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2010-08-13, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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2010-08-13, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Upstate NY
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
I personally don't own any super heavies, but I do know there will be a baneblade and two of the "smaller" titans, one chaos one imperial. Plus the big Appoclypse Ork smashie thing.
So there should be a decent amount of smashie smash big things.
Right now its more of no one has done a really stupid big game, so lets try it. Depending on how it goes we might or might not do it again, I am up for trying.I play:
RPG: Pathfinder; D&D 3.X, 4; L5R; World of Darkness; Exalted, and many more.
Warhammer Fantasy: Greenskins and Bretonnia
Warmachine: Cygnar and Trollblood
Malifaux: Rasputina (Arcanists)
Warhammer 40k: Tau and Necron.
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2010-08-13, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Here.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
I feel I should point out that big 40k apocalypse games usually take a day to play, so prepare yourself in advance! Organisation is key!
But it is good fun!
RegardsCheck out the battle of the beacon, it was a massive 40k apocalypse game involving my space marine chapter!
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2010-08-13, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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- Northern IL
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Also, be prepared for the reality that you will lose tons of models, and it's always a possibility that you can be tabled in a turn or two. People tend to get really worked up over Apocalypse because they're excited about fielding these super armies and cool formations. Unfortunately everyone else is fielding super armies with cool formations, and with Destroyer weapons on the board too, things tend to die really quickly.
I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but be prepared! Just as you may kick lots of ass in an Apocalypse game, it's very easy to get ass-kicked in return.
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2010-08-13, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Here.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Yeah, I agree with that. When I was organising the battle of the beacon game, everyone was excited over the awsomeness of their stuff, with bio titans and huge mobs and super tactics, but when the imperials pulled out vortex grenade using assassians and missiles people where WTF???
Check out the battle of the beacon, it was a massive 40k apocalypse game involving my space marine chapter!
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2010-08-13, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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- Upstate NY
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Oh I just want to see that many minis at one place. It be fun.
I wish I had access to the Apoclypse book, but I do not own one, and until I swing by the store this weekend I can't look up or prepare a list (cause If I can can I want to take advantage of a formation special rules, etc.I play:
RPG: Pathfinder; D&D 3.X, 4; L5R; World of Darkness; Exalted, and many more.
Warhammer Fantasy: Greenskins and Bretonnia
Warmachine: Cygnar and Trollblood
Malifaux: Rasputina (Arcanists)
Warhammer 40k: Tau and Necron.
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2010-08-13, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Er, oops. I meant to say Termie Sarge.
No advice or opinions? Thanks guys.
As for the Apocalyse game, I don't really know what to tell you. Tanks tank tanks, and more than a few Troops choices since they'll basically be evaporating en masse.
Also, keep your distance from Titans and superheavies. I hear they go nuclear when they're finally taken down, and it can wipe out whole squads if they're within X inches of the blast.Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-08-13, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
So, did i not bring enough dakka in my previous listed army, or did my dice just hate me?
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2010-08-13, 08:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Das Kapital
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2010-08-14, 08:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Let's review.
SpoilerMaugan Ra - 195 Points
S6, AP5, Assault 4(5), Pinning, Rending.
Cool. I guess. And, as we know, high strength is useless if your opponent still gets a save. He can deny cover though, which is good though.
Dark Reaper Exarch with Fast Shot and Crack Shot - 77 Points.
Tempest Launcher (+20): S4, AP3, Heavy 2(3), Barrage.
Let's review; Barrage weapons cause Pinning. Check. Heavy 2/3 makes it Multiple Barrage. That will get way more hits than Assault 4/5. At AP3 and ignoring cover, it may as well be Rending to all but Terminators and Meganobz, and will guarantee that your opponent takes Pinning checks instead of needing to roll sixes for Rending.
Last, Barrage weapons don't need line of sight.
The only downside for this, compared to the Maugetar, is S4. Who cares? AP3. If you want to pop vehicles, you should be using something else. But the Maugetar is an Assault weap...*slap* Why are you Assaulting with a Ranged Hero?
Due to the Tempest Launcher being a Barrage weapon, you don't need LoS, and don't have to move, ever. Being a Heavy weapon shouldn't be an issue.
10 Wraithguard + Seer
Farseer
Banshees in Wave Serpent
Dire Avengers and Guardians
2 Wraithlords
First, you never said how many points you were playing, and you don't really say - specifically - what your opponent had. So I have no idea if you had enough firepower.
Individually, all the units are fine. However, the game doesn't work that way. It's not that you didn't have enough firepower. You just didn't have the right kind of firepower.
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2010-08-14, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
ahh sorry, it was 1750 points.
I bought Maugan Ra to test if his rending weapon would be usefull in stopping rhinoes, and to see if he could save my wraithguards from getting their butt kicked in melee combat.
Anyway, thanks, ill think a bit about what to do next, with the models i have.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2010-08-14, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- ^ Creds to Lord Raziere
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
You brought the 200pt model to see if he could stop the 35pt Transports and make sure the S5 T6 Sv3+ models don't lose their close combats too badly. Wraithguards are in danger of getting tarpitted by things with decent saves, rendering them incapable of using their guns, but actually losing a combat is something they struggle mightily to do. For the same amount of points, or nearly so, as Maugan Ra, you can pick up an entire squad of Dark Reapers. Maugan Ra, like most of the Phoenix Lords, I'm beginning to suspect, is one of the things that looks good on paper, but just isn't that good in practice.
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2010-08-14, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
You brought the 200pt model to see if he could stop the 35pt Transports and make sure the S5 T6 Sv3+ models don't lose their close combats too badly. Wraithguards are in danger of getting tarpitted by things with decent saves, rendering them incapable of using their guns, but actually losing a combat is something they struggle mightily to do. For the same amount of points, or nearly so, as Maugan Ra, you can pick up an entire squad of Dark Reapers. Maugan Ra, like most of the Phoenix Lords, I'm beginning to suspect, is one of the things that looks good on paper, but just isn't that good in practice.
The same unit was then killed itself in a singel round by my Banshee's and the Farseer.
Think it would be worth it to bring the Avatar instead?thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2010-08-14, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
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- ^ Creds to Lord Raziere
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2010-08-14, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
I would say try the avatar, but if you do you may wish to try larger blocks of guardians since they benefit tremendously from being fearless (not that avengers do not there is just less of them to take advantage of fearless so are worse tarpits and worse cover saves)
Check out my horrible homebrews
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2010-08-14, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
When a Land Raider cruises up 18" from your Wraithguard, you take the move and then Wraithcannon the crap out of it. Wraithcannons were designed to beat the crap out of Land Raiders and Monoliths.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2010-08-14, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Would people be irked if I counted a handfull of Catachan jungle fighters as Inquisitorial Stormtroopers? I mean, they are pretty hardcore. I modelled three of them last night for various units, including one carrying a Sentinel's autocannon to represent a Heavy Weapon Autocannon Team, and they came out fairly awesome. I'll post pics in the 40K Modelling thread once I get more of them done later.
I also downloaded the Witch Hunters Codex, and I didn't see anything in there about taking or being allies. I thought ya'll said they included the rules for allies in the WH online codex... Hm. So could I not take a Witch Hunter Inquisitor as an Elite unit choice for my Daemonhunters without a physical copy of the WH Codex?
Just out of curiousity, of course. I haven't really looked through the WH gear and stuff, since I'm not sure if I can even use them. If it is possible to use them, would that be worth looking in to, or would ya'll suggest against it?Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-08-14, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Airstrip One
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Neither online codex included the Allies rules. When they put the codexes up the WH codex included the rules for Inducted IG and Allied SM, which DH lacked, but they've since removed that section from the WH book as well.
I would be careful about doing so, as without a copy of the rule to lean on, an opponent may not accept you doing so. I'd let you do so, since I have my own copy of the WH 'dex and am familiar with that rule, but if I wasn't familiar with it I'd be rather sceptical about someone using a rule he couldn't point to in his codex.
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2010-08-14, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Avengers are not tarpits?
Defend. Shimmershield. And Avengers can actually hold their own in combat for a while. Since they can actually deal damage back.
Maybe. ISTs have a 4+ save and carry Hellguns. Catachans they ain't. Considering that official Storm Trooper models already exist and they look nothing like Catachans...
Your other option (if you're me), is to heavily convert Space Marine Scouts, who also have a 4+ save.
I'd probably say no. Catachans do not reflect ISTs. Some people are a lot more lenient than me.
I also downloaded the Witch Hunters Codex, and I didn't see anything in there about taking or being allies. I thought ya'll said they included the rules for allies in the WH online codex...
So could I not take a Witch Hunter Inquisitor as an Elite unit choice for my Daemonhunters without a physical copy of the WH Codex?
If it is possible to use them, would that be worth looking in to, or would ya'll suggest against it?
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2010-08-14, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Alrighty. Yes, I remember the whole thing about needing the Codexes, but I remembered ya'll saying that the Witch Hunters Codex had something in it that the DH Codex did not. Guess my mind was playing tricks on me.
Oh well. It was really just curiousity. I was probably going to make a Witch Hunter model with a cool hat and whatnot, and use him as a spare model/Dark Heresy piece or something. I was just trying to see what sort of other uses I could get out of him...
Hm. Pity 'bout the Catechans. I could still do the Tau Firewarrior conversion thing, but while an awesome idea, I can see that going over worse than Catachans with most people.Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-08-14, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
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2010-08-14, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Yes, but they also have the funky feet and hands. Granted, it could be assumed the armor has been tweaked for the Stormies' feet and hands to fit in and use the armor... But some people still might raise a hissy fit over it.
Oh! On the plus side, I successfully made a plasma gun by combining a plasma pistol and las gun earlier. A little bit of knife work, and it came out looking awesome! I've got two more plasma pistols to work with, so that gives me 3 spare plasma guns to play with total. Should come in handy...Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-08-14, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Oh. That's not how you 'do it'. I thought you were cannibalizing the box. I've pretty much stolen this guy's idea for Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, except I'm using Space Marine Scouts as the base, and using them as Marine Scouts, so I can give them Shotguns and Bolters and the like.
I'll probably all give them Telion-Style Bolters, nobody should have a problem with them being pretty much whatever-I've-paid-points for. Except for Combat Blades. Which I'm not really a fan of on Scouts.
Anyway, everyone, I'm still writing Game 3. It's the most exciting because I've changed the list after two games now that I know what works (lots of Knights) and what doesn't (Dreadnoughts). Because that's what you do when you're play-testing.
Then, there's a bonus Game 4. Which was actually the shortest of the night. And I can write in a few sentences.
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2010-08-14, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Well, I'm not just making Fire Warriors and saying "They're Stormies!" I would give 'em human heads, switch some of their pulse rifles for (modified) lasguns, decorate them in purity seals, and otherwise try to at least show they're humans using Tau technology. But, fluff wise, most people would call shenannigans and whatnot, so its probably a waste of time and models in the long run.
Hm. Maybe I can plasticard/greenstuff some carapace armor onto a few Catachans. I only really need 8 stormtroopers - I was going to give the sarges power armor, and just use a pair of spare Space Marines I have. It would probably look better than the Tau conversion. But, it still may not be good enough...
I might as well just shelf my Daemonhunter army for the time being. Unless I can get a job when I get back to college, there's no way I'll make any progress with it for awhile...Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-08-14, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
You did say something about the hands and feet being 'off'. If you use Cadian legs and arms then there's no problem. Nobody should call shenanigans on the fluff. There are Human Tau Auxiliaries, so, we know that Humans can learn use Tau tech if given the chance. And, second, they're the Inquisition. You can give them anything they want.
Under the Imperial Guard Codex, a 'Hellgun' is a really, really funky laser. Model whatever you want that isn't a lasgun. Or modify/knife-attack a lasgun and make it cool if you want to be true-to-source.
Under Daemonhunters, there isn't much functionally different between a Hellgun and a Boltgun. Model your models with Boltguns. If anybody complains, punch them in the head.
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2010-08-14, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Well, I don't really have any spare legs to use. Though I could probably greenstuff some boots, if I can find the patience. (That stuff is the devil...) I have enough spare arms though, I think.
The Hellgun should be easy enough to model. Put some spare bits on it, maybe hook a power line up to a backpack...
Hm. I have a few spare bolters. I could probably use those for some variety in the models, and count them as Hellguns. It'd save a butt-ton of time, that's for sure.Anemoia: Nostalgia for a time you've never known.
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2010-08-15, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- A Fine Shanty Town
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
What about a staff topped with the winged gem thing from the Assault Terminator box? It's still got wings and fits with my skull-less chaplain approach, so it's even sticking with a theme I suppose?
Although tbh I don't see why you couldn't just make a Chaplain be a Marine Commander with a power sword, iron halo, jump pack and bolt pistol. It's not like there'd be any difference in the end ...*Splendid Goatatar by that cool kid Serpentine
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world"
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2010-08-15, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- USA
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
Not to interrupt your conversation, but... thoughts on playing 40k over play-by-post? I have access to a friend's rulebook and Tau Codex (judging from my research, looks like my favorite army), but have no disposable income (at least not until next summer) but still want to play. Some of those models are ex-pens-ive.
Also, my FLGS isn't very friendly... last I checked, one of my other friends was forced to write his name on a wall (or was it a bone? maybe it was both) for losing a Magic tournament there.
EDIT: Yes, I think it is a 5e rulebook.Last edited by Siosilvar; 2010-08-15 at 07:17 PM.
ze/zir | she/her
Omnia Vincit Amor
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2010-08-15, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
I...wouldn't recommend that idea, without some out-of-site help. Uhm. In my army (Daemons), and in most others, people will regularly be rolling 20+ dice at once. All I can say is I DO NOT want to use the dice roller on GitP for that. If you have a dice roller which is better for the situation, it might be worth a try.
But the real killer is measurement. Are you going to draw a map, then upload it? Scale becomes an issue. As do blast weapons, etc.
Agreed that the models are truly expensive. If you really do want to play, and you don't feel aesthetics are an issue, you may want to try playing with armies of proxies. Yes, it's dumb to field a squad of bottlecaps, and it raises it's own set of problems, (LOS mainly) but it's better than not playing.
If that doesn't appeal, you'll probably have to wait until the summer, or until you can scrounge up a nice deal. Friends who are sick of playing the game are a good source of cheap armies. Though beware of bad paint jobs, among other things.Last edited by Incomp; 2010-08-15 at 09:16 PM.
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2010-08-15, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- USA
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.
[rollv] works well enough. If not... Invisible Castle saves dice by the "character", type in "Sio's Tau Army [40k]" or something like that and keep it consistent to prevent cheating.
Measurement? 10 pixels per inch. 25mm bases are 10 pixels wide, 40mm bases are 16 pixels... A Rhino is 46 by 30 pixels (roughly). Tabletop is 480 by 600 pixels.
Blasts are 3" and 5" diameter.
Main problem I can see is working out line of sight, which is done easily enough if you assign each piece of terrain a height or just "this blocks view of everything behind it".
EDIT: And if anybody's willing to take me up on the PbP40k offer, I built my first two army lists today. 750 and 1000, probably post them tomorrow for critique.Last edited by Siosilvar; 2010-08-15 at 10:27 PM.
ze/zir | she/her
Omnia Vincit Amor