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2011-01-27, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I think you're overestimating. Yes, they're prejudiced against mutants, but in this case, you wouldn't be a mutant. And there are sufficiently enough things in the world that could reasonably give you something that is mechanically represented as a mutation that I don't think everyone is going to immediately jump on you. I said "God of Things That Can Fly", but I certainly hope you knew that wasn't completely serious.
Find a god that is reasonably associated with something resembling an animal or the sky or something. Do something nice for him. Ask him to give you a high-five. Proceed to tell everyone you were blessed by him. It's not a lie. Alternatively, say you were blessed by Luna - you're speaking figuratively, because her ever-shifting form inspired you to dabble in altering yourself. Or say your were blessed by the Sun - that's absolutely true.
Or are you suggesting entire towns of people will just attack anything that looks remotely strange? Lost Eggs? Godbloods? Their own city god who happens to look like a winged ferret? Ted, the carpenter from down the street who wrote a poem so beautiful that the Goddess of Desert Herons hit him with her wing-granting mojo?
There's also reason that the Solars rely on internal techniques, or have abilities that allow them to always have their external aids at hand. A fight against anyone with the capability to harm you is going to see your wings being targeted.
A starting Solar is astronomically far from being anywhere near the top. They have the potential to get there, but that's a long way away.
And I think you know full well what I meant. Solars are the most powerful entities in the Exalted universe, and they should be able to do this with relative ease. Becoming Essence 10, dying, and then having a Neverborn soul attached to you is not "relative ease".
It fits within the thematics of the Solar Exalted, which is really what you should be considering when you look at a Charm.
They are peerless archers. And an archer is never without his bow. A Solar never need find himself defenseless from chance or malice, for he can will it and his weapon will appear at his hand.
Of course, you're also wrong.5e D&D Mythos Classes
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2011-01-27, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
And they know this how?
And there are sufficiently enough things in the world that could reasonably give you something that is mechanically represented as a mutation that I don't think everyone is going to immediately jump on you.
I said "God of Things That Can Fly", but I certainly hope you knew that wasn't completely serious.
Or are you suggesting entire towns of people will just attack anything that looks remotely strange?
Lost Eggs?
Godbloods?
Their own city god who happens to look like a winged ferret?
Ted, the carpenter from down the street who wrote a poem so beautiful that the Goddess of Desert Herons hit him with her wing-granting mojo?
You can apply this to anything. Oh, the Solar has arms? Called shot; he's dumb for having such a weakness. Eyes? Well, called shot on them too. What's the penalty for targeting the poor Solar's junk who hasn't bought Junk Internalizing Technique?
We're not talking about a starting Solar. We're talking about an Essence 4 Solar who has sunk a non-trivial amount of experience into doing this one thing.
And an Essence 4 Solar still has a ways to go.
And I think you know full well what I meant. Solars are the most powerful entities in the Exalted universe, and they should be able to do this with relative ease. Becoming Essence 10, dying, and then having a Neverborn soul attached to you is not "relative ease".
And again, being a Solar does not automatically make you able to do everything with ease. A Solar can do almost anything with enough time and work. That does not mean they can do anything easily.
Flying is one of those things.Hell, flying is not one of those things. Waiting until Essence 4 to gain personal flight isn't a huge restriction.
That's absolutely what I'm considering. I think flight fits very nicely into the thematics of the Solar Exalted. I agree that Summoning the Loyal Bow works with the thematics of an archer, I do not, however, think it works with the thematic of "mundane abilities, but better", which is what we were talking about. You're changing the context of what I said.
Last edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-01-27 at 12:30 AM.
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2011-01-27, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Okay, I think this characterizes the problem with this whole first bit. You're making the world out to be more vicious and xenophobic that I think the default necessarily is. I get that the world is meant to be vicious and xenophobic to a degree, but it's also supposed to be a place of fantasy. A place where fantasy things happen; not a place that just stamps out any overtly fantastic things without asking any questions.
Hell, I posted an article earlier written by one of the Exalted developers saying that no one in Creation would hate you even if they knew you were an Infernal. Even if you glowed with malicious green light and had wings and horns and giant brass armor covered with spikes and blasphemous writing.
Now, maybe you play in a world far more grimdark than the developers intended, but I don't think that should enter into the equation.
Three or four charms is not a heavy amount of experience.
A Essence 10 Solar is the most powerful entity in the Exalted universe, sure. A lower Essence Solar can beat a lot of things, even things you would suspect would be outside of his weight class. But they are not the most powerful beings in the Exalted universe.
And again, being a Solar does not automatically make you able to do everything with ease. A Solar can do almost anything with enough time and work. That does not mean they can do anything easily.
Flying is one of those things.Hell, flying is not one of those things. Waiting until Essence 4 to gain personal flight isn't a huge restriction.
Except "mundane abilities, but better" is only one theme of the Solar Exalted.
Uh. Page 189, Exalted 2e. Check it.5e D&D Mythos Classes
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2011-01-27, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
By default setting, the people of the Air must hide their wings or be mistaken for mutants/beastmen. People of the Air, if you don't know, look like mortals with wings.
Yeah, creation's pretty zenophobic.He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
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2011-01-27, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
So, I just read Eagle Wing Style, and it sounds pretty much exactly like what Gohan said when he taught Videl to fly. I'm wondering if that was intentional.
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2011-01-27, 05:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-01-27, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
But why would you need perfect balance when you can fly?
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2011-01-27, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Because it is scene-long, costs Willpower to use and Essence 4. At Essence 4, you can get Unparalleled Acumen Meditation and have all three Charms (plus Lightning Speed and Monkey Leap Technique if you have them) up indefinitely for a lower cost than the sum of all three. And you can stop your movement and use your grand daiklave at the same time.
Why would you need flight if no one else is flying, anyway? Maybe if you need to cross lava or something, but otherwise, perfect balance gets you the same amount of places as flight for cheaper.I use black for sarcasm.
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2011-01-27, 05:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Flying is cooller?
Otherwise fair points.Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2011-01-27, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-01-27, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
In the case of function, you are certainly right.
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2011-01-27, 05:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Small accuracy pools? You've never been on the wrong side of a Diablos's Homing Charge, have you? The only thing that allows you to dodge that thing is the game-induced temprary invulnerabilty hax
But, in any case, as said, the problems are manyfold. First, an important point about Monhun weapons is that while they are near-magic, it's not their forger that makes them magic. It's the materials used, the fiery gullet of a fire wyvern giving your hammer fire powers, or the nimbleness of the Nargacuga getting imbued in the armor made from its skin. This doesn't jive much with Exalted's "you must have this much Essence to forge decent weapons" rollercoaster-like entry bar. Plus an Exalt can make the same thing with the terrible skypiercer of an Alatreon's head (which, for the noninitiated, is basically a Penta-Elemental Elemental Dragon) as with a chunk of orichalcum, which kind of hurts the conceit of it all a bit. Actually, on a practical sense, it'd be better to go with the Orichalcum or whatever - it's just going to look gaudy as hell, as the Magical materials are wont to. And of course, there's the attunement cost.
However, this is really the least bothersome part. Waive Attunements, make the Wyverian crafters into Mountain Folk, and works well enough.
No, the problem is, again, there's the annoying "mortals just lose at everything" attitude pervading all of Exalted's ruleset. There's entirely too many effects that don't so much as allow a save to mortals (especially among the Fae, which is a big problem if we're going to be fighting Behemoths, since Fae are generally the ones that make the behemoths). Monster Hunter is all about how normal humans, through arduous training, smart fighting, and balls of solid orichalcum, can overcome impressive monsters that could kill them wenty times over (fairly reflected on how you need a couple hundred hits to kill a monster that kills you in two). Exalted is mostly about how normal humans suck and you all but need magic to not trip on your own feet. This causes a bit of a themathic and mechanical clash, to put it mildly. It's probably going to take a fair deal of houseruling and plain ignoring a great deal of stuff, to be honest.Last edited by Drascin; 2011-01-27 at 06:03 AM.
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2011-01-27, 05:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Incidentally, a question:
How often do you make a character and then go 'hey, I've just made [insert anime/movie/tv show character] as an Exalted!'?
I mean, in one game on these forums, one of my characters has a lot in common with Winry... but that's all. On the other hand, I'm itching to play a Night Caste based on Ezio Auditore da Firenze or Assassin from Fate/Stay Night (Tsubame Gaeshi is easy to do with Solar Melee, though).
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2011-01-27, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
This does not seem to be a big problem, since a mortal with no Essence pool and an Essence rating of 1 can create artifacts up to 3 dots (it will take hell of a long time, and if he does it alone, he will need to find the exotic components himself, which is mighty dangerous, but still).
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If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-01-27, 06:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2011-01-27, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Not too often, myself, but I obviously see how it can be done. It's mostly because the number of Exalts I've statted out myself can still be counted on one hand.
But partially-due to my vision being blurry when I've taken my contact lenses out, having read your post, I feel the strangest desire to make an Exalt based off of Yotsuba.
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2011-01-27, 06:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Generally, it's relatively deliberate when it happens - I have little problem in cribbing inspiration from anywhere at all, long as it's not a total clone. I've done a Zero-based alchemical (which, to be honest, was a short ride. The Alchemicals manual is swimming in Megaman references), and if I ever manage to get the stomach to play a Solar, it's going to be based off either Carmen Sandiego or Ferb Fletcher.
Oh, the craftsman wouldn't find the components himself. Really, Hunters and craftsmen have a symbiotic relationship. Hunters are the ones who go out and beat horrible monsters and expertly skin them - craftsmen then use those pieces to make stuff for the Hunters. Still, Wyverians do fit as Mountain Folk in any case.
Yotsuba doesn't need no stinking Social Charms to make everyone's lives happier!Last edited by Drascin; 2011-01-27 at 06:15 AM.
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2011-01-27, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- In America!
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2011-01-27, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I'm trying to make a Ghost-Blooded character, and I ran up against this in Scroll of Heroes: "Children of ghosts can learn Arcanoi just as their parents, but they suffer the same limitations as other God-Blooded. For example, Ghost-Bloods cannot usually reshape their flesh."
What exactly does that mean? Does it ban using Shifting Ghost-Clay Arcanoi on yourself? Does it ban using Pyre Smoke Form to become immaterial?
Not often, but halfway through writing up a Twilight with Deliberate Cruelty, every healing-related artifact and hearthstone I could, and a Wrackstaff fluffed as a cane, I realized that he was basically House.
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2011-01-27, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-01-27, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I am officially a slave to my muse. So far I have a desire to homebrew:
- A martial art style combining extreme muscle control with essence to do stuff like providing natural lethal/bashing soak and hardness.
- A Yozi charm tree (And a few souls/demons) with a higher-power charm (Just for flavour so far) that basically makes history false.
- A Warstrider-sized adamant daiklaive made from a piece of The Core.
- A Soulsteel daiklaive forged from one of the Neverborn. (Rather brave, rather stupid Abyssal.)
Thoughts?Originally Posted by The-Mage-King;
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2011-01-27, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
So... Earth Dragon Style?
A Yozi charm tree (And a few souls/demons) with a higher-power charm (Just for flavour so far) that basically makes history false.
A Warstrider-sized adamant daiklaive made from a piece of The Core.
A Soulsteel daiklaive forged from one of the Neverborn. (Rather brave, rather stupid Abyssal.)Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-01-27 at 01:36 PM.
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2011-01-27, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Flying 101:
a) Find a f(r)iendly Fair Folk Diplomat.
b) Give it gossamer (or mortals, or...)
c) Get your own Staff Grace from your f(r)iend
d) Have the f(r)iend turn it into a 1-dot Adjuration with Gossamer Winged Flight
e) Enjoy the ability to fly, per Wings mutation, without wings, for 1 commited mote.
f) If you really want to go further, be an Exalt, get a 2-dot Adjuration instead of 1-dot, and add Racing Dragon Speed for accelerated flight.
Feasible at Essence 2 (or 1)
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2011-01-27, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
There are martial arts that can do this kind of stuff, but it's not really an appropriate thing to base an entire style around (not that my opinion should stop you if you want to do this). Martial arts are supposed to do weird things that you can't access with your own charm tree.
A Yozi charm tree (And a few souls/demons) with a higher-power charm (Just for flavour so far) that basically makes history false.
A Warstrider-sized adamant daiklaive made from a piece of The Core.
A Soulsteel daiklaive forged from one of the Neverborn. (Rather brave, rather stupid Abyssal.)
They have people to do that for them.
Originally Posted by MeschlumLast edited by Mr.Bookworm; 2011-01-27 at 02:05 PM.
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2011-01-27, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Was wondering if there was anything similar. Soz.
Sounds headachey.
Awesome!
They are gonna HATE you. xD Plus how?Last edited by Cyborg Mage; 2011-01-27 at 02:07 PM.
Originally Posted by The-Mage-King;
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2011-01-27, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Well, there's a pretty big tradition of spirits giving parts of themselves into the creation of an artifact. Not going to be easy, by any means, but perhaps you can ask him about it.
Well, using part of the neverborn itself would certainly be an exotic component. Probably fit for an N/A artifact, all by itself(getting the piece, now that's the hard part.).
Also, anyone have a good idea for the name of an Earth Manse? It's supposed to be a hidden cavern, and either a Workshop manse or more likely an Atelier-Manse.He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
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2011-01-27, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
As I remembered, Autocthon already had chunks of his core pulled out for artifact creation. He's got defense spirits there to keep people from just randomly pulling out bits of his brain, but the divine ministers do periodically approve the taking of small amounts of adamant from the great maker's mind for vital projects.
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2011-01-27, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
Just checking, since I lack the book, what does Repair 4 entail?
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2011-01-27, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-01-27, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal
This is, however, no small ammount. While not exactly very dangerous to his health, it's widely agreed that the chunk of the Core that made the daiklaive is the reason Autochthon isn't waking up. However, they simply aren't sure how to reattach such a large shard without causing further damage to The Core. For example, they're not sure whether the Design Weavers will reattach it themselves or go autoimmune on it (It was made a long time ago).
Originally Posted by The-Mage-King;
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