Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

[MountainKing]

Maybe they were Grey Knight termies with force weapons?

[Lycan 01]

So does the Deff Dread have any advantages?

[DaedalusMkV]

So does the Deff Dread have any advantages?

When it does get to combat it's roughly the stompiest thing around? Seriously, even my double DCCW Chaos Dreadnaughts fear an undamaged Deff Dread, and it gets worse from there! Killa Kans have really poor armour as well, which is a massive disadvantage against Tau or IG, who tend to spam a whole lot of S5-6 guns. That said, against the majority of targets Kans seem more useful than Dreads to me, though I don't claim more than the most basic of understandings of the Ork codex.

[Winterwind]

[...]
But, Space Wolves FAQ specifically states that Furious Charge (among other things) and Counter Attack are not compatible. And, also now applies to all units in the game.[...]

Alright, thank you.

Right, quick inquiry for the Heavy Weapon option for an Imperial Guard Veteran Squad : Between the Heavy Bolter and Autocannon, which is more effective if it has to be used in every sort of situation. Seeing as my gaming group plays Tau, Tyranids, Space Marines, Chaos, IG, Orks...

Light Vechicle killing and High Strength are a bonus for the Autocannon, but against a mob, the extra shot of the HB is likely going to be worth it... Or should the extra five points just be dug up for the Missle Launcher, instead?

Personally, I'd go with the Missile Launcher, then. It's better against hordes than either and is capable of dealing with vehicles and monstrous creatures at the same time.
But if the choice is between Heavy Bolter and Autocannon, I'm inclined to favour the Autocannon. It's ability to cut into light vehicles just makes it more general purpose than the bolter.

Emphasis mine. Why did they have no powerfists?
Unless they were playing Space Wolves, they come standard. If you are playing SW, you should be taking several fists in the squad.

Could also have been dual lightning claw Assault Termies.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Alright, thank you.

Personally, I'd go with the Missile Launcher, then. It's better against hordes than either and is capable of dealing with vehicles and monstrous creatures at the same time.
But if the choice is between Heavy Bolter and Autocannon, I'm inclined to favour the Autocannon. It's ability to cut into light vehicles just makes it more general purpose than the bolter.

Could also have been dual lightning claw Assault Termies.

Out of a squad of five? Unless they were old Assault Termies, I don't see why there would be less than three TH/SS ones.

[Arcanoi]

Maybe they were Grey Knight termies with force weapons?

Grey Knights Termies are WS5 S6 A3, and will kill Killa Kans just fine.

[IthilanorStPete]

Out of a squad of five? Unless they were old Assault Termies, I don't see why there would be less than three TH/SS ones.

Or they were Chaos Termies, which have power sword standard.

[evisiron]

Emphasis mine. Why did they have no powerfists?
Unless they were playing Space Wolves, they come standard. If you are playing SW, you should be taking several fists in the squad.

To end the speculation, yeah, it was space wolves.

They were a squad with combi meltas designed to DP and hunt vehicles. No such luck for them.

[Arcanoi]

Hunting Tanks... without Powerfists? They deserve that comeuppance.

[Psychotic]

Hunting Tanks... without Powerfists Chainfists? They deserve that comeuppance.

Fixed.

On the flipside, several melta-bombs work just as well.

[Cheesegear]

Hey Team X-Treme,

Being the Super-40K player that I am, I've actually been invited by the members of GW Staff to participate in a 'Staff Challenge' (even though I'm not staff), because the staff only consist of four people, and they need a couple of the more hardcore hobbyists to join in the event.

Essentially, the challenge is to buy a Battleforce, or whatever 'costs the same' as a Battleforce (as some Battleforces suck, but, that being said, if you don't buy the Battleforce, you miss out on some 'free' models) as well as any single HQ choice for our list. And then 500 points per month until we hit 2500 points, which is the guide-limit to armies on page 87 of the BBB.

Starting around now, we should be finished by the July holiday-tournament season. Might even head down to Sydney (in Australia!) and see how we do there.

So, given that I love you guys so much, and posting progress (and allowing you guys to keep tabs on me) will keep me motivated. I want to know what you guys want to see me do. Since, if you guys are reading the blog/progress, I want you to want to read it.

I might even name squad leaders after some board members who prove to be extremely helpful. Or convert up something you guys want done to 'your' model.

Space Marines and Orks are already right out. As they're the AoBR armies and I definitely expect someone else to take them. As well as if any of you saw my SM 'stash' posted a few pages back, I really don't need any more Marines.

I'm leaning towards Chaos Marines or Tau. As they're the armies I don't have any experience with at all - or barely any. And this is the perfect opportunity to start.

Since the new 'Nids Codex came out, I've been itching to start my all-Warrior army (inc. Raveners and Shrikes).

Inquisition (read; Grey Knights) or would be good. Since no-one plays them.

Imperial Guard might be good, since I wont be starting from scratch as I have over a hundred Infantrymen unpainted. But, I think that might be cheating.

Eldar I'm kind of 'meh' about...But, I'll do it if you want me to. That being said, I don't really want to do an army that I don't like.

Necrons, Chaos Daemons or Dark Eldar. Just to prove I can.

[Arcanoi]

Daemonhunters or Tyranids.

You'll see the most use out of Tyranids, but there MIGHT be a new Inquisition Codex coming out within a EDIT: year or so, so having the models might be nice. Plus, Shiny!

If I were forced to pick one, Tyranids, simply because I want some AARs of your escapades with them.

[Cheesegear]

Daemonhunters or Tyranids.

Those are the two I'm leaning towards. Although, stick Chaos Daemons in there as well.

but there MIGHT be a new Inquisition Codex coming out within a month or so, so having the models might be nice. Plus, Shiny!

Well, we know for a FACT, that Blood Angels come out in April. As Battle Missions is set for March. So, I wont be seeing a new Daemonhunters Codex for quite some time. Not that there's anything wrong with that. As the final product will be 2500 points, Daemonhunters as-is do quite well in that bracket.

Fact 2; Codex: WitchHunters appears to have been taken off of the website. And for the moment, GW Stores (in Australia, at least) can not order any new copies of WitchHunters. This usually means a new Codex is in the works. But, in accordance with the above, probably not for some time.

If I were forced to pick one, Tyranids, simply because I want some AARs of your escapades with them.

AARs?

[Archetype-]

AARs?

After Action Reports. Y'know tell us your exploits of how you pwned some noobs. That kinda thing.

I'll toss in my vote for either Daemonhunters or (mainly) Tzeentchian Chaos Daemons. I think it'd be interesting to see how you do with something so... different from bikes.

No, if you'll excuse me. I need to settle an issue similar to what Eisenhower had prior to the ill-fated Market Garden.

-Archetype

[IthilanorStPete]

I'd kind of like to hear about the Tau, but looks like I'm in the minority. Failing that, Daemonhunters.

[Mattarias, King.]

I'd have to vote for the mighty Grey Knights as well, because hot damn are they cool.

Feel free to take this with a grain of salt though. Or a pile. I'm a very 'vorthos' player, to use a Magic term.

[Lycan 01]

Grey Knights seems like a good choice. As you said, nobody plays them, so nobody else will know how to play against them. You also seem to know your way around the Ordo Hereticus, and you should probably play as an army you're comfortable and skilled with.


Also, when you guys say there's a new Inquisition Codex in the works, what does that entail? New Battle Sisters? New Grey Knights? Or *gasp* a mix of both?!

Either way, I think that'll be my second army.

Although I suppose you could say the Imperial Guard is already my second army. But I might be selling them in a few months to... in what some may consider an ironic twist... a United States Marine.

[Mattarias, King.]

...On a more mundane sidenote, we're almost to page 50. Shouldn't we, uh, prepare for a new thread or something?

[Lycan 01]

"Lets Watch Cheesegear Conquer the Galaxy"

"You Got Your Dakka In My Waaaaagh!!"

"The Saints Shall Whisper Our Glories Forever"

"Rock < Paper < Scissors < Power Weapon"

"7 Threads of Saint Sabbat" (Edit: Roman Numeral fail...)

"In a Room of Burning People, Some People Burn More"



If any of those need explaining, let me know. If you think they're lame, don't let me know.

[Thatguyoverther]

@Kinslayer
I'm pretty inexperienced, but I'd vote for missile launcher.

@ Cheesegear
I vote for Tyranids. Mostly because after taking a closer look at their new codex, I'm confused as to how they could possibly lose.

[Mattarias, King.]

I like the last one, Lycan. A vote for that. I love me some fire.

[Lycan 01]

Its inspired by something somebody on here once said in relation to how brutal and grim 40K is. "Warhammer 40K, in a nutshell, is like a burning room full of people on fire. And some people are more on fire."

I just want to use that statement somehow...

Edit: Also, I found an old model of a German King Tiger tank from World War 2. I haven't opened the box yet, so I'm not sure how big the tank actually is once constructed, but it should be big enough to fit in with most of my stuff. But I'm hoping that if I construct it, give it a rusty coat and some Ork bits, and have a Boy leaning out the turret hatch (I have a torso, arms, and weapons left from the Boyz kit...), the other players will let me count it as a Looted Wagon.

Any advice on Orking out a WW2 model?

[Ninja Chocobo]

So does the Deff Dread have any advantages?

If you've got a Big Mek, one of them can be a Troops choice.

I haven't opened the box yet, so I'm not sure how big the tank actually is once constructed, but it should be big enough to fit in with most of my stuff.

There's an easy way to see how big a model is. It should have a scale on the box somewhere. A 1/35 King Tiger is roughly the size of a Baneblade, though a bit thinner.

Any advice on Orking out a WW2 model?

Plasticaaaaaaaaaaaaard. Or sheet styrene, depending on where you live.

[Lycan 01]

Nope, no Big Meks. Although if I ever get Lootas and Burnas, I'm kinda tempted to make the Mek into a Big Mek and build him a shield generator...


If I recall correctly, 1/42 or so...


I have plenty of that, and I've gotten quite good with it. I'm gonna cover it in random armor plates, spikes, a Waaaaagh! banner, and of course, a ram.

[Cheesegear]

Also, when you guys say there's a new Inquisition Codex in the works, what does that entail? New Battle Sisters? New Grey Knights? Or *gasp* a mix of both?!

...Maybe. All I know for sure is that both Codecies for Damonhunters and WitchHunters are no longer available from the Online Store and models are no longer being replaced if/when stock runs out. Nor, are GW stores able to get them when they are removed from webstores.
Second, race-specific Missions (i.e; Slave Raids for Dark Eldar) for Grey Knights/Sisters are not found in the upcoming Battle Missions.

So, it either means two things;
The Inquisition is being scrapped as an army, and will receive no further models once current supply runs out (this is happening now)
Or, a new Codex is in the works (woefully unconfirmed)...We can dream.

Best guesses put Codex: Inquistion (rumours also say that 'Codex: Grey Knights' will be a completely different book) at November 2010. At the earliest.
As WHFB 8th Ed. is in the works after Blood Angels, and rumour has it that Necrons, Dark Angels or Dark Eldar are after that.

Either way, I think that'll be my second army.

You'd want to get in quick. What you see currently in physical stores are the only Codecies available. Models may last slightly longer than that.

...I'll head into GW tomorrow to determine the ultimate fate of Grey Knights. If predictions are good (I can maintain purchasing orders until June/July), I will go for Grey Knights (is it cheating if I use allied Infantry Platoons? I'm assuming yes).

If predictions are bad; Tyranids or Chaos Daemons. More likely Tyranids.

[Thatguyoverther]

How bad is the following list?

Spoiler

Show

Company command w2sniper rifles & lascannon master of ordinance 110pts
Company command w2sniper rifles & missile launcher master of ordinance 105pts

Platoon Command w/grenade launchersx4 50
Platoon Command w/grenade launchersx4 50

Combined squad(2) Commissar w/power weapon x2 Sergent w/power weapon x2 flamers x2 (220)

Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55
Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55
Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55
Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55

Grenadier squad w plasma gunx3 miss launcher 160
Grenadier squad w plasma gunx3 miss launcher 160

Basilisk 125

Armored sentinel w/plasma gun cannon x2 150
Armored sentinel w/plasma cannon 75
Armored sentinel w/plasma cannon 75

1500pts

It looks pretty terrible to me but, I don't really have the models to field anything else. There's a tournament coming up and I wanted to get in, I'm not too worried about doing terribly.

[Cheesegear]

How bad is the following list?

Let's see now...

Spoiler

Show

Company command
x2 sniper rifles, lascannon, master of ordinance 110pts

Company command
x2 2sniper rifles, missile launcher, master of ordinance 105pts

...What are your Sniper Rifles doing when your Lascannon is shooting at tanks? What is your Lascannon doing when the Rifles are shooting at Infantry?

These are also your Command Squads...And you have no Medic?
(Or Chimeras, but, I understand 'this is what you have' and buying a Chimera now might be a bit late)

Platoon Command w/grenade launchersx4 50
Platoon Command w/grenade launchersx4 50

Combined squad(2) Commissar w/power weapon x2 Sergent w/power weapon x2 flamers x2 (220)

Infantry squad w grenade launcher x4 110

Here's where it goes wonky (illegal). An Infantry Platoon consists of 1 Command, and 2 Squads.
...What you have here appears to be 2 Commands (inferring two Platoons), but, only 3 Infantry Squads, where the minimum for two Platoons would be at least four Infantry Squads.

I'm also unclear as to how you have 4 Grenade Launchers in one squad.

Vet squad
x3 plasmaguns, miss launcher, grenadier x2 (320)

For 320 Points, you have 4-6 Infantry Squads depending on Heavy Weapons.

Armored sentinel w/plasma cannon x4 300 (2 squads of 1, 1 squad of 2)

Fine. Sort of. Sentinels start to 'go bad' at 1500 points. If you've got something else that might be more effective...

Basilisk 125

Yep...

It looks pretty terrible to me but [...] I'm not too worried about doing terribly.

If you don't care about winning, then there's no problem and it really doesn't matter what your list looks like. First, your formatting is slightly unclear as to what it is you're actually doing. Most of the time you're better off writing out every unit separately (or copy-pasting) rather than saying <Unit> (x2). Especially in the Veteran Squad, as I'm completely unclear on what 'Grenadier x2' means.

Also, I'm pretty sure that your list is illegal, or, I'm reading your formatting wrong.

[Thatguyoverther]

Sorry about the crappy formatting, I've changed it to be easier to read.

Spoiler

Show

Company command: w2sniper rifles & missile launcher, master of ordinance 105pts
Company command: w2sniper rifles & missile launcher, master of ordinance 105pts

Platoon Command: w/grenade launchersx4 50
Platoon Command: w/grenade launchersx4 50

Combined squad(2): Commissar w/power weapon x2, Sergeant w/power weapon x2, flamers x2 (220)

Infantry squad: w/ grenade launcher, missile launcher 70
Infantry squad: w/ grenade launcher, missile launcher 70
Infantry squad: w/ grenade launcher, missile launcher 70
Infantry squad: w/ grenade launcher, missile launcher 70

Grenadier squad: w plasma gunx3 missile launcher 160
Grenadier squad: w plasma gunx3 lascannon 165

Basilisk 125

Armored sentinel w/plasma cannon 75
Armored sentinel w/plasma cannon 75
Armored sentinel w/plasma cannon 75

1500pts

Grenadiers are veteran squads with the carapace armor upgrade. I though it might be help with the Wounds from the plasma guns. Is the medpack worth it, it's 30pts, and the entire squad is only 110 pts?

[Cheesegear]

Sorry about the crappy formatting, I've changed it to be easier to read.

It sure is. Now that I know what you're trying to say, I've fixed your formatting even more.

Spoiler

Show

Company command - 110 Points
x2 sniper rifles, Lascannon
Master of ordinance

Company command - 105 Points
x2 sniper rifles, Missile launcher
Master of ordinance

Same criticism as before. These squads are trying to do two things at once. Try an Autocannon or Heavy Bolter instead of the Lascannon. Or drop the Sniper Rifles for Plasmaguns.

Also, no Medi-Packs? To give your Command Squad Feel No Pain is a huge deal. Otherwise, a single round of Bolter fire will have them all dead. Or, get a Chimera.

Platoon Command - 50
x4 grenade launchers

Infantry Squad - 110
Flamer, Commissar with Power Weapon, Sergeant with Power Weapon
Infantry Squad - 110
Flamer, Commissar with Power Weapon, Sergeant with Power Weapon
Combine Squads

Need more squads. Imperial Guard are not Orks. They don't get Furious Charge. They all have one attack each. Imperial Guard Assault does not work.

Platoon Command - 50
x4 grenade launchers

Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55
Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55
Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55
Infantry squad w grenade launcher 55

No Heavy Weapons?

Grenadier squad - 160
x3 Plasmaguns, missile launcher

Grenadier squad - 160
x3 Plasmaguns, missile launcher

Veteran Squads are bad. You could get four Infantry Squads (with Heavy and Special Weapons) for the price of those two squads.

Basilisk 125

Fine.

Armored sentinel (x2) - 150
Plasma Cannons

Armored sentinel - 75
Plasma Cannon

Armored sentinel - 75
Plasma Cannon

Sentinels in 500 points? Good. Sentinels in 1000 points? Meh. Player's choice. Sentinels in 1500 points? Bad.

Your army, quite seriously, lacks Heavy Weapons. Imperial Guard = Firepower. If your list doesn't carry firepower, you're doing it fairly wrong.

Each Armoured Sentinel costs more than an Infantry Squad with a Lascannon.

...4 Armoured Sentinels with Plasma Cannons...Or 40 Infantry including 4 Plasmaguns and 4 Autocannons (same strength as Plasmagun/Cannon). Infantry Squads can also take Orders. Sentinels can not.

Or, maybe even another 2 Basalisks.

So far, I've managed to pull an extra 8 Infantry Squads with Heavy and special Weapons. By removing four Sentinels and two Veteran Squads.
The Commissars and extra Power Weapons are another 110 points...Also almost another Basalisk.

Find points for Medipacks.

[Thatguyoverther]

Thanks for the advice. I don't think I've got the models to dump the vet squads and the sentinels. But I'll find out. I'm working on getting some more heavy weapons teams, I've got the models to make more, but no more large bases.

I'm definitely going to invest in more basilisks whenever I get a chance.