OOTS #946 - The Discussion Thread

[Porthos]

So, no character development for Durkon -- just reinforcement of his existing prejudices.

Why do people keep saying this?

There is PLENTY of room for character development because of what happened here. Just not the character development many of us thought it would be, myself included.

[The Giant]

Well, there was no proof of that until this point. Giant said Durkon was a nontheistic Cleric,

No, I didn't. This is what I said:

Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period.

All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

Which this comic is not.

[AstralFire]

As someone who was pulling for "one spirit forcibly altered", I am nevertheless pleased by this course for how thoroughly it tosses some rather self-assured arguments on their faces.

Outside of that, I'm not particularly a fan of this turn of events, though.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Also, I don't see why Durkon can't get some character development right now. He still exists, and he shouod have plenty of chances to grow as a result of what he is currently undergoing.
Lol, ninja'ed.

[Porthos]

All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

Which this comic is not.

Tricksy Tricksy, Giantiees.

[Valanarch]

I hope that the Durkon/Durkula Relationship becomes something like the one in the Dresden Files between

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Lash and Harry.

[Oddity222]

Well, can't say I'm surprised, Malak did say that he spared Belkar in the memory of Durkon that was, saying this to Durkula himself...And he himself said that he and his mortal Shaman self were separate beings, not to mention if Durkon would be the same as a vampire, it would undermine his sacrifice...But Kudos to those that said Hel would be Durkon’s deity, I thought he would worship Nergal like Malack, if any diety.

[derfenrirwolv]

D'awwww... fenris looks so cute!

[Kalaska'Agathas]

In order to resurrect him, they would need to stake him. the spell doesn't work on undead unless theyre destroyed first, and many forms of killing a vampire don't leave a body to cast it on.

Given that a creature dusted by Disintegrate leaves sufficient remains to cast Resurrection, I suspect a dusted vamp would be similarly resurrectable. You'd just have to take care to make sure the vampdust isn't blown away or lost amidst a desert's worth of sand.

[Keltest]

I hope that the Durkon/Durkula Relationship becomes something like the one in the Dresden Files between

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Lash and Harry.

I don't, because

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It didn't end up well for Lash, nor did she end up actually manipulating Harry much. Character development of Lash aside, she was still fairly impotent in the day to day actions.

[Terrador]

So far as I can tell, a lotta folk are saying this vampire is totally not Durkon. Although his personality is his own... how much does he draw on Durkon's memories? How much of a personal past does he have? Questions I'm looking forward to seeing answered someday.

[Everyl]

He still does have the shield. I don't know about the hammer. You cant see it on his person, but its possible he has it in hammerspace (*groan*) like Elan's lute and rapier, or Belkar's knives. Or Haley's dagger.

Guh. Nevermind then, I should really look before I post more often.

[DanaK]

So after my initial hysterics subsided, I'm actually finding this makes Durkon's death/vamping a little easier to deal with, knowing that he's still in there, fighting as much as he can.

[Oddity222]

D'awwww... fenris looks so cute!

He is indeed, but I think it's really Garm, but I cannot blame you, I myself thought it's Fenris at first.

[Gift Jeraff]

Guh. Nevermind then, I should really look before I post more often.

To be fair, I think you're right about the hammer.

[Komatik]

No, I didn't. This is what I said:



All of that is 100% true in a game of Dungeons & Dragons.

Which this comic is not.

...

*pout*


Disappointed somehow at the Buffyverse style vampirism, but I trust you to make something amazing out of it anyway.

[Keltest]

To be fair, I think you're right about the hammer.

I am as well, if only because the Giant has taken the time to draw it on Durkon's belt in the past if he was not holding it.

But again, hammerspace (*Groan again*). It wouldn't be the first time a tool disappeared until it was needed.

For that matter, it might become a brick joke about how a D&D player would forget to mention that they retrieve their "Vorpal blade of Killing Things by Looking At Them Sideways" if they get disarmed for some reason.

[Komatik]

Actually, this gives us more reason not to stake the vampire. That should kill both. The Vampire must be raised first, which will not be easy with those vampire powers getting in the way.

Uh, no. It's entirely possible to raise Lawful Good Dwarven Cleric Durkon Thundershield (who dislikes human ale 'cause it's moose urine) with a good old Resurrection spell, while leaving Durkula, Hel-spawned Demon somewhere nasty where he belongs. It's not a problem at all.

...except that you have to stake a high-level evil cleric with no compunctions of killing his old "friends" first. Which is admittedly a bit of a drag on the stake-and-resurrect plan.

So Durkula is a totally different person. Hmmm.

I'm kind of disappointed just because I love seeing The Giant's takes on alignments and personality. And I think a Good person forced to become Evil is a fascinating development. An evil pretender who knows full-well what he's doing is also a compelling story, just not as unique.

Anyway, a dramatic end to the chapter and nice hook for the next.

Agreed.

[oppyu]

So, we all down with staking the undead abomination now? And we're agreed that the vampire is not the real Durkon? Alright.

That last panel is serious nightmare fuel.

[AstralFire]

Why does everyone call this "Buffy" vampirism when this kind of approach to the undead in general has existed well before that show, if not always as clear in the metaphysical mechanics?

[Pronounceable]

I don't understand how Giant can manage to make stick figures look so epic. How you art?

In other news, do we know goddess of exactly what Hel is? I presume destruction, just because of the prophecy's wording but we know for sure? A goddess of death and destruction would probably want to release Snarl for giggles, while complete destruction of mortal world wouldn't be a very desirable goal for a goddess of dwarves, evil or disease.

[Keltest]

Why does everyone call this "Buffy" vampirism when this kind of approach to the undead in general has existed well before that show, if not always as clear in the metaphysical mechanics?

because that popularized the idea. And besides, its Buffy.

[MSTang]

So, we all down with staking the undead abomination now? And we're agreed that the vampire is not the real Durkon? Alright.

That last panel is serious nightmare fuel.

Serious nightmare fuel, indeed.

[Joseph_Lavode]

Well... sadly that answers all kinds of Durkon related questions.

[Komatik]

The one positive thing in all of this? A really goddamn super huge one?

Durkula is smooth, plans ahead, has the power to make things happen. He reminds me of a certain other Lawful Evil Cleric in the comic. And the one thing about that Machiavellian monstrosity with an eyepatch? HE'S AWESOME.

[mikeejimbo]

Well.

That answers a few questions.

[Gift Jeraff]

Interesting parallels between "Service is my sole purpose, my lady," Malack's speech about service being the natural order, and Durkon's speech about duty.

[thatSeniorGuy]

DUN DUN DUUUUUH!!!!!!

So, count me onboard with stake-Durkula-and-ressurrect-Durkon people now, this need to be fixed ASAP.

Giant: thank-you very much for a great conclusion to a story arc that has probably been the hardest for you to produce. I wish you a very productive "time away producing comics" "break"!

Also, nice touch with Julio flying away, and with V correcting Bandana!

[Lombard]

Actually if you look closely, you can see Trigak struggling inside the Durkon's eye who is struggling inside the Durkula's eye.. it's like a soul petrushka

[CarpeGuitarrem]

WOW.

That may just be the best book-ending strip so far. Although we've had some hard-to-top ones.