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2011-02-03, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Makes sense, mechanus is a plane.
This is for the combat style section.
Two-weapon fighting: this style is good, dealing lots of damage, but far more feat intensive than THFing.However, for tiger claw users, it's practically a must.
EDIT: never mind the tiger claw thing.Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-02-04 at 06:23 PM.
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2011-02-03, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Actually, I'd argue that it's just as good for THFers as TWFers. Only a few maneuvers are focused on TWFing, and the bonuses from most are just as applicable and beneficial.
Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook
Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook
Avatar by Miss Nobody. Doll by Recaiden.
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2011-02-03, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-02-03, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-02-03, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-02-03, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
THF benefit more from: Two 2nd level manoeuvres, two 3rd level manoeuvres, one 4th level manoeuvres, two 6th level manoeuvres, two 7th level manoeuvres and the 9th level manoeuvres.
TWF benefit more from: one 1st level manoeuvres, one 1st level stance, one 7th level manoeuvre, one 7th level stance.
Yep, THF is probably better off."It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2011-02-03, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
And Wolf Fang Strike, Dancing Mongoose and Raging Mongoose. Pouncing Strike and Sudden Leap are great for both TWF and THF.
That's enough to be perfectly serviceable in most games, but not quite enough to make it a must have. Swordsages have other nifty boosts for TWF, and are IMO better suited for it.
[Edit]: Double weapons should be mentioned. The ability to use them for TWF or THF on demand is very nice for a Tiger Claw specialist.Last edited by Greenish; 2011-02-03 at 07:34 PM.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-02-03, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-02-03 at 07:38 PM.
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2011-02-03, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-02-03, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2011-02-03, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Right you are. It's not quite useful enough when compared to the competition, sadly, but it does benefit TWF more.
Speaking of TWF, I think Valenar elves should definitely be mentioned. Racial proficiency in double scimitar can combine the best sides of Blood in the Water crit-fishing and THF, and the inimitable Revenant Blade is both a natural lead-in to Eternal Blade, and perhaps the strongest option for TWF.Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-02-03, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I guess TWFing isn't as good as I thought. But he placed shield bashing as blue, so it should still be blue. Valenar double scimitar is awesome for TWFing crit-fishers.
Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-02-03 at 07:55 PM.
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2011-02-03, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
It's a bit feat-starved, lacks reach, suffers from MAD (without dex to damage tricks) and lack of damage (compared to THF chargers) without extra sources of damage. There are ways to make it work, though, and the lower your groups optimization rate, the easier it is.
I agree in that normal TWF is roughly equal to sword'n'board TWF and shield bashing in general.Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-02-04, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Actually, I just figured out the main difference between the two, shield bashing is basically trading away 2 points of damage and an extra damage roll(cause of crit multipliers and threat range) for one or two points of AC. That makes it worse at lower levels, but the damage penalty ages quickly, by 5th level it's practically nothing, and by 10th it's history. However, there's still the extra damage roll for the better crits multipliers and threat ranges weapons have.
Elfin, I think you misread oversized two weapon fighting, cause it's nothing like monkey grip, what it does is allows you to wield a one-handed weapon in your off hand with the penalties for a light weapon. It's very good for crit fishers, because scimitars deal more damage than kukris.Of course, it's one point more damage, while weapon specialization is two... never mind.
These are for the sword rack: spiked chain- excellent for battlefield control, it allows you to trip and get attacks of opportunity from 10 feet away, and a solid choice even if you don't do control, with reach and the ability to attack adjacent foes.
Greatsword- a great choice, with just a bit more damage than the greataxe, and no faults.
Falchion- a decent choice, this is excellent with the keen property and the battle ardor class feature.Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-02-05 at 11:57 AM.
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2011-02-04, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
It is actually very much like Monkey Grip in that it gives you a miniscule damage return for the feat investment. If you 100% have to make a chaotic good dark elf ranger who wields two scimitars...sure, take the feat. If you're trying to do any sort of practical optimization, it probably isn't worth your time/feat investment etc unless you find a way to get it for free.
For a warblade, the difference amounts to:
"Do I spend a feat on Exotic Weapon Prof. and wield two kukris, or do I take Oversize 2xWpn and wield two scimitars"
The latter is a terrible choice because:
1) Weapon Aptitude means the Warblade can use any weapon ever made with the exotic weapon prof. feat, oversized gives him nothing.
2) The damage increase from Oversized is trivial even compared with weapon specialization.
3) It robs the warblade of his ability to use the kukris in a grapple (if it comes to that, the scimitars are strictly worse)
Evidently Kukri's are still martial weapons
This actually makes the comparison worse, it isn't a choice between mandatory feats, it is just "do we choose a feat that can optimisitcally give you +6 extra damage on a full attack". Elfin is right, I don't think that it is worth a feat slot.Last edited by Essence_of_War; 2011-02-04 at 03:57 PM.
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2011-02-04, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
"It doesn't matter how much you struggle or strive,
You'll never get out of life alive,
So please kill yourself and save this land,
And your last mission is to spread my command,"
Slightly adapted quote from X-Fusion, Please Kill Yourself
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2011-02-04, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Fair enough I suppose, but if you're doing two-weapon fighting, I think you're going to be too feat starved to do the usual nonsense with Power Attack, like shock trooper shenanigans, rather than get in alternative sources of damage like 2Wpn Rend. Moreover, by 2Wpn fighting, you're missing out on what makes power attack so tasty to begin with, the bonus damage from wielding a 2hander!
Edit:
Elfin, this discussion raises a good point actually, somethings you could put in the "fighting style section" are "feat lines" or groups of good feats that people should try to fill out for optimal synergy.
For 2Handers:
Charging: Power Attack -> Imp. Bull Rush -> Shock Trooper -> Leap Attack
People with a Reach Weapon:
As 2Handers+:
AoO: Combat Reflexes or Evasive Reflexes or BOTH
Lockdown: Combat Expertise -> Improved Trip (get reflexes first?) -> Knockdown
Push Away: If you have the charging line, add Knockback -> Combat Brute
People Using Two Weapons:
2Wpn Line:2xWpn->Imp 2xWpn->2Wpn Rend -> Grt. 2Wpn
Do you think something like this, to help guide people to the most effective use of feats would be helpful?Last edited by Essence_of_War; 2011-02-04 at 02:30 PM.
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2011-02-04, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-02-04, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Elfin, I think armor specialization is better than that, cause DR 2/- is the same as weapon specialization, only defensive. Of course, it doesn't affect spell damage...
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2011-02-04, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
If you really want a 3rd level stance, then you need to multiclass two levels before you reach warblade 4. Otherwise, you are stuck with two 1st level stances until level 10 unless you spend a feat. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but this may bother some people, like me. They screwed up the stance progression for all three classes. Alternatively, ask for a house rule to allow the changing of a stance known at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter.
A good option is to multiclass fighter for the two levels. You get proficiency in heavy armor and bows. BAB continues to increase linearly. You get a nice bump in fortitude and Moment of Perfect Mind handles the will hit. The big deal is two bonus feats to play around with. You can still take Weapon Specialization if you want it at level 6 as a Fighter 2/Warblade 4 just as you would as Warblade 6.
The cost is 2 average less hit points, a slight delayed gratification on gaining maneuvers but you still get 9th level maneuvers before level 20, and no Stance Mastery before Epic. Still, most campaigns end before level 20 anyway, and even if you do play to level 20 and beyond, the time spent less than 20th level is a lot longer than 20th level and above so you get a lot of mileage.
Alternatively, multiclass Crusader or Swordsage. Crusader gives you the armor, bows, Devoted Spirit if you want, and extra Stone Dragon/White Raven slots to help qualify for higher level maneuvers without using up Warblade slots. Plus, it becomes worth it to spend a feat for Thicket of Blades if you really want it. Swordsage gives you a lot of maneuvers, helping a lot in Stone Dragon, Diamond Mind, and Tiger Claw slots for higher level prerequisites. If you don't need to make a will save that often you can pick up Moment of Perfect Mind here to have more direct actions available in your Warblade slots. If you're going to take Adaptive Style feat anyway, Swordsage couldn't hurt.
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2011-02-04, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2011-02-04 at 04:06 PM.
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2011-02-04, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Elfin, I think armor specialization is better than that, cause DR 2/- is the same as weapon specialization, only defensive. Of course, it doesn't affect spell damage...
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2011-02-04, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
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2011-02-04, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Some more stuff for the sword rack.
Greataxe: very good, it's 30 gp less than the greatsword, and 55 gp less than the falchion.
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2011-02-04, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I actually recommend that for warblades, their 2nd stance be allocated at 6th lv, rather than 5. Reason being that their stances all seem to be granted at even-number lvs (akin to how a sorc learns a new level of spells every even level), so I prefer to maintain this pattern.
So for them, I would houserule the acquisition of a new maneuver readied to 3 at 1st lv, +1 every 5 lvs (so 5, 10, 15, 20), and learning a new stance at lv1, 6, 10 and 16.
For instance if we are using a lot of strikes at full BAB does the few point of to hit outweigh what we could have from another ability score namely CON?
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2011-02-04, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Sure I can see why you might be like that and for you that extra to hit is great. For others having 80-100 extra HP is worth a lot. I was just remarking that str should be a light blue (very good) rather than gold (mandatory nothing better).
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2011-02-04, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-02-04, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I don't see how you can get that much extra hp. You are probably looking at an extra +2 to +4 con max, or +20-40 hp over the course of 20 lvs, unless you are also thinking of buying a tome of con and boosting it every 4 levels.
Bearing in mind that stats become progressively more expensive to buy (in my games at least), raising con from 14 to 16 requires 4 stat points, while raising from 16 to 18 requires 6. That's 10 stat points which could be allocated to str, dex and/or int.
Con is a good secondary stat, IMO, but not one I will pump at the 1st instance.
When I first played a warblade, the DM used 28 point buy, and my stats were str/dex/con/int 14, wis/cha10, with subsequent stat boosts in str. I don't think I would have been able to get con any higher without compromising my other stats.
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2011-02-04, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
Devil's advocate: Why is Vital Recovery red while Improved Toughness gets black? True Vital Recovery is reactive but as a primary frontliner in most campaigns, you only need to Vital Surge once a day to have it provide more HP than Improved Toughness (assuming you are pure, or mostly pure, Warblade obviously). If you have a standard four encounters it's a ton of bonus healing which saves your cleric or druid resources. Also, it is always at least equal to Crusader strike and quickly gets better (1d6+1 averages to 4; Vital Recovery heals 4), especially because instead of chewing up a maneuver readied it provides healing when you refresh your other, better maneuvers.
I'm not arguing that Vital Recovery is particularly great or anything; a non-human Warblade probably has better ways to spend their 7 feats. I just don't think it's unplayably awful for someone looking to mooch a bit of extra survivability out of their build (at least Purple, maybe Black). Then again, I haven't played Warblades at really high levels so maybe at 10+ you just never need to recover maneuvers anymore?Last edited by Hawk7915; 2011-02-04 at 07:48 PM.
Homebrew!
3.5 Edition:
The Planeswalker
Martial Drunken Master PrC
Spirit Caller PrC
4th Edition:
Death Knight
Exotic Beast Master Ranger
Insightful Cleric
The Lifebond Seeker
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2011-02-04, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Masters of the Sword: A Warblade's Handbook [Under Construction]
I'd like to add the Eneko (Eberron: Secrets of Sarlona) under the LA +1 races.
+2 to Str and Con, -2 to Dex and Cha.
Giant Type, Medium Size, Powerful Build, and Longbow proficiency as a bonus feat. They also have spell-like abilities and racial resistance to poison. It's like Half-Giant, but better.
Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay