Erfworld 159 - tBfGK 146

[BLANDCorporatio]

All this talk of Veiling Wanda is pointless.

1) You can move on your turn, other people CAN'T because their move drops to zero when they end turn....
And note she already did something very similar with Manpower the Temporary. He died, she flew over and uncroaked him, then she flew back and argued with Tool.

Good point, and this has in fact been covered as a possibility; the veil was added as an extra-precaution, but it also serves another purpose. Wanda needs to retreat, and this can help conceal the "to where" part.

She is subject to fire. She enters their hex, they can attack. Of course, they have to break the veil first, but if she's going to every battle to decrypt she's going to get unlucky eventually and then it's all over.
...
There will, but they won't make enough difference for the pliers to be overpowered. They'll be weak units, and they'll be uncommon.
...
What I'm saying is that they already hinted at this. No longer will money be an issue for Stanley, they're probably the richest side in Erfworld according to Sizemore. Using the pliers to make money may be useful, but it's not really a revelation. From a narrative point of view, they basically told us to forget about costs. It doesn't really matter why.
...
I don't think splitting is as easy as you think it is. I think dissent in Gobwin Knob will result in your brilliant cheese not being used, rather than the side splitting into a side that will use it and one that won't.

Wanda taking fire: see a post above, from Dark Matter that I just replied to. I think he disagrees with you, and provides some confirmation for why I think Wanda is safe from attacks on her turn.

"Not enough difference": it's your opinion, my opinion is that the ability to transform everything the opponent loses into reinforcements for you is a very powerful tactic.

Money issue: we also know what usually happened when a city is conquered. GK now has the ability to redevelop conquered cities much faster than anyone else. You can't win by holding just one city, but if you can expand fast- and GK can expand much faster now than anyone else- the odds start looking a lot better. So much better in fact that I see that Decrypted Horde marching all over.

Finally, splitting is not supposed to be easy; but it could be hinted at, with Parson's current moodiness, for example.

Finally, cheese works! It works so well, that it's use is frowned upon as somehow unsporting. So yeah, guess GK has lots of cheese now

[ishnar]

A notion occurs to me ...

Parson's 3D specs. His Warlord's Sword. His Mathamancy bracer. Where did they come from?!

Are we to assume that the Cosmic Forces of Erfworld simply slipped them into his morning Stupid Meal just to rectify some imbalance? If that were the case, why aren't there more artifacts (the bracer has been classed as an artifact) running around?

Ok, first no one is assuming anything. The breakfast box itself stated that the spell was correcting the problems with summoning a not quite perfect erfwarlord. It didn't fix an imbalance, it fixed a broken Parson. And the bracer is not an artifact, it's only a magic item. Sizemore only said that it might qualify as an artifact, not that it was.

Still, ever since parson started getting items in his meal, I always wondered if the 5th arkentool might be hidden in the netherspace that food pops from. But gamewise, the food popping at dawn is just moneymancy. Converting money to anything is moneymancy in erf.

In fact, why is Parson's food customized for him to resemble Earth food? Even Code Red Mountain Dew?

For the same reason that Wanda gets sushi but stanley did not. Because the game pops culturally appropriate food.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Wanda taking fire: see a post above, from Dark Matter that I just replied to. I think he disagrees with you, and provides some confirmation for why I think Wanda is safe from attacks on her turn.

Dark Matter assumes you croak everything in the hex which you still refuse to address. If you're going to just assume that they'll automatically win every conflict (even if you say that you don't assume that), I'm just going to ignore it until you justify it. If you don't croak everything in the hex, they're allowed to attack when a hostile unit enters the hex. This has been shown (and referenced by Word of the Titans) repeatedly.

"Not enough difference": it's your opinion, my opinion is that the ability to transform everything the opponent loses into reinforcements for you is a very powerful tactic.

Not everything. Gah! You keep apparently conceding this point and yet you never actually do!

Finally, splitting is not supposed to be easy; but it could be hinted at, with Parson's current moodiness, for example.

Could be, but I doubt it. Parson had much more motivation to jump ship when he was losing. If he ever had the power to split, why do it now?

Finally, cheese works! It works so well, that it's use is frowned upon as somehow unsporting. So yeah, guess GK has lots of cheese now

Cheese works, but it makes for very bad storytelling on either side. Which I believe was your argument.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Dark Matter assumes you croak everything in the hex which you still refuse to address. If you're going to just assume that they'll automatically win every conflict (even if you say that you don't assume that), I'm just going to ignore it until you justify it. If you don't croak everything in the hex, they're allowed to attack when a hostile unit enters the hex. This has been shown (and referenced by Word of the Titans) repeatedly.

Links.

The point is not that you kill everything, the point is that you don't use Wanda to attack. In that case, whatever enemy force remains will have no reason to do defensive fire on her, more so after doing defensive fire on the GK units that attacked at start-of-turn.

(ADDED: about "everyhting the opponent loses": that means, anything you get to croak, not necessarily battles won. Yeah, in a battle the two sides will trade losses, as in units croaked on the field. With the Pliers they can be quickly restored to their previous fighting stats, only now loyal to GK. A very nice source of reinforcements.)

Could be, but I doubt it. Parson had much more motivation to jump ship when he was losing. If he ever had the power to split, why do it now?

That was a game, a challenge! This is a slaughter of what he starts to view as real people.

Cheese works, but it makes for very bad storytelling on either side. Which I believe was your argument.

So, you do see what I am arguing for.

What we disagree on is whether GK has the power to unleash an oversized bucket of hurt on Erfworld. Fair enough, my argument has several steps and we are debating the very first one. "GK can do lots of cheese, more so this is its reasonable option, cheese makes for bad story-telling*, therefore GK will, by some plot action, either come to a state where said cheese is not an option or the protagonist switches sides/is switched".

In a nutshell that's it.

(*EDIT: the problem with nutshells is they lack nuance and I can just see a certain comment rearing its ugly head again. So a clarification.

Up until now GK was desperate. Outnumbered 25 to 1, surrounded, nowhere for most of them to go to. Parson HAD to find exploits, and it was always a case that GK did not seem in a position to afford failure.

Opinions, as they are wont to do, differ on this, but I say GK is far from desperate now. Quite the contrary.)

[Zeku]

The stupid meal accessories are the remnants of the summoning spell. That is specifically stated on the meal that has the maze on it.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0118.html

It was a well crafted spell. So much so that it does it's job properly even when the caster is unaware of the specific requirements of both the casting and the object of the caster. "Fully automated." No doubt the exact wording of the spell has a monstrous quantity of logical checks and rechecks, like a big computer program.

[torgen]

I'm lost. No one knew that Wanda would attune to the pliers or what the effect would be. I assume that Wanda intuited or was somehow taught how to decrypt once she did attune but doubt that she had any inkling of their power before that.

I have to disagree. Panel 9: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F122.jpg

If he touches her with the Arkenpliers, she will attune to them instead of being killed by them. She knows it, and Ansom realizes that she knows something that HE doesn't and weirds out over it. You can see in panel 10 that he is actually moving the pliers AWAY from Wanda, to the other side of his body.

[torgen]

To everyone who keeps mentioning Misty...can't happen.

Misty died a turn or two previously. Her body is gone. Poof. No decrypt.

Wrong.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F077a.jpg

Misty's body was moved. Not only moved, but buried in solid rock, and Sizemore knows where she is.

[Wyvv]

Jumping into the "Are the pliers overpowered?" discussion/arguement, I'd like to point some things out that I think is very important to deciding this.

Are we talking about overpowered in Gobin Knob's position, or for any side at all?

If so, I get the impression that Gobwin Knob is not on the edge or side of the map.(Or perhaps Erf is round) It also doesn't seem they have much in the way of solid barriers, but instead are a good distance away from any side other then Faq and possibly Transylvito. Actually, now that I think about it, is having few close sides common on Erf? If it is, and I'm right about Gobwin Knob's surrounding area, the pliers ability to decrypt may not be as tactically valuable. Being attacked on multiple fronts would make it much more difficult to decrypt more units then you've lost. Something else to take into account is that they only hold a single level one city and need to expand quickly. Wanda with the pliers doesn't seem like a good choice for quick expansion, though following and decrypting would probably help reinforce the cities that have been captured.

If for anyside, without units like Dwagons and Stanley how hard would it be to ensure a win or keep Wanda safe so she can decrypt? To take advantage of Decryption it seems you need to be able to take out powerful units, or at least a large number of weaker ones. You'd be quite vulnerable to heavy hitters with less tactical versatility. If the enemy withdrew most of their units to a defensible position, the pliers wouldn't be much help taking the city. They'd nearly eliminate downtime, which is quite useful, but not exactly overpowered.

Do Decrypted get a huge bonus like uncroaked do when led by a croakamancer? If so

What units, if any, can't be uncroaked? It makes sense that golems of anykind might not be able to be uncroaked. Possibly other things of an elemental nature as well, like gumps.

Finally, we really haven't seen a good comparison of a strong units capabilities to a weak units. Without getting a good idea of how combat works from a statistics point of view, we have no idea how much more pwerful Decrypting is then Uncroaking. I'd wager the difference becomes more extreme as more powerful units are uncroaked/decrypted, but for most units, it may not make much difference.

Anyway, I think the pliers are a rather powerful tool, but the limitation of Wanda only being in one place at a time means it can probably be countered. At least when defending against them. I'm not quite sure how I'd go about attacking a city with Wanda and the pliers inside. Any failed assault would doom the entire siege. Isolate and build up forces for an overwhelming attack seems the only option to me.

[Kender Wizard]

Just a few things I haven't seen posted before (doesn't mean they are't there, just haven't seen them):

First off, the strategy of moving Wanda in to uncroak in the middle of a battle may actually be practical. In regards to enemy fire, it seems that units can prevent others that they are protecting from being assulted till the guards are dealt with. Assemble a strong strike force (archons perhaps, with a warlord) to go with her with instructions to protect her from damage with their lives, and suddenly Wanda is a far tougher target and would likely survive going into a combat zone, assuming care was taken to prevent more than scattered resistance.

Second, judging from the fact that Wanda does not seem to have a limit on how many bodies she can decrypt (has done hundreds, if not thousands already) and that she does it very fast with little or no concentration (she holds a discussion during the decryption process with no problems, almost acting like she is just triggering the arkenpliers with no other input from her being needed), I would imagine that she can do this regardless of whose turn it is. Also, if placed on the attack, her guards/protectors(see above statements) could croak the most powerful of the enemy, she decrypts them immediately, and repeats till the enemy is routed. With care, this is a workable plan.

Lastly, the most important thing I think: Assuming that the pliers decryption is unlimited, and that aside from an adjustment in loyalty and attitudes the decrypted are normal erfworlders, the pliers could be the key to totally changing erfworld. I did not agree that a war of conquest would end all wars, because nobles (who could be popped and if GK grew large enough, probably would be popped) could break from GK eventually and create their own sides. If the above assumptions are true, the world could be completely remade with decrypted without really needing to expand GK, and because their loyalty as decrypted is absolute, they would never break into another faction... there would at last be peace in erfworld. (Ansom is proof enough of that for me, his loyalty had to be modified, even if he would naturally alter his beliefs in the fact of hard evidence, he had three uninterrupted seconds in which to ponder all of this before he stated his new firmly held beliefs- also, what good would the pliers be if the decrypted came back the same as they were before, they'd just try killing you again).

[Azukar]

For all those claiming the Arkentools (and 'pliers in particular) are a deus ex machina, I humbly suggest a more appropriate term:

The Arkenpliers are a machinus ex dei.

No, I couldn't help myself.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Links.

Rob: When it is not your turn, and someone moves into the space you're on (meaning hex or city zone), then you can engage them.

The point is not that you kill everything, the point is that you don't use Wanda to attack. In that case, whatever enemy force remains will have no reason to do defensive fire on her, more so after doing defensive fire on the GK units that attacked at start-of-turn.

They have every reason to use defensive fire on her, she's the single most important unit in all of Gobwin Knob! With your strategy, I wouldn't be surprised if Gobwin Knob's enemies set aside forces for the express purpose of assassinating her (not that they'd be likely to reach her, as most of the time she'd be well protected).

(ADDED: about "everyhting the opponent loses": that means, anything you get to croak, not necessarily battles won. Yeah, in a battle the two sides will trade losses, as in units croaked on the field. With the Pliers they can be quickly restored to their previous fighting stats, only now loyal to GK. A very nice source of reinforcements.)

I understand that. What I keep trying to impress upon you is that sending Wanda into a hex with hostile units is risky, seeing as your entire plan depends on an attuned Arkenpliers and she's the only one known to attune to them.

That was a game, a challenge! This is a slaughter of what he starts to view as real people.

Bull. Parson was scared and disturbed, even if he saw it as a game. He played along because he had no choice. Sure, he enjoyed the challenge but he genuinely believed that his life was in danger (and it was) and I'm sure would have welcomed the chance to switch to a less doomed side.

So, you do see what I am arguing for.

What we disagree on is whether GK has the power to unleash an oversized bucket of hurt on Erfworld. Fair enough, my argument has several steps and we are debating the very first one. "GK can do lots of cheese, more so this is its reasonable option, cheese makes for bad story-telling*, therefore GK will, by some plot action, either come to a state where said cheese is not an option or the protagonist switches sides/is switched".

In a nutshell that's it.

Aye. I and others have offered many plausible alternatives to overpowered pliers, which you have ignored. I believe your theory is not an elegant way of dealing with it, and that an overpowered enemy is every bit as bad for storytelling as an overpowered protagonist.

(*EDIT: the problem with nutshells is they lack nuance and I can just see a certain comment rearing its ugly head again. So a clarification.

Up until now GK was desperate. Outnumbered 25 to 1, surrounded, nowhere for most of them to go to. Parson HAD to find exploits, and it was always a case that GK did not seem in a position to afford failure.

Opinions, as they are wont to do, differ on this, but I say GK is far from desperate now. Quite the contrary.)

The last few strips are very strongly hinting that the comic is not going to be about a struggling underdog any more. I don't think this is a bad thing. Just because we started with impossible odds doesn't mean Book 2 has to artificially repeat those odds.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Wanda with the pliers doesn't seem like a good choice for quick expansion, though following and decrypting would probably help reinforce the cities that have been captured.

The argument then would rather come to the opposite conclusion. Wanda with ArkenPliers is the perfect asset for a quick expansion. We know that units, unless they are very valuable casters, tend to get croaked or disbanded to avoid loyalty issues. Therefore, whoever takes a city needs to spend some troops to bring it back to whatever it was capable of in terms of production. Not so with Wanda, who can raise the population (or a significant portion of it) with all their previous abilities and no rotting in sight, plus with loyalty to GK.

Rob: When it is not your turn, and someone moves into the space you're on (meaning hex or city zone), then you can engage them.

They have every reason to use defensive fire on her, she's the single most important unit in all of Gobwin Knob! With your strategy, I wouldn't be surprised if Gobwin Knob's enemies set aside forces for the express purpose of assassinating her (not that they'd be likely to reach her, as most of the time she'd be well protected).

You assume they know about Wanda already. They won't at first. Plus, there's what Kender Wizard was describing above. Added to that is the instance when we see Jack's veil in action (that page and the next battle pages. Bats, Transylivitan Warlords, Jillian, all primed to kill Stanley and no other distractions in all the hex. Stopped cold by "crypsis".

Don't knock it out just yet.

I understand that. What I keep trying to impress upon you is that sending Wanda into a hex with hostile units is risky, seeing as your entire plan depends on an attuned Arkenpliers and she's the only one known to attune to them.

Everything has a risk. Based on some of the mechanics of the game, it is mitigated. Plus, "my entire" plan is an overstatement on your part. I have yet to see you comment on the intelligence gathering possibilities of the Pliers, or the rapid expansion scenario. No, a casual dismissal as "irelevant" is not a cogent argument.

Bull. Parson was scared and disturbed, even if he saw it as a game. He played along because he had no choice. Sure, he enjoyed the challenge but he genuinely believed that his life was in danger (and it was) and I'm sure would have welcomed the chance to switch to a less doomed side.

Yes, he most definitely would have eh? Read that. I don't think it says what you think it says.

Aye. I and others have offered many plausible alternatives to overpowered pliers, which you have ignored. I believe your theory is not an elegant way of dealing with it, and that an overpowered enemy is every bit as bad for storytelling as an overpowered protagonist.

The antagonist doesn't need to be superpowerful ... though it sometimes helps ... The idea rather is that GK survived a furious attack and barely escaped the jaws of defeat. You don't expect this kind of situation to result in a complete turning of the tables.

As for what you and many others have offered, some of those things were actually good points which were used to refine the cheese I was proposing. And for that thank you all, it means the discussion is progressing somewhere (ahem, but see the last paragraph). Case in point, the "village of the damned" idea which changed from some nondescript leaving of sacrificial troops to a fast expand strategy.

The last few strips are very strongly hinting that the comic is not going to be about a struggling underdog any more. I don't think this is a bad thing. Just because we started with impossible odds doesn't mean Book 2 has to artificially repeat those odds.

Agreed. It doesn't have to be a struggling underdog, it's just that GK is, and of course you can disagree with me here, far far far from the underdog right now. It's where the smart money is.

However, we have the current front page of erfworld.com and therefore word of god from Rob Balder (sorry no permalink) saying that:

Book 2 takes place a lot of days/turns ahead of the end of Book 1. That's the "narrative distance" I mentioned in the GiantITP forums.

Whatever lies in the future for GK, we'll have to wait a while to see. Of course, book 2 promises to bring us more back story and therefore more food for speculation and disagreement. See you there!

[Krelon]

on the overpowered discussion:

Imagine 3 sides starting the game:

1st with dish: popping free archons, unlimited communication/intel
2nd with hammer: popping free dwagons, combat moves (flight, lightning)
3rd with pliers: decrypting, dust uncroaked

Which side would you like to play?

All artifacts are possibly "gamebreaking", which means that the side controlling them has a huge advantage. Which one is "better" depends on the situation. At the moment the circumstances favor the pliers but don't forget that the circumstances are what a gamer dreams to pull off: lure a major force into a trap and turn it against your opponent by some means (decrypt/bribe/mind control/misdirect/...). Things like that don't happen a lot.

[Moechi_Vill]

Two Important Points based on story facts

Free Will
Parson lacks effective free will, the spell effect is not completely dominant as he kindly requested the casters to leave, but largely discussions about what HE wants to do are overshooting his capacity for choice.

Power Balance
There are two other superweapons to oppose the Toolians, this is clear. Even if there wasn't there are ways, though hard they may be.
And most of all, 'Time and chance gets them all.' (The Bible).

Just my twenty cents ;^_=.

[DevilDan]

I just think that therefore Parson entering the magic kingdom had importance to the story. I could be reading too much into it, but smaller details have become important.

I absolutely agree that we will learn more about why Parson was able to get into the Magic Kingdom. Rob could have easily come up with another way of saving Parson; I mean, even I could suggest one or two 'sploits.

I do have another thought on "uberpowered'/"gamebreaking." Maybe what we're witnessing now is just another step in Erf's version of this famous scene.

[fendrin]

...an overpowered enemy is every bit as bad for storytelling as an overpowered protagonist.

Whoa, what? That's not just a classic, it's a staple!

Off the top of my head I can think of many epic tales that feature overpowered enemies:

Lord of The Rings
Star Wars
Erfworld Book 1 ()
Pick your favorite Cthulhu Mythos story
Matrix
Dark Crystal
Predator
Dracula
Sword of Truth
Alien
War of the Worlds
Thomas Covenant
Any Star Trek episode/move/book where they face off against the Borg
Just about every horror story ever written

I could go on, but I think my point has been made.

[teratorn]

The last few strips are very strongly hinting that the comic is not going to be about a struggling underdog any more.

GK has got two tools. The owners of the other two tools may join forces against them, and backed by Parson's battle calculations they know when and with how many units to fight. Parson severely handicapped his own side with those promised calculations. Parson may have tough times ahead of him, at least for the next seven battles.

Besides, we have Vinny and if there's an Erfworldian that can find a way to cheat that's him.

[eminence_grise]

Free Will
Parson lacks effective free will, the spell effect is not completely dominant as he kindly requested the casters to leave, but largely discussions about what HE wants to do are overshooting his capacity for choice.

I suspect that if Parson were sufficiently motivated to look for loopholes, he could figure out a way to disobey effectively at a critical moment, despite the leash. Bending the rules is what he got hired for, isn't it?

[eminence_grise]

I absolutely agree that we will learn more about why Parson was able to get into the Magic Kingdom. Rob could have easily come up with another way of saving Parson; I mean, even I could suggest one or two 'sploits.

Another thing regarding the Magic Kingdom that seemed to escaped notice at the time. Janis and Spock appeared to be ready for Parson when he arrived, and already had their plan worked out. This smells of Predictamancy to me. This shouldn't be terribly surprising, Predictamancy was involved in the Summon Perfect Warlord spell in the first place, they'd be remiss to not research a few questions like "so, what's gonna happen when somebody actually casts this thing?"

[DevilDan]

Predictamancy was involved in the Summon Perfect Warlord spell in the first place, they'd be remiss to not research a few questions like "so, what's gonna happen when somebody actually casts this thing?"

Maybe Parson truly isn't a unit in the literal sense, but something more related to magic than to a fully instantiated game unit. (An emulated unit?)

[Moechi_Vill]

I suspect that if Parson were sufficiently motivated to look for loopholes, he could figure out a way to disobey effectively at a critical moment, despite the leash. Bending the rules is what he got hired for, isn't it?

He was hired for being 'perfect' in his area. What's the point of a half-million schmucker spell if it's loyalty effect is not strong?

I'm sure he could weasel out of parts of it, but to do so completely he'd need help - and either way it would be a guaranteed long and difficult, perhaps tedious process.

[HandofShadows]

Another thing regarding the Magic Kingdom that seemed to escaped notice at the time. Janis and Spock appeared to be ready for Parson when he arrived, and already had their plan worked out. This smells of Predictamancy to me. This shouldn't be terribly surprising, Predictamancy was involved in the Summon Perfect Warlord spell in the first place, they'd be remiss to not research a few questions like "so, what's gonna happen when somebody actually casts this thing?"

Actually I had noticed and remarked on the fact Janis and Co. seemed to be waiting. In addition to a predictimancer Janis could have been watching the events at GK with the help of an Eyemancer.

[raphfrk]

Parson severely handicapped his own side with those promised calculations. Parson may have tough times ahead of him, at least for the next seven battles.

Parson can also do the same calculations (and isn't limited to conserving the number of calculations he uses). This means that the field is slightly more balanced when he is fighting Charlie. However, Parson is "the perfect warlord". Being able to calculate probabilities is only one part of this.

Also, the deal he made was clearly worth it. He managed to prevent Stanley from being croaked and prevented Wanda from taking his few remaining flying troops to him.

OTOH, without the deal, the Archons wouldn't have been around to interfere with the battle in GK itself (but Stanley croaking would have made that irrelevant.)

[Kilkrazy]

He was hired for being 'perfect' in his area. What's the point of a half-million schmucker spell if it's loyalty effect is not strong?

I'm sure he could weasel out of parts of it, but to do so completely he'd need help - and either way it would be a guaranteed long and difficult, perhaps tedious process.

Parson can probably do what he likes providing he believes that it serves the ultimate best interests of the Tool. Remember that Parson was prepared to risk visiting the operations room while banned from the sight of Stanley, because he knew he needed to place orders.

That isn't 100% free will, however it may be as close to it as people in the real world get, who have a bank manager or are married, and so on. I mean, no-one really can do anything they want, we all operate under different kinds of constraints.

[raphfrk]

Parson can probably do what he likes providing he believes that it serves the ultimate best interests of the Tool.

Tie him up and gag him, as he is his own worst enemy? Ofc, he can "end [Parson] with a thought".

[Moechi_Vill]

Parson can probably do what he likes providing he believes that it serves the ultimate best interests of the Tool. Remember that Parson was prepared to risk visiting the operations room while banned from the sight of Stanley, because he knew he needed to place orders.

That isn't 100% free will, however it may be as close to it as people in the real world get, who have a bank manager or are married, and so on. I mean, no-one really can do anything they want, we all operate under different kinds of constraints.

People in this world are free to get fired and have their children starve, that is the oldest freedom since 'by the sweat of your labor shall you eat your bread'.

Of course I see your point, perhaps freedom in Erfworld is represented by the freedom of power and the higher you get the more of it you have. But in traditional terms it seems mostly restricted to feelings and the ability to break alliance and turn traitor against as per one's loyalty ratings.
However Parson is also under spell compulsion so in a way he has less freedom than the cannon fodder.

[BillyJimBoBob]

And the bracer is not an artifact, it's only a magic item. Sizemore only said that it might qualify as an artifact, not that it was.

Sizemore thinks that it might be an artifact, and Charlie just calls it an artifact after learning what it can do. It is an artifact.

You assume they know about Wanda already. They won't at first.

That's not really relevant to the discussion. Casters are known to be potent and expensive units, and we've twice seen enemies call for their troops to engage casters. If Wanda is spotted by a Warlord, they are going to direct forces against her. It won't matter in the slightest if they know that she is a croakamancer, or has the 'Pliers, or can decryt units. It will just happen because that's how targets are prioritized.

[eminence_grise]

Actually I had noticed and remarked on the fact Janis and Co. seemed to be waiting. In addition to a predictimancer Janis could have been watching the events at GK with the help of an Eyemancer.

Oops, obviously I missed your comment. Sorry, but you know how it can be with these billion-post threads.

[fendrin]

Sizemore thinks that it might be an artifact, and Charlie just calls it an artifact after learning what it can do. It is an artifact.

In erf terms, 'artifact' vs. 'magic item' is a matter of origin, not power.

The bracer (and glasses & sword, too) was made by a spell, so technically is neither a magic item nor an artifact. It is, presumably, something new.

[BLANDCorporatio]

That's not really relevant to the discussion. Casters are known to be potent and expensive units, and we've twice seen enemies call for their troops to engage casters. If Wanda is spotted by a Warlord, they are going to direct forces against her. It won't matter in the slightest if they know that she is a croakamancer, or has the 'Pliers, or can decryt units. It will just happen because that's how targets are prioritized.

Which has so far proven very unsuccesful against a guarded but clearly visible and looking for trouble Sizemore- twice. Parson may have been desperate to send Sizemore to the front on those occasions, but considering how well he fared it is amazing casters don't lead armies more often. Possible anti-cheese, that.

And that was when the caster not only was a visible target, but the opposing units were not, at that very moment, engaged and kept busy by GK troops.