Avengers: Infinity War

[Ramza00]

Ok I should have mentioned my review before. It was a good movie overall. So much action and excitement. The only part that I didn't like was the ending of the movie. It was so anti-cilmatic. They directors and writers of this movie could have come up with a better ending or at least end the Avengers movie series until they make a remake of it. But overall it was a good movie. I'll give it four out of five stars.

I am not disagreeing with you but I quoted you to repeat what you said for I agree with it for the most part and what you said is well said.

On the subject of so much action and excitement

The movie does has its problems (remember you can have problems and still be a good movie or an average movie ). One of the problems of Avengers 3 is that it pure rising action and for 150 minutes that is too much rising action for most people. There is a reason movies often have a 3 or 5 act action structure to help people have a few minute break from all the rising action or else it becomes a blur in the end. Even if the ending is superbly written it will be less enjoyable if you been on pure rising action for 150 minutes.

Sure you may like it when you leave the theater, but give it a week, two weeks, or a month and you will probably like it less. This is because human perception, consciousness, and long term memory abilities can't handle that much rising action for so long.

So while it is a good movie it probably would been more effective when you watch it at home again on streaming or blu ray to instead watch it in chunks like a 3 episode mini series. I did not time the specific scene changes so I can't tell you off the top of my head where to break this into chunk A, chunk B, and chunk C but as I get older and have more movie / storytelling experience I can recognize that this movie would be superior by allowing the viewer to take some breaks for there literally is no breaks in the rising action.

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Some good storytelling stuff on this subject can be found in this specific youtube video and these 2 vox article



https://www.vox.com/2015/4/2/8335137...s-recap-review

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/29/120466...nd-act-problem (the 2nd article is far more relevant to Avengers Infinity War but you need to understand some of the film studies term that the first article introduces.)

Some spoiler thoughts on what I wrote.

Spoiler: Specific scenes in Infnity War and a favor to ask please

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Somebody time this for me, for I am really curious. Can someone when they watch this movie for a 2nd time, use a clock and tell me how many minutes into the movie these 2 scenes occur.

1.) When Wong, Tony, and company stop talking about infinity stones (this specific time), for Tony asks about Strange's hair, and then the group go outside to see the spaceship that Ebony Maw and Cull Obsidian / Black Dwarf come from?

2.) When the Ebony Maw Spaceship first goes into Space with Strange and Spiderman is in tow.

I ask for these specific times for in a 2 act or 3 act movie Scene 2 is when Act 2 begins and Scene 1 is the transition point from Act 1 to Act 2 with the conflict now appearing on screen instead of merely exposition.

Ala



If I were to guess from memory and not recording this is what 20 minutes in for Scene 1 when we stop talking about the infinity stones and we move to the aliens invade new york. And probably 30 minutes in for the Spaceship in Space.

That leaves a 2+ hour Act 2, and their is no Act 3. All rising action no climax for the most part.

Edit: Before I hit post I could make the argument Act 2 happens with Human Vision and Scarlet Witch in Scotland and them being attacked, so maybe we can say 40 mins in. That is because if I recall correctly after the Spaceship enters space the Guardians found Thor and there is more exposition including splitting the party, followed by the scene moving to Human Vision Scarlet Witch and the Scotland attack.

This movie is just too long with no tonal break to cause a few minutes of chill. It feels like the Two Towers theatrical movie length even though that movie has about 30 odd more minutes of length on this Avengers 3 movie.

Oh on the subject of movies with a messed up act structure that are Tolkein adjacent, may I also recommend the Lindsay Elis 3 video series on how the Hobbit movies would have been so much better as a 2 movie picture for it fixes the problem with pacing and where you end the film and yadda yadda stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRU...7q4auhq_QS2wnr

Edit:Sidenote it is unclear how long this movie for I am getting multiple sources from the internet. I am curious how long this movie is from start credits to ending credits (not counting the scenes after the credits).

[Bartmanhomer]

I am not disagreeing with you but I quoted you to repeat what you said for I agree with it for the most part and what you said is well said.

On the subject of so much action and excitement

The movie does has its problems (remember you can have problems and still be a good movie or an average movie ). One of the problems of Avengers 3 is that it pure rising action and for 160 minutes that is too much rising action for most people. There is a reason movies often have a 3 or 5 action structure to help people have a few minute break from all the rising action or else it becomes a blur in the end. Even if the ending is superbly written it will be less enjoyable if you been on pure rising action for 150 minutes.

Sure you may like it when you leave the theater, but give it a week, two weeks, or a month and you will probably like it less. This is because human perception, consciousness, and long term memory abilities can't handle that much rising action for so long.

So while it is a good movie it probably would been more effective when you watch it at home again on streaming or blu ray to instead watch it in chunks like a 3 episode mini series. I did not time the specific scene changes so I can't tell you off the top of my head where to break this into chunk A, chunk B, and chunk C but as I get older and have more movie / storytelling experience I can recongize that this movie would be superior by allowing the viewer to take some breaks for there literally is no breaks in the rising action.

----

Some good storytelling stuff on this subject can be found in this specific youtube video and these 2 vox article



https://www.vox.com/2015/4/2/8335137...s-recap-review

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/29/120466...nd-act-problem (the 2nd article is far more relevant to Avengers Infinity War but you need to understand some of the film studies term that the first article introduces.)

Some spoiler thoughts on what I wrote.

Spoiler: Specific scenes in Infnity War and a favor to ask please

Show

Somebody time this for me, for I am really curious. Can someone when they watch this movie for a 2nd time, use a clock and tell me how many minutes into the movie these 2 scenes occur.

1.) When Wong, Tony, and company stop talking about infinity stones (this specific time), for Tony asks about Strange's hair, and then the group go outside to see the spaceship that Ebony Maw and Cull Obsidian / Black Dwarf come from?

2.) When the Ebony Maw Spaceship first goes into Space with Strange and Spiderman is in tow.

I ask for these specific times for in a 2 act or 3 act movie Scene 2 is when Act 2 begins and Scene 1 is the transition point from Act 1 to Act 2 with the conflict now appearing on screen instead of merely exposition.

Ala



If I were to guess from memory and not recording this is what 20 minutes in for Scene 1 when we stop talking about the infinity stones and we move to the aliens invade new york. And probably 30 minutes in for the Spaceship in Space.

That leaves a 2+ hour Act 2, and their is no Act 3. All rising action no climax for the most part.

Edit: Before I hit post I could make the argument Act 2 happens with Human Vision and Scarlet Witch in Scotland and them being attacked, so maybe we can say 40 mins in. That is because if I recall correctly after the Spaceship enters space the Guardians found Thor and there is more exposition including splitting the party, followed by the scene moving to Human Vision Scarlet Witch and the Scotland attack.

This movie is just too long with no tonal break to cause a few minutes of chill. It feels like the Two Towers theatrical movie length even though that movie has about 30 odd more minutes of length on this Avengers 3 movie.

Oh on the subject of movies with a messed up act structure that are Tolkein adjacent, may I also recommend the Lindsay Elis 3 video series on how the Hobbit movies would have been so much better as a 2 movie picture for it fixes the problem with pacing and where you end the film and yadda yadda stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRU...7q4auhq_QS2wnr

Wow that an interesting perspective. I would have rated a 3 out of 5 stars for this movie but this movie deserve a 4 because it was a good movie despite the bad ending of it. If it was perfect 5 star rating it would be a perfect movie with a perfect ending which perhaps ending the Avengers movie series. So you're right about everything you said about it.

[Christian]

Spoiler: Plot spoiler ahead--click at your own risk!

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The character I feel worst for is Rocket. That poor fella's lost two Groots now.

I mean, those don't grow on trees.

[Ramza00]

Spoiler: Plot spoiler ahead--click at your own risk!

Show

The character I feel worst for is Rocket. That poor fella's lost two Groots now.

I mean, those don't grow on trees.

Responding to Christian

Comparing Infinity War's Characters to a previous MCU Movie... Spoilers

Spoiler

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(pointing stuff out to myself, reflecting while talking to others, not really having a story to tell)

So while Infinity War's Starlord has completely regressed and is even worse than his Guardians of the Galaxy 2 version maturity wise (He seems far more sensitive, very defensive and reactive aggressive, he is far more emotionally raw. You can tell Quill is definitely not done dealing with grief of losing his adoptive father, and how he is currently dealing with feelings he can not process is adopting a false form of masculinity where he must challenge everyone, taking an existing unhelpful trait and making it 2 maybe 3 times worse.)

Rocket seems to have grown and is far more empathetic and while his hair still rise at being called a rabbit and other characterizations he does not self destruct in a way that Peter Quill / Starlord does.

And now they made my Rocket lose a 2nd Groot. Now when I say Groot I very much have the opinion that Groot is a completely different character than the original self since his memories are not preserved and he has a different personality.
It is his "clone son" for plants have several different methods of making clones that animals do not.

[Lethologica]

Spoiler

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Yeah, pretty clear you both missed that theme. The message of the movie is "How far are you willing to go to be a hero? To save the world?" Thanos is a creature of will, and the only one willing to make a tremendous sacrifice to get what he wants. Loki won't let Thor die, Peter won't up and kill Gamora before it's too late, Wanda doesn't kill Vision until it's too late, and Strange hands over the Time Stone (likely because it's required to reach that one particular outcome he foresaw them winning in). They're not plot holes. They're literally the message of the movie.

Something can be an intentional part of the message and still be repetitive, anvilicious, and unsatisfying. At least, that's how I personally felt about those scenes. Pretty much the only thing that kept the movie from being completely predictable for me was that I didn't know it was part one of two.

[LaZodiac]

Aaaaah, good film. Some highlights.

Spoiler

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If Thanos didn't have the reality stone Gamora would of straight up merced his ass. The Mad Titan, genuinely taken aback at his favorite daughter going straight for the throat. I loved this.

If not for the Gamora being dead part, our heroes WOULD OF WON. They BEAT THANOS. They had the gauntlet almost off. They had him. That's honestly brilliant because it shows how much effort you need to beat this guy, but you also show that he IS defeatable, without lessening the impact that he is just this behemoth.

The character interaction was the best part of the film, seeing how everyone interacted with each other, it was great. I felt it gave great weight to the film, and every second of it was tense, even when cut with comedy.

So, personal theory: Everyone who died on screen is Dead Dead. Loki, Heimdal, Vision, they're Dead Dead. They're not coming back, no matter what. Everyone who got poofed is coming back, and Steve and Tony will die trying to bring them back while using the stones at the finale of the next film. The exception to this is Gamora, in that Starlord will return the soul stone to it's resting place with Red Skull, exchanging a soul for a soul and getting Gamora back. He will likely say a dirty joke when they wake up in the water together, and she'll punch him in he stupid face. It will be precious.

[AvatarVecna]

Went and saw this yesterday. Mixed feelings about the downer ending, but I got over it by reminding myself that this is just the first half of one long movie, so it doesn't have to be a complete story on its own.

Spoiler: My Death Toll Expectations

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People I expected to die...who didn't

Tony Stark, Captain America, Nebula, Thanos (classic monkey's paw, wishing for half the beings in the universe to die, and then losing that cosmic coinflip), Aunt May (well not confirmed anyway, so 50/50 odds she's still around)

People I expected to live...who didn't

Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Starlord, Spider-Man, Nick Fury

Also, I must admit I was a bit distracted during this movie every time Nicolas Cage as Captain America was on-screen.

[LaZodiac]

Went and saw this yesterday. Mixed feelings about the downer ending, but I got over it by reminding myself that this is just the first half of one long movie, so it doesn't have to be a complete story on its own.

Spoiler: My Death Toll Expectations

Show

People I expected to die...who didn't

Tony Stark, Captain America, Nebula, Thanos (classic monkey's paw, wishing for half the beings in the universe to die, and then losing that cosmic coinflip), Aunt May (well not confirmed anyway, so 50/50 odds she's still around)

People I expected to live...who didn't

Black Panther, Scarlet Witch, Starlord, Spider-Man, Nick Fury

Also, I must admit I was a bit distracted during this movie every time Nicolas Cage as Captain America was on-screen.

Awe, don't be like that. It's a good beard.

[Cozzer]

@AvatarVecna: Well, about death tolls...

Spoiler: BIG SPOILERS!

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Considering most of the vanished characters are the newest ones, and a few of them already have sequels lined up, it's a safe bet that the second part will be about recovering the Gems and using them to reverse The Fingersnap (it's already been estabilished with Thanos reversing Vision's death, and with Dr Strange implying The Fingersnap was part of his plan). Which means the characters who died in the end of this movie are the only ones who are safe from actually dying during the actual conflict. So I think your expectations are going to be mostly correct, in the end.

[AvatarVecna]

Awe, don't be like that. It's a good beard.

I'm not complaining about the beard, I'm just saying that the beard, haircut, and face all together make him really look like Nick Cage. Like, the whole time, whenever he started speaking, I felt like the wrong voice was coming out of his mouth. It's uncanny.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not complaining about the beard, I'm just saying that the beard, haircut, and face all together make him really look like Nick Cage. Like, the whole time, whenever he started speaking, I felt like the wrong voice was coming out of his mouth. It's uncanny.

I'm not gonna lie you're not wrong. I kinda hope he shaves it for next time.

[Aedilred]

Spoiler

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I will also say, there's something vaguely unsatisfying about Doctor Strange's part in this. I mean, at first it bothered me that he actually handed over the Time Stone despite his earlier warnings to Tony that he'd choose protecting it over protecting his or Peter's lives without hesitation, but after a moment to think about it it occurred to me that they're probably going for "he knows the one future in which they beat Thanos involves him getting all of the stones." Nonetheless, it feels less than satisfying that he didn't even try to make Thanos work for it, and especially that he never actually used the Time Stone against him. That's kind of the one major disappointment for me: the heroes had two of the Infinity Stones, one of which was in the hands of the most powerful magic-user on earth, and they never even tried to use them. Hell, Strange used the Time Stone to deal with Dormammu, so we know he's willing to use it when he has to, no excuses there.

Spoiler

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Well, I mean, he did. He used it to look into the futures and determine the route to defeating Thanos. He didn't use it in combat, but that doesn't mean he didn't use it to defeat Thanos in the long run. After all, he didn't use it as a combat weapon against Dormammu either.

Went and saw this yesterday. Mixed feelings about the UNTAGGED SPOILER, but I got over it by blah blah blah.

Might want to spoiler that...

I mean, it's nothing that couldn't be surmised, but the message I'm getting for this one is for no spoilers of any kind, which is fair enough.

[The Glyphstone]

I agree that Captain Beardmerica was just as weird for 2 hours as he was in the trailer.

[Zevox]

Spoiler

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Well, I mean, he did. He used it to look into the futures and determine the route to defeating Thanos. He didn't use it in combat, but that doesn't mean he didn't use it to defeat Thanos in the long run. After all, he didn't use it as a combat weapon against Dormammu either.

Spoiler

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Eh, I guess you can argue that, but even that we're left to assume at this point, and it's pretty roundabout and indirect. When he used it against Dormammu it was at least pretty direct how it was affecting things: he trapped him in a time loop, which was pretty dramatically shown by Strange's repeated deaths only to return with the same opening line again and again. Here there's nothing of that sort, so it feels a lot more empty and unsatisfying.

It definitely seems like an attempt at least should have been made to do something like rewind time after Star Lord screwed up their attempts to get the gauntlet off him and try again. Probably wouldn't have worked for one reason or another of course, but they could at least have shown him trying to use it in that sort of manner - at least after Thanos destroyed the fake amulet. Then it wouldn't come across like they never attempted to use what should be a major trump card in their arsenal during their most desperate, must-win fight.

Re: Cap and his beard - Have to be honest, when he came on-screen, I actually had a moment where I wondered if we had just seen Wolverine walk into the movie. Don't really have a strong opinion on his appearance otherwise, but yeah, that happened.

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler

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Eh, I guess you can argue that, but even that we're left to assume at this point, and it's pretty roundabout and indirect. When he used it against Dormammu it was at least pretty direct how it was affecting things: he trapped him in a time loop, which was pretty dramatically shown by Strange's repeated deaths only to return with the same opening line again and again. Here there's nothing of that sort, so it feels a lot more empty and unsatisfying.

It definitely seems like an attempt at least should have been made to do something like rewind time after Star Lord screwed up their attempts to get the gauntlet off him and try again. Probably wouldn't have worked for one reason or another of course, but they could at least have shown him trying to use it in that sort of manner - at least after Thanos destroyed the fake amulet. Then it wouldn't come across like they never attempted to use what should be a major trump card in their arsenal during their most desperate, must-win fight.

Re: Cap and his beard - Have to be honest, when he came on-screen, I actually had a moment where I wondered if we had just seen Wolverine walk into the movie. Don't really have a strong opinion on his appearance otherwise, but yeah, that happened.

Spoiler

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Strange saw that this is not the desperate must-win fight, it's a stepping stone to the actual victory down the line.

Everything that happened in this movie was in his one in fourteen million victory, including his own disintegration.

I suspect that it means that Thanos' ideology must be defeated rather than simply punching him the best. If you take the infinity stones away from him he will just keep trying, he'll start again and keep trying over and over and eventually he will win.

Only by letting him succeed and experience for himself the hollowness of victory, as he does in the Infinity Gauntlet storyline where no matter the power he amasses and the opponents he defeats he never gets what he wants, can he actually be stopped for good.

[Psyren]

Spoiler

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It definitely seems like an attempt at least should have been made to do something like rewind time after Star Lord screwed up their attempts to get the gauntlet off him and try again. Probably wouldn't have worked for one reason or another of course, but they could at least have shown him trying to use it in that sort of manner - at least after Thanos destroyed the fake amulet. Then it wouldn't come across like they never attempted to use what should be a major trump card in their arsenal during their most desperate, must-win fight.

That's pretty much exactly what happened though - just without wasting valuable screentime on showing us something futile.

Spoiler

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Those 14 million possible futures that all ended in failure, includes the ones where they successfully got the gauntlet off him, the ones where he warned everybody that Starlord would blow his gasket, the ones where he warned Starlord that Nebula would join the fray with some bad news about his lover, the ones where Starlord didn't blow his gasket, and so on and so forth. All those ended in failure. Strange's pre-vaporating line of "this was the only way" was quite literal - this was the only way things could have gone down that would result in the good guys winning the long game.

And unlike "Dormammu, I have come to bargain" - the failures weren't the point, so showing us them would have achieved nothing but pad out the movie unnecessarily and spoil the plot turns that came with them.

(Also, what GloatingSwine said.)

[Red Fel]

I don't think I need to do a full review, personally - it was good, I enjoyed it. Not necessarily the same way I enjoyed Black Panther, but they were different movies - that was a drama with superhero elements, Infinity War is a superhero film with dramatic elements.

Instead, just a few observations.

Spoiler: Some Observations

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Regarding Strange's prediction, I agree that this was all part of his endgame. He expected to lose this fight, but win in the long run. If memory serves, Thanos was defeated in the comics by being talked down and ultimately undoing what he did. You literally can't defeat someone who can control all of reality, so he had to be reasoned with. And Strange's choice made sense - Thanos wasn't going to stop if he didn't get the Stone. He was going to try again, and again, and again. Him ultimately getting what he wanted was the only thing that would stop him from doing more. And, at the same time, it would enable him to undo what he did to get it.

I had an issue with the CG in this movie. I didn't expect to. But I really did. And not just Thanos' scrotum-chin, either. A lot of the villains bothered me. Bruce's head floating above that CG suit bothered me. A lot of it bothered me more than it needed to.

I liked how they changed Thanos from the comics, frankly. In the comics, he's a full-on nihilistic psycho who wants to kill everyone as a gift to the literal personification of Death. (Dude, she's just not that into you.) In this one, sure he's disturbed, but he actually means well. He honestly believes in what he's doing. And in his own perverse way, he really is capable of love. It's kind of tragic.

I feel like the jumping from one storyline to another was not always handled well. There were plenty of opportunities do have an awesome scene or reveal - and we skipped it to transition to the action elsewhere. For example, I feel like the scene where Thor just shows up and starts dominating was pretty cool - but getting the reveal when the Axe was forged would have also been cool, and I feel like that was a missed opportunity.

I feel like Banner's Hulkular dysfunction could have been handled better. I think it was supposed to reflect how the Hulk, a being of primal emotion, was terrified for the first time in its existence of the fact that it was beaten. But that's conjecture; they did a poor job of explaining it properly, other than showing Hulk simply screaming "No!" every time it was invoked. And I really didn't feel like that was adequate.

I feel like the deaths, in most cases (exception: Gamora) lacked weight. And I know Marvel was going for the whammy here - the impossible act of killing off a main character. After all, the heroes are supposed to win, with the exception of one or two minor casualties. It was a smart thing for Marvel to actually allow major characters to die. (Although did two of the three black characters have to be pretty much the first ones to die? I feel like that was a bad trope to follow.) But unfortunately, so many died at once, and so quickly, that it had less emotional impact, less sting. More, "Who's next? Oh, there's another one." Parker's death in particular actually annoyed me - I understood that they were trying to hammer home the emotional impact on Tony, who felt responsible (and honestly was), but the fact that everyone except Peter vanished in seconds, while the kid had plenty of time to pull a Doctor Who "I don't want to go" speech before disintegrating, bothered me. It took me out of the moment for something that was clearly designed to hit harder, and failed as a result.

Side note, Strange's portals can cut off limbs. We saw that with Black Dwarf's arm in the early battle. So why didn't he just do that to Thanos' gauntlet hand?

Also, Squirrel Girl would totally have won.

Also also, I squee'd like an excitable adolescent at the post-credits teaser.

[Bartmanhomer]

I don't think I need to do a full review, personally - it was good, I enjoyed it. Not necessarily the same way I enjoyed Black Panther, but they were different movies - that was a drama with superhero elements, Infinity War is a superhero film with dramatic elements.

Instead, just a few observations.

Spoiler: Some Observations

Show

Regarding Strange's prediction, I agree that this was all part of his endgame. He expected to lose this fight, but win in the long run. If memory serves, Thanos was defeated in the comics by being talked down and ultimately undoing what he did. You literally can't defeat someone who can control all of reality, so he had to be reasoned with. And Strange's choice made sense - Thanos wasn't going to stop if he didn't get the Stone. He was going to try again, and again, and again. Him ultimately getting what he wanted was the only thing that would stop him from doing more. And, at the same time, it would enable him to undo what he did to get it.

I had an issue with the CG in this movie. I didn't expect to. But I really did. And not just Thanos' scrotum-chin, either. A lot of the villains bothered me. Bruce's head floating above that CG suit bothered me. A lot of it bothered me more than it needed to.

I liked how they changed Thanos from the comics, frankly. In the comics, he's a full-on nihilistic psycho who wants to kill everyone as a gift to the literal personification of Death. (Dude, she's just not that into you.) In this one, sure he's disturbed, but he actually means well. He honestly believes in what he's doing. And in his own perverse way, he really is capable of love. It's kind of tragic.

I feel like the jumping from one storyline to another was not always handled well. There were plenty of opportunities do have an awesome scene or reveal - and we skipped it to transition to the action elsewhere. For example, I feel like the scene where Thor just shows up and starts dominating was pretty cool - but getting the reveal when the Axe was forged would have also been cool, and I feel like that was a missed opportunity.

I feel like Banner's Hulkular dysfunction could have been handled better. I think it was supposed to reflect how the Hulk, a being of primal emotion, was terrified for the first time in its existence of the fact that it was beaten. But that's conjecture; they did a poor job of explaining it properly, other than showing Hulk simply screaming "No!" every time it was invoked. And I really didn't feel like that was adequate.

I feel like the deaths, in most cases (exception: Gamora) lacked weight. And I know Marvel was going for the whammy here - the impossible act of killing off a main character. After all, the heroes are supposed to win, with the exception of one or two minor casualties. It was a smart thing for Marvel to actually allow major characters to die. (Although did two of the three black characters have to be pretty much the first ones to die? I feel like that was a bad trope to follow.) But unfortunately, so many died at once, and so quickly, that it had less emotional impact, less sting. More, "Who's next? Oh, there's another one." Parker's death in particular actually annoyed me - I understood that they were trying to hammer home the emotional impact on Tony, who felt responsible (and honestly was), but the fact that everyone except Peter vanished in seconds, while the kid had plenty of time to pull a Doctor Who "I don't want to go" speech before disintegrating, bothered me. It took me out of the moment for something that was clearly designed to hit harder, and failed as a result.

Side note, Strange's portals can cut off limbs. We saw that with Black Dwarf's arm in the early battle. So why didn't he just do that to Thanos' gauntlet hand?

Also, Squirrel Girl would totally have won.

Also also, I squee'd like an excitable adolescent at the post-credits teaser.

Yes but my friend told me according to the comics the Beyonder or the Watcher stop Thanos and banished him to another dimension. Than the entity created new universes which include the new planet Earth called Battle storm that Dr. Doom ruled. So there's a huge chance that either the Beyonder or the Watcher will appear in the next Avengers movie: Secret Wars.

[Rakaydos]

Any "plothole" starting with "why didnt Dr Strange..." is answered with "Because he knew it wouldnt have worked."

Spoiler: Strange vs Thanos

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Particularly, in the fight aganst Thanos, Dr Strange is STALLING for the other plot arcs to resolve. If he used the time stone, Thanos would be on top of him instantly, with the full power of the Reality, Power and Space gems. He clearly knew that Stark had to survive his own encounter for the good ending to happen, but Thor also needed his new ax, and all of Thanos's trusted lieutenants needed to be defeated in Wakanda.

From this perspective, the entire encounter against Thanos was staged by Dr Strange to that end. Mantis disabling Thanos happened, but only as long as it could without Thanos losing his grasp on the gauntlet (and presumably upping his game to get it back, eliminate stark and get the time gem early, or else Stark or Starlord does something dramatic with the gauntlet himself and everything goes wrong in an entirely different way, a la Ultron), and major parts of the encounter were about getting Thanos monologing and slowing down Thanos's ability to use the gauntlet.

Despite everything Dr Strange could do, including an offer of the time stone framed in a way that had Thanos pausing to consider trickery, it almost wasnt enough-Thor arrives with the superax about the same time Thanos becomes unstoppable, well after Thanos left Dr Strange's ability to manipulate. As Strange says in the end... there really was no other way.

[Cheesegear]

1. Disney wants to make Marvel movies (and sell toys) until we're all dead.
2. The McGuffin that they're fighting over, literally has the power to undo reality.

I find it really hard to care about what happened in Part 1, since I know pretty much everything will be undone in Part 2.

[Tvtyrant]

Spoiler

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I loved the movie, it wrapped together a lot of problematic plots.

One of the things that it got across well was that the forest fire metaphor applies across the whole multiverse. If they had left Ronin or Hella half the universe wouldn't have just died, as Ronin with a stone might have killed Thanos and Hella absolutely would have.

I also really liked how they reveal how personal flaws make the ending possible. Strange and Stark through their superiority and arrogance, Starlord, Drax and Scarlett Witch through their emotions, even Roger's Outcasts by their isolation.

[thorgrim29]

3 more things I've thought about:

Spoiler

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I liked how they handled the groupings. They had team sass with Strange as a moderating influence and team serious with Bruce having fun and lightening the mood. I think a lot of thought went into that.

Also, the power levels of the Avengers are all over the place but they managed not to make it too noticeable. Tony does better at taking on Thanos 1 on 1 than Hulk does (1 reality stone before) and Thor gets blasted by a ton of fusion energy and hangs on long enough get his new magic ax. He is way OP after he gets the ax but that's the point. Not to mention Scarlet Witch who is more effective than most of the rest of the cast combined. Hell even Strange's sidekick is good enough at thinking with portals to be more effective than pre-Iron Spider Spiderman.

Even then, it felt like everybody else was doing something useful during the fights, including the woman with a shock-staff and the guy with a cudgel.

Also, thinking of Tony and Peter's suits here I think we have answered the question of who is better at making supersuits between Tony and Shuri, and it's Tony. That Mark whatever he's using here is hax. Though it seems he hasn't been upgrading Warmachine as much.

[Cristo Meyers]

Saw it this morning. I wasn't really wowed. It was good. Entertaining. Funny at the right bits and dramatic at the others, but it didn't really feel like the grand finale (or rather, first half of it) that it's billed as.

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I liked the way the group was split up, especially Tony ending up with the one person that can and will out-snark him and a group of others that just won't rise to the bait. Banner in the Hulkbuster was a nice switch, more on him below. I think I liked Thor's personal arc the most.

Thanos, of course, stole the show. It was easy to forget that this guy was planning on murdering half of the beings in the universe.

This is probably the minority opinion, but I didn't like either of Gamora's major scenes with Thanos. I found it too obvious that Thanos of course wasn't beaten so easily so the entire time she was purging all that pent-up hate was just spent waiting for the rug to get pulled out from under her. Same with the second. For me it crossed the line from drama into melodrama and left me just waiting for it to end.

The knowledge that fully half, if not all, of the dead characters are likely coming back prevented the ending from having the kind of impact they probably intended. I'm already familiar with the comic book world's revolving door to the afterlife, but knowing that there's a Black Panther 2 in the works certainly doesn't help.

Spoiler: Some Observations

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I feel like Banner's Hulkular dysfunction could have been handled better. I think it was supposed to reflect how the Hulk, a being of primal emotion, was terrified for the first time in its existence of the fact that it was beaten. But that's conjecture; they did a poor job of explaining it properly, other than showing Hulk simply screaming "No!" every time it was invoked. And I really didn't feel like that was adequate.

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I agree that should've been handled a bit more explicitly. I picked up on it right away, but it still came across as Hulk going all Achillies in his tent and sulking because he got beat up. Making it more explicit that the big guy was actually afraid would've upped the threat level of Thanos more effectively than most things. This is someone that the Hulk is afraid of, and we're supposed to stand against him? Instead it felt like a temper tantrum. In character, I guess, the Hulk is pretty child-like, but not nearly as effective.

[Douglas]

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Completely aside from all the moral and ethical problems, I see one really big practical flaw in Thanos' ideology. Suppose, for a moment, that Thanos is completely correct - there aren't enough resources to go around for everyone, and the population of everywhere needs to be cut back to a level the available resources can support. Even if that is true, Thanos' solution is only temporary. The halved populations will grow back up, and need to be cut down, again, and again, and again, forever. So, how long can Thanos keep doing it, and how will he decide when it's time?

[Bartmanhomer]

I always thought that Hulk is usually the most bravest hero in the movie or at least in the comics.

[Cristo Meyers]

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Completely aside from all the moral and ethical problems, I see one really big practical flaw in Thanos' ideology. Suppose, for a moment, that Thanos is completely correct - there aren't enough resources to go around for everyone, and the population of everywhere needs to be cut back to a level the available resources can support. Even if that is true, Thanos' solution is only temporary. The halved populations will grow back up, and need to be cut down, again, and again, and again, forever. So, how long can Thanos keep doing it, and how will he decide when it's time?

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Not to mention that, realistically, 1/2 is really more like 2/3 or even more. There are small populations that no doubt removing half basically dooms the rest to extinction. Then there's all those that will die in the ensuing chaos of half of a society just essentially vanishing.

I actually half expected Thanos to die at the end from this own Finger Snap of Doom, but then I realized that someone like that would never subject themselves to the same standard. He sees himself as special, the Only One with the will to Do What Needs To Be Done. It's ego, pure and simple.

[Cheesegear]

I see one really big practical flaw in Thanos' ideology...

Not, you know...If you have a Gauntlet that can change reality, the idea of simply adding more resources, doesn't come up?

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm not the only person who have noticed that Thanos is too overpowered in the movie. He's too overpowered in the comics as well.

[Zevox]

Any "plothole" starting with "why didnt Dr Strange..." is answered with "Because he knew it wouldnt have worked."

Spoiler: Strange vs Thanos

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Particularly, in the fight aganst Thanos, Dr Strange is STALLING for the other plot arcs to resolve. If he used the time stone, Thanos would be on top of him instantly, with the full power of the Reality, Power and Space gems. He clearly knew that Stark had to survive his own encounter for the good ending to happen, but Thor also needed his new ax, and all of Thanos's trusted lieutenants needed to be defeated in Wakanda.

From this perspective, the entire encounter against Thanos was staged by Dr Strange to that end. Mantis disabling Thanos happened, but only as long as it could without Thanos losing his grasp on the gauntlet (and presumably upping his game to get it back, eliminate stark and get the time gem early, or else Stark or Starlord does something dramatic with the gauntlet himself and everything goes wrong in an entirely different way, a la Ultron), and major parts of the encounter were about getting Thanos monologing and slowing down Thanos's ability to use the gauntlet.

Despite everything Dr Strange could do, including an offer of the time stone framed in a way that had Thanos pausing to consider trickery, it almost wasnt enough-Thor arrives with the superax about the same time Thanos becomes unstoppable, well after Thanos left Dr Strange's ability to manipulate. As Strange says in the end... there really was no other way.

To be clear, I at no point have ever claimed that this minor gripe of mine is a plothole.

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I'm saying only that I, personally, find it a little unsatisfying that we never got that moment of the heroes using one of the stones against Thanos directly. That despite them having two of the six, and one of them being in the hands of someone who very much knew how to use it, they never even tried that. I would be just that little bit happier with the film if we had that moment, even though it would assuredly not change the plot at all.

This is not some major criticism, it is me identifying something that I think would have been fun to see that we didn't get, which leaves me slightly disappointed because we didn't get it. That is all.

[Cristo Meyers]

Not, you know...If you have a Gauntlet that can change reality, the idea of simply adding more resources, doesn't come up?

I don't think that would ever occur to Thanos.

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This is someone who settled on a course of action as Right and started imposing it on the universe before he ever had a single Stone. To just then turn around and go "I'll just add more resources" would be admitting that he was wrong first. I don't think his ego would allow that.

In-character, I'd see him dismissing such a thing with "but then they wouldn't learn." He thinks that once this is over the universe will be grateful. He says so himself. If you just add more stuff to go around, everyone will just make the same mistakes. With the Finger Snap of Doom the people of the universe will see and act accordingly in the future. Delusional? Sure, but this is someone that thinks slaughtering half the universe is a good idea.