Erfworld 77, page 71

[Bongos]

I'm waiting for the next strip to see who gets croaked by the dwagons..
Archons, Jilian, Ansom, Vinnie, someone has GOT to get it besides those gwiffons...

Vengeance for Temprary Manpower and Leeroy Jenkins.

I mean Parson can still target whoever he wants with the dragons left, somewhere around 10 give or take....

and then there is always next turn....B dwagons.

[Girl Wonder]

You're an editor, no? Layman's question: Do you think Rob and Jamie made any changes for presentation in serial form? I would have thought the serial format always made you "leave them wanting more" while a comic book form does not necessarily have to end every page with a cliffhanger or punchline.

Eep! I must have said that somewhere, or you're psychic. Yes, I am an editor... and for a major American media corporation, no less!

My opinion, following the reread, is that yes, they have made changes to accomodate the format which, in general, can be summed up as follows...

In-strip plotting and pacing is very much done with the serial nature in mind.

Cross-strip 'big arc' pacing is not, at all, sometimes at the detriment of the strip-to-strip experience, so it's a bit of a hybrid.

Look at how often an individual strip finishes with either a splash page, a big reaction shot, or a revelation. It is far more often that what would occur in most graphic novels. If you printed the Erfworld strips to date, and bound them up in a nifty, glossy cover, I don't think you would fool any serious readers that it had never been published in strip format. Each page would be too encapsulated to escape noticing that, though it IS clear Rob and Jamie are keeping their options open on one day nicely binding it in a book, one strip per page (for we never get any 'double-sized' strips, or extra-big splash panels that would break the format).

That said, given my experimental reread from last night, the mega-pacing for the whole story seems to have been done looking at the (hopefully completed) work as a whole, one day, given how nicely it paces read all at once, and how much frustration the pacing sometimes causes in these forums at the leading edge of its serially-created nature.

So I guess Rob and Jamie get the best and worst of both worlds. They get to have regular zingers/splash panels/little dramatic cliffhangers AND get to have a work, at the end, that will be eminently readable (probably even more so) once it is compiled into a coffee-table book, more readable than a lot of other webcomics out there. On the other hand, they'll sometimes frustrate a devoted audience who is reading it 'fresh from the drawing boards' and end up with a coffee-table book that won't be indistinguishable from other graphic novels, it will clearly be a repackaged strip book, of sorts, albeit a highly sophisticated and readable one.

So is their glass half-full or half-empty? You'd have to ask them, but I'd err on the side of full, seeing as they're producing a nifty webcomic and I'm composing mindless little blurbs that pop up on your screen right after you hear 'You've Got Mail!'

[ag30476]

Eep! I must have said that somewhere, or you're psychic. Yes, I am an editor... and for a major American media corporation, no less!

Thanks for the info!

Wait...psychic senses activated...your'e...you're down south...state begins with V....you post about once every other day...you joined some sort of online community in May..the 14th...

[teratorn]

So I guess Rob and Jamie get the best and worst of both worlds. They get to have regular zingers/splash panels/little dramatic cliffhangers AND get to have a work, at the end, that will be eminently readable (probably even more so) once it is compiled into a coffee-table book, more readable than a lot of other webcomics out there.

I had noticed that, the strip flows nicely when reading it from the start, but I'm starting to feel I need closure. Unless Wanda gets full control of Jillian like if she were a puppet, it seems Ansom will save some siege. This means a bunch of strips have yet to come. Fight in the tunnels, the army of crap golems, siege against the walls, entering the city, rushing to the citadel, Parson last stand in the tower or something. Worst of all, Jill and Ansom will be making out all the time. We are talking about many tens of pages.

The waiting would be ok were it not for this impeding doom over Parson's and Wanda's heads. They'll lose, while evening the odds a little, until nearly the end. Parson will collect a series of small "victories" but never decisive. Here, with a bit of luck, he could have defeated the invading army. It's going to be like this, frustrating for those of us on Parson's side, until the end. It will be ok when it's over, but ...

Wait...psychic senses activated...your'e...you're down south...state begins with V....you post about once every other day...you joined some sort of online community in May..the 14th...

You on the other hand are somehow protected against our psychic powers, I can only see that you've join May 27th.

[Arkenputtyknife]

I had to sit on my hands for a long time before responding to this. Hopefully my reply is sufficiently polite and reasoned.

So new = good?

No, new = necessary. A work of art (in any medium) that doesn't break new ground, that doesn't break any rules, that doesn't go somewhere that hasn't been explored before, isn't worth bothering with. But whether it's good can only be decided afterwards. More often than not, the result is bunk, and the work is thrown in the trashcan of history to be forgotten. But enough makes the grade for art to progress.

A work of art that does attempt something new will be bunk 90% or more of the time, but at least some of the time, something worthwhile will emerge. It's better than being bunk 100% of the time, which is what you get if you slavishly follow the tropes and always adhere to expectations.

Incidentally, it's amusing that Krellen tells me not to be “that man”. I'm not “that man”. “That man” is made of straw. Nothing in the post that Krellen was replying to claimed that new = good.

There is a reason there are certain expectations in stories - it's because the expectations work, and have been proven over millennia to make for engaging, entertaining, and fascinating stories. And when you break from these expectations, you jar the senses of your audience, and will more often than not lose their interest, because you've disconnected yourself from their communal experience. Your story no longer resonates with them, and gets lost in the chaos - and that means the death of your story.

The funny thing is that my experience is the exact opposite. The works that I most enjoy are the ones that do break my expectations, that do jar my senses; the ones that make me ask, “What the boop is going on here? What is this nutcase trying to do to me?” It's the same in movies, literature, music… name the art form of your choice.

Edit: History abounds with examples from the world of music (sorry, but I know a lot more about music than literature, so it's easier for me to argue in those terms). Beethoven in particular didn't achieve his position as one of the most important figures in the development of modern music by sticking to the laws laid down by history; he did new things. He made a point of breaking the rules. And in the end, his music endured, because it was both new and good. If you dig through the history of music, you'll find it littered with the forgotten corpses of composers whose music was good but not new, and with those of composers whose music was new but not good.

It may be that this is something that Krellen (and those who think like him) and I will never agree upon. We want different things out of the story. Krellen wants his expectations met; I want my expectations to be shattered. It seems that I like Erfworld, at least in part, precisely because it's doing things that Krellen finds unsatisfactory.

One central theme in virtually every successful story ever told is overcoming adversity. But Ansom has failed to do this, because he's never faced adversity.

Tension and resolution. True enough so far, which is probably why Ansom isn't the protagonist. If I'm understanding Krellen properly, the complaint here is that so much of the story recently has been focused on Ansom that it's no longer about Parson and company. Yet it seems to me that it's missing the important point, which is that it's the effect that these events are having on Parson that matters. Parson is the one who's having to face and overcome adversity, and I really don't think it's reasonable to judge the story at this point just because his best efforts so far have fallen short of the mark.

In other words, the phat lady hasn't sungh yet, and we shouldn't be acting as if she has.

Another expectation I see being broken is the idea that The Battle for Gobwin Knob is about the battle for Gobwin Knob. A great many of the complaints I've read have centered around the amount of time being taken for this battle to reach conclusion. Well, wrap your little heads around this: I couldn't care less if the battle for Gobwin Knob is never resolved, because it's not what the story is about, at least as far as I'm concerned. It's a backdrop against which the real action—the interaction between the primary characters—is taking place.

Does anyone cheer when the 20-point favourite leaps into the lead, or do they cheer when the underdog unexpectedly pulls to the fore?

I think we all know the answer to that one.

Mm. And the one critical word in it is “unexpectedly”.

[teratorn]

No, new = necessary. A work of art (in any medium) that doesn't break new ground, that doesn't break any rules, that doesn't go somewhere that hasn't been explored before, isn't worth bothering with.

Wow, all that certitude. Those sentences are pretty vague and imply that a work of "art" can only be of value when seen against a set of historical records. I don't understand it, do you mean there is no implicit value in a given work unless it is compared with something else? If I like a book, but it tackles the same ground as previous books, are you saying it's worthless, despite the fact that the author shows talent and writes an interesting story?

Novelty is overrated. In Greek tragedies people knew most of the story, and the medium was quite formal. Yet, they are great work, and clearly "worth bothering." Many of those "breaking the rules" works you talk are boring once the novelty ends, Gilgamesh is still a great story even after thousands of years.

But all this talk is a bit pretentious. Maybe Jamie and Rob plan to make an artistic revolution in the graphic novel business but I'm here more for the entertainment value of the thing.

[Zelig the Liar]

Yeah, I'm not really down with all the artistic criticism, but I do know what amuses me. For instance, I would not want to be quoted saying that Independence Day was a good movie. I actually made some fun of it when it came out, saying that I'd already seen it all before except it had been called the Star Wars Trilogy the first time. However, I can't deny that it is an exciting and entertaining movie, despite some of the blatantly improbable events and the naked patriotic feelgood message. I just saw the tail end of it again the other night and found myself really enjoying it, despite still seeing the direct parallels to The Trilogy. So, nothing new there except the players and set, but the story was still fun. Sometimes I just go see movies or read books or watch shows just to be entertained, not necessarily challenged intellectually or artistically. Maybe that's a failing. An ex of mine once observed that I'm easily amused. I'll never know if she meant it as a complement or an insult.

[Justyn]

...I mean Parson can still target whoever he wants with the dragons left, somewhere around 10 give or take...

First of all: that should be whomever. You can replace "who/m/ever he wants" in that sentance with "him or her" and it would still be gramatically correct. Sorry for being a grammar nazi, but who/whom is one of those things that is like loose/lose, 'cept a bit less noticable because the words sound so similar. But gramatically, the difference is like using he/she where him/her should have been used.

Edit: Dragons? They're called Dwagons.


Anyway, I personally like the tension and plot twists; those are the reasons that One Piece is my favorite anime/manga series (the original japanese version: the majority of the english versions out are sub par... to put it lightly). I can wait for the next pages to come out, I don't want to, but I can.

I can honestly say that while there are ways the story could go that I would enjoy reading very much, and while I could be slightly disapointed that the story is not going in the way that I think would be the most interesting, I would not complain about it. After all: this is Rob's and Jamie's story, not mine.

[Zelig the Liar]

First of all: that should be whomever. You can replace "who/m/ever he wants" in that sentance with "him or her" and it would still be gramatically correct. Sorry for being a grammar nazi, but who/whom is one of those things that is like loose/lose, 'cept a bit less noticable because the words sound so similar. But gramatically, the difference is like using he/she where him/her should have been used.

Edit: Dragons? They're called Dwagons.


Anyway, I personally like the tension and plot twists; those are the reasons that One Piece is my favorite anime/manga series (the original japanese version: the majority of the english versions out are sub par... to put it lightly). I can wait for the next pages to come out, I don't want to, but I can.

I can honestly say that while there are ways the story could go that I would enjoy reading very much, and while I could be slightly disapointed that the story is not going in the way that I think would be the most interesting, I would not complain about it. After all: this is Rob's and Jamie's story, not mine.

Oooh! Oooh! I can play too! Bolded words are misspelled or incorrect case! :)

That's *tallies on fingers...* 7 unique instances! How many points is that?

Seriously guys, this is a really silly game because it just causes us to spend more time obsessing over finding imperfect spelling and grammar in each others' posts rather than debating the message.

Edit: Unless... unless... you were being so subtly ironic that I didn't detect it at first. Nitpicking such an obscure detail and then making so many obvious spelling/case errors in your own post. If so, bravo sir. Bravo.

[Bongos]

Just a bit of reflection about the spell, Sizemore conjectured that this kind of situation could possibly break the spell...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0070.html

I guess he was right. Maybe.

[Bongos]

Edit: Dragons? They're called Dwagons.

I spelled it right the other two times and gwiffons as well. Sorry you had to write 1/2 a post on the whole subject.

English is not my first language.

[Kish]

I Spelled it right the other two times and gwiffons as well. Sorry you had to write 1/2 a post on the whole subject.

English is not my first language.

You know, "dwagon" isn't really an English word anyway...

[Partywhipple]

I assume that Lord Hamster **SPOILER** is going to be sent ot the front line and CAPTURED. If I were Ansom I would definitely grab someone who had stats I couldn't see. Having Hamster be superpowered is too obvious. As is some super weapon of Tool winning the fight.

[Partywhipple]

Oh, and I didn't realize that they could move and attack during someone else's combat turn. The whole real time fighting during a turn which is turn based seems a bit non sensical to me...

[SteveMB]

Oh, and I didn't realize that they could move and attack during someone else's combat turn. The whole real time fighting during a turn which is turn based seems a bit non sensical to me...

Huh? It's been clearly established since the first real fight (not counting the one where the twoll and skellies got pwned without effectively defending themselves at all) that both sides get to move and attack within the tactical combat.

Ansom being able to use his remaining move to arrive at the wounded-dwagon hex and join combat there (apparently after the first rounds, with the Archons buzzwording some dwagons and then Jillian boom-headshotting Leeroy while the dwagons and gwiffons traded attacks above) didn't square with some people's assumptions, but I don't see any actual contradiction to what has been canonically established about how Erfworld works.

[Vreejack]

And thanks for the spoilers

Personally I cannot see why you bothered. Except for the most glaringly obvious stuff no one has been able to predict very much in this story. Perhaps the "dwagons will be over water" is an exception, but I thought that was pretty obvious given that Parson had mentioned it in his klog.

I think we have a lot of pun trying to spin reasonable possibilities and then critiquing each other's ideas. If you are afraid of having something "spoiled" then why are you even in this thread?

[Vreejack]

I'm waiting for the next strip to see who gets croaked by the dwagons..
Archons, Jilian, Ansom, Vinnie, someone has GOT to get it besides those gwiffons...

Vengeance for Temprary Manpower and Leeroy Jenkins.

I mean Parson can still target whoever he wants with the dragons left, somewhere around 10 give or take....

and then there is always next turn....B dwagons.

It's a good point. Parson should realize that—barring some trick up his sleeve—the dwagons are going to be wiped out. He needs to concentrate on croaking someone, anyone, in order to improve his odds next turn, which seem too close to even for my taste. Better to have overwhelming odds to reduce your casualties; he probably cannot get that but every bit helps. If he can take out Jillian then great. Ansom would be a super bonus, but he probably only has one more round to act in before they all bite the dust.

[Vreejack]

Unless... unless... you were being so subtly ironic that I didn't detect it at first. Nitpicking such an obscure detail and then making so many obvious spelling/case errors in your own post. If so, bravo sir. Bravo.

Somehow I doubt it. When you are feigning incompetence you should make it clear that you are only pretending.

Edit: fixed speling errers.

[Vreejack]

The handsome prince rescues the princess just in the nick of time. How delightfully original.

Except that given Jillian's proclivities I doubt they will ever be happy together. After a while Jillian will go sneaking off back to Wanda for some excitement. Stay tuned.

[Girl Wonder]

Except that given Jillian's proclivities I doubt they will ever be happy together. After a while Jillian will go sneaking off back to Wanda for some excitement. Stay tuned.

Bleah, I hope not. Jillian seems to feel like she contributes something to a relationship with Ansom, the need to 'save' him, look out for him, keep him from doing dumb things (as she sees them), and ironically, Ansom feels that he's the one saving -her- from herself. Better still, they're both right. I can see that being a -very- healthy type of relationship. As for needing Wanda for excitement, well, one of Ansom's weaknesses listed on the cast of characters page IS 'caution.' I can't see a man who dresses up in an Evel Knievel suit and is willing to jump through hoops of dwagonfire as totally boring. Also, he and Jillian's personalities sometimes strike sparks, speaking to an underlying level of intensity that could lead to something quite passionate. The one time we've seen Wanda and Jillian speaking in a natural setting, it was very girl-talk bff sort of fare. Any excitement for Jillian seemed to come from swallowing the physical and psychic abuse Wanda heaped on her, which is hardly healthy given the context in which it was presented.

Arguably, given Jillian's nature, Wanda is exactly the wrong thing for her. Just as Ansom loves Duty, Wanda loves Control, and Stanley loves Stanley, Jillian love Freedom. She said as much in her big speech to Ansom. Arguably, it's what she prizes more than anything. It seems likely she would have turned down a kingdom to keep it. I think for quite some time she knew this about herself, but hadn't quite accepted it. She KNEW she liked to be free, to wander and have no master (or mistress!), but hadn't accepted that that also means assuming a certain level of responsibility for oneself or her actions, the end result being a Jillian that, while certainly wild and untamed, was also a bit petulant and brattish, a little girl's freedom.

Feeling it's call, but fearing to embrace her nature entirely, perhaps Wanda's controlling hand gave her exactly what she thought she needed, a respite from scary, alluring freedom... a place where Jillian could be controlled, dominated, and not feel afraid of making bad choices, because she had no meaningful choices at all. Many submissive people are often very powerful and independent in public life, and view a relationship with a dominating person as a bit of a respite from having to always be responsible for everything.

So, Jillian found comfort from her insecurities, for a time, with Wanda, which Wanda was only too happy to provide because it served her interests and fed her own hunger to torture and interrogate, her 'hobbies.' Given her recent reaction to Parson's order to croak Jillian, however, it looks as if Jillian -might- have gotten inside of Wanda's head a bit, too. Clearly, the two have a level of repoire that can allow them to be friends, if Wanda can ever learn to respect Jillian and eschew her need to be the controlling element in any interaction. This is the sort of growth I hope we'll see in Wanda in the future, she -does- have a lot of growing that need to be done.

Anyway, Jillian had a primal desire to be 'free', but hadn't fully embraced it, and Wanda's manipulation provided a refuge. But, when push came to shove, and Jillian was forced to choose after Jaclyn shoved her into the crucible, Jillian 'grew up', in a way... she embraced her freedom-loving nature AND the attendant responsibility for making her own choices, flawed though they sometimes may be.

And she chose Ansom.

I would posit she doesn't need Wanda to dominate her any more. In fact, she would resent ANY one's attempts to do so (Wanda's especially, though Ansom will learn rather quickly that just because she loves him doesn't mean she's going to stop diving sword-first off gwiffons any time soon. Fortunately, Ansom has shown an ability to learn from his mistakes, so I don't forsee any long-lasting troubles, there.)

I really DO see a future for Jillian and Wanda, should they ever no longer be enemies on the battlefield, though this future is not the steamy girl-to-girl affair a lot of people seem to want. I can see them becoming friends... enough similarities (young women in positions of power and responsibility) to have things to talk about and enough differences (Wanda's calculated approach to life vs. Jillian's hack-first-ask-questions-later approach) for them to value each other's point of view. But again, this will depend on Wanda catching up to Jillian in terms of character growth. She's going to need to learn to respect and honestly -like- the new-and-improved Jillian, and deal with her as an equal all the time, not just when it suits Wanda. Their abusive relationship is dead, and good riddance to it. If Wanda can get past that, I forsee the potential for a long and enduring friendship.

[Jade_Tarem]

If Wanda can get past that, I forsee the potential for a long and enduring friendship.

Assuming Wanda is still alive 4 turns from now.

[ag30476]

Personally I cannot see why you bothered. Except for the most glaringly obvious stuff no one has been able to predict very much in this story. Perhaps the "dwagons will be over water" is an exception, but I thought that was pretty obvious given that Parson had mentioned it in his klog.

I think we have a lot of pun trying to spin reasonable possibilities and then critiquing each other's ideas. If you are afraid of having something "spoiled" then why are you even in this thread?

I'll stop asking people to spoiler. I don't do it for myself. Some people are bothered by non-spoiled predictions. But if my asking for spoilers is a bother in itself, I'm stopping.

[Girl Wonder]

I'll stop asking people to spoiler. I don't do it for myself. Some people are bothered by non-spoiled predictions. But if my asking for spoilers is a bother in itself, I'm stopping.

I'm with you on this, actually. While I think it's not something that needs to be jumped on every time, and while there's sometimes a really blurry line between what's a specific 'spoiler' and what's just general conjecture, I believe it's courteous to try to use tags when you can, and when you feel that your observation is specific enough to warrant it, but it's a self-policing thing.

That said, yes, I think people do assume a certain degree of risk of spoilerage by coming into the forum, just like they assume a risk of injury when whitewater rafting. But common courtesy suggests when whitewater rafting if you MUST carry a pile of nails and tacks with you, keep them in a nice, secure container, don't scatter them all over the bottom of the raft if you can help it

[SteveMB]

Arguably, given Jillian's nature, Wanda is exactly the wrong thing for her. Just as Ansom loves Duty, Wanda loves Control, and Stanley loves Stanley, Jillian love Freedom. She said as much in her big speech to Ansom. Arguably, it's what she prizes more than anything. It seems likely she would have turned down a kingdom to keep it. I think for quite some time she knew this about herself, but hadn't quite accepted it. She KNEW she liked to be free, to wander and have no master (or mistress!), but hadn't accepted that that also means assuming a certain level of responsibility for oneself or her actions, the end result being a Jillian that, while certainly wild and untamed, was also a bit petulant and brattish, a little girl's freedom.

Feeling it's call, but fearing to embrace her nature entirely, perhaps Wanda's controlling hand gave her exactly what she thought she needed, a respite from scary, alluring freedom... a place where Jillian could be controlled, dominated, and not feel afraid of making bad choices, because she had no meaningful choices at all. Many submissive people are often very powerful and independent in public life, and view a relationship with a dominating person as a bit of a respite from having to always be responsible for everything.

(emphasis added)

I think her revelation to Ansom about that ("I may not have wanted the kingdom he cost me, but it was mine.") is particularly significant. Before, she had kept her royal status secret, thus avoiding not only the responsibility of running a kingdom, but also the responsibility of standing behind that decision. (The usual motivation for keeping such a secret -- personal safety -- doesn't really seem to apply here. Jillian can take care of herself rather well, and isn't the type to worry much about that issue in any case.)

So, Jillian found comfort from her insecurities, for a time, with Wanda, which Wanda was only too happy to provide because it served her interests and fed her own hunger to torture and interrogate, her 'hobbies.' Given her recent reaction to Parson's order to croak Jillian, however, it looks as if Jillian -might- have gotten inside of Wanda's head a bit, too.

As I noted earlier, the only other plausible interpretation (Wanda needs Jillian alive for some pragmatic reason) doesn't ring true to me. If she were in that kind of Machiavellian mode, IMO she would have thought up some rationalization (ironically, doing exactly what her spell had forced on Jillian), not simply pleaded for Jillian's life.

Wanda's response when Jillian asks how she's getting along may offer a hint. While she may have had some practical reason for telling Jillian about the summoning, the overall tone of her comments is that of venting to a friend about What My Pointy-Haired Boss Dumped On Me Today. (And who else does Wanda have to talk to? While she does seem to have a bit of rapport with Sizemore, his personality is just too weak for him to hold up his end of a conversation with Wanda about anything other than mancer-neepery, in which Wanda isn't really very interested. I suspect that this is the main reason she is developing such a quick rapport with Parson, at least on a mutually-respecting colleagues level)

Clearly, the two have a level of repoire that can allow them to be friends, if Wanda can ever learn to respect Jillian and eschew her need to be the controlling element in any interaction. This is the sort of growth I hope we'll see in Wanda in the future, she -does- have a lot of growing that need to be done.

That would be an interesting development.

Edit: It occurs to me that Parson standing up to her -- explaining politely but firmly why he is rejecting her request, and going over her head to the Tool only after she persists, might help push her in that direction.

I would posit she doesn't need Wanda to dominate her any more. In fact, she would resent ANY one's attempts to do so (Wanda's especially, though Ansom will learn rather quickly that just because she loves him doesn't mean she's going to stop diving sword-first off gwiffons any time soon. Fortunately, Ansom has shown an ability to learn from his mistakes, so I don't forsee any long-lasting troubles, there.)

Ironically, one of the clearest examples of Ansom's ability to learn from mistakes is that, just before the Thinkagram arrived, he was reluctantly but honestly considering the evidence Jillian was betraying the Coalition.

I really DO see a future for Jillian and Wanda, should they ever no longer be enemies on the battlefield, though this future is not the steamy girl-to-girl affair a lot of people seem to want. I can see them becoming friends... enough similarities (young women in positions of power and responsibility) to have things to talk about and enough differences (Wanda's calculated approach to life vs. Jillian's hack-first-ask-questions-later approach) for them to value each other's point of view. But again, this will depend on Wanda catching up to Jillian in terms of character growth. She's going to need to learn to respect and honestly -like- the new-and-improved Jillian, and deal with her as an equal all the time, not just when it suits Wanda. Their abusive relationship is dead, and good riddance to it. If Wanda can get past that, I foresee the potential for a long and enduring friendship.

Possible, depending on what the situation is at the end of this chapter.

[Ozar]

Incidentally, I noticed that this is now the largest thread on the Erfworld forum.

That's quite the response.

[djharr]

People have been doing some throwing around of ideas and complaints,
scenarios and cross-scenarios, with much referral to Deus Ex Machina,
particularly from the standpoint that at this time, such an eventuality
is universally deplored a cop-out on the part of the authors.

I have looked through this thread and think that no one has presented
this idea in quite this form. Pardon if someone has already come up with
it before. That being said:

Spoiler

Show

It seems to me that we haven't seen a single use of the much-ballyhooed
mathamancer device. What if this device is one that works only in close
combat? This could very well be the eventuality that the plot is working
towards. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, in WWII, the one
thing that saved the US Navy was, ironically, the one thing that seemed to
be the worst disaster, ie the destruction of most of the battleship fleet at
Pearl Harbor. Maybe the destruction of the dwagons will force Parson out
of his safe haven in Gobwin Knob and out into the field, where he can give
the mathamancy device its head. I suspect that even having an unbeatable
warlord will not be enough to allow Gobwin Knob to achieve victory, since
Parson is limited to the number of places he can be at any time, and Ansom
has near unlimited forces, allowing him to attack from all directions at once, but it could well be the difference between victory and defeat.

Any way, it is a wild speculation, but I think it is at least as likely as half
a dozen scenarios already proposed in this thread.

Edit: I think it is silly how English requires you to supply silly little
words like "is", "and" and "but" to have your sentences make sense, but
I suppose it is better to adhere to the conventions of the locals, no matter
how rustic they may be.

David

[Wender]

I think the "internal fog of war" I mentioned upthread has just cleared somewhat: As of this page, Parson really is the supreme commander of the forces of Gobwin Knob. He, and only he, is calling the shots now. Wanda's tactical contribution has been mooted, but she's still there in an advisory capacity. For what is possibly the first time ever, Sizemore is there in an advisory capacity. And of course, Stanley is there, but he seems content to let Parson run things (and Parson seems to be getting good at following Wanda's advice about how to handle him).

Some other thoughts:

All the talk about the deus ex machina device made me realize that the writers have already subverted that technique: Parson was supposed to be a deus ex machina, the "perfect warlord" who would resolve a hopeless situation. While he's been shown to be less than godlike, he may still fulfill his role.

I believe that Parson is the main protagonist, but that the protagonists in the story are not grouped on one side or the other. Parson is still something of a third party, magically coerced to help GK. That's a pretty deep hole for a protagonist to climb out of, so it makes the resolution of the conflict he was summoned for, and the attitudes of its participants, rather important.

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For example, we now have a character on Ansom's side who knows Wanda very well, knows her need to control very well, and who has broken out of a controlling spell that Wanda has cast. She has the protection of powerful 'mancers who can break spells. If Parson impresses Ansom and Jillian enough as a rival strategist, and if they find out the terms under which he's employed at GK, that makes things a bit interesting, doesn't it? How badly would Parson be tempted to try to get out of his compulsory service? What would happen when the compulsion was broken? Granted, the spell on Parson is a whole different level of mojo than the spell on Jillian was, but the precedent is now there. As of her last chat with Wanda, Jillian might know enough to put two and two together. So might Wanda.

As for the combat, it occurs to me that all of the current combats could be modeled with an individual initiative system that allows for simultaneous actions. Manpower's dwagon attacked first (reach bonus?), then Ansom, then either Manpower or Jillian. (We'll never know!) That would also explain the panel on the previous page where we see one combat in which a dwagon gets the jump on a gwiffon while another gwiffon gets the jump on a dwagon.

It seems that Jillian's sword can be dynamically resized like an eyebook, which is quite a handy power to have, although Jillian spends one panel clearly wishing that she didn't have to reduce it to dagger size against Manpower's sword.

[SteveMB]

It seems that Jillian's sword can be dynamically resized like an eyebook, which is quite a handy power to have, although Jillian spends one panel clearly wishing that she didn't have to reduce it to dagger size against Manpower's sword.

Huh? I thought it was broken, or possibly stuck into the dwagon's lower jaw.

[Bongos]

Yeah, what's the deal with Jillian's sword?

It's nowhere to be seen when she lands on the gWiffon,
and it's not in her hand when being bit by the dWagon..

Then boom! there it is in her free hand, but looks small like a knife. In the next panel looks like she has croaked the dWagon with it and it has a long handle like her sword..

[multilis]

It is hard to say who is going to be in trouble next. Both sides are vulnerable, it is possible Arsom can't rejoin his grumps.

Combat may use up movement points. We have no idea who can return to the grumps.

Looking into future, it is possible grumps can't go into water square so a turn down the road, Team Stanley may have wounded units there.

Wanda likely has some long term plan that involves Jillian, perhaps involving Stanley getting replaced. Both are members of lost tribes.

Stanley's point about evil, was that others weren't really better than him. That suggests others such as Charlie, and factions under Arsom (who hate Jillian?) may pull betrayal. Perhaps a desire for pliers could motivate Charlie.

Victory conditions: perhaps he who has all 4 tools, wins the game.

Pliers attuned power: unknown. Pliers seem effective against undead. Perhaps pliers can undo magic and uncroaking is a form of magic. If so pliers may be more attuned to a math based leader such as Parsons.

Parson may lose 3 warlords this turn, be down to himself and 2 others. When Parson failed last time Stanley wanted to send him into field. It is possible Stanley will go into field to get pliers. It is possible Wanda will go into field as Stanley may blame her for Jillian, and she may wish chance to talk to Jillain.

Parsons stats are unknown. Perhaps Parson can modify his stats, eg with exersise he may lose weight and gain movement points. Parson started the game basically a slacker, perhaps he will end the game a changed man.

In the end Parson may be more concerned with plotting for his survival than being on one side or another.

Just as archons could see or guess at the suggestion spell, in future they may have more of an idea than most what Parson is/can do.

Romance angle, it is possible at some point Parson may get a love interest. Perhaps an archon, opposites attract. There is already a small tension between one archon who bends the rules and 2 that may not like bending without getting extra pay.

At the end of Wizard of Oz, charactors in real life ended up matches to the story, same may happen here.