Results 751 to 780 of 814
Thread: Why play anything else?
-
2013-01-15, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
-
2013-01-15, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: Why play anything else?
AFAIK most settings make no mention whatsoever about whether they're planets orbiting a star, discs on the backs of giant turtles, the interior of a massive, hollow sphere with a star in the middle, etc.
Assuming a planet orbiting a star is taking the line about things working like they do IRL in absence of a rule changing it farther than it was ever intended to go. You could even go with the classicist view of the world of the campaign setting being the center of its universe with everything else orbiting around the point it happens to sit on.I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign
Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle
-
2013-01-15, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- <<Undetected>>
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
And with relativity, where no frame of reference is privileged, this would be absolutely correct, Kelb.
Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.
Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.
-
2013-01-15, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Why play anything else?
My Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
-
2013-01-15, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Toril is explicitly mentioned as orbiting a star, as is the Oerth. I don't know about Eberron; more attention is payed to its moons and ring than its star (who cares about a star? 13-1 moons and a ring system, dude!). The Hollow World is, of course, a hollow world with a small star at its center. If I recall correctly, its surface either went undescribed, OR it was assumed to be the Oerth, which was mentioned above.
Sigil is a plane unto itself; Spelljammer generally assumed stars and planets, but not always; I'm not sure if it was ever detailed in Dark Sun (2nd Edition or 4E) or the Points of Light setting for 4E; and I don't know about Mystara.
I think that's all the official settings.
-
2013-01-15, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- London
- Gender
-
2013-01-15, 08:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Why play anything else?
Careful; no inertial reference frame is privileged. An accelerating frame is distinguishable from an inertial frame, so they are not equivalent. You cannot stand on an accelerating frame and assume everything else is accelerating around you; your own acceleration can be measured.
-
2013-01-15, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Spring, TX
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
So, the gist of this thread seems to be "Why play anything else? Because relativity."
-
2013-01-15, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- <<Undetected>>
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.
Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.
-
2013-01-15, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: Why play anything else?
Just this most recent tangent.
The overall message of the thread is the same as it is every other time this topic has ever come up.
Why play anything that isn't T1?
- Because you find lower tier classes entertaining to build and play
- Because winning is not only -not- the object of the game but usually impossible to actually accomplish
- Because your DM may not allow the option. Low-op groups banning the T1's as they begin to learn the intricacies of optimization is not uncommon
- Because playing a T1 to its potential is much more difficult and time consuming than doing the same with lower tier classes
- Several other things I've likely forgotten
I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign
Avatar by Tiffanie Lirle
-
2013-01-15, 10:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
-
2013-01-16, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
* Because optimisation through increasing your character's capabilities on the character sheet is an inefficient method of optimisation that can often be counterproductive.
Compare two characters - one is a Tier 4 character that is well integrated into the game, and has capabilities that interact well in a fashion that is well balanced both with the other characters and the game world. The other in Pun-Pun. We all know which is a higher Tier character, but which will be able to achieve more in an actual game? Because one of those two games isn't going to last long enough for you to do anything at all.
-
2013-01-16, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Pun-pun is way too extreme to even be used as a Tier1 example though. (maybe it was a joke?)
The versatility and power is still a grand factor in even "none-min-maxed" more or less core Tier 1's.
I'm not talking about being unbeatable, just about being fit to handle "all" situations\roles in a game by just being one of a handful of different classes.Last edited by Norin; 2013-01-16 at 09:07 AM.
"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance."
-
2013-01-16, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
-
2013-01-16, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- MD
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
As I see it, optimizing to "win" is just one branch of optimization. Players also optimize for "fun". Why play a Tier 1 if you will be bored a miserable? Some player like to experiment and learn the game on their own. They optimize learning how different strategies work. Some players just like swinging swords every round.
-
2013-01-16, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
I like to play wizards because they're magical. They don't need to be insanely powerful to be magical. And while they should be complicated, they could stand to be a damn sight less so.
Conversely, I play fighters so I can be a tough no-nonsense badass, and if the rules say that isn't what happens when I write "fighter" on my sheet, then screw the rules. Fighters should always be less complex than wizards, but they don't need to be quite as simple as they are.
Why play anything else? Because there's everything else. I won't consider my D&D career finished until I've played danged near every class, and all the races I don't find painfully stupid, in multiple variations of each. It may not quite actually happen in terms of actual play, but I plan to at least endeavor to log hundreds of characters and see the entire experience from every angle possible. Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants...even if you can afford such a diet, gorrammit sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
-
2013-01-16, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
This does not make sense to me. How can you "play fighters so you can be a tough badass" if they aren't that? If you want to play a badass, and fighters aren't, then doesn't it make more sense to play something else that actually is a no-nonsense badass (and thus fits your character concept better) rather than try and go against the system?
-
2013-01-16, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: Why play anything else?
And that's why fighter builds usually include more ToB dips than they do actual levels of Fighter. The core class is just boring.
-
2013-01-16, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Why play anything else?
It's question of frame of reference. Fighter 20 is a very badass if you compare it to regular humans. His not a badass when you compare it to stronger level 20 characters.
It's like a sword is a dangerous weapon. When you compare it to bare fists. If you compare it to an a-bomb...
-
2013-01-16, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
-
2013-01-16, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
-
2013-01-16, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- By Bellevue, WA
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
How were they intended to work?
Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
-
2013-01-16, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
-
2013-01-16, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2012
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Wield [weapon] -> hit monster with said weapon repeatedly in different ways -> manage to do this for enough rounds without dying to achieve an end result = Dead monster
Add in the mix a cup of feats to make this happen in slightly different ways, a spoon of different equipment, a pinch of some versatility in combat - stir and bake for 1-20 levels.
That's about it, right? Silly fighters...
Make some strange new version of the fighter that uses stances and manouvers to achieve a more versatile and fun way to handle combat. Now that would be something, right?"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance."
-
2013-01-16, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
-
2013-01-16, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Fighter fights monsters and acts as a shield wall for the wizard who are glass cannons: powerful and able to solve a variety of problems, but extraordinarily squishy and easy to take down if you get into melee range.
Also, balanced - that meaning, that a Fighter 20 and a Wizard 20 were intended to be on roughly even terms. They're not, but they're supposed to be. This involves giving the fighter more options, yes, but it also involves taking options away from the wizards, something that people seem to forget.
Personally I cut 8th and 9th level spells, changed spell progression so that a new spell level is gained at 3rd and every 3 levels thereafter, capping at 7th-level spells at 18th level (instead of 2nd and every 2 levels thereafter), drastically reduced spell ranges while simultaneously examining each spell, ensure that there is no such thing as "save or die" spells and that all spells allow both SR and saves (except magic missile which doesn't allow a save; SR still works, though); getting rid of XP costs for spells and replacing them with GP costs that cuts into the wizard's WBL; and drastically limit their school options by forcing specialization and forcing which schools ban which other schools ahead of time such that it's impossible to ever get a wizard that can cast both Conjuration and Transmutation, because screw that.
Further wizards can only cast spells from their specialized school or universal spells unless they take a feat which lets them branch out into one additional school per time they take the feat. Because they're using up feat slots, though, it cuts down on the amount of Item Creation or Metamagic shennanigans they can do.
Also, how could you 'just fix' them?
-
2013-01-16, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
-
2013-01-16, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- By Bellevue, WA
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
You could always just say "You may only have up to half your levels in wizard levels". It would suck, but would work.
Norin said: Make some strange new version of the fighter that uses stances and manouvers to achieve a more versatile and fun way to handle combat. Now that would be something, right?
That just means ToB classes.
Instead of applying fixes, i think it is better to rebuild the classes from the ground up. The Fixes you suggest just mess around with the two classes and doesn't address the issue or cause of the problem.
If you rebuild them anew, you can remove the problem or weaken it more. The problem still won't go away though.
The Tier induced system was bad game design, which Wotc allowed for older players (ie earlier edition players) who had to have their cake and eat it too. Personally, i would have prefered that they had changed things up. The system needs improvement to me.
Wotc tried to use fixes for 4e and it didn't work. the system needs to be rebuilt, seriously.Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
-
2013-01-16, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
-
2013-01-16, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- By Bellevue, WA
- Gender
Re: Why play anything else?
Everyone complained that they dumbed down the wizard too much, complained that the classes were now copies of each other, and complained that it wasn't D&D anymore for X reason.
Yes, 4E was more balanced, but it did crash as a game in that alot of people whined about it and what it did. I personally think it was a good attempt, but it pushed things around a little too much. The powers stuff and such got people calling 4E warcraft or something.
I found the edition wars extremely enertaining because of the craziness involved. Pages and threads filled with upset people about a game! D&D is just a game, not always a good one, but still a game. I guess i don't just obsess over it like people here.
I didn't have any problems with 4E because it looked to be easier to DM for than 3.5 which is crappy to DM for. Before anybody starts saying crap about how that is not true, let make this one point: The monsters are not designed to consume more than 20% of the party's resources and are deliberately tweaked to be worthless. This is from my DMing experience. Which has put me off DMing anything 3.5 again, or atleast until i can find a completely different gaming group that doesn't have schedule clashes with my schedule.Last edited by russdm; 2013-01-16 at 04:30 PM.
Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)