Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

[jagadaishio]

I'm increasingly thinking that MI needs their own iconic prestige class. I'll ponder that.

[Silverscale]

I'm increasingly thinking that MI needs their own iconic prestige class. I'll ponder that.

If you make a prestige class for MI then I think it should incorperate the different levels from Agent-Detective-Inspector, etc that BRC layed out. There are 8 different levels so the first level would be Agent and the capstone would be Chief Inspector in a 10 level PRC with 2 levels where you don't gain a new title but get something else instead.

[BRC]

If you make a prestige class for MI then I think it should incorperate the different levels from Agent-Detective-Inspector, etc that BRC layed out. There are 8 different levels so the first level would be Agent and the capstone would be Chief Inspector in a 10 level PRC with 2 levels where you don't gain a new title but get something else instead.

No. Not really. Once you get to Detective-Sergent you're off the street and sitting in an office handling paperwork for the most part. Rank does not equal skill. In fact, some of the most skilled investigators are Detectives. The people who get promoted are those with a good head for management, or are not fit for street level investigations for some reason (Injury, Age, ect).
In fact, the most skilled investigators are LEAST likely to get promoted. If you have a brilliant investigator, the last thing you are going to do is put him in an office.
Good Detectives will get recognized in other ways, they'll receive pay raises, it will be easier for them to get approval for things, they'll have more Investigators under their control (and may be allowed to hand-pick some). If you're approaching retirement, you'll likely get promoted off the street, or sent to the Academy to train cadets.
Also, Agent's arn't properly MI members, they don't investigate crimes. However, they have independent command structures.

No, the PRC should focus on solving crimes, moving through the city, putting clues together, and taking down Dirtbags.

Also, Graveyard Shift.

Spoiler

Show

__________________________________________________ ____________________________________
Renald DeLargenda was not having a good day. He was still trying to handle the aftereffects of the robbery, and the short investigator was back, with a new Human, one with dark glasses and a serious face. O dear, Renald hated this.
“I told you, the safe contained nothing but Cash. Well, Cash and that box of documents.”
The tall one spoke, his voice came out like he had a grudge against the words.
“What. Box. Of. Documents. WHY DIDN’T YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT EARLIER”.
Renald really had no time for this, he had dinner with the wife, then an evening with his mistress. And policemen made him nervous, he was of the opinion that crime was something like a disease, and that one should avoid contact with the infected at all costs. He also noticed that a surprisingly large number of known criminals had been investigated by one police force or another, and he refused to believe that was a coincidence.
“I assumed you knew, the box belonged to you after all.”
“What?”
“A week ago, a pair of Investigators showed up with a magically sealed lockbox and told us to put it in our best vault. When I asked about payment, they mumbled something about the council covering it, and with all this mess, I simply don’t have time to extract money from the council.”
“MI documents were taken, and you didn’t think this important!”
“I am a banker, I think in terms of money, a large amount of money was taken, and the people it belonged to are very cross with me, so please, I ask you to LEAVE. If one of your boxes went missing, it sounds like an internal matter, I recommend you take it up with your own people and leave me to do my job”.

Jenine Harlew was not having a good day. For starters, she was a ghost, but this was nothing new, and while it once bothered her greatly, was not merely a fact of life. It didn’t exactly make her life easier. What would have made her life easier would be to have physical hands, hands that could clench around the throat of that blubbering pet rookie of Midersen’s.
“You, You UNSPEAKABLE LITTLE WRETCH”.
He was cowering as much as possible without actually folding into oneself.
“DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT SORT OF TROUBLE YOU HAVE CAUSED!”
“A-A-all I did was put the blueprint back…”
“WITHOUT consulting a member of the archive staff. The automatic sorters are idiot constructs, they may take the presence of the blueprints in a section explicitly devoted to the blueprints of homes as a sign that banks are now considered residences, and start re-arranging things accordingly, so me and my staff have to spend hours going through”
He didn’t deserve this. Really, he didn’t. It was an honest mistake. He had only been to the archives a few time, also, the archive signs in the blueprints section were written in Dwarven Ishkan for some reason, he barely understood half the characters. She was really going on now, from the way she described it, you’d think that the city only survived because her Archives were in order.
Through the transparent body of the spook, Renking saw Detective Tordley walk through the doorway and his heart rose. Tordley was an experience MI, he would know what to do in this situation.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________
Gordon Tordley entered the archives, Oliver had run off to find Jenine in her office while he looked for that rookie. He did not expected to find both Jenine and the rookie. He especially did not expect to find her chewing out the rookie like a Dragon eating a cow.
Fortunately, Gordon had seen this before, he was an experienced municipal investigator, he knew what to do in this situation.
Gordon, very quietly, slipped out of the room, she should be over it in a minute.
__________________________________________________ ______
… “And the next thing you know, we’ll find people living in banks because they think that’s the way things are supposed to be! They’ll assume it’s the latest fashion, I’ve seen it before. These Archives may look like musty old stacks to you, but this city runs on Information. And we keep that here! All of it! And when we need to use something, we can find it BECAUSE THINGS ARE ORGANIZED! If everybody took your caviler attitude towards this, the city would be in chaos! “
“Indeed it would Jenine. I think he’s learned his lesson”
She turned around to see Detective Tordely.
“I recall having a rather similar discussion with YOU not too long ago”
“And have I strayed since?”
“No, you have rookies do it for you, why are you hear”.
“To ask you a question, the Gilded Bank manager claims he had a box of documents from MI in his priority vault, why would they be there.”
“Yes, our secure vault is being replaced. Some gate raiders ported into the old one. While it’s being replaced, we sent our documents to a variety of banks around town.”
“I Thought the Archives, especially the secure vaults, were proofed against random gates?”
Jeanie's words could have frozen the steamworks.
“They. Should. Have. Been.”
“Well, anyway, what documents were sent to the Gilded Bank?”
Jenine thought for a moment. When some people return as undead they have forgotten about their life, or how to do something they once found routine. Jeanine had forgotten how to forget. Given less than a minute, she could remember almost anything, even a minor order she’d skimmed and then signed off on several years ago. It was spooky enough to make you forget you were talking to the shade of a librarian who had died in a fire over a century ago.
“Ah yes, Box 57I, reports concerning MI assets within the Cutthroat Alliance. Top Classification, containing suppressed and cleared evidence from Division 4 Investigations, E-H”.

Renkin's Father had been a streetbuilder, and had once described a word they had called Imflat. Imflat was what Streetbuilder's felt when they knocked out the wrong pillar, and unstable structures began crumbling towards them. The name stood for Imminent Flattening.
Renkin did not know if Detective Tordley knew what Imflat was, but from the look on his face, he was experiencing it right now.

Edit: Referring to the list, here are the ranks of the characters.
Jenine is technically an Agent, however, she's part of the Archives department, where she holds the rank of Senior Archivist (the second highest rank before Head Archivist, so in a way she outranks all the other characters).
Renkin is a Cadet-Investigator. They are usually attached to Investigators, but Midersen pisses somebody off. He feels very privileged to work under a detective.
Gordon is a Detective. He's technically leading the investigation here.
Oliver is also a Detective. He's classified as an "Occult Investigator", meaning he's a trained forensic spell caster. The title is an archaic term, originally "Occey's" were in charge of investigating magic related crimes, but since magic is related to so many crimes, they got swept up into regular duties.

[Owrtho]

A idea for an idiom and its origin:

Ravenshome Patrol: n. An easy job.
origin - comes from the regular patrols that MI makes of Ravenshome. The idea being that a patrol of Ravenshome is easy as there is no crime there (or if there is it's already taken care of).
It is in fact a misnomer. In actuality a Ravenshome patrol is done with the intent of checking on who has recently moved in, and attempting to get information from those who live there. The reason being that it is considered the one safe place from the Alliance, and as such people often move there in order to escape from them, often for knowing things they shouldn't. As such it can be quite informative for difficult cases. It is also considered among the more difficult jobs, as was learned early on when a number of rookies were lost from inadvertently breaking too many rules in an attempt to coerce an unwilling person into talking. It has however caused strict guidelines on how to act when trying to make the patrol, so as to avoid any risks of breaking rules. It is also highly recommended that any MI members making a patrol of Ravenshome take at least one person experienced in doing so.

Owrtho

[BRC]

A idea for an idiom and its origin:

Ravenshome Patrol: n. An easy job.
origin - comes from the regular patrols that MI makes of Ravenshome. The idea being that a patrol of Ravenshome is easy as there is no crime there (or if there is it's already taken care of).
It is in fact a misnomer. In actuality a Ravenshome patrol is done with the intent of checking on who has recently moved in, and attempting to get information from those who live there. The reason being that it is considered the one safe place from the Alliance, and as such people often move there in order to escape from them, often for knowing things they shouldn't. As such it can be quite informative for difficult cases. It is also considered among the more difficult jobs, as was learned early on when a number of rookies were lost from inadvertently breaking too many rules in an attempt to coerce an unwilling person into talking. It has however caused strict guidelines on how to act when trying to make the patrol, so as to avoid any risks of breaking rules. It is also highly recommended that any MI members making a patrol of Ravenshome take at least one person experienced in doing so.

Owrtho

May I suggest a second definition, usually used by those that have been on many such patrols.
A Ravenshome Patrol refers to any situation where an MI, despite working entierly within the bounds of their duties, needs too be incredibly careful for one reason or another (MI's get alot done because of their ability to walk around like they own the place, therefore many have trouble when the situation calls for more careful handling).
Example Use: "I was just trying to get them to answer some basic questions, but I felt like I was on a Ravenshome Patrol"- Detective Gorish Netok, a goblin, on investigating the murder of a Hobgoblin in Gobin.

Another such idiom amongst MI's:
Alliance Task Force(ATF): n. Something assumed to exist that doesn't. Example: "I tried to look into it, but the Sun Guard Complaints department is organized just like the ATF".
Related term: Passing it to the ATF. A Case that, for one reason or another, cannot be carried to a successful conclusion. Example: "We went over everything three times and asked for more permissions, but in the end we had to pass it to the ATF".
Origin: There is a misconception amongst the general public that a task force exists within MI that is specifically trying to hunt down the leaders of the Cutthroat Alliance. In fact, MI and the Alliance have been sparring since the two organizations were founded (The two organizations arose around the same time, but since the exact founding date of the Alliance is unknown, it's not clear which predated which. Some say the growing political and cultural divide between districts necessitated the creation of MI, and that the Alliance was formed in response. Others say that a rise in interdistrict crime caused by the Alliance forced the creation of MI, and that it wasn't until after MI was founded and started investigating that the existence of the Alliance became known). The point is, considering the decentralized nature of the Alliance and the number of crimes they are involved in, a specific investigation against The Alliance would be futile.

[Owrtho]

May I suggest a second definition, usually used by those that have been on many such patrols.
A Ravenshome Patrol refers to any situation where an MI, despite working entirely within the bounds of their duties, needs too be incredibly careful for one reason or another (MI's get a lot done because of their ability to walk around like they own the place, therefore many have trouble when the situation calls for more careful handling).
Example Use: "I was just trying to get them to answer some basic questions, but I felt like I was on a Ravenshome Patrol"- Detective Gorish Netok, a goblin, on investigating the murder of a Hobgoblin in Gobin.

I expect this would also actually be the original meaning of the phrase. However, as the phrase became adopted by the normal populace, the misunderstanding of the meaning caused the other definition to grow in popularity, mostly displacing it outside of the MI and some other law enforcement groups. It is however still common enough that most people have heard both versions and figure out the meaning from context.

Also, a thought on a related idiom:
Lost to a patrol: v. dieing or failing badly due to failing to follow rules, procedure, or protocol.
Example: "When I realized I'd forgot to address the nobles by their titles, I thought I was lost to a patrol for sure." - Detective Johnson, a human, talking about trying to get information from some angry hobgoblin nobles about a case in Gobin.
Origin: Originally was Lost to a Ravenshome patrol, but was later shortened. Comes from the many people who vanished while making a Ravenshome patrol due to failing to follow the Rules of the Raven.

Owrtho

[BRC]

I have a feeling alot of citywide sayings originate inside organizations like MI, or the Streetbuilders. Since these organizations both recruit from and travel all over the city, people citywide are far more likely to be exposed to their slang.

Here's another one, the opposite of "Lost on a Patrol".
Ravenspooked: adj Mindful of regulations to the point of being ineffective.
Example: "I had him thinking we could drag him off to the Vault on a moment's notice and ready to tell me everything when that Ravenspooked rookie had to come up and ask him for permission to search his cart. That's when he realized we could barely fine him for illegal parking." Detective Arthur Mendelson, on the stupidity of Rookies.
Example 2: "You're station pass expired a day ago, stop being Ravenspooked and use it anyway, they won't check".
Explanation/musing

Spoiler

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MI's have to follow alot of rules and regulations. However, any detective worth their salt will tell you that you can only get things done by ignoring a few small ones now and then and acting like it would take a direct order from the City Council to stop you from doing things. MI's have alot of tricks for having people give them permission without realizing they need to. A common one is to phrase a question as a demand or statement. Saying "Show me what's in the bag", or "I'm going to search this house" or "I want you to come with me and answer some questions". Technically, if the person refuses to do so, the MI can't do anything about that without written approval from their superiors. But by giving commands like this, they are technically asking for permission, and when the person agrees to something they think they have no choice in, they are technically giving the MI permission. It's a trick, but an old one.
In the Academy, Cadets have the regulations drilled into them like the words of the Saints. On the street they learn those rules need to be bent. It's said that a Cadet learns that lying is wrong. A Cadet-Investigator learns how to spot a liar. An Investigator learns when it's okay to lie, and a Detective is the best damn liar around.

[Owrtho]

I agree. Most such terms and phrases likely do originate like that. Also, thinking about it, I expect that Ravenshome is one of the most well known residential districts in the city.

Also, another reason for Ravenshome Patrols (the actual patrols, not the phrase), is that MI (or anyone for that matter), is actually unable to arrest or take into custody anyone in Ravenshome, making it a place that criminals can go to escape retribution as well as those who want to escape criminals. However, the Rules of the Raven keep them in check while they're there (or if they don't the person ceases to be a problem). MI however tries to keep tabs on what criminals are currently staying in Ravenshome as well as if the vanish or leave (so they can catch them if they leave and note they are no longer a problem if the vanish). These criminals can also be possible sources of information.

Owrtho

[BRC]

Ravenshome is well known because it's unique. But as things go it's not very important in terms of city life. Most people live in other residential districts where there is more chance of being mugged, but no chance of vanishing forever because of your hat. It has no real government, commerce is slight, and few people want to live there.

Very few people actually go to Ravenshome, and it's difficult to find somebody that's been there (There are few employers or shops or anything), but almost everybody seems to know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who got taken by the ravens.

Also, Ravenshome dosn't have an organized government (Since the Ravens take care of most of the day to day business of government), so it holds almost no political power.

[Owrtho]

Well, most of thats correct. About the only thing off is not many people having been there. While there proportion is certainly small compared to the total population of the city, there are quite a few people who used to live in Ravenshome. The reason being that despite the common knowledge about how rules are enforced, and the common consensus that the statues are rather creepy (or sound like they would be), there are always a few people each month that think "It can't really be that bad. I'm sure it's just being exaggerated. A few rules to remember and some putting up with some odd statues is more than a fair price to pay for living free of crime." Of course they almost always leave within a few months (if at all) having come to the conclusion that if anything, the rumors are understated. Even so, they always keeps coming.

Due to this, the population of Ravenshome is somewhat fluid. In general, about 1/4 of it consists of people who moved there to hide from the Alliance or similar things. About 1/8 is criminals avoiding being arrested (it should be noted that while the ratio of criminals hiding from the law, and people hiding from criminals that move to Ravenshome in a given period of time is about even, the criminals usually leave or vanish more quickly, causing the lower proportion). Another 1/4 are the people who come thinking it can't be as bad as the rumors and leave soon after. About 1/8th consists of people who came to Ravenshome for the above reasons, but have since gained a Mark of the Raven large enough that they can't leave. The remaining 1/4th is the stable population who for the most part have lived in Ravenshome most if not all of their lives (though it also includes people who have moved their for above reasons and since settled in permanently of their own will).
It is also rather common for people who move out of Ravenshome to move rather far away.

It is quite true though that the district is of little import in normal city life and holds little to no political power.

Also, not quite related, but I just had a thought of someone tucking their kids in for bed and reminding them to be good or the ravens will take them away.

Owrtho

[Silverscale]

I've just run the numbers and given the assumption of 3billion people living in the canyon which is stated as being 400 miles long, then Ishka's Population density, at least within the canyon itself, is more then twice that of Tokyo Japan, the most heavily populated city in the world.

Are we saying that Ishkan's are even more tightly packed in than the already tightly packed Japanese?

[Admiral Squish]

You're not counting vertical growth. Toko isn't layered.

[Silverscale]

You're not counting vertical growth. Tokyo isn't layered.

YES! yes I am. I did the math and even counting ALL 40 layers, Ishka has 2.5 to 3 times more people per square mile than Tokyo Japan.

My calculation was, using the numbers proposed way back on page 5 or so, 400(miles long of the canyon) times 40(layers of the canyon) times .5(miles, the given width of the canyon). This gives you an area of 8000 square miles inside the canyon. Given a stated population of 3billion that gives you a population density of 375000 people per square mile. This works out to each person having roughly 74.3 square feet of breathing room which may sound like a lot but it's not.

I also did the calculation assuming a more conservative 350(miles long of the canyon) times 30(layers of the canyon) times a far more generous 2.5 (miles width of the canyon). This gives you an area of 12002.5 square miles inside the canyon. Again with the stated population of 3Billion, that works out to 249948 people per square mile, which works out to each person having roughly 111.5 square feet to themselves.

Now if we are to put any trust in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_Metropolitan_Area then that gives us a population density of Tokyo to be 4,049 people per square kilometer. This works out to roughly 247 square meters per person. If we guesstimate 9.5 square feet per square meter then that works out to each person having roughly 2346 square feet of personal space.

Ok right there I just proved that the Math I did at 2am was slightly off because that means Ishka's population is over 21 times more densely packed than Tokyo Japan.

Now you're saying "But Silverscale, Ishka's space is more efficiently used since everything is in layers and you don't have as much air space in between buildings." Ok, lets assume generously assume that an Ishkan Layer is twice as efficient as Tokyo. That's still over 10 times more dense than Tokyo.

[Owrtho]

You forget the large number of caves that weren't mentioned in the size of the canyon. Also the extraplanar spaces that aren't within the canyon. These are, however, still counted toward the total population.

Owrtho

[BRC]

I think we agreed that 3 billion was too high. I think One Billion would be plenty. That's still more people than any other nation, and they're all clustered together into one city.

[Silverscale]

You forget the large number of caves that weren't mentioned in the size of the canyon. Also the extraplanar spaces that aren't within the canyon. These are, however, still counted toward the total population.

Owrtho

No actually 3Billion was the stated population just inside the canyon, the stated population of all of Ishka, including the Lake and all the Extra-dimensional neighborhoods, was 3.75billion

I think we agreed that 3 billion was too high. I think One Billion would be plenty. That's still more people than any other nation, and they're all clustered together into one city.

So would that be 1Billion inside the canyon, or for all of Ishka? Either way that would still be 5 to 7 times more dense than Tokyo...........This is approaching reasonable, but still fairly tight.

[Owrtho]

I expect the 1 billion would be all of Ishka. Also, I expect the caves, extraplanar districts, etc. would be at least about 1/2 the size of the canyon (as in about 1/3 of Ishka's total area is these places).

Owrtho

[BRC]

I expect the 1 billion would be all of Ishka. Also, I expect the caves, extraplanar districts, etc. would be at least about 1/2 the size of the canyon (as in about 1/3 of Ishka's total area is these places).

Owrtho

Also, a good deal of that 1 billion would be small sized races (Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Fey. Kobolds also make up a sizeable part of the Ishkan population).

Also, does that count Ghosts who can live inside walls or in forgotten corners?

Also, half a mile is rather thin. I think we can make the canyon a little wider. The Grand Canyon for example ranged is width from 4 to 18 miles. Half a mile in width is very thin.

[Silverscale]

Just for reference Ishka has roughly the same area of the state of New Jersey (If you add up all the layers) and 1Billion is greater than the combined population of North America and South America. That's more than two Continents worth of people crammed into the fourth smallest state in America.

[Silverscale]

Also, a good deal of that 1 billion would be small sized races (Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Fey. Kobolds also make up a sizeable part of the Ishkan population).

Also, does that count Ghosts who can live inside walls or in forgotten corners?

Good point but still......

Also, half a mile is rather thin. I think we can make the canyon a little wider. The Grand Canyon for example ranged is width from 4 to 18 miles. Half a mile in width is very thin.

Please note that I also did a calculation putting the width of the canyon at 2.5 miles

I also did the calculation assuming a more conservative 350(miles long of the canyon) times 30(layers of the canyon) times a far more generous 2.5 (miles width of the canyon). This gives you an area of 12002.5 square miles inside the canyon. Again with the stated population of 3Billion, that works out to 249948 people per square mile, which works out to each person having roughly 111.5 square feet to themselves.

Lets say for the sake of argument that the canyon is 400 miles long, 5 miles wide, has 40 layers, and the Population just in the canyon itself is .8Billion. That works out to 10,000 people per square mile, that works out to each person having roughly 2788 square feet which is slightly less dense than Tokyo and perfectly reasonable.

Therefore here is a breakdown of Ishka
Total Population: 1 Billion
Length of the Canyon: 400 Miles
avg. Width of the Canyon: 5 Miles
Number of Layers in the Canyon: 40
Population inside the Canyon: .8 Billion

[50cr4t3s]

Throwing my 2 cents in again. Here goes: I don't think 3 billion is too large a population for the following reasons: the calculations don't account for extra-dimensional spaces within Ishka, the tunnels and caves beneath the city open into the Underdark, effectively doubling its size (ok that's probably an exaggeration, but you get my point), and I agree that the dimensions of the city should be larger anyway.

[jagadaishio]

50crat3s, it has already been mentioned that 3 billion was the listed population for only the contents of the canyon itself with another .75 billion in the "extra" spaces. I'm perfectly willing to accept a population of 1 billion people within the canyon itself and a width at the cliff top averaging 2.5 miles, being wider in some places and narrower in others. I would rather the population be closer to 1.5 or 2 billion within the canyon to take into account the undead and small-and-smaller populations.

I think we're grossly underestimating the number of people that would live in the caverns. I expect there would be a population in the caverns roughly equal to half of the canyon's population (half a billion people for the commonly accepted estimate that we have right now). The extraplanar, extradimensional, and otherworldly expansions of the city would hold about a quarter of the canyon's population, meaning another .25 billion people if we're going with the 1 billion estimate. This would make the population hover around 1.75 billion people. This would put the population of the city of Ishka a little over a quarter that of Earth and, with normal renaissance and medieval population levels, this would put the majority, of the world's population in Ishka.

One thing we aren't considering, though, is how big the port and lake districts, which expand out into a bay and great lake that aren't bound by walls on the side. How many people might live there? Also, if we go with BRC's suggestion of making the width closer to that of Grand Cayon - or even larger, considering the larger-than-life nature of this setting, we could expand the population even further without being unreasonable.

So, I venture forth 1.75 billion people as a very conservative estimate of how large Ishka might be. With a larger canyon and the various water districts, though, expect that it would be quite a bit larger. It may even be as high as 3 billion people, just as 50cr4t3s suggested. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[Silverscale]

Also, a good deal of that 1 billion would be small sized races (Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Fey. Kobolds also make up a sizeable part of the Ishkan population).

Also, does that count Ghosts who can live inside walls or in forgotten corners?

Ok I think before we go any further we need to nail down some numbers specifically percentages of the total population of various size creatures. When I say creatures I'm including not only people, but pets, corporeal undead, beasts of burden, all these things take up physical space. To that end, please copy and fill in the following chart by percentage.

Fine:
Diminutive:
Tiny:
Small:
Medium:
Large Long:
Large Tall:
Huge Long:
Huge Tall:
Gargantuan Long:
Gargantuan Tall:
Colossal Long:
Colossal Tall:
Incorporeal Undead:

[Silverscale]

I'm gonna put up some numbers correct me if you think they should be different.

Fine: 6
Diminutive: 6
Tiny: 7
Small: 18
Medium: 48
Large Long: 4
Large Tall: 5
Huge Long: .3
Huge Tall: .4
Gargantuan Long: .1
Gargantuan Tall: .1
Colossal Long: .05
Colossal Tall: .05
Incorporeal Undead: 5

[Owrtho]

I expect that incorporeal would actually be close to 30 to 50 percent of the population as they never actually die and just accumulate over time. However, as they neither take resources or space, they aren't counted toward the total population.

Also, just had a thought for there being some almost district sized incorporeal ghost that has settled in some part of the city making the whole area inside it (causing some distortion of vision and a generally cool feeling throughout the area).

Owrtho

[TheLonelyScribe]

1. I'm new, but don't worry, I've already read the entire thread (yup, all of it, I have a lot of spare time)

2. I know I'm off topic, but there are several things I want to address, and things that have been bubbling at the back of my head, so here goes:

Street Size: People seem to forget in this thread that the size of streets in Ishka will be hugely limited. There may be room for goats, and on the bigger streets a couple of stalls, but not much else. I know that the most awesome things require space, but the majority of the city will only have narrow alleyways between buildings, and everything in the city should be done considering that land and space are highly precious.

Post (or mail, for you Americans): Like I said above, the streets probably won't have enough space for actual vehicles to carry the post around, so here is what I propose. Postboxes are fairly powerful magical items that read addresses written in special ink and teleport them to anywhere in the city. Anything going outside the city gets redirected to a central office, where everything is organised and the letters are teleported to the appropriate places. It costs money to get special addresses written on your letters by mages at your local post office, 1-5 sp for a location within the city, 5 sp to 5 gp for a location on the material plane, and more for extra-planar post. Most apartment buildings will hold at least one postbox, but your average resident won't be able to afford to use it more than once a month.

Water: It's the most important resource for life, so where does it come from? The river at the bottom of the canyon? The elemental plane of water? The Fountain? And how to people get hold of it? Is there running water, or is there a well at the end of each street? Just something to think about.

New district: The Ishkan Republic
Other names: Freefounding, Paradise of Rhetoric, Argumental, Ridiculous Heights
Government: Democracy (yes, you did read that right)
Police force: The Watch

The Ishkan Republic is fairly normal, not dissimilar to the commons with more shops, the necropolis without so much undead, the dark district lit up, or Gulliver's Heights but smaller. What makes it different is the new and strange system of government. What happens is that several (usually about four) parties get together, and do a campaign to get the public to like them. Then, after a little while, everybody votes for their leaders. That's right, everybody. Ridiculous huh?

Story: I know that the brilliant graveyard shift already exists, and if you think that my story is unnecessary or not very good, just let me know, but I think it shows a side of the city that you don't see in our existing story. Here goes:

Spoiler

Show

Gerald was stand in the room of departures with his parents. He had learnt Ishkan, and was now standing before the ornate door, on the other side of which lay his future. He looked back and smiled at his mother and father.

'I love you. I'll send you a letter as soon as I get settled in, ok?'

'Sure son. We love you too.'

Gerald turned back to the door, and looked at the glowing blue orb he held in his hand. Reaching out, he inserted it into the little hollow in the door's frame that was exactly the right shape. The blue energy flowed throughout the door, and soon it was all glowing with mysterious magic.

With one last grin at his parents, Gerald opened the door and stepped into the swirling multi-coloured mist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He fell out in a large hallway, dazed and confused. As he regained his senses, he looked around him and saw that he was surrounded by doors like the one he had just gone through, continually opening and closing and letting strange beings through. He could have sworn that he saw something fleshy and mad looking oozing through one, and was that an angel coming through the other?

Someone tapped him on the shoulder, and he whirled round, slightly nervous from all the strange things happening around him.

'Welcome to Customs and Immigrations,' the woman standing before him said, 'My name is Lemmant, I'm going to be asking a few questions, would you come with me please?'

Gerald nodded, and followed the woman through the building, gazing at the stonework and strange creatures all around him.

'You're human, I presume?'

Gerald laughed, 'Of course, I'm as human as you or the next man.'

Lemmant smiled, and swept back her long hair to reveal pointed ears.

'Oh.'

'You'll be suprised how rarely the 'next man' is human around here, I'm afraid. I'm just going to ask a few more questions, and then hand you over to my colleague.'

After Gerald had announced the amount of wealth he was carrying with him, verified that he was not a terrorist and read a passage in Ishkan out loud, the elf woman said she was bringing him to her colleague who would guide him to a suitable district and help him to find an apartment available for rent.

Lemmant went through a door to a small room. She heartily greeted someone out of sight called 'Xchi'kanahada'. Curious as to who would have such an odd name, Gerald poked his head round the door.

He nearly fainted on the spot.

Lemmant's colleague was an Mind Flayer.

[TheLonelyScribe]

Organization: The Illithid Integration Group

Not all mind flayers are bad, at least according to this organisation. Dedicated to helping the tentacled terrors lead good, helpful and fulfilling lives, the IIG offers all sorts of services, from social events to de-tentacling surgery. They give out badges to all members, and protect them in way quite similar to how the OBS protects the undead.

Of course, there is quite a lot of resistance to the IIG. Almost every creature already lives in the city as a peaceful and law-abiding citizen, people want to keep at least a few creatures they can hate by default. And, of course, Humans First is not too happy with them.

Despite all of this, though, a lot of the IIG mind flayers are genuinely reformed, although there are those that would ruin it all...

[Silverscale]

I expect that incorporeal would actually be close to 30 to 50 percent of the population as they never actually die and just accumulate over time. However, as they neither take resources or space, they aren't counted toward the total population.

Granted they never go away and therefore just keep accumulating but consider that probably only 1in5 Ishkans become Undead when they die and of those the vast majority are corporeal undead.
Technically they don't take up any space, but would you necessarily want a ghost sitting in your lap all the time?

Street Size: People seem to forget in this thread that the size of streets in Ishka will be hugely limited. There may be room for goats, and on the bigger streets a couple of stalls, but not much else. I know that the most awesome things require space, but the majority of the city will only have narrow alleyways between buildings, and everything in the city should be done considering that land and space are highly precious.

Post (or mail, for you Americans): Like I said above, the streets probably won't have enough space for actual vehicles to carry the post around, so here is what I propose. Postboxes are fairly powerful magical items that read addresses written in special ink and teleport them to anywhere in the city. Anything going outside the city gets redirected to a central office, where everything is organised and the letters are teleported to the appropriate places. It costs money to get special addresses written on your letters by mages at your local post office, 1-5 sp for a location within the city, 5 sp to 5 gp for a location on the material plane, and more for extra-planar post. Most apartment buildings will hold at least one postbox, but your average resident won't be able to afford to use it more than once a month.

Water: It's the most important resource for life, so where does it come from? The river at the bottom of the canyon? The elemental plane of water? The Fountain? And how to people get hold of it? Is there running water, or is there a well at the end of each street? Just something to think about.

These are all reasons we are trying to hammer out population desity.

[Silverscale]

(I'm sorry, I don't know how to do spoiler boxes. Someone please tell me how so I can use less space!)

start with (spoiler), end with (/spoiler) use [,] instead of (,) so it looks something like this.

Spoiler

Show

Gerald was stand in the room of departures with his parents. He had learnt Ishkan, and was now standing before the ornate door, on the other side of which lay his future. He looked back and smiled at his mother and father.

'I love you. I'll send you a letter as soon as I get settled in, ok?'

'Sure son. We love you too.'

Gerald turned back to the door, and looked at the glowing blue orb he held in his hand. Reaching out, he inserted it into the little hollow in the door's frame that was exactly the right shape. The blue energy flowed throughout the door, and soon it was all glowing with mysterious magic.

With one last grin at his parents, Gerald opened the door and stepped into the swirling multi-coloured mist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He fell out in a large hallway, dazed and confused. As he regained his senses, he looked around him and saw that he was surrounded by doors like the one he had just gone through, continually opening and closing and letting strange beings through. He could have sworn that he saw something fleshy and mad looking oozing through one, and was that an angel coming through the other?

Someone tapped him on the shoulder, and he whirled round, slightly nervous from all the strange things happening around him.

'Welcome to Customs and Immigrations,' the woman standing before him said, 'My name is Lemmant, I'm going to be asking a few questions, would you come with me please?'

Gerald nodded, and followed the woman through the building, gazing at the stonework and strange creatures all around him.

'You're human, I presume?'

Gerald laughed, 'Of course, I'm as human as you or the next man.'

Lemmant smiled, and swept back her long hair to reveal pointed ears.

'Oh.'

'You'll be suprised how rarely the 'next man' is human around here, I'm afraid. I'm just going to ask a few more questions, and then hand you over to my colleague.'

After Gerald had announced the amount of wealth he was carrying with him, verified that he was not a terrorist and read a passage in Ishkan out loud, the elf woman said she was bringing him to her colleague who would guide him to a suitable district and help him to find an apartment available for rent.

Lemmant went through a door to a small room. She heartily greeted someone out of sight called 'Xchi'kanahada'. Curious as to who would have such an odd name, Gerald poked his head round the door.

He nearly fainted on the spot.

Lemmant's colleague was an Mind Flayer.

[TheLonelyScribe]

start with (spoiler), end with (/spoiler) use [,] instead of (,) so it looks something like this.

Spoiler

Show

Gerald was stand in the room of departures with his parents. He had learnt Ishkan, and was now standing before the ornate door, on the other side of which lay his future. He looked back and smiled at his mother and father.

'I love you. I'll send you a letter as soon as I get settled in, ok?'

'Sure son. We love you too.'

Gerald turned back to the door, and looked at the glowing blue orb he held in his hand. Reaching out, he inserted it into the little hollow in the door's frame that was exactly the right shape. The blue energy flowed throughout the door, and soon it was all glowing with mysterious magic.

With one last grin at his parents, Gerald opened the door and stepped into the swirling multi-coloured mist.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

He fell out in a large hallway, dazed and confused. As he regained his senses, he looked around him and saw that he was surrounded by doors like the one he had just gone through, continually opening and closing and letting strange beings through. He could have sworn that he saw something fleshy and mad looking oozing through one, and was that an angel coming through the other?

Someone tapped him on the shoulder, and he whirled round, slightly nervous from all the strange things happening around him.

'Welcome to Customs and Immigrations,' the woman standing before him said, 'My name is Lemmant, I'm going to be asking a few questions, would you come with me please?'

Gerald nodded, and followed the woman through the building, gazing at the stonework and strange creatures all around him.

'You're human, I presume?'

Gerald laughed, 'Of course, I'm as human as you or the next man.'

Lemmant smiled, and swept back her long hair to reveal pointed ears.

'Oh.'

'You'll be suprised how rarely the 'next man' is human around here, I'm afraid. I'm just going to ask a few more questions, and then hand you over to my colleague.'

After Gerald had announced the amount of wealth he was carrying with him, verified that he was not a terrorist and read a passage in Ishkan out loud, the elf woman said she was bringing him to her colleague who would guide him to a suitable district and help him to find an apartment available for rent.

Lemmant went through a door to a small room. She heartily greeted someone out of sight called 'Xchi'kanahada'. Curious as to who would have such an odd name, Gerald poked his head round the door.

He nearly fainted on the spot.

Lemmant's colleague was an Mind Flayer.

Thanks, I'll edit it straight-away.