Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XV: You Must Be THIS Tall To Witness The Grimdark

[Mystic Muse]

Random question, not trying to interrupt the Genestealer discussion.

Is Mortarion ambidextrous, or does he favor one hand over the other for wielding Silence?

The box makes it unclear.

[Grim Portent]

Space Marines are all ambidextrous*, I'd assume the primarchs are also all ambidextrous.


*Though they usually favour the right hand for guns, presumably because of the minis usually doing so.

[Mystic Muse]

Space Marines are all ambidextrous*, I'd assume the primarchs are also all ambidextrous.


*Though they usually favour the right hand for guns, presumably because of the minis usually doing so.

Ah, thank you.

[Wraith]

*Though they usually favour the right hand for guns, presumably because of the minis usually doing so.

Based on real life - at least, with regards to the British army, I won't speak for every model of weapon ever made. Their guns expel spent rounds from the right-side of the weapon, so soldiers have to fire right-handed because if they don't then searing hot shell casing are ejected into the inside of their right arm.

Bolters apparently do the same thing, though it's probably not an issue for someone with Power Armour, and even less so for Mortarion who was famous for wielding a laser pistol and thus did not expel casings.

[DemonicAngel]

A lot of modern day weapons are designed to be modeler and can be changed to suit left handed people by a weaponsmith (a good example is the IWI X-95). i'm guessing the same goes for future weaponry

[Cheesegear]

Based on real life - at least, with regards to the British army, I won't speak for every model of weapon ever made. Their guns expel spent rounds from the right-side of the weapon, so soldiers have to fire right-handed because if they don't then searing hot shell casing are ejected into the inside of their right arm.

Which is super-frustrating, because Bolts are supposed to be caseless ammo...
Then I think that they reverted back to shells either in 4th or 5th Ed.

[Lord Torath]

It's just too cool to show casing flying at high rate out of the weapon.

I think the Dawn of War intro was guilty of this. I seem to recall the heavy bolter spewing brass as it fired.

[DaedalusMkV]

Which is super-frustrating, because Bolts are supposed to be caseless ammo...
Then I think that they reverted back to shells either in 4th or 5th Ed.

Officially, in 6th edition was the first time that Bolters had the caseless part of their description removed from the rulebook and various codexes.

Unofficially? They've been spewing shells in the video games for as far back as I can remember, at least as far back as Dawn of War and Fire Warrior, and every Bolter model from 3rd edition onwards has had an ejection port that would be mostly unnecessary on a weapon that fires caseless ammunition (as you'd only need a way to eject something from the chamber in the event of a misfire or jam, IRL weapons with caseless ammo usually have small, out-of-the-way ejection ports with mechanical assists rather than big open bolts like we see on modern Bolter models). So they've definitely been at least designed with weapon casings in mind since the big ejection port got added in the 3rd edition redesign cycle.

Now, considering that Bolters have more in common with RPGs than conventional firearms, whether a cased version of a rocket-propelled high-explosive round makes the slightest bit of sense is a very different question...

[Cikomyr]

No offense, but "casing being ejected from the machine gun" is such an established trope, people would feel weird when it doesn't happen.

It's like the sound of laser weaponry in any sci fi media.

[Platinius]

It are some autoguns that use caseless ammo.

The case is important among other reasons because it absorbs some of the heat created by the combustion of the driving charge. Ejecting the hot shell evacuates some of that heat and slows down the rate at which guns heat up. Remember, material stretches and changes it's elasticity/hardness/other stuff when it heats beyond a certain values. The guns can and will warp they get too hot, they will cease functioning or might even be torn apart by the force. SM have to be able to fight none stop. Going caseless is not an option for them.


Just so you know, if you shoot enough bullets rapidly enough, the barrel(s) can straight up melt.

[Cheesegear]

No offense, but "casing being ejected from the machine gun" is such an established trope, people would feel weird when it doesn't happen.

A Boltgun is basically supposed to sound like a monkey on a typewriter, except with the timing of an AA-12.

Dawn of War made them sound like battle rifles.

SM have to be able to fight none stop. Going caseless is not an option for them.

Codex: Space Marines/7:

...The propellant itself is shaped to control the bolt's direction and speed; however, this method of rocket propulsion would normally warp the barrel due to gas pressure. The Bolter uses an ingenious two-stage method to prevent this.

As well as the rocket propellant, a small conventional charge is also utilised. This charge is strong enough to force the bolt out of the barrel at a significant muzzle velocity, and simultaneously ignite the bolt's propellant. The rocket-propellant is precisely fused to ignite immediately as the bolt leaves the barrel, alleviating any possibility of pressure build-up. The bolt then accelerates toward the target under its own power.

Basically, Bolts are currently cased...Though they have no reason to be.

[Cheesegear]

SM have to be able to fight none stop. Going caseless is not an option for them.

Codex: Space Marines/7:

...The propellant itself is shaped to control the bolt's direction and speed; however, this method of rocket propulsion would normally warp the barrel due to gas pressure. The Bolter uses an ingenious two-stage method to prevent this.

As well as the rocket propellant, a small conventional charge is also utilised. This charge is strong enough to force the bolt out of the barrel at a significant muzzle velocity, and simultaneously ignite the bolt's propellant. The rocket-propellant is precisely fused to ignite immediately as the bolt leaves the barrel, alleviating any possibility of pressure build-up. The bolt then accelerates toward the target under its own power.

Basically, Bolts are currently cased...Though they have no reason to be.

[Kris Strife]

Isn't the traditional charge also so the round exits the barrel fast enough to be lethal at point blank?

[Platinius]

Isn't the traditional charge also so the round exits the barrel fast enough to be lethal at point blank?

Of course it's lethal. The secondary charge is there to extend the range.

Here is a video about a caseless ammo using rifle made by honorary ArchMagos Ian MacCallum as documented at some point in the beginning of M3. (praise be to the Omnissiah!)

[Wardog]

It's just too cool to show casing flying at high rate out of the weapon.

I think the Dawn of War intro was guilty of this. I seem to recall the heavy bolter spewing brass as it fired.

Sgt Harker has spent heavy bolter casings at his feet, too. I think that model is older than DoW.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB...ergeant-Harker

[hamishspence]

Which is super-frustrating, because Bolts are supposed to be caseless ammo...
Then I think that they reverted back to shells either in 4th or 5th Ed.

I thought that was 2nd edition Autoguns, not Bolters, that were specifically called out as caseless?

[Renegade Paladin]

It's just too cool to show casing flying at high rate out of the weapon.

I think the Dawn of War intro was guilty of this. I seem to recall the heavy bolter spewing brass as it fired.

The Dreadnought's assault cannon certainly did, and so did the Sergeant's bolt pistol. The heavy bolter guy bit it before he was ever the focus of a scene firing the damn thing.

[Lord Torath]

I thought that was 2nd edition Autoguns, not Bolters, that were specifically called out as caseless?

The 2E bolters did not have ejection ports that I could see. At least for the marines. Same for the stormbolters on the terminators.

[Occasional Sage]

Total sidetrack from both genestealers and bolters: do orks have genders?

[LeSwordfish]

Total sidetrack from both genestealers and bolters: do orks have genders?

They're mushrooms for which GW uses he/him pronouns.

[Lord Torath]

There are female orc models. They are cheerleaders for Bloodbowl, designed in the previous century. I don't think there have ever been any female orks, though.

[Cheesegear]

Total sidetrack from both genestealers and bolters: do orks have genders?

There have been Blood Bowl models which suggest that there are female Orcs, with a 'C'.

Spoiler: My eyes!

Show

However, not only is Blood Bowl fluff not even remotely 40K, but the universe which it's based off off - Warhammer Fantasy - no longer exists either.

So...As has already been mentioned, Orks, with a 'K', from 40K, are asexual mushrooms that reproduce via spores that they're barely even aware - if at all - that they give off.

There are female orc models. They are cheerleaders for Bloodbowl, designed in the previous century.

You know Blood Bowl has been re-released, right? And is currently supported?
(i.e; See above)

[Wraith]

There are female orc models. They are cheerleaders for Bloodbowl, designed in the previous century. I don't think there have ever been any female orks, though.

Blood Bowl is kinda weird. It used to be a part of the Warhammer Fantasy universe and very quickly went off on it's own insane route, so WHF Orcs and BB Orcs are not necessarily the same....

I'm sure you'll all be glad to know that female BB Orcs are still canon - they were back in the Blood Bowl 2 (fully GW-licensed and approved) video game as of 2018, alive and well. They wear nipple-tassels.

[Lord Torath]

You know Blood Bowl has been re-released, right? And is currently supported?(i.e; See above)

I did know they'd re-released it. I did not know they'd remodeled the cheerleaders. The old ones are also pretty scary. Belay that. ALL of them are pretty scary! Here's Google Image search for Painted Orc Cheerleader. Just, uh, be sure to have someone on hand qualified to perform this medical procedure before viewing the search results...

[Wraith]

To be fair, the topless ones aren't GW models. Even back in 1st edition they tended to be more family friendly than that, and instead a surprisingly large and competitive cottage-industry has sprung up catering for niche Blood Bowl models, particularly in terms of cheerleaders (of all races, not just cute humans - yes, even for trolls and Nurgle teams...), supporting staff and female players.

I've yet to see any male cheerleaders though, unless you discount the Dwarfs who are usually hard to determine until you're VERY close to them. A possible gap in the market? Or maybe the BB community has enough muscular men in furry underwear just from the Norse teams....

[Cikomyr]

So there's going to be a warhammer 40K cartoon. I am curious about it, will reserve judgement until I hear more voice actor and see a bit more animation work.

I suspect not everyone will be as chill about it as I am. I fully anticipate the standard angry boyzzzzz raging "Warhammer shouldn't be cartoon!!"

[hamishspence]

I suspect not everyone will be as chill about it as I am. I fully anticipate the standard angry boyzzzzz raging "Warhammer shouldn't be cartoon!!"

Wasn't the Ultramarines animated movie at least moderately well-received?

[Cikomyr]

Wasn't the Ultramarines animated movie at least moderately well-received?

That's not a "cartoon", it's just standard animation.

I am talking Saturday Morning Cartoon

[hamishspence]

Star Wars Rebels managed to get surprisingly grimdark for a Saturday morning cartoon - maybe if they started at the most grimdark level of Rebels (or perhaps TCW?) they might minimise fan dissatisfaction?

[Cikomyr]

Star Wars Rebels managed to get surprisingly grimdark for a Saturday morning cartoon - maybe if they started at the most grimdark level of Rebels (or perhaps TCW?) they might minimise fan dissatisfaction?

Maybe, but you think some people will wait to give it a genuine chance before judging? ;-)

You should check the history of Discovery threads of this forum.