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2012-08-31, 11:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Tarquin fandom: Yes, your guy really is that awesome and crazy prepared. Be joyful.
Tarquin hatedom: Xykon is coming. Be joyful.
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2012-08-31, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder if OOTS gets any xp for this?
I would be a procrastinator, but I keep putting it off.
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2012-08-31, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
As long as they 'defeated' the new LG, they do get xp for them.
One could argue whether they really 'defeated' Tarquin, Malak, Zz'dtri and Quarr, but they'll definitely get xp for Nale and Kilkil.
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2012-08-31, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
And Sabine. (Though really, it's a fault of the rules that anyone but Durkon and maybe Haley is entitled to XP for that.)
Last edited by willpell; 2012-08-31 at 11:39 PM.
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2012-09-01, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
C'mon... Tarquin is the foil to Roy that Thog could never be. Thog is just a STR based Berserker. Tarquin is a smart Fighter, probably single classed just as is Roy, and also probably higher level. Roy beat the simpleton Thog by using the cross-class skill of Knowledge:Architecture, FerThor'sSake. Tarquin, OTOH, is an intelligent, charismatic Fighter with a huge pile of non-optimal Feats (and probably skills) based upon his INT and CHA which he uses to excellent effect in a game setting where optimization is quite typically (and frankly, boringly) king.
So count me in as a Tarquin fangirl. I prefer a character who achieves victory via the use of non-traditional Feats and tactics over a single-minded focus on some "char-ops" build that Roy needs to walk off a cliff to defeat (cannot find the "half-ogre, reach plus spiked-chain" comic to cite here, damnit).
PS: I never bought into the theory that Malack would join the OotS. Malack seems much too aligned with Tarquin to betray him in that manner.
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2012-09-01, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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2012-09-01, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I'm just gonna throw out that tropes are not bad - sometimes, the Deus Ex Machina gets presented as such because there was no reason to explain it earlier in the story. It's not necessarily lazy writing, and I'm willing to give Rich the benefit of the doubt in this case.
And Tarquin & Z - in the example linked, the chimera was about to make a tactical retreat, but they were still going to get XP for defeating it. Probably not anything for Malack or Qarr, though.
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2012-09-01, 01:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Germany
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
That'd be too bad, because the rule for gaining XP for "overcoming challenges" instead of "killing stuff" is intended to encourage kill-less solutions, isn't it? Not granting XP for Qarr and Malack because they cut them off would undermine this intention.
And the Giant would strike me as a person who, if this actually was a game of D&D, would enforce this. But that's just my point of view, of courseLast edited by raymundo; 2012-09-01 at 01:48 AM.
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2012-09-01, 01:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- rocky coast, golden shore
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-09-01, 04:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Well, first action from any mage on the ambushing side is "dimensional anchor". Unless you want to let them a chance to escape, but even in that case, it's better to let them find a more dangerous way (like flying or running).
The ambushing side don't have any caster able to do so ? It's not well prepared enough.
That or use the ol'good "write on paper what I want to say".
There were a bunch of way for Tarquin to give the drow that order. I doubt him knowing drow sign langage will end up being as critical as most people seem to think.
Oh, and I love how Tarquin determines Nale's consciousness based on his love of his own voice.
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2012-09-01, 07:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
After my first reading I though "that sure is anti-climactic, howmany easy escapes are going to prolong this drawn out storyline?"
After the second reading, I realised that I haven't seen where they ended up though. "Out of the frying pan, into the fire" is very much an option here. If they end up somewhere safe, able to regroup/recover then yes, it'll be another boring escape from the LG. But I'll hold off judgement until I've seen the next few comics though :) Can't judge a story-writing decision without seeing at least part of the followup happenings.
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2012-09-01, 07:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
I don't actually play D&D. I do play:
Magic: the Gathering Online (with FREE tournaments at Gatherling)
DC Universe, my surprisingly good CoH replacement
Planetside 2, MMO-meets-FPS (and the first shooter I've liked in ages).
Simunomics - a massive multiplayer Business Simulation Game. Browser-based, free to play.
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2012-09-01, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Looks like I was slightly off base... while I was right that people would unreasonably grumble about Drow-cant, I really didn't think there would be so many people to demonstrate such a thorough lack of understanding about what Deus Ex Machina means.
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine... and I've posted this before, but people are getting it nearly CRIMINALLY wrong at this point.
Deus Ex Machina is defined as:Originally Posted by dictionary
1) Drow Cant isn't a device. Deus Ex Machina explicitly refers to a device, some invention or creation abruptly able to undo whatever problems the characters are encountering in order to let them triumph at a point where all hope seemed to be lost.
2) Drow Cant didn't resolve any difficulties for the heroes. The Heroes were ALREADY WINNING. This is probably the greatest and most offensive misuse of the term, in my eyes. Deus Ex Machina has a very explicit and context-specific meaning, but a lot of people seem to start throwing it around blindly any time anything happens which they don't like.
3) Drow Cant didn't even cause anything to happen! It was totally irrelevant. As mentioned, Tarquin had about eight other ways he could have communicated his message, but Rich went with the one that delivered humor. It really says something about the irrationality of the hatred for Tarquin that a strip can be published and, rather than being upset that a Wizard who has never been shown to have Teleport before abruptly has the exact spell needed to get the LG out of a losing battle, people instead complain that the general whose nation borders a Drow kingdom happens to know the Drow language.
*fume*
Sorry... but seriously... if you aren't going to use terms correctly, consider not using them... it only makes your argument look weaker.Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-09-01, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-01, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-09-01, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Actually, it wouldn't be very reasonable since a) the dark elves usually live underground while surface elves prefer arboreal themes and b) the dark elves usually hate surface elves more than any others.
Maybe she meant every kingdom borders the dark elves' domain by virtue of being on the surface.Last edited by Smolder; 2012-09-01 at 09:37 AM.
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2012-09-01, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Just to add, a good example from the strip (and V later even used the very term to refer to that event) would be when Xykon's zombie dragon head falls straight on the Xykon Decoy that was about to roast V.
Every nation in the world vertically borders Drow territory.
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2012-09-01, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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2012-09-01, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
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2012-09-01, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-01, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-01, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
It makes it possible, not plausible.
Some old unknown ally suddenly appearing on the battleground and saving T is plausible.
An amulet of teleport being drawn there by a powerful tornado bouncing all the way there along a secret air duct and then falling into T's hands may be "soundly explained", but certainly not plausible.
Just because something can be explained it doesn't automatically make it buyable.
Which is why I said believable is subjective. You can choose to believe something regardless of the amount of evidence for or against it.Last edited by Mantine; 2012-09-01 at 11:35 AM.
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2012-09-01, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
If, as you have said, a month's worth of explanation in the comic wouldn't be enough for you to "buy" something, then nothing in the OOTSverse is buyable by your definition. Rich is never going to spend a month explaining something, nor would that be entertaining in any way.
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2012-09-01, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- Mehville
Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Hmm...
He's never surprised. Not even when he's surprised.
He sends fruit baskets to the Drow. Just in case.
He doesn't change his plans, his plans change for him.
He uses escaped slaves to construct one-hundred foot tall birthday messages for his sons.
He appreciates the value of a good spear.
His people don't respect him out of fear, they fear him out of respect.
His plan B has a plan B.
People never return his gifts (well, except for Elan, but that's a special case).
By Jove, I've got it! Taquin IS the most interesting man in the world.
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2012-09-01, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Eh... possibly... though if Tarquin thinks the Drow may be seeking a military alliance doesn't that imply that the Drow military would be relatively nearby?
Edit: Additionally, classic D&D holds that the Drow are a dark sect of elves driven underground by some past conflict, so it does make sense that if the Elven Kingdoms are here, the Drow are going to be here as well. My point remains that it is a bit shortsighted to be surprised that Tarquin knows the language of one of the few groups he -doesn't- control and actually has to keep tabs on!Last edited by FujinAkari; 2012-09-01 at 12:43 PM.
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English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-09-01, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-01, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-09-01, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Glancing at a dictionary, you appear to be correct. Odd, I apparently learned the definition of that word incorrectly!
Thanks Kish :)
Like Sarcasm, Hyperbole relies largely on tone of voice and facial expression and is generally best not employed via a textual medium such as forums :PLast edited by FujinAkari; 2012-09-01 at 12:44 PM.
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2012-09-01, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-09-01, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #862 - The Discussion Thread
Been thinking a little about this debate about the plausibility of Tarquin's little tricks, and the suspension of disbelief in this comic.
First, to those who feel that Tarquin knowing Drow sign destroys credulity for you, I say, well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I don't think anyone here is saying that you aren't. What some of us who feel like Tarquin's tricks are an addition to this comic as opposed to being a subtraction are saying that we don't find it hard to believe at all. In fact, to me at least, knowing something like Drow Cant is completely in character for Tarquin, based upon what I've seen from him in the past.
Secondly, I would say that this comic has never seemed to have taken itself too seriously. It has, in fact, broken the fourth wall on occasion. So if one is looking for "serious" storytelling, one may be reading the wrong comic.
Also, I would add, if one dislikes the mode by which Rich chooses to tell his most excellent story, why would one continue to read the comic? I would say that one is drawn in by the way Rich spins his tale, so like it or not, he has done his job.
That's my two copper pieces.