Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. III: Cut off one thread, two more shall take its place

[Flickerdart]

The third Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. thread! Agentier and shieldier than ever before, or your money back.

Past threads:
Agents of SHIELD
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's A Magical Thread

Phil Coulson: You've visited other realms, seen different species, aliens. Have you ever encountered any that were blue?

Curious how "little green men" are always blue these days.

[Petrocorus]

Spoiler: Does he knows?

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I'm not that sure that Doctor Dad knows that Whitehall is the one who killed his wife. The last scene seems to imply that he does, but his conversation with Coulson seems to imply the contrary.

Spoiler: The Things We Bury

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It felt good to learn more about Whitehall's past and how it ties together with the mystery of the Obelisk/Diviner, not to mention how that stuff ties together with the City, and the maybe-Inhumans (the "blue angels" bit further strengthens that theory). Are Inhumans immortal in the comics, by the way? And now they know where maybe-Attilan is, probably. Did anyone spot where on Earth the computer said it was?

I don't recall the inhumans to be blue in the comics. Are they blue in the ultimate universe?

Spoiler: Today's Episode

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I think that part of the reason Ward gave whatshisname to S.H.I.E.I.L.D. was to clear a vacancy in the Hydra power structure for himself.

This is actually a good theory. Probably true. I think we're far from really understanding what game exactly that guy is paying.

Spoiler: location of the village

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Is it only me, or did you guys also see that the village that is supposed to be in China, and clearly populated by asian people, is in Austria?

Spoiler

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The scene of 1945 is in Austria, but the people could perfectly have been moved from China.
Same for the scene of 1989.

Spoiler

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Heh, yeah. My favorite line in the episode, too. Skye's dad is just an awesome character

True. And also an freaking awesome actor. Seriously, i love McLachlan since Dune and Twin Peaks.

[Athaniar]

I don't recall the inhumans to be blue in the comics. Are they blue in the ultimate universe?

Spoiler: Blue Angels

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"Blue Angels" would refer to the Kree in this case.

[The New Bruceski]

Alternate thread title: The Old, the Dad, and the Crazy.

Muad'Dad is great.

[huttj509]

Alternate thread title: The Old, the Dad, and the Crazy.

Muad'Dad is great.

Aren't they all crazy?

[dehro]

Also, there are limits to Heimdall's vision as we saw in Thor 2: The Dark World, so it's possible for aliens to visit without arousing the Asgardians.

So, what you're saying is that Heimdall is a pervy voyeur?

Curious how "little green men" are always blue these days.

Blue is the new green

Spoiler: Does he knows?

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I'm not that sure that Doctor Dad knows that Whitehall is the one who killed his wife. The last scene seems to imply that he does, but his conversation with Coulson seems to imply the contrary.

I think you're forgetting

Spoiler: rule nr 1

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The Doctor lies.
Jokes aside, we know for a fact that he's speaking in half truths, has his own agenda and, by the looks of it, aims to control his tactical advantage (knowledge/information) in such a manner as to keep SHIELD and HYDRA each from getting the upper hand on the other, playing them both... Which, come to think of it, is remarkably similar to what that other Doctor would do in his place

[thorgrim29]

Spoiler

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The scene of 1945 is in Austria, but the people could perfectly have been moved from China.
Same for the scene of 1989.

Yeah, but isn't Skye supposed to have been recovered by the SHIELD agents in China?

[TheOldCrow]

Random thoughts on The Things We Bury:

Spoiler: The Things We Bury

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Why did Hydra just happen to be at the place in Australia at the same time as SHIELD? Seems like a big coincidence.

Skye Daddy is all kinds of crazy, and highly entertaining.

Bakshi had poison installed in his cheekbone. This explains why they never showed any of the fight scenes involving him, because he was probably throwing his arms over his head and screaming, "Not the face! Not the face!"

Now Bakshi is in the infirmary. With Simmons. Who may be brainwashed.

Trip got shot. He also might be in the infirmary. He also might be brainwashed (from his time with Garrett).

The vivisection scene was too long and gruesome, it forced me out of the story. I think it was longer than the rest of Skye Mom's combined screen time.

Where did Hydra dump her body that Skye Daddy just happened upon it? I got lost a bit with where Whitehall was headquartered, I think.

May gets stuck at the office, and Coulson is in the field. I get the feeling this is his way of taking a "vacation".

[lt_murgen]

Spoiler: on Skye's disfunctional family

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I think the whole thing broke down like this:

Whitehall is unburied by the Hydra agents within shield.
He tells them of the Obelisk, and its ties to the orient.
Hydra sets him up in a secret lab there to continue his work.
Hydra finds Skye's mom in a secluded village. They wipe out the rest of the villagers to hide the abductions.
This event brings Shield into it, and they find SKye as a baby. Maybe exposed to extreme cold, or fire, and being just fine- thus identifying her as an 084. Maybe she even had blue skin as a baby, who knows.
Later, Skye's father returns to the destroyed village, and sets about seeking the hydra base, assuming they have his wife and kid. This I beleive ties it to asia, as if his wife was transported all the way to the US or Austria, he'd never find them.
Whitehall finds what he needs and rejuvinates. Dumps the mom's body.
Skye's father finds the body and assumes both wife and child are dead, sending him off the rails and into 'destroy all humans' mode.
At some point Raina encounters Dad, and together they work out the who and what of the mom's death. Finding out Skye was alive was a bonus.

[DigoDragon]

Slowly catching up. Writing o the Wall was good.

Spoiler

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Glad Ward is at least "helping" Coulson's team. Doesn't look good for Ward's brother though. :3

So the carving is a 3D map. Clever. Interesting that the Welder made that. Guess there's something to be said about the 3D arts. So I'm a bit relieved Coulson might not go crazy now. Still gotta wonder what Skye is for having no side effects. Bet her meeting with dad will be... interesting.

Spoiler: regarding gh 325

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So we have a serum that can cure death but makes you crazy.
now the crazy part has been fixed. We now have the ultimate panacea.
Inject the person then show him a diagram of the 3-d city and presto.
Time to pick up Raina (where is she BTW...) and make trillions.

325

Spoiler

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Well, with the original samples all gone (as mentioned before) we only have the possible hard drive Raina made using the hard drive data. Dunno where that was left. might has been lost somewhere. I seem to recall Raina mentioning that it was hard making that bitty bit. I dunno. I feel we won't see another way of making it if Coulson had a say. He'd probably have that info destroyed.

Spoiler: Raina?

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Can someone remind me why everybody assume that Raina is not human?

Raina

Spoiler

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She's not? I thought she was and the only reason she didn't turn to ash from the obelisk thing was because Skye's dad was there to help her survive it like he said.

Spoiler: Writing on the Wall and Eye Spy

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It's been a while for me too, but I seem to remember it being some kind of military facility. I can't imagine any possible reason as to why any of the five, after their mind-wipe, would go to such a highly secure location on the other side of the world, scribble some symbols, and then return. There's still a mystery here, it seems.

Eye Spy

Spoiler

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I could see Mr. Stabby being the one who wrote that on the wall at that Russian facility. I wonder if they'll ever go back to that plot point?

[LaZodiac]

Concerning Raina, she says she's "the same as Skye" and based on her interactions with Doctor Dad, we can safely assume she's the same as him, Skye, and Skye's Mom.

[dehro]

makes you wonder how long she's been around.

[Thrudd]

For anyone that doesn't know

Spoiler: Kree and Inhumans

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Yes, it does look very much like they are setting them all up to be Inhumans. The Kree (blue skinned humanoids from a larger-than earth planet, making them physically more powerful than humans) came to earth millions of years ago and experimented on early man for the purposes of making super soldiers for their war against the Skrulls (or whatever the MCU will replace the Skrulls with). The results were the Inhumans, a sub-race of super powered humans. The Kree abandoned their experiments, and left the advanced race of Inhumans on earth, for reasons. They lived in the secluded and advanced city of Attilan isolated from primitive mankind (high in the Himalayas). Each Inhuman manifests different powers and abilities and sometimes physical mutations/transformations when they are exposed to a substance called terrigen, which can be bound up in crystalline form or dispersed as a mist. Apart from the mutations and powers caused by the terrigen, Inhumans are naturally stronger and longer lived than normal humans due to the Kree engineering.

The speculation regarding the Guest House Kree which others have suggested is that it was possibly genetically programmed to come to earth and find the Inhumans they had left there (maybe it was a Pursuer), so he had a map of Attilan hard coded into his DNA so it was always accessible. Why Inhumans like Skye would not react the way Coulson and the others did to the GH serum is unknown, since the Kree would not technically be Inhuman. However, it is probable that in the MCU, the Inhumans were created by mixing human with Kree DNA. But you'd think that the map of the city would still appear to her, it just wouldn't drive her mad as it did to the baseline humans. Whatever it is, I'm sure we will find out soon.

The diviner might be a terrigen crystal, or whatever the MCU equivalent will be. Terrigen kills those who don't have pure enough genetics. In the recent Inhumanity storyline in the comics, terrigen mists were dispersed all over the earth. There were people with inhuman heritage to varying degrees, unbeknownst to them, everywhere, due to a faction of inhumans that left Attilan long ago and dispersed among the general human populace. When the terrigen hit them, they went into cocoons, some dying horribly disfigured and others emerging with Inhuman powers. The diviner could be an MCU version of this.

[Petrocorus]

Yeah, but isn't Skye supposed to have been recovered by the SHIELD agents in China?

Spoiler

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Yup, as for now, we have to assume that she was born just before her mom was captured by HYDRA.

Random thoughts on The Things We Bury:

Spoiler: The Things We Bury

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Why did Hydra just happen to be at the place in Australia at the same time as SHIELD? Seems like a big coincidence.

Spoiler: I don't think so...

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No, The Doctor guessed that Coulson would make exactly this. I think he even imply it during their conversation.

Spoiler

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The vivisection scene was too long and gruesome, it forced me out of the story. I think it was longer than the rest of Skye Mom's combined screen time.

Spoiler: An intent of the writers, i believe.

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I believe that was intentional, to really put an emphasis on how bad, how reckless, how inhumane, Whitehall and HYDRA are.

Spoiler

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May gets stuck at the office, and Coulson is in the field. I get the feeling this is his way of taking a "vacation".

Nice! Actually looks like it, indeeed.

For anyone that doesn't know

Spoiler: Kree and Inhumans

Show

Yes, ........e an MCU version of this.

Spoiler

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Thank you, i actually didn't know the connection between Kree and Inhumans, hence my incomprehension.

[Helanna]

For anyone that doesn't know

Spoiler: Kree and Inhumans

Show

Yes, it does look very much like they are setting them all up to be Inhumans. The Kree (blue skinned humanoids from a larger-than earth planet, making them physically more powerful than humans) came to earth millions of years ago and experimented on early man for the purposes of making super soldiers for their war against the Skrulls (or whatever the MCU will replace the Skrulls with). The results were the Inhumans, a sub-race of super powered humans. The Kree abandoned their experiments, and left the advanced race of Inhumans on earth, for reasons. They lived in the secluded and advanced city of Attilan isolated from primitive mankind (high in the Himalayas). Each Inhuman manifests different powers and abilities and sometimes physical mutations/transformations when they are exposed to a substance called terrigen, which can be bound up in crystalline form or dispersed as a mist. Apart from the mutations and powers caused by the terrigen, Inhumans are naturally stronger and longer lived than normal humans due to the Kree engineering.

The speculation regarding the Guest House Kree which others have suggested is that it was possibly genetically programmed to come to earth and find the Inhumans they had left there (maybe it was a Pursuer), so he had a map of Attilan hard coded into his DNA so it was always accessible. Why Inhumans like Skye would not react the way Coulson and the others did to the GH serum is unknown, since the Kree would not technically be Inhuman. However, it is probable that in the MCU, the Inhumans were created by mixing human with Kree DNA. But you'd think that the map of the city would still appear to her, it just wouldn't drive her mad as it did to the baseline humans. Whatever it is, I'm sure we will find out soon.

The diviner might be a terrigen crystal, or whatever the MCU equivalent will be. Terrigen kills those who don't have pure enough genetics. In the recent Inhumanity storyline in the comics, terrigen mists were dispersed all over the earth. There were people with inhuman heritage to varying degrees, unbeknownst to them, everywhere, due to a faction of inhumans that left Attilan long ago and dispersed among the general human populace. When the terrigen hit them, they went into cocoons, some dying horribly disfigured and others emerging with Inhuman powers. The diviner could be an MCU version of this.

Ahhh, that is very helpful. Thank you.

I finally got a chance to watch the last episode, and I'm left with two thoughts.

Spoiler

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One, Skye's dad is really entertaining. You know, when he's not murdering people. I'm looking forward to him sticking around.

And on the other hand, Ward is ******* terrifying. That dude has lost it, and I think his character is only going to get darker from here. I just cannot believe that I spent season one thinking he was your typical boring hero. I was so ridiculously wrong.

[Yana]

Spoiler

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Ward is ******* terrifying. That dude has lost it, and I think his character is only going to get darker from here. I just cannot believe that I spent season one thinking he was your typical boring hero. I was so ridiculously wrong.

I think that was the entire point. The writing staff of AoS has my respect for pulling something like that off.

[DigoDragon]

I finally got a chance to watch the last episode, and I'm left with two thoughts.

Spoiler

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One, Skye's dad is really entertaining. You know, when he's not murdering people. I'm looking forward to him sticking around.

And on the other hand, Ward is ******* terrifying. That dude has lost it, and I think his character is only going to get darker from here. I just cannot believe that I spent season one thinking he was your typical boring hero. I was so ridiculously wrong.

My two thoughts~

Spoiler

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1. Yeah I do agree that Skye's dad is a neat character when not killin'. His banter is fun.

2. During that scene with the thee (Ward, Skye's dad, and... Hydra boss guy) I couldn't help but think that these guys are going to end up murdering each other. Ward was so calm and collected in that meeting considering he killed his family. It's like... yikes.

[Helanna]

I think that was the entire point. The writing staff of AoS has my respect for pulling something like that off.

Oh I'm sure it was. And they also have my great respect because I really spent season one thinking 'ugh, this guy is so boring. He is never going to not be boring.' I mean, I fell for it 110%.

My two thoughts~

Spoiler

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1. Yeah I do agree that Skye's dad is a neat character when not killin'. His banter is fun.

2. During that scene with the thee (Ward, Skye's dad, and... Hydra boss guy) I couldn't help but think that these guys are going to end up murdering each other. Ward was so calm and collected in that meeting considering he killed his family. It's like... yikes.

Spoiler

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I was surprised they all ended up together, since I'm pretty sure each one blatantly wants to kill one or both of the others. But I have a feeling that's going to make the rest of this season very interesting . . . And fun to watch.

[The New Bruceski]

It was like watching three unfamiliar cats around one bowl of food.

[LaZodiac]

It was like watching three unfamiliar cats around one bowl of food.

Imagine how things are gonna turn out when Doctor Dad finds out Ward's only motivation is his daughter. That'll be sitcom level awkward.

[TheOldCrow]

Imagine how things are gonna turn out when Doctor Dad finds out Ward's only motivation is his daughter. That'll be sitcom level awkward.

Spoiler: All In The Family

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It was Raina's suggestion that Ward could be a monster with Skye. I would think Raina would have mentioned Ward's obsession to Skye Daddy when she went to find him.

[Petrocorus]

Oh I'm sure it was. And they also have my great respect because I really spent season one thinking 'ugh, this guy is so boring. He is never going to not be boring.' I mean, I fell for it 110%.

Look at episode 1x18, about 20th minute. The conversation between Raina and Ward, in which Ward explain that everything he did in the 16 first episodes, including jumping from the bus to catch Simmons in free fall and getting "involved" with May was calculated and made in order to get everyone trust. Basically forced the viewer to rethink the whole characterisation of the guy for the whole season.
Note that personally, i didn't think he was boring, just not original, the classic marty sue action hero.

Now, if you think aboutwhat Raina told him in the last episodes of S1 and what Coulson ask him in the last moments of the ast episode of S2 ("Who are you without [Garrett]?"). That probably played a role in his current evolution and behaviour.

[Yana]

Thanks to Netflix for getting AoS season one, I've been rewatching a few episodes. It really is quite disturbing to see Ward in action with the power of hindsight.

[LaZodiac]

Thanks to Netflix for getting AoS season one, I've been rewatching a few episodes. It really is quite disturbing to see Ward in action with the power of hindsight.

Yup! Especially the episode with the Berserker Staff. Think about it...all that really did was reveal his true self.

[comicshorse]

Yup! Especially the episode with the Berserker Staff. Think about it...all that really did was reveal his true self.

And the episode with Lorlei. Did Ward get enthralled by her so easily because he was dumb or because that kind of complete control by somebody else was what Ward really wanted

[LaZodiac]

And the episode with Lorlei. Did Ward get enthralled by her so easily because he was dumb or because that kind of complete control by somebody else was what Ward really wanted

And then keep in mind taht after Lorelei's control if taken off...he takes a shot at May. He explained it as still being under her control for a bit, but now we know it was intentional. And that's awesome.

[BRC]

And the episode with Lorlei. Did Ward get enthralled by her so easily because he was dumb or because that kind of complete control by somebody else was what Ward really wanted

I mean, it's a thing that Lorlei enthralls men. It's not a matter of it being Easy, it just happens.

That said, Ward's bit about having no Delusions that Lorlei saw him as anything but a puppet. Ward Revels in his role as a puppet.

Hrmmm

Spoiler: Psychoanalyzing Grant Ward

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I think the Incident at the Well, whether you believe Grant Ward or his brother, encapsulates Ward's Psyche.

Grant Ward is a bad person. He revels in Violence, he is cruel, and he enjoys it.

Ward is not stupid, but he does have a very specific delusion. Namely, he firmly believes that he bears no responsibility for his own actions provided he was acting under somebody else's orders.

In his version of the Well story, his older brother "Made" him throw his younger brother down the well. How exactly he "Made" him do it isn't clear, but from Ward's perspective, it is not his fault, it is his brother's fault.

I think that he honestly believes his "I was just doing that because Garret told me to" defense.

While Loreli's other Thralls believe that she loves them, Ward is under no such delusion. He knows that she'll throw him away as soon as she's done with him. He's perfectly comfortable with this. He's used to being a tool of somebody else's will. In fact, that is where he feels the most comfortable, because he can do what he loves without feeling remorse.

[Petrocorus]

I mean, it's a thing that Lorlei enthralls men. It's not a matter of it being Easy, it just happens.

That said, Ward's bit about having no Delusions that Lorlei saw him as anything but a puppet. Ward Revels in his role as a puppet.

Hrmmm

Spoiler: Psychoanalyzing Grant Ward

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I think the Incident at the Well, whether you believe Grant Ward or his brother, encapsulates Ward's Psyche.

Grant Ward is a bad person. He revels in Violence, he is cruel, and he enjoys it.

Spoiler: Ward

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I don't think he enjoys it, i think it's worse that this, i think he's actually unable to even think to any other way to act or to deal with any given situation.

Spoiler

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Ward is not stupid, but he does have a very specific delusion. Namely, he firmly believes that he bears no responsibility for his own actions provided he was acting under somebody else's orders.

In his version of the Well story, his older brother "Made" him throw his younger brother down the well. How exactly he "Made" him do it isn't clear, but from Ward's perspective, it is not his fault, it is his brother's fault.

Spoiler: The well

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Concerning the Incident of the Well, several peoples here seem prompt to believe Older Ward's version (forgot his first name). I'm personally incline to believe that Older Ward was actually not innocent in this particular incident.. Note the parents were apparently less than perfect themselves

Spoiler

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I think that he honestly believes his "I was just doing that because Garret told me to" defense.

While Loreli's other Thralls believe that she loves them, Ward is under no such delusion. He knows that she'll throw him away as soon as she's done with him. He's perfectly comfortable with this. He's used to being a tool of somebody else's will. In fact, that is where he feels the most comfortable, because he can do what he loves without feeling remorse.

Spoiler: Indeed.

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I concur with that, Ward seems eager to be loyal to someone, so not to have to make decision or to have to make judgement calls. Taking a moral decision seems actually hard for him. The guy has clearly mental issues and is probably the poster boy of nevropath / sociopath / psychopath (i personally never knew the difference).

[BRC]

Spoiler: The well

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Concerning the Incident of the Well, several peoples here seem prompt to believe Older Ward's version (forgot his first name). I'm personally incline to believe that Older Ward was actually not innocent in this particular incident.. Note the parents were apparently less than perfect themselves

Spoiler

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As I see it, it dosn't really matter.

If Grant Ward's version is true, then this might have been the source of his mindset. He rationalized the incident by putting the blame on his brother for "Forcing" him to throw their younger brother down the well. He then moves on to applying this mindset to his life. Its not his fault if somebody else told him to do it.

If Christian Ward's version is true, then the incident at the well is just the earliest known example of Grant Ward trying to rationalize his actions by blaming somebody else. He already believed that he bore no responsibility for actions done at the behest of another, so tried to rationalize the Well by convincing himself that Christian Forced him to do it.

[Petrocorus]

Spoiler

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As I see it, it dosn't really matter.

If Grant Ward's version is true, then this might have been the source of his mindset. He rationalized the incident by putting the blame on his brother for "Forcing" him to throw their younger brother down the well. He then moves on to applying this mindset to his life. Its not his fault if somebody else told him to do it.

If Christian Ward's version is true, then the incident at the well is just the earliest known example of Grant Ward trying to rationalize his actions by blaming somebody else. He already believed that he bore no responsibility for actions done at the behest of another, so tried to rationalize the Well by convincing himself that Christian Forced him to do it.

Actually a good sum up. I personally look forward to learn more about his past, and notably his parents. Ward has turned out to be a very interesting character, in the not-likeable sense.

As an quite related note, i was rewatching some of the last episode of last season, and i wonder how Ward has been able to through all SHIELD's psych evaluations without switching a red light? And how Garrett has been able to hide the bionic implants with embedded Centipede from SHIELD's medical?