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Thread: Red Flags for DMs?
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2017-05-03, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
I honestly didn't mean to offend you. Sorry if it came across that way!
No kind of economy works in D&D. :p
However, for that kind of discussion (which would be off-topic here anyway) we'd first need to agree on whether we are talking "USA socialism" or "socialism socialism". I mean, for a lot of Americans, every ounce of social equity agenda immediately gets tagged "socialism", including the systems of most European countries, although said countries do not consider themselves "socialist".
Anyway, I don't mean to derail the thread. Back to topic. ^^Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.
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2017-05-03, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
you're right.. I edited stuff. It's still a wall of text though.
I have, and I understand.
That said, I was more wondering about this from the perspective of the DM. Running a game for a group of players that has 1 or 2 jerks in it, must be doable when you're the DM... easier at least than when you are a player and the jerk happens to be the DM.
That said, I have gone through dry spells of not playing for lack of players and/or DM before, some of those spells even lasting years. I'd still prefer them to having to play with a master who really doesn't fit my idea of fantasy, or gaming, or my game in general... I could have played 4ed easier, during those years, what with there being plenty of games running in that edition.
I chose not to. Hell.. there were even times when I chose to not join a game because all the players were students (as in high school) and I would have been wildly out of place and with no common ground whatsoever other than the game. Did I miss out? possibly, but then.. once the game was wrapped for the night, I would have had nothing in common with those guys and I'd have gotten a few stares from concerned parents (I'm 38). Not worth it.
I seriously prefer to not play than to play with people I actively dislike or can't relate to.
As a DM though, it must be possible to just take the jerk to one side and tell him "listen, either conform to the rules/stop doing that specific thing/ don't purposedly antagonise the other players and/or characters or I'll start putting restrictions to what you can or cannot get away with".
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2017-05-03, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
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2017-05-03, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
the DM who never has been a player, or the DM that has played only enough times to count on one hand then tells you he is going to run a "huge" campaign,
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2017-05-03, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
or the time I experienced.. we all sit down me and 2 other players get everything ready and the DM says " alright lets start and slams the DMG on the table like he's a lawyer with a highlighter, I don't have no problem with rules but sometimes to many rules is no fun, that game was more of disputing rules and reality vs. fun with friends
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2017-05-03, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Nah, I'm just pulling your leg, I'm not thin-skinned to get angry about strangers on the internet.
Back on topic, another sign of a bad DM: Terrible personal hygiene.
Like seriously man, we're gonna sit around you for 2 to 12 hours, the least you can do is wear some dehodorant and brush your teeth. Cologne is only gonna make you stink if you don't frigging shower.OotS Avatar by Linklele.
Spoiler: When early morn walks forth in sober grey. - William BlakeOft when the summer sleeps among the trees,
Whispering faint murmurs to the scanty breeze,
I walk the village round; if at her side
A youth doth walk in stolen joy and pride,
I curse my stars in bitter grief and woe,
That made my love so high and me so low.
O should she e'er prove false, his limbs I'd tear
And throw all pity on the burning air;
I'd curse bright fortune for my mixed lot,
And then I'd die in peace, and be forgot.
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2017-05-03, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
[QUOTE=Mikemical;21977945]Nah, I'm just pulling your leg, I'm not thin-skinned to get angry about strangers on the internet.
Back on topic, another sign of a bad DM: Terrible personal hygiene.
absolutely agreed, not willing to shower not willing to put time in on adventure
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2017-05-03, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2014
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
I detect a common theme here.
But reading BoEF, actually reading it, with comprehension, can only be a good thing. If you don't wanna include the topic of sex in your campaign under any form, that's fine. But it is still part of human experience(one might say a major part) that should be open for exploration in games. I'd say you start at a yellow flag and escalate to red, the younger the DM is.
As for Ironclaw and its ilk, I cannot speak of the actual mechanical merits of the system, but apart from the obvious association with furries that you seem to wanna draw attention to, I see nothing wrong with it. Looks more like disney cartoons TBH. The subject matter doesn't automatically squick everybody out.
So... these aren't really obvious Red Flags in the slightest.
Except FATAL, that's not a red flag either. That's a run-in-the-opposite-direction-as-fast-as-possible flag.
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2017-05-03, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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2017-05-03, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
I've read parts of the BOEF...And it did actually address homosexuality in a semi-serious manner which was something that wasn't going to happen in 3rd edition. So technically, you could use the BOEG and have nothing more sexual then that dude dwarf is married to that other dude dwarf.
Personally, even if I have never played Cthulhutech I'd place it into the definite yellow flag territory from what I have heard of it. So you admit to enjoying a game with snuff porn adventures? Yeah, that's not reassuring.For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.
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2017-05-03, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
I hate this one. And way too many GMs do it - "Simon Says" style GMing, where even when there's no conceivable reason that an action makes sense to the character, and is only happening because the player misheard or forgot to say something, it happens, no takeback! And why? So they can laugh about how they "outsmarted" the players by doing a bad job at providing an interface?
If your Concentration skill is high enough to always succeed at casting defensively (which it really should be by epic level), then I recommend making a big sign that says "Always Casting Defensively" and set it on the table next to you.
Related, GMs who discourage or hinder taking 10 / taking 20.
* No, taking 10 does not take ten times as long. RTFM!
* No, being in a generally tense situation like "inside enemy territory" does not prevent taking 10, only being directly under threat or directly distracted does that.
* If you ban taking 20, but leave other rules the same, people will just roll 20+ times. How is that better?
* And no, skill checks do not auto-fail on a natural '1'. RTFM, again!
Maybe if your game requires PCs randomly screwing up on non-hard tasks, then your game is bad and you should feel bad.
Somewhat tangentially:
You're free not to like psionics, but the mechanics of (3.x) psionics match up to most fantasy source material better than pseudo-vancian magic does. Heck, the "vancian" magic used in D&D doesn't even match the way it works in Vance's stories!Last edited by icefractal; 2017-05-03 at 04:02 PM.
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2017-05-03, 04:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
It also has some interesting options for characters who want children but wouldn't normally be able to have them. I actually had a character once who had that as a motivation - her and her partner weren't able to have children naturally, so they were seeking a solution.
Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
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2017-05-03, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
For all of your completely and utterly honest needs. Zaydos made, Tiefling approved.
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2017-05-03, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2017-05-03, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
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2017-05-03, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
This. I'm a ****, and I trained at the Grognard School of "Git Gud", and firmly believe in player skills, but even I will ask, "are you sure? / anything you want to tell me?" before taking unnecessary AoOs. In part because some players would rather risk being hit and maybe losing the spell to just maybe losing the spell.
In WoD Mage, I took a merit called Strong Will for one of my characters, which basically allows the chance for free expenditures of Willpower on tasks with difficulty 6 or higher. Because I, too, am absent minded, I made the blanket statement that, with that character, I was always spending Willpower on any task diff 6 or higher (and not on any task diff 5 or lower) unless I said otherwise. Worked like a charm - and helped me remember about spending Willpower.
A GM that doesn't accept such a blanket statement, and doesn't register the difference between the player and the character, is a huge red flag.
I play wizards. DM says he doesn't like wizards, I build a Cleric of Azuth, or an Arcane Spellcaster, or a... many of which the DM may hate on even more than he did a wizard, if he doesn't tell me why be doesn't like wizards. If course, if he doesn't like them because they obsolete other characters, I'll happily bring Quertus, no problem. Or, you know, build a non-wizard who has a niche, and plays well with others.
On the other hand, if the DM doesn't like wizards because they obsolete his plot, well, that's a big red flag.
Or, you know, saying you don't like monks, but don't explain that it's because they don't fit the theme, and the player may well respond with, "that's ok, I've got this great idea for an alien Psion based on..." Yeah, save yourself the hassle, and explain yourself.
A DM who cannot communicate well enough to explain "why" is a big ol' red flag.
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I'm baffled by your narrow-minded mages and clerics who "know" how the world works. Are there more details which make this make sense?
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I occasionally ask players to roll for seemingly trivial things because...
* sometimes, they'll get bonuses for doing better than what they're trying to do.
* sometimes, people are watching, who are observing exactly how well they do.
* sometimes to obfuscate the above reasons.
* sometimes because I don't know that it's an auto-success for them - I don't care about their sheets.
* sometimes to work on those player skills of, "I test the rope before using it".
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As to running your own game... This isn't a problem! Just explain things, and get player buy-in on the "git gud" school of thought (that, you know, they've been forcing on you), where any given encounter may well be a TPK level of challenge, and it's on the players to be careful enough to survive.
It helps you to get in character, of course. It lets you feel the frustration your character is feeling at having to repeat the same task over and over again. Works especially well when the GM makes the roll for you, where you don't know if you could have done better.
Can you explain these?
Listen, young'un, ain't nothin' wrong with spending time with your elders, or with those dang youths and their hippy nonsense. Many of my friends are less than half your age, and I've taught several 7-year-olds to play d20. The new generation's gotta learn to play somehow, and I don't want them picking up bad habits from their hippy friends, and using those bad habits to create another 4th edition. Digest that, then get off my lawn!
Totally agree that a jerk DM is way, way worse than a jerk player.
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2017-05-03, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
It isn't a given that my character is feeling frustrated. Maybe he enjoys doing this and doesn't mind having to try repeatedly. Maybe he has a zen attitude about it and doesn't let little setbacks bother him. Or maybe the game's default assumption of "you're failing several times before you succeed" is not applicable in this instance and he's just taking his sweet time for whatever reason. I'm the one who decides how my character feels about what he's doing.
But even if we assume my character is feeling frustrated, it isn't necessary for me to feel the same thing in order to roleplay the character. I don't point a gun in your face when my character makes an Intimidate check against an NPC, so please don't try to make me feel like you think my character "should". You are not Stanley Kubrick.
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2017-05-03, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2016
Re: Red Flags for DMs?
So in order.
The Survival thing comes from playing several survival campgains. Now while I don't mind them, and I've had a few fun ones. The issue comes when you are level one. Make your character sheet get all your equipment and then you enter th4 game and get told you have nothing. Not even clothes. And you now must survive. So unless you are a caster. You are usless. So whenever someone says 'Survival Setting in 3.5' the warning bells begin to ring.
The second one involves mostly during the game aspects and it has reared it's ugly head more then once where a DM would talk about this book they've recently read. Mention some silly puzzle or trap. Then the next session make the party deal with the trap or puzzle. Without any context. It's difficult to understand that the key to the room is that random squiggly line on the wall when you've mentioned there's other lines on the wall. And described how all of them mean something diffrent. None relating to the problem at hand, but instead the prophecy that the protagonist in that book you read heard.
Now I care little if you take ideas. Everyone does it. It's part of being a DM. Getting inspiration. But when you use stuff word for word in the wrong setting. It makes life difficult for anyone who doesn't know the setting. It's even worst the DM says there setting is based on a book. And then it is the book.
Challenge Ratings are an important aspect of DND. Many people know what they are. Some don't. These people shouldn't be DMs as they see a cool Monster have the party fight it. And the party gets wrecked. Because who knew that an Acid spitting winged Monster is dangerous to level 3s? Basically it's something that takes place during the game that lets you know that you've walked into a bad time. It generally becomes obvious in the first session.
And finally. Punishing players for RP. This is a recent one for me. Never heard of it tell my last DM and apperently it got worst according to a friend who decides to play in a one shot with said DM. Now. Imagine your role-playing, everyone is role-playing. Everyone is having fun. Then you hear the DM roll dice you stop and look to them and they say "As no one was paying attention to there surroundings 'x' is attacked taking 48 damage and being knocked out"
Seems normal enough right. Random encounter. No problems. But a trend forms. If the party role plays for to long. The DM gets bored and something horrible happens. We've lost all our money due to pick pocketed while we where shopping and rping. Had a shop keeper attack us for 'wasting his time' by asking about his skills. Set upon by an orc raiding party as we sat in a cave with no fire as we had no wood and just talking in character. The list goes on.
Overall. While it's hard to notice at first. You soon pick up on it. And it makes already non roleplayers struggle even more to move outside there comfort zone. Leading just me and one guy to rp between ourselves all the time. But this was apperently disrupting the session. We then later found out that only our bank accounts had problems causing us to lose half our wealth. Good times.
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2017-05-03, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
I'm not really certain I would be all that frustrated IRL if it took me two minutes to attempt to something difficult.
For what it's worth taking 20 is actually not the same as rolling a d20 20 times. Because of probabilities and stuff. You could get a 20 on the first roll, or not until the 100th one.
Flirting and romance are better just handled with RP. And even those are somewhat minimal in most games I play.Last edited by Zanos; 2017-05-03 at 10:52 PM.
If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!
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2017-05-03, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-05-04, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Personally, I don't mind reasonable adjusted rules. If the DM wants to curb disjunction, the polymorph school (or just shapechange) or remove the darkstalker feat that's fine. What irks me is inconsistency.
Also when personal prejudices get in the way of proper adjudication:
DM: "I don't see how anyone could balance on clouds...even with a 120 balance"
Rogue: "Ok, I guess I cast fly"
DM: "That works."
The other thing is a sentiment that it is a "players vs the DM" scenario instead of a collaborative storytelling effort. If he gets angry, competitive or unreasonable punishes player successes.
DM: "You're leg got caught in the web...and the spiders are coming. The whole tunnel is filled with webs...and spiders. You have three rounds."
Paladin: "I've been saving this potion of freedom of movement for three levels...I drink it and run"
DM: "Umm...what potion of Freedom of Movement?"
Paladin: "The one the high priest of Hieronious gave me for rescuing his cat from the neighbors hell hound"
DM: "It doesn't work"
Player: "why...?"
DM: "You tell me? Maybe it was water."
Paladin: "I guess I try to break free..."
DM: "Too late, the spiders are on you. I don't know why you guys keep dying..."
Another, terribly rude DM adjudication:
DM: "You enter the dungeon and come to a chasm and a rope bridge, on the other side are two statues"
Player: "I carefully cross the bridge."
DM: "You've wandered around for a while...all of your precasts would be expired. Roll init."
Player: "1"
You're probably shouldn't make a big investment in your character (in fact I would just use blank character sheets and consistently fail at everything) if your DM is like this:
DM: "Five ruffians are roughing up the bartender. He cries for help as they strike him and others pour out his lockbox and drink down his ale"
Player: "I compliment the ruffians on their style and ask to join their gang."
DM: "The bartender casts meteor swarm at you."
Player: "Can I play another bard?"Last edited by Mauvar; 2017-05-04 at 12:33 AM.
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2017-05-04, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly mind an age gap. I'm already the old guy in my group, where ages go from my 38 to the DM's girlfriend (her being that is not much of a problem) who is in her mid 20's. Nothing wrong with that. Back when I lived in England, I was 29, the DM 19.. it was cool.
And should any child relative/ child of a friend request to play, I would have 0 problems with it. Since however most of my social life these days revolves around the people I play with (aside from my partner's friends, that is), I'd rather have people I have at least a passing affinity with outside the gaming world. If you're 15/20 and your main concerns are getting permission from your mom to hang out, preparing for a test the next day, dabbing, one direction and today's equivalent of Hannah Montana, and you can't tell what show our movie classic I'm quoting during the game, then chances are you and me won't have much in common and unless you're a relative or a friend's relative, I have little interest in committing anyway. This is doubly true if you're going to be the DM and I've got to argue common sense with you at every turn.
That's not to say everybody half my age would be that way, but the odds aren't really reassuring, especially so here in Italy, where a generation gap really tends to be rather wide.
Also, it's usually my lawn, so shove off yourself!
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2017-05-04, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-05-04, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-05-04, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
I don't get it. Unless you're a Silver Dragon or have magic boots, cloudwalking is a flat-out, completely impossibly thing.
Is this an Epic Level Handbook sorta thing? I'm down with DMs banning special outcomes for triple digit skill checks.
The statues attacking you on the bridge is an edge case. On one hand, it's a fairly basic way to start a combat encounter. On the other hand, you should tell a player how fast time is going, so they can buff, explore or retreat accordingly.
All the others are textbook examples of DMs stomping on players for no good reason.Last edited by Shark Uppercut; 2017-05-04 at 02:32 AM.
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2017-05-04, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2017-05-04, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2017-05-04, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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2017-05-04, 07:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
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2017-05-04, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Red Flags for DMs?
To these, I raise this:
Also, because I've had bad experiences with DMs trying to get us(the players) to enter their magical realms. There are limits of how much you can try to push something under the table before anyone notices what you're doing.Then again, I'm guilty of having allowed some of it go undetected but only because it catered to my own fetishes, and it was subtle so it didn't really squick anyone out.But that's besides the point.
Also, sexuality can turn obnoxious if it's made out to be a character's first defining trait. Allow me to elaborate:
If I play a barbarian who comes from a tribe that views same-sex relationships as normal because where they live is basically Skyrim, but don't bring it up unless asked about in character or some event allows him to comment on it in a semi-serious game, that's okay.
If I play a barbarian who dresses in drag and spends every waking hour trying to hook up with cute, weaker boys in a very pushy manner in what's supposed to be a semi-serious game, that's being obnoxious, rude, offensive and I deserve being punched in the face.
If from the start we all agree "this is gonna be an ERP", I'm fine with people detailing stuff like a character's girth and how tight their rear is, because hey, I signed up for this. If we agree on playing Vanilla, PG15 D&D and you try to turn it into 50 shades of Grey without explicit consent, I'm walking out of the game and telling everyone you're a weirdo.OotS Avatar by Linklele.
Spoiler: When early morn walks forth in sober grey. - William BlakeOft when the summer sleeps among the trees,
Whispering faint murmurs to the scanty breeze,
I walk the village round; if at her side
A youth doth walk in stolen joy and pride,
I curse my stars in bitter grief and woe,
That made my love so high and me so low.
O should she e'er prove false, his limbs I'd tear
And throw all pity on the burning air;
I'd curse bright fortune for my mixed lot,
And then I'd die in peace, and be forgot.