard, whose bird is ignored,
That has the gender unexplored
That intrigues the Halfling, usually bored,
That slew a mountain of the goblin horde,
That follows the cleric,
That serves the lich,
That seeks the gate,
That guards the snarl,
That lives in the prison the gods built.
guess what I was gone but now I'm back
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2012-06-26, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn
Thanks Bard! I am looking for a new style, and I will incorporate parts of your work. Your stuff is just as valid to me as Luke McKay's stuff or that guy who works with Linkara! Be proud.
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2012-06-26, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Magic Sword: Fourth Edition Reborn