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Thread: What do you expect from D&D?
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2014-08-30, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Isn't killing them, y'know. A bit much for crimes like trespassing, theft and being disliked by someone who has enough money to convince the guards to keep them out of the way?
I wouldn't expect any DM to wantonly kill characters for extremely petty crimes, just because they're magic users. I would expect them to treat magic users a little differently to others, but the only time I'd expect a magic user to be put to the sword for something petty, is if the justice system in question was either corrupt, Evil or Lawful Stupid.
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2014-08-30, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-30, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
But just rule changes right? The DM can have secret custom stuff, as that is allowed by the rules. And the DM is free to use anything in the rules, without telling you ahead of time.
So how do you stand on setting and/or plot stuff. If the DM wants to make a ''broken gate to the plane of fire'' and wants it to have an effect like ''all fire spells within 50 feet are maximized'' do they have to ask the players if they can have this in the bad guys castle? Or does the DM have to only ask if it is a negative effect?
Sounds, ok...but could be a problem. After all if spellcasting is a ''basic ability'' then that would mean the DM can't use counterspells, dispels, or anti-magic right? You would feel ''punished'' like a melting special snowflake would feel punished if they took a trip to Florida and it was hot that day , if the archwizard had something like an anti-magic field and you had a spellcaster.
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2014-08-30, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
This is the single most toxic reply I've ever seen. In a thread ostensibly made for people to share their opinions, you're now attacking people that dare put forward one that you don't like, with a holier-than-thou, insulting attitude.
Did you make this thread for a discussion, or so you could have a podium to stand on and complain?
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2014-08-30, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Naw. Stuff like that is workable. The big trouble comes when a DM changes the way a character's stuff works without the character knowing. Say you have a DM who thinks fireball is too good and nerfs it, but never tells his player who builds a fire sorcerer, only to find out at level 6 that his signature spell is suddenly really terrible.
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2014-08-30, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Jedipotter, if you're trying to make things mysterious, the mystery shouldn't be what is happening, but rather why is this thing happening. And the players should be able to figure it out, eventually.
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2014-08-30, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
I didn't say secret setting rules at all. I said secrets not attached to the rules at all. Secrets like, "Who killed this guy?" or, "What's up with this set of mysterious tablets?"
If it happens by chance...it's by chance and fine. And a ''by chance'' anti-undead character player won't go all out like the cheating optimizer will to get that one more plus or whatever.
Well, I would never say ''i'm doing an Undead Game. I hate that. So your saying I should ask the players to be more random, mysterious and have more fun?
And not doing the lame ''Undead Game'' works best of all.
Guess I will never agree with the boring gamers, but then that is why my game is different. It is not fun, for me and some other people, to do the same thing all the time. And playing D&D by the RAW rules is boring after a while. And that is just one problem. So I add more.
Also, incidentally, you should probably be having this discussion over in the place where this discussion is, instead of in this thread over here.
Edit:D&D is a game of offense and defense, play and counterplay. Spellcasting is the player's basic ability, and counterspelling is the opponent's basic ability. Just like it's not screwing with the melee character's beatstickery to have a monster with DR or high AC, it's not screwing with the caster's castery to use the various rules legal methods of shutting those things down. However, while you get to pick the counterplay, it's critical that the player picks the play. If you control both sides of the engagement, then why even have players there at all?Last edited by eggynack; 2014-08-30 at 07:34 PM.
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2014-08-30, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
The thing is that jedipotter is actually not even remotely familiar with the game, and because he can't stand the players having a better understanding of it, he has to Calvinball it up just to stay "competitive." Because it takes effort to play fair, and maturity to talk things out, but it's really easy to say "no, your spell fails, because Orcus."
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2014-08-30, 07:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-30, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
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2014-08-30, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep
Ask me (or the other authors) anything.
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2014-08-30, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
I think I mainly want a DM who isn't going to go out of his way to make my character weaker mid-game, and would just tell me OOC if he wants me to change or reroll. I can deal with most houserules (except fumbles ), so long as anything that directly affects my character is stated, and anything that comes up in game is reasonably explained. If a DM homebrewed a monster, for example, I wouldn't expect him to tell us the statblock as soon as we see it, but I would expect that we can make knowledge/spot/spellcraft checks to try to figure out what the monster is doing. I would also hope that the DM is willing to listen to us about what we think about the rules.
Probably the most important thing to me, and giving the benefit of the doubt it seems to also be the most important to jedipotter, is that the DM should want the whole group to have fun. I would sort of hope that the whole group wants the whole group to have fun, now that I'm thinking about it.
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2014-08-30, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Resurrection costs 5,000 gp minimum. If you were going to do that every time you imprison a mid-level caster, something which must be at least fairly common, you'd wind up with way too many costs to be economically viable.
Divinations, maybe. But not all crimes are equal, especially not in a LG society. Maybe in a LE society you'd see this kind of murder.
You'd never see every warlock who picks a guy's pocket being put down every time. Even if he is guilty, he doesn't automatically get a death sentence. What are you going to do if you can't imprison him in an AM cell? Keeping someone unconscious isn't rehabilitation (which is kind of the point, really) and it's not like AMF is impossible to be used in a city. It takes, what, an 11th level caster? I can see at least one of those existing in a town, and even higher level casters can cast it more times per day. Better yet, tenured wizards probably don't get paid by the spell.
Granted, I recognize the issues with this. But AMF cells are kind of common in D&D, enough so for them to exist in OoTS. I homebrewed a material that dampens magical power for cells to be made out of, and allowed for better locks.
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2014-08-30, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
Re: What do you expect from D&D?
If it happens by chance...it's by chance and fine. And a ''by chance'' anti-undead character player won't go all out like the cheating optimizer will to get that one more plus or whatever.
example: a combat focused rogue comes in not being warned that its an undead campaign, you see that the player is struggling to be able to contribute meaningfully as a result of this-you've basically made a character useless. Congrats...
example 2: a ranger has made choices for favoured enemy its a an undead campaign where the choices for favoured enemy havent appeared at all. Congrats you've not done your job as a dm in informing them of this or giving them situations where their abilities would actually be useful.
Well, I would never say ''i'm doing an Undead Game. I hate that. So your saying I should ask the players to be more random, mysterious and have more fun?
other than that
I expect that RAW for the most part is in effect, however RAI is expected if there are any exploits etc that breaks the game.
Are we using any of the errata?
Any changes to the rules to be brought up beforehand, if at all possible. If any changes occur during game then it needs to have a valid reason to back it up which makes sense
What are the sources allowed for character building?
What's the power level of the group
That the DM not hijack my character based on any action that they disagree with.
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2014-08-30, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
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2014-08-30, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Seems expensive, why not cuff, gag, blindfold and throw into an anti magic area?
For building characters, it would feel awkward the DM denying the use of certain subsystems then going ahead and using them as NPCs, but yeah. I did this exact same thing, players are Homebrew Classes only, while NPCs are allowed official WotC Classes if I want to use them.
They knew about it ahead of time.
I regularly take stuff from both the approved Homebrew list and the stuff I'd never approve of for player use for encounters. Because I like it and am constantly finding places in the game world where stuff just, belongs.
So how do you stand on setting and/or plot stuff. If the DM wants to make a ''broken gate to the plane of fire'' and wants it to have an effect like ''all fire spells within 50 feet are maximized'' do they have to ask the players if they can have this in the bad guys castle? Or does the DM have to only ask if it is a negative effect?
Sounds, ok...but could be a problem. After all if spellcasting is a ''basic ability'' then that would mean the DM can't use counterspells, dispels, or anti-magic right? You would feel ''punished'' like a melting special snowflake would feel punished if they took a trip to Florida and it was hot that day , if the archwizard had something like an anti-magic field and you had a spellcaster.
With Counterspells, Dispels and Antimagic being used against PC Casters I mean.
See, what we have here, are potential Challenges, and as a DM you're supposed to Challenge your players. Making things hard because the obstacle is well constructed is offering up a difficult, but fair challenge.
It ceases to be a Challenge and becomes a Problem, if when a Caster uses a Spell on the enemy Caster, instead the DM states "No, your god doesn't let you attack someone of the same alignment, you attack other PC of different alignment instead." because this is taking away player agency and punishing them for using their abilities.
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2014-08-30, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
Re: What do you expect from D&D?
So your talking about Jerk DM's. The ones that in the middle of the game make fireballs damage 1d2, just to personalty attack the player of a fire sorcerer character.
How is what and why so different? And players try to discover the secret rules all the time, it's part of the fun.
[QUOTE=eggynack;18030495]I didn't say secret setting rules at all. I said secrets not attached to the rules at all. Secrets like, "Who killed this guy?" or, "What's up with this set of mysterious tablets?"
Most players won't go all out unless they have the safe go ahead from the DM. And even if this happened in my game...I could just switch from undead to anything else with no problem. Mine would never be an ''offical told the players it would be all undead'' type game.
Ok, it's not like I don't say that. So....
Sure, there are just not many with enough flavor.
Only the hyper controlling player with lots of deep personal problems would say my house rules ''control a character''. It's not like ''sometimes your summoning spells will miss summon'' equals ''your character is now under my control and you will do this''.
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2014-08-30, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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2014-08-30, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
Re: What do you expect from D&D?
So your talking about Jerk DM's. The ones that in the middle of the game make fireballs damage 1d2, just to personalty attack the player of a fire sorcerer character.
How is what and why so different? And players try to discover the secret rules all the time, it's part of the fun.
Now where have i heard a story of a dm who changed a healing spell to its inflict equivalent? or has made summoning create orcus?Last edited by gartius; 2014-08-30 at 08:19 PM.
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2014-08-30, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2013
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2014-08-30, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
If your players would never go all out without your explicit go ahead, what's the risk in telling your players that there's an undead game afoot? Also, seriously, the stated premise was secretly Ravenloft game with a rogue. I don't really see the issue with having that be the premise.
Ok, it's not like I don't say that. So....
Sure, there are just not many with enough flavor.
Only the hyper controlling player with lots of deep personal problems would say my house rules ''control a character''. It's not like ''sometimes your summoning spells will miss summon'' equals ''your character is now under my control and you will do this''.
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2014-08-30, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
Re: What do you expect from D&D?
limiting options IS controlling a player. nerfing options is limiting them. its like throwing up walls around a character, you ARE controlling them and telling them where theyll go.
as for the original question, even though i've answered: i also expect semi-regular gaming unless something comes up... actually thats less of an expectation more of a wish. i enjoy structure.i apologize in advance for being wrong, im not quite there yet!
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2014-08-30, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
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2014-08-30, 08:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
Here's an example I remember. Corellon changing a clerc's Cure spell to an Inflict spell because ot was used on a drow. That seems pretty controlling to me.
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2014-08-30, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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2014-08-30, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
Re: What do you expect from D&D?
So your talking about Jerk DM's. The ones that in the middle of the game make fireballs damage 1d2, just to personalty attack the player of a fire sorcerer character.
How is what and why so different? And players try to discover the secret rules all the time, it's part of the fun.
[QUOTE=eggynack;18030495]I didn't say secret setting rules at all. I said secrets not attached to the rules at all. Secrets like, "Who killed this guy?" or, "What's up with this set of mysterious tablets?"
Most players won't go all out unless they have the safe go ahead from the DM. And even if this happened in my game...I could just switch from undead to anything else with no problem. Mine would never be an ''offical told the players it would be all undead'' type game.
Ok, it's not like I don't say that. So....
Sure, there are just not many with enough flavor.
Only the hyper controlling player with lots of deep personal problems would say my house rules ''control a character''. It's not like ''sometimes your summoning spells will miss summon'' equals ''your character is now under my control and you will do this''.
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2014-08-30, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-30, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?
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2014-08-30, 08:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-30, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What do you expect from D&D?