What if Real Life worked by RAW?

[noparlpf]

Disturbing thought: Could we actually create computers or the internet via RAW? Can't remember the rules for electricity and metals (if there even are any), although I'm sure that we could create a magical equivalent. I tend to remember someone mentioning making an undead-powered computer on one of these threads.

This?

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Premise: Undead you command can follow basic commands such as "Kill anyone who enters this room but me" or similar.

This means that undead can follow commands like, if anyone enters this room kill them. This can be stated as "If X, then Y", hey presto we have ourselves a logic gate.

Next we take another zombie, actually another couple hundred zombies (or wight, or whatever method you have used to produce arbitrary amounts of controlled undead) and we have them base their "if X, then Y" on each others actions. With enough Zombies we just built ourselves a computer.

The next step is to move this to our own private demiplane where time runs super fast. When you have a problem just planeshift there and punch it in to the "keyboard" (read, talk to your specially trained lich operator), so your computer can start solving.

So now we have created our undead supercomputer, what to call it? I think Deep Rot.

Blah silly rule about post length minimums.
Why is the word "minimums" instead of "minima"? In math classes they always called it "minima".

Edit:

Depends on how you define "computer," I guess.

At the very least I do not think you could make a cost-effective computer.

A computer is that which can compute.
Cost effectiveness isn't too big of a deal. Just set some wights on the local population, and then start taking control of them once they're undead.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Disturbing thought: Could we actually create computers or the internet via RAW? Can't remember the rules for electricity and metals (if there even are any), although I'm sure that we could create a magical equivalent. I tend to remember someone mentioning making an undead-powered computer on one of these threads.

Hm, if you could research your own spells (which is RAW), then you could come up with the right combination of spells to make computers magic powered (like a self-made spell + permanency).

[Rogue Shadows]

Why is the word "minimums" instead of "minima"? In math classes they always called it "minima".

Evolution of language is based on people being too lazy to actually speak their language correctly, for the most part.

Spanish, for example, is just for the most part badly spoke Latin and Arabic. French is just badly spoken Latin and German. German itself is an amalgmation of badly spoken languages, and Latin itself is badly spoken Etruscan. English is just badly spoken.

Well, laziness, and a lack of education.

This is not necessarily a bad thing, but trust me when I say it explains a lot.

A computer is that which can compute.

By that definition, then yes, probably. Then again by that defintion Stonehenge is a computer.

Most people have slightly higher standards of what constitutes a computer. Like...a pocket calculator, at least.

[noparlpf]

Evolution of language is based on people being too lazy to actually speak their language correctly, for the most part.

Spanish, for example, is just for the most part badly spoke Latin and Arabic. French is just badly spoken Latin and German. German itself is an amalgmation of badly spoken languages, and Latin itself is badly spoken Etruscan. English is just badly spoken.

Well, laziness, and a lack of education.

This is not necessarily a bad thing.


By that definition, then yes, probably. Then again by that defintion Stonehenge is a computer.

Most people have slightly higher standards of what constitutes a computer. Like...a pocket calculator, at least.

Really? Because I consider an abacus to be a primitive computer. I'm old-fashioned.
(I answer posts from the bottom up.)

Well excuse me, my good sir. I do declare that I speak the goodest English I have heard in a right long age.
Yeah, languages change over time. Usually deterioration due to laziness or improper education. I personally consider it to be a negative effect. For one thing, I can't understand half of what kids these days write (omg txtng lolz) or say.

[Rogue Shadows]

Yeah, languages change over time. Usually deterioration due to laziness or improper education. I personally consider it to be a negative effect. For one thing, I can't understand half of what kids these days write (omg txtng lolz) or say.

Yeah, but then I don't get to show off my amature knowledge of linguistical evolution.

Two examples. Latin has no actual word for "yes." The closest is sic est, roughly translated as "it is thus," and the negative of that being sic non est, "it is not thus."

Over time as the plebs began speaking Latin poorly and the Patricians started speaking Greek to show off, sic est was shortened to just sic, and then eventually, to just si, with a funny little accent on the i.

Obviously, you can see that sic non est was eventualy shortened to just non and then, in many cases, to no.

Second example - in Catholocism, the priest has the "magic" ability to turn simple bread into the Body of Christ. How does he do this? When does this actually happen? Simple - when he holds up the bread and says "this is the body." Only in older times Church was always in Latin, so instead he would say hoc est corpus. Ta-da! With these "magic" words, the normal bread becomes the Body of Christ.

Say hoc est corpus 5 times fast. Sound familiar? The "magic" words that transform bread into the body of Christ? Hocus pocus!

[noparlpf]

Yeah, but then I don't get to show off my amateur knowledge of linguistic evolution.

Two examples. Latin has no actual word for "yes." The closest is sic est, roughly translated as "it is thus," and the negative of that being sic non est, "it is not thus."

Over time as the plebs began speaking Latin poorly and the Patricians started speaking Greek to show off, sic est was shortened to just sic, and then eventually, to just si, with a funny little accent on the i.

Obviously, you can see that sic non est was eventually shortened to just non and then, in many cases, to no.

Second example - in Catholicism, the priest has the "magic" ability to turn simple bread into the Body of Christ. How does he do this? When does this actually happen? Simple - when he holds up the bread and says "this is the body." Only in older times Church was always in Latin, so instead he would say hoc est corpus. Ta-da! With these "magic" words, the normal bread becomes the Body of Christ.

Say hoc est corpus 5 times fast. Sound familiar? The "magic" words that transform bread into the body of Christ? Hocus pocus!

I knew about the si/no thing (though I couldn't remember the Latin words; I've never studied Latin). I hadn't heard (or didn't remember) where "hocus pocus" came from. That's really funny.

[Ksheep]

This?

Yep, that's the one. Would probably be a really slow computer... unless you place it on another plane with an accelerated time frame. Of course, if that was the case it would be extremely expensive, what with such a high level spell needed to make the plane for it to be on.

[Tyndmyr]

Hm, if you could research your own spells (which is RAW), then you could come up with the right combination of spells to make computers magic powered (like a self-made spell + permanency).

Hey there. Thanks to prestidigitation, contingency, and arcane fusion, we've already designed a Turing complete system based on magic. Topic came up perhaps a year or two back.

Note that since contingency apparently happens instantly when the conditions are filled, speed of processing is arbitrary.

Yeah, I could totally do that.

[noparlpf]

Yep, that's the one. Would probably be a really slow computer... unless you place it on another plane with an accelerated time frame. Of course, if that was the case it would be extremely expensive, what with such a high level spell needed to make the plane for it to be on.

If you're the one building the computer and crafting the plane, it's not too bad. You don't have to pay anyone for spellcasting. And if you're naturally talented enough to reach a level where you can create your own demiplane, you can regain any XP you spent on it without too much difficulty.

Hey there. Thanks to prestidigitation, contingency, and arcane fusion, we've already designed a Turing complete system based on magic. Topic came up perhaps a year or two back.

Note that since contingency apparently happens instantly when the conditions are filled, speed of processing is arbitrary.

Yeah, I could totally do that.

But the undead computer is the only reason I can think of for undead to exist. Otherwise I have to go back to thinking that all undead should be destroyed. And that would be racist (although justified).

[Rogue Shadows]

If you're the one building the computer and crafting the plane, it's not too bad. You don't have to pay anyone for spellcasting.

Although you're going to be spending a lot of money on diamonds...

[Ksheep]

If you're the one building the computer and crafting the plane, it's not too bad. You don't have to pay anyone for spellcasting. And if you're naturally talented enough to reach a level where you can create your own demiplane, you can regain any XP you spent on it without too much difficulty.

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

[Tyndmyr]

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

It's ok...those of us who are wizards will have them. And we'll be able to break WBL horribly. So, it'll work out in the end.

[noparlpf]

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

Anyone with Fabrication can apparently double their wealth infinitely. That's what I heard yesterday or the day before, anyhow.

[Rogue Shadows]

Still, it wouldn't be like the modern PC, where just about everyone and their dog can afford one.

Less Mac, more ENIAK, as well. Good luck getting a game of StarCraft running. Even solitaire would be a chore.

[noparlpf]

Less Mac, more ENIAK, as well. Good luck getting a game of StarCraft running. Even solitaire would be a chore.

We got from binary computers up to the present day in a very short period of time. On your high-speed demiplane, you can probably do it (even using undead as the on/off switches for the binary) in a week.

[Tyndmyr]

Anyone with Fabrication can apparently double their wealth infinitely. That's what I heard yesterday or the day before, anyhow.

Well, anything that can be created via Creation spells, any wood, any iron, etc...can then be fabricated into a finished product.

I feel like this would not be a poor world.

[Rogue Shadows]

We got from binary computers up to the present day in a very short period of time. On your high-speed demiplane, you can probably do it (even using undead as the on/off switches for the binary) in a week.

I...

...I would actually like to see this. Honestly.

Can someone use undead to create...oh, what's something simple...Civilization II. The game that was so easy to mod that even I can do it.

Can someone make an undead computer capable of running a game not unlike Civilization II?

[Ksheep]

I...

...I would actually like to see this. Honestly.

Can someone use undead to create...oh, what's something simple...Civilization II. The game that was so easy to mod that even I can do it.

Can someone make an undead computer capable of running a game not unlike Civilization II?

I think the main problem there would be getting a GUI working. How would that work?

[noparlpf]

I...

...I would actually like to see this. Honestly.

Can someone use undead to create...oh, what's something simple...Civilization II. The game that was so easy to mod that even I can do it.

Can someone make an undead computer capable of running a game not unlike Civilization II?

I don't have any undead. Nor do I have access to a demiplane with advanced speed. I'm a second level barbarian, not a high/epic level caster.

I think the main problem there would be getting a GUI working. How would that work?

Casters have illusion spells that can create images. Just make the output (image) based on some sort of input from the computer. Let's assume we have a high level wizard doing this. Crazy Int. He could figure it out.

[NowhereMan583]

I think the main problem there would be getting a GUI working. How would that work?

Items that can cast contingency-triggered Dancing Lights, set up in a grid, could form a very large monitor. If we're doing that with undead as well, we could just arm a bunch of Fine zombies with Eternal Wands of Dancing Lights (or some similar item, customized so undead can use it... I seem to recall mindless creatures can't use wands) and get the same effect.

Casters have illusion spells that can create images. Just make the output (image) based on some sort of input from the computer. Let's assume we have a high level wizard doing this. Crazy Int. He could figure it out.

This would be a pain to automate, though; you'd have to have a separate trigger (hence a separate Contingency-triggered illusion) for every possible input. That's why you simplify it down to a pixel array, so your undead and/or contingency spells only have to know "red", "green", "blue", and "off".

[OracleofWuffing]

Less Mac, more ENIAK, as well. Good luck getting a game of StarCraft running. Even solitaire would be a chore.

Don't worry, once there's even one person who gets their hands on a Deck of Many Things, Solitaire (and every other card game) will greatly drop in popularity.

Edit: Oh, hey, I got your D&D computer that will run Starcraft 2.

Nolzur’s Marvelous Pigments: These magic emulsions enable their possessor to create actual, permanent objects simply by depicting their form in two dimensions.

And the art degree holder rejoices!

[noparlpf]

Items that can cast contingency-triggered Dancing Lights, set up in a grid, could form a very large monitor. If we're doing that with undead as well, we could just arm a bunch of Fine zombies with Eternal Wands of Dancing Lights and get the same effect.

While we're at it, just make it simpler. Get a horde of zombies. Give each a large, square colored card. Have them hold them over their heads depending on the output. You now have pixels. Scry on a point above the horde, looking down at it. You have your graphics.

[NNescio]

While we're at it, just make it simpler. Get a horde of zombies. Give each a large, square colored card. Have them hold them over their heads depending on the output. You now have pixels. Scry on a point above the horde, looking down at it. You have your graphics.

Mandatory T-shirt for your horde:

[Xanmyral]

Why not use skeletons though? Zombies can only take a standard action, or a move action per round, while a skeleton can take a full action. Less HD you would need to control as well. I imagine the smell wouldn't be as bad as well.

... How many undead would be necessary for this to actually work though? Enough for a high level wizard to do it by themselves, or would we need to get a Dread Necromancer involved? Would Dread Necromancers now be another term for IT guy?

[noparlpf]

Why not use skeletons though? Zombies can only take a standard action, or a move action per round, while a skeleton can take a full action. Less HD you would need to control as well. I imagine the smell wouldn't be as bad as well.

... How many undead would be necessary for this to actually work though? Enough for a high level wizard to do it by themselves, or would we need to get a Dread Necromancer involved? Would Dread Necromancers now be another term for IT guy?

I've never looked at undead creatures' stats, largely on principle. I hate undead things. So sure, skeletons would be better.
I met a necromancer once who was very well-built. He had all kinds of feats and stuff. He wouldn't have made a good IT guy. IT has to have at least a little bit of a customer service aspect...this guy killed everybody and made them into undead servants. (I was playing a Radiant Servant of Pelor at the time. I one-shotted his zombie white dragon with a greater turning. Then a party member turned on me and killed me. I hate being the only non-evil party member.) Anyhow, this guy was just a cleric I think. But you could get some dread necromancers involved. You would need a LOT of undead.

[OracleofWuffing]

Another idea I had would be to use Persistent Image, which allows the caster to create an illusion that follows a script. So, it's just an issue of porting C#/whatever to ArcaneScript(tm), and you have a computer and monitor with a fully functioning operating system (this issue apparently only takes 1 standard action to do). Use a plank of wood for a keyboard and a rock for a mouse, the illusion's already scripted to imitate an OS following your input, and since you're not interacting with the illusion, you don't need to save against it. And even if you did make a save against it, you could willingly forgo the save!

Sadly, there's a pesky issue of Duration that you need to get by. And the Greater Anyspells and Nightsticks rejoice...

[noparlpf]

Another idea I had would be to use Persistent Image, which allows the caster to create an illusion that follows a script. So, it's just an issue of porting C#/whatever to ArcaneScript(tm), and you have a computer and monitor with a fully functioning operating system (this issue apparently only takes 1 standard action to do). Use a plank of wood for a keyboard and a rock for a mouse, the illusion's already scripted to imitate an OS following your input, and since you're not interacting with the illusion, you don't need to save against it. And even if you did make a save against it, you could willingly forgo the save!

Sadly, there's a pesky issue of Duration that you need to get by. And the Greater Anyspells and Nightsticks rejoice...

Make a custom Wondrous Item with Persistent Image as the spell prereq.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Another idea I had would be to use Persistent Image, which allows the caster to create an illusion that follows a script. So, it's just an issue of porting C#/whatever to ArcaneScript(tm), and you have a computer and monitor with a fully functioning operating system (this issue apparently only takes 1 standard action to do). Use a plank of wood for a keyboard and a rock for a mouse, the illusion's already scripted to imitate an OS following your input, and since you're not interacting with the illusion, you don't need to save against it. And even if you did make a save against it, you could willingly forgo the save!

Sadly, there's a pesky issue of Duration that you need to get by. And the Greater Anyspells and Nightsticks rejoice...

Permanency, if the great DM in the sky allows it (it's RAW that the DM can allow other spells nor listed to be permanency'd).

[noparlpf]

Permanency, if the great DM in the sky allows it (it's RAW that the DM can allow other spells nor listed to be permanency'd).

Since you can get several lower-level illusions made permanent, I don't see why this wouldn't be allowed by a DM. They might limit the applications, though.

[Ksheep]

Persistent Image says that it follows a script, but it does not say that it responds to stimuli, so not sure how to get the "computer" to talk with the "monitor" without re-casting the spell every time it runs a new process. This would make it hard to have an interactive ability, although it would work great for computer-generated cut-scenes.

Also, if you COULD figure out the input issue, if the image had to be re-cast with the results of the input, you would not see the results of your input for 6 seconds. Unless the persistent image is ALSO in the demi-plane that you're scrying into. At that point, however, it would be easier just to have the zombies/skeletons with colored cue cards.

Of course, this all depends on how you interpret "script"…