Sage Advice: Feats

[Yorrin]

Since I didn't see anyone else posting it...
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat...geadvice_feats

As close as we're going to get to official rulings on a lot of corner cases. Amusingly all of these were my own interpretation as well, except the second ruling under magic initiate. Fun stuff. I imagine this will spark a whole new wave of contention, as such rulings often do.

[Bigby]

Interesting. Though I wasn't really sure of the issues since I haven't really looked at those feats in depth.

[Kryx]

Quite disappointed that he allows the same Hand Crossbow to be fired, but does not allow dual wielding Hand Crossbows. Totally the wrong choice imo. I'll be ruling the other way.

Also Lucky making Disadvantage super advantage is astronomically bad. You're better off using lucky when you have disadvantage than normal.

[rollingForInit]

Quite disappointed that he allows the same Hand Crossbow to be fired, but does not allow dual wielding Hand Crossbows. Totally the wrong choice imo. I'll be ruling the other way.

Agreed. Way to ruin a perfectly fun and not unbalanced fantasy concept from being played RAW.

Well, two concepts. Dual-wielding hand crossbows, and having a melee weapon in the other hand. Since you'd get one shot per fight from the hand crossbow.

[Gruzzle]

I'm actually pleased with the ruling on crossbows, as I am currently trying to construct an effective ranged assassin who uses one hand crossbow as a primary weapon. This may be a terrible idea, but I haven't been able to math my way to victory on that yet.

[Yorrin]

Also Lucky making Disadvantage super advantage is astronomically bad. You're better off using lucky when you have disadvantage than normal.

Yeah, my house ruling here allows you to pick between your lucky roll and the lower of your first two disadvantage rolls. Crawford's ruling here is kinda... bad.

[Naanomi]

Note it says you need a free hand so no hand crossbow + shield (unless it is an animated shield)

[burninatortrog]

Well, two concepts. Dual-wielding hand crossbows, and having a melee weapon in the other hand. Since you'd get one shot per fight from the hand crossbow.

It seems to me that, for a character with the Crossbow Expert feat, fighting with a hand crossbow and a melee weapon would look like this:

Round 1: Make a melee attack, put away the melee weapon, fire the hand crossbow.
Round 2: Fire the hand crossbow, draw the melee weapon, make a melee attack.

Rinse, repeat.

You're better off using lucky when you have disadvantage than normal.

To me, this seems completely natural. Isn't the purpose of that feat to help characters escape nasty situations?

[Easy_Lee]

Toss hand crossbow 1, load hand crossbow 2 and fire, catch hand crossbow 1, repeat. Might need sleight of hand proficiency for that one, though.

You could also do like Cadderly from the Cleric Quintet and keep hand crossbows strapped to your belt on tethers. It's canon.

[ChubbyRain]

Having two semi automatic hand crossbows is no different mechanically than having one hand crossbow and reloading it over and over.... The mechanics are just the same, the biggest difference is one brings in John Woo and the other supports Clint Eastwood more.

I hope that makes sense lol.

[Easy_Lee]

Well, being able to use just one is very convenient if you find a magical crossbow.

[ChubbyRain]

Well, being able to use just one is very convenient if you find a magical crossbow.

Yes, but magic items are not assumed to be part of the game, and most don't play at a level they are really needed.

Which you could just make a pair of hand crossbows that each have the same properties and one only works if the other is being wielded too.

Give some fluff about them being a older sister/younger brother pair of weapons? *shrug*

[Joe the Rat]

Quite disappointed that he allows the same Hand Crossbow to be fired, but does not allow dual wielding Hand Crossbows. Totally the wrong choice imo. I'll be ruling the other way.

Also Lucky making Disadvantage super advantage is astronomically bad. You're better off using lucky when you have disadvantage than normal.

Sure you can dual-wield. Attack with a Hand Crossbow (which is a one-handed weapon), then use your bonus action to attack with another Hand Crossbow. It's the same as using the feat to Sword-and-PistolHand Crossbow it. Now if you are referring to how you only need one Hand Crossbow to use the trick, then dual Hand Crossbows does become superfluous, and in fact problematic with the ammunition feature, but not out-and-out disallowed. It comes down to which you find more acceptable - a feat that gives you an extra attack with a specific weapon, or being able to load crossbows while your hands are full. Or both.

I'm going to have to think about the implications for Lucky here, but thematically pulling off the impossible when the cards (or dice) are stacked against you seems like an appropriate use. But I can see how that could quickly degenerate into Discworld-style probability manipulation.

Having two semi automatic hand crossbows is no different mechanically than having one hand crossbow and reloading it over and over.... The mechanics are just the same, the biggest difference is one brings in John Woo and the other supports Clint Eastwood more.

I hope that makes sense lol.

I think that sums it up perfectly. The bonus action shot and fast reload one Hand Crossbow does have the feel of fanning a single-action revolver.

[coredump]

Having two semi automatic hand crossbows is no different mechanically than having one hand crossbow and reloading it over and over.... The mechanics are just the same, the biggest difference is one brings in John Woo and the other supports Clint Eastwood more.

I hope that makes sense lol.

But the same mechanic that allows for John Woo allows for Clint Eastwood to also have a shield.


I am very supportive of the handbow clarifications. It is the way I thought they were written, and the way I thought they should be.

Not happy with the Lucky ruling (not overly concerned however) I agree it should be
1) roll 2 dice for Disadv, pick lowest.
2)If you want, you may roll another die and use it or the die picked above.

But, I don't think its that big of a deal.

[ChubbyRain]

But the same mechanic that allows for John Woo allows for Clint Eastwood to also have a shield.


I am very supportive of the handbow clarifications. It is the way I thought they were written, and the way I thought they should be.

Ummm so? Give the person a shield, big whoop.

It is a good tactics and doesn't unbalanced the game. Warlock + moderately armored = Shield + Eldritch Blast (1d10+ Cha, 1d10+Cha) at level 5.

Noncasters should get cool things too.

I know it blows peoples minds but tolkien ISN'T the be all end all of fantasy.

[Easy_Lee]

Ummm so? Give the person a shield, big whoop.

It is a good tactics and doesn't unbalanced the game. Warlock + moderately armored = Shield + Eldritch Blast (1d10+ Cha, 1d10+Cha) at level 5.

Noncasters should get cool things too.

I know it blows peoples minds but tolkien ISN'T the be all end all of fantasy.

Crossbow Expert is a little bit better damage than Eldritch blast, given the bonus attack and ability to use it in melee. Warlocks using EB is also the only cantrip for which it's possible to add one's casting stat more than once, meaning fighters start pulling ahead at 5 if not sooner.

[D.U.P.A.]

So if you get Magic initiate for the same class, you effectively gain additional spell slot which can be used for a different spell than you chose for the feat?

You can do this way also with Eldritch knight and Arcane trickster if choosing Wizard's Magic initiate?

[Easy_Lee]

So if you get Magic initiate for the same class, you effectively gain additional spell slot which can be used for a different spell than you chose for the feat?

You can do this way also with Eldritch knight and Arcane trickster if choosing Wizard's Magic initiate?

As written in the article, it seems that way.

[Kajorma]

Reloading a crossbow and firing rapidly makes way more sense than firing and reloading two hand crossbows.

I do traditional archery. Crossbows are not my thing, but I've played with both regular and hand crossbows.
Getting off more than one bolt in 6 seconds means you are damned good, but I have seen it happen. (well, I saw 9 in 30 seconds, which is close) Firing 3 times in 6 seconds would be superhumanly fast.

Using a crossbow in each hand doesn't work at all without some sort of magical (or maybe gnomish engineering) explanation.
Reloading a crossbow (hand-crossbow or otherwise) is simply a two handed operation.

That said, this comes down to straight style, since the mechanics work out the same. In things like that, I usually default to letting the player describe it the way they want.

[rhouck]

Yeah, my house ruling here allows you to pick between your lucky roll and the lower of your first two disadvantage rolls. Crawford's ruling here is kinda... bad.

This is what I assumed the ruling was until I reread it. That's really bizarre. Based on Crawford's ruling, a Lucky character should drop prone before attacking so he gets to roll three dice, and then stand back up at the end of his turn to suffer no ill effects...

[ChubbyRain]

Reloading a crossbow and firing rapidly makes way more sense than firing and reloading two hand crossbows.

I do traditional archery. Crossbows are not my thing, but I've played with both regular and hand crossbows.
Getting off more than one bolt in 6 seconds means you are damned good, but I have seen it happen. (well, I saw 9 in 30 seconds, which is close) Firing 3 times in 6 seconds would be superhumanly fast.

Using a crossbow in each hand doesn't work at all without some sort of magical (or maybe gnomish engineering) explanation.
Reloading a crossbow (hand-crossbow or otherwise) is simply a two handed operation.

That said, this comes down to straight style, since the mechanics work out the same. In things like that, I usually default to letting the player describe it the way they want.

Go read the definition of fantasy please. D&D is a fantasy game not a simulation game.

[Slipperychicken]

Does Crossbow Expert let you fire a hand crossbow and then fire it again as a bonus action? It does! Take a look at the feat’s third benefit. It says you can attack with a hand crossbow as a bonus action when you use the Attack action to attack with a one-handed weapon. A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.

My crossbow-wielding arcane trickster rogue sends his regards.

For example, if you have disadvantage on your attack roll, you could spend a luck point, roll a third d20, and then decide which of the three dice to use. You still have disadvantage, since the feat doesn’t say it gets rid of it, but you do get to pick the die.

This is absurd. Crawford may have just made Lucky the strongest feat in the game. I really hope they backtrack on this.

[Giant2005]

Crawford's ruling here is kinda... bad.

All of his rulings are exceptionally bad with the sole exception of Polearm Master which was so straight forward he couldn't possibly mess it up.

His interpretation of Crossbow Expert essentially turns a Hand Crossbow into a two-handed weapon which completely invalidates the Hand Crossbow's reason for existing. You may as well just use a Heavy Crossbow and call it a day. I also have no idea how he turned it into a two-handed weapon and still decided that the feat's third benefit would apply.

Lucky turning disadvantage into super advantage is monstrously bad and doesn't need any form of commentary as to why. It also turns enemy attacks with advantage into super disadvantage. I guess the smart combat technique is to make sure you use half your movement to lay down prone before a melee combatant attacks you.

As for Magic Initiate, not only is his ruling wrong (The feat flat out says that the spell can only be cast once per day, end of story) but it is also exceptionally weird. His clause that you can use spell slots to cast the spell but only if it is a spell your class has access to anyway flies in the face of what spell slots are. As per the Multiclassing rules, spell slots don't care one bit where the spell is coming from - in order to come up with his strange ruling, he had to literally invent a whole new mechanic which is contrary to the mechanics defined within the books. I do kind of like it though, it makes Magic Initiate far more useful.

[Giant2005]

So if you get Magic initiate for the same class, you effectively gain additional spell slot which can be used for a different spell than you chose for the feat?

You can do this way also with Eldritch knight and Arcane trickster if choosing Wizard's Magic initiate?

No it is the opposite of what you said.
The Magic Initiate feat gives you a spell which you can cast once per day but his ruling enables you also to use your spell slots to cast that spell so it can be cast more than once per day. You can't cast your other spells as that once per day action.

[Easy_Lee]

No it is the opposite of what you said.
The Magic Initiate feat gives you a spell which you can cast once per day but his ruling enables you also to use your spell slots to cast that spell so it can be cast more than once per day. You can't cast your other spells as that once per day action.

Right, his ruling is that you also add the spell to your spells known if it's from your class. It doesn't create a slot, so you still treat the spell you chose as a once / day power. Otherwise warlocks would have a field day with this one.

[Kryx]

All of his rulings are exceptionally bad with the sole exception of Polearm Master which was so straight forward he couldn't possibly mess it up.

His interpretation of Crossbow Expert essentially turns a Hand Crossbow into a two-handed weapon which completely invalidates the Hand Crossbow's reason for existing. You may as well just use a Heavy Crossbow and call it a day. I also have no idea how he turned it into a two-handed weapon and still decided that the feat's third benefit would apply.

Lucky turning disadvantage into super advantage is monstrously bad and doesn't need any form of commentary as to why. It also turns enemy attacks with advantage into super disadvantage. I guess the smart combat technique is to make sure you use half your movement to lay down prone before a melee combatant attacks you.

As for Magic Initiate, not only is his ruling wrong (The feat flat out says that the spell can only be cast once per day, end of story) but it is also exceptionally weird. His clause that you can use spell slots to cast the spell but only if it is a spell your class has access to anyway flies in the face of what spell slots are. As per the Multiclassing rules, spell slots don't care one bit where the spell is coming from - in order to come up with his strange ruling, he had to literally invent a whole new mechanic which is contrary to the mechanics defined within the books. I do kind of like it though, it makes Magic Initiate far more useful.

I agree with everything said here. Terrible terrible sage advice.

I will personally allow for hand crossbows to be strapped to the wrist or allow for repeating ones to be purchased. Twice with the same one invalidates any reason to dual wield them at all. No thanks.

[D.U.P.A.]

Right, his ruling is that you also add the spell to your spells known if it's from your class. It doesn't create a slot, so you still treat the spell you chose as a once / day power. Otherwise warlocks would have a field day with this one.

Ah good point.

[pwykersotz]

With regards to his clarification on Lucky, I can't help but get the feeling that he didn't say what he meant. Otherwise, what was the point of him saying "You still have disadavantage"? I agree that the reading that I have and that everyone above seems to have is terrible.

Other than that, no problem with the clarifications here.

[burninatortrog]

Otherwise, what was the point of him saying "You still have disadavantage"?

Certain game mechanics, like Sneak Attack, depend on whether or not a roll has disadvantage.

[pwykersotz]

Certain game mechanics, like Sneak Attack, depend on whether or not a roll has disadvantage.

Ah, good point.