Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground #XXVIII

[Amphetryon]

Pro tip: When you include a parenthetical aside of "no offense to [person]", you're acknowledging you're probably coming off as offensive. I'd prefer to have negative commentary about a particular build in these contests confined to judges' scores and rationales, thanks.

[Hunter Killer]

Fair enough. I apologize. It won't happen again.

[Jeriah]

How many judges did we have?

[Amphetryon]

How many judges did we have?

I think we had two more talk about it, but the only criteria for judging are access to the book (Frostburn, in this case), lack of a submitted entry, and willingness to take the time.

[Venger]

I made some mistakes regarding bjorn's meldshaping and old man winter's general operations in my original judgings (apologies to both chefs) and have posted an update in my original judging post. I wanted to make sure and do it before the other judges post so no one has to wait on my account.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I was going to try to re-create 'Ice Man' from Marvel fame, using Skate and Ice Wall to make his iconic travel methodology. However, he had absolutely no offensive punch worth a damn, I kept looking for ways to use ice as a weapon, or at least graft some kind of telekenetic thrust to launch ice with, but all for naught.

Incidentally, how can the Antipode take Pyrokeneticist when he doesn't meet the Chaotic alignment requirement?

[Piggy Knowles]

Incidentally, how can the Antipode take Pyrokeneticist when he doesn't meet the Chaotic alignment requirement?

Via the Ordered Chaos feat, from Fiendish Codex I.

[Hunter Killer]

I love that feat. The class combinations it opens up are amazing. The interpretation is questionable, because I think RAI it's just supposed to be just Abyssal Heritor feats, but I allow it to be all encompassing in my games.

[TroubleBrewing]

Wish I'd gotten my internets hooked up in time, but the cable guy didn't show up until yesterday...

My build wasn't quite finished, but what I had was an Azurin Druidic Avenger 1/Cobra Strike Monk 3/Warblade 2/Fist of Zuoken 4/Cryokineticist 10.

I was having real trouble justifying Cryo levels, even going so far as to include in the backstory that he was so ashamed of his poor level choices that he gave up adventuring and became a bartender, only using his abilities to keep drinks cold.

[Venger]

Wish I'd gotten my internets hooked up in time, but the cable guy didn't show up until yesterday...

My build wasn't quite finished, but what I had was an Azurin Druidic Avenger 1/Cobra Strike Monk 3/Warblade 2/Fist of Zuoken 4/Cryokineticist 10.

I was having real trouble justifying Cryo levels, even going so far as to include in the backstory that he was so ashamed of his poor level choices that he gave up adventuring and became a bartender, only using his abilities to keep drinks cold.

unfortunately, the source backs you up since "NPC cryokineticists...bring their unique control of cold to warm or even hot environments, charging dearly for their cold-generating [sic] powers."

so the game's telling you to be an ice chest too.

[dextercorvia]

Wish I'd gotten my internets hooked up in time, but the cable guy didn't show up until yesterday...

My build wasn't quite finished, but what I had was an Azurin Druidic Avenger 1/Cobra Strike Monk 3/Warblade 2/Fist of Zuoken 4/Cryokineticist 10.

I was having real trouble justifying Cryo levels, even going so far as to include in the backstory that he was so ashamed of his poor level choices that he gave up adventuring and became a bartender, only using his abilities to keep drinks cold.

Bartender was going to be in my fluff as well.

[BobVosh]

Awww, that kind of makes me want to make the guy from Outcast as cryokineticist. Just because of the scene on the airplane with the ice.

[Feytalist]

unfortunately, the source backs you up since "NPC cryokineticists...bring their unique control of cold to warm or even hot environments, charging dearly for their cold-generating [sic] powers."

so the game's telling you to be an ice chest too.

This made me giggle.

I'm already looking forward to the next challenge.

[Venger]

This made me giggle.

I'm already looking forward to the next challenge.

I'm glad it did :D

me too, can't wait to see what it is.

[gbprime]

Flu recovered from, brain cells back online, and (more importantly to the lurkers on this board) judging completed. Scores and analysis as follows:

Old Man Winter - 14.0

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Originality - 3.5 - Wilder or Ardent to qualify, no surprises there. I do like the giant theme though. (+0.5)

Power - 4.0 - There are few things the Cryokineticist lends itself to, but grappling is one of them. Huge size, maximized grapple, and energy damage make the best of a bad situation (+0.5). The Power Resistance and Dispel options are good additions as well. (+0.5)

Elegance - 3.75 - A ten level class followed by a ten level prestige class gets points for simplicity (+0.5), and the backstory ties everything together smoothly (+0.25).

Use of SI - 2.75 - All ten levels of the prestige class is expected, but it comes online a bit late (-0.5). Of the three required skills, Concentration has maximum ranks by level 20 (+0.25), Knowledge (psi) gets some love, but Craft (Alchemy) stays at the bare minimum (-0.25). You make good use of both Frozen Fist and Greater Weapon Afrost, which I consider kind of baseline for this category, so I'll give a bonus (+0.25) for having a high CHA to work the Bone Chill capstone power.

Calipso - 10.75

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Originality - 4.0 - Not every day you see someone work in a +4 Level Adjustment, and the theme fits well (+1.0). Wilder is one of the expected entries though, so no adjustment there.

Power - 2.0 - A ranged attack build with a Tiny bow... you're basically doing energy damage and that's it (-1.0). Yes, you have the pixie invisibility, resistances, and powers going for you (+0.5), but that also means you can't start playing the build before level 5 and you're terminally weak when doing so (-0.5).

Elegance - 2.0 - Why does someone with Ranged Touch attacks need to spend 3 feats to upgrade their shooting to be a Ranged Touch Attack (-0.5)? And for that matter, why spend one of your 2nd level psi powers on Concealment when you have Improved Invisibility at will (-0.5)?

Use of SI - 2.75 - other than the reference to a Jack Frost motif, I can't see too much reason to take Cryokineticist. (But in this Iron Chef, I'm not deducting for that. Go figure.) All ten levels of the prestige class is expected, but it comes online a bit late (-0.5). You maximize the concentration skill (+0.25), apply a few extra ranks to Knowledge (Psi), and neglect Craft (Alchemy) (-0.25). You utilize Bolt of Cold and the weapon enhancements well, and I'm considering that kind of baseline for the Special Ingredient, so putting some extra love onto Bone Chill (Ability focus, high CHA stat) is worth a bonus (+0.5). However, since this character can fly, Cold Walk is a total waste (-0.25).

The Antipode - 12.75

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Originality - 3.5 - Fire and ice, nice trick (+0.25), would have been worth more if you were the only one who did it. Harmonious Knight is also unexpected on any build that doesn't require bardly goodness (+0.25).

Power - 3.75 - Frozen Fist plus Hand Afire plus Greater Weapon Afrost is an interesting mix (+0.5), and you're throwing 6d6 fire damage touch attacks at will, making you a mini-warlock (+0.25).

Elegance - 2.75 - You take two devotion feats, but stop just short of taking Turn Undead as a Paladin to power them (-0.25). The build also seems to derive more power from Pyrokineticist than it does from the special ingredient (-0.25), but it blends the two nicely in concept (+0.25).

Use of SI - 2.75 - All ten levels of the special ingredient is expected, so that's a mild hit (-0.25). While the skill synergy between your two prestige classes is beautiful (+0.25), you neglect to maximize any of the prerequisite skills and once you qualify for the PrCs you never take another rank in Knowledge (Psi) (-0.25) or Craft (Alchemy) (-0.25) again. You utilize Frozen Fist and Greater Weapon Afrost well, so that's baseline for UoSI as far as I'm concerned, and I'll give a bonus for finding something excellent to do with Frostfell Creature Insight (all that fire damage) (+0.25).

SGACSPD - 10.75

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Originality - 3.25 - Ardent to qualify, expected. Dungeoncrasher... not so expected (+0.25).

Power - 4.0 - Dungeoncrasher (+0.5) that can create walls (+0.5). Awesome.

Elegance - 1.25 - As a Dragonborn fighter with a 14 INT, you get 4 skill points per level, but Concentration is not a class skill for fighters, so as presented, your skill point expenditures (and thus your qualifying for Cryokineticist) are illegal (-2.0). Skill with making Ice sculptures is a classy touch, though. (+0.25)

Use of SI - 2.25 - All ten levels of the prestige class is expected, so no bonus or penalty there. You acquire the concentration skill illegally (penalty in previous category) and then fail to take another rank in it once qualified for the PrC (-0.25). Likewise you take the minimum ranks in Knowledge (Psi) and Craft (Alchemy) and do not develop them further (-0.5). You utilize
Greater Weapon Afrost and the Wall of Ice powers (and I'm giving good use of two powers as a baseline in judging this round), but the rest are not particularly developed in the build and thus warrants no bonus or penalty.

Bjorn Doragoniru - 12.0

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Originality - 4.0 - Fire and ice, nice trick (+0.25), would have been worth more if you were the only one who did it. Ardent again, no bonus there. But an incarnum powered build, that's a pleasant surprise (+0.5). Extra bonus for making me discover the existance of the Soul Manifester PrC (+0.25).

Power - 3.75 - Bonus for blending both Psi and Incarnum to a high power level (+0.5) and being able to react to various immunities and resistances is important for a blaster type (+0.25)

Elegance - 2.5 - This build has good flow for a psi/incarnum mystic theurge (+0.5), right up until you interrrupt it for the Special ingredient (-0.5). The backstory likewise just kind of falls apart at that point (I love fire, fire, fire, fire, so I think I'll take a cold PrC now!), like he got tired of being awesome at what he does and decided to experiment with sucking at it instead (-0.5). Pyrokineticist would have been a great fit, but Cryo... is just a roleplaying facepalm.

Use of SI - 1.75 - All ten levels of the prestige class is expected, so penalty for only taking five (-0.5). Cryokineticist prerequisite skills are given some love after you qualify, and one of them (Concentration) is maxxed out (+0.25). But what in the bloody heck are you doing taking levels in Cryokineticist??? A 10th level in Soul Manifester followed by 4 more Ardent levels (or some other Psi PrC) would have been FAR more powerful. Penalty there (-1.0). You maybe get a little use out of Bolt of Cold and Frostfell Creature insight, maybe, so I'll be kind and not penalize you further.

And at the risk of giving my Honorable Mention nod to the build I scored the highest, I have to give it to Old Man Winter because his back story is just excellent.

[Gotterdammerung]

So far

Antipode= 55.5
Old Man Winter= 51.75
Mr. Acronym= 50
Bjorn= 49.50
Calipso= 42

[Venger]

So far

Antipode= 55.5
Old Man Winter= 51.75
Mr. Acronym= 50
Bjorn= 49.50
Calipso= 42

just to make sure, you're using my updated judgings, right? I wouldn't want bjorn and old man winter to be shortchanged any points on my account.

[Thurbane]

Cool. So how many judgings are left to come in?

[TravelLog]

just to make sure, you're using my updated judgings, right? I wouldn't want bjorn and old man winter to be shortchanged any points on my account.

My judgings were also updated the day after I posted.

[Gotterdammerung]

I added them all up just before I posted, so any changes should be included. But feel free to double check me.

[Jeriah]

Double checked you. Your totals are correct based on what is posted now.

[Venger]

I added them all up just before I posted, so any changes should be included. But feel free to double check me.

great, thank you

[Gotterdammerung]

Cool. So how many judgings are left to come in?

I think that was everybody who said they were going to judge. But we still have 8 days. And as far as I understand it, anybody can just show up and judge as long as they aren't a contestant and as long as they have the Secret Ingredient source book. So maybe, hopefully, we might get another judge to pop in.

[TravelLog]

Can I recommend Knight of the Sacred Seal for a future contest? I know it's five levels, but there's built in room for customization, and lot's of interesting stuff it can be used for.

Plus everyone is bone-tired from Cryo.

[Gotterdammerung]

Can I recommend Knight of the Sacred Seal for a future contest? I know it's five levels, but there's built in room for customization, and lot's of interesting stuff it can be used for.

Plus everyone is bone-tired from Cryo.

When you are ready to be evil again you can do Great Rift Skyguard.

Edit: or ooo...ooo! CAVELORD! that is an aweful one muhauahua!

[Venger]

When you are ready to be evil again you can do Great Rift Skyguard.

Edit: or ooo...ooo! CAVELORD! that is an aweful one muhauahua!

I kind of like cavelord. have there been any of the old faerun classes in an IC yet?

"more meat to it" could mean fleshwarper, which would be cool with me, but it's a little more powerful than the norm on these. OTOH, it is really difficult to qualify for (assuming amph doesn't just say that we need 4 ranks in heal as intended instead of 10) but I still think it's acoltye of the skin.

[Feytalist]

I'm excited about Acolyte of the Skin as well.

A setting-based class might be a bit restrictive, especially as far as backstory is concerned. That and not everyone might have the relevant handbook. But if it ever comes up in the future, I'd want to see Gnome Artificer, from Magic of Faerun. Such a useless class, but with such a huge coolness factor

[Jeriah]

Second the Gnome Artificer.

[Amphetryon]

I think that was everybody who said they were going to judge. But we still have 8 days. And as far as I understand it, anybody can just show up and judge as long as they aren't a contestant and as long as they have the Secret Ingredient source book. So maybe, hopefully, we might get another judge to pop in.

I have no problem calling the contest early (thanks to a bunch of super-quick judges!), but only if the contestants are okay with it AND there are no more interested judges. How would folks feel about shutting this one down cold 36 hours from this post? If that's not enough time for any remaining prospective judges, please speak up.

[OMG PONIES]

I know I rumbled about judging, but that won't be necessary. Please, let's put this wretched ingredient behind us and go onto the next wretched ingredient.