Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

[BRC]

Concerning Street Size: That's a big reason why Goats are so popular as beasts of burden. Even loaded up with cargo they arn't much wider than a normal person, letting them navigate backroads (Big boulevards of course have plenty of room for carts).

Concerning Water: Like many things in Ishka, there is no one answer. The Fountain probably provides alot, as does the river or various other magic items.

Concerning your story: Awesome! I can't wait to read more. It needs a name though, maybe "Newcomer".

[Silverscale]

Another thought I had about ghosts, granted they never "die" but eventually most of them move on and therefore they don't actually accumulate as much as you'd think.....certainly not enough to account for 50% or even 30% of the total population of Ishka. Even 5% seems pretty high to me because that means there 1 ghost for every 19 other inhabitant.

[Owrtho]

While it's true some ghosts would leave, I expect that they would accumulate at a higher rate than they deplete. After all, as they don't die, they would mostly be motivated by unfinished business and avoiding boredom. Having lived mostly in Ishka, thats where the majority would have any unfinished business. Also Ishka would likely be among the most interesting places (or at least one of the easiest places to consistently find interesting things). Then there are the ghosts that decide to take up jobs as ghosts.

Also there are places like Ether, the district scattered throughout the city but in the ethereal plan and populated solely by ghosts.
Even if they rarely are seen, I expect that the number of ghosts is quite high and could easily account for around 30% of the population. Especially given how old Ishka is.

Also, thinking about it, an idea for an organization (better name would be welcome).
The City Wide Incorporeal Gambling Syndicate
Given the large number of ghosts in Ishka, and how long they persist, many come to find that all they have little to do, and thus strive to find interesting things to keep them occupied with their death. For that purpose the IGS was formed. Consisting solely of ghosts, most of its members no longer have any particular steak in the happenings of the living. However, to avoid boredom they make bets and wagers on interesting events that are going on. They also keep each other informed and observe things throughout the city. Usually they avoid interfering, but that is more out of curiosity of how events will happen on their own rather than actual rules.
While they lack any actual things to bet, they instead have a point system that they use. A members rank is determined by how many points they have, an many ghosts have since come to make note of the points even when they don't take part themselves (It has even caused living to make note of it due to how much weight it can carry among the ghosts of the city). A ghost upon joining the IGS gets 1000 points to use. Often they will have multiple wagers running at once. If a ghost runs out of points due to bad wagers, they can either attempt to borrow them from other ghosts on those ghosts terms, or take a loss point and get another 1000 points. A loss point is generally considered bad to have causing most ghosts to try to avoid that choice, but many have one or two from when they first started.
There are a few ghosts who are in charge of keeping the records for the points each ghost has. All wagers are reported to them.

Owrtho

[TheLonelyScribe]

What we do have to remember, of course, is that not everybody becomes a ghost. In fact, according to the core rulebooks, it's very rare, as most people move on to the outer planes as soon as they die. I think 5% is good.

Anyway: Immigrant Episode 2: Beauty and the Mind Flayer

Spoiler

Show

After Gerald had recovered, Lemmant apologised to Xchi'kanahada.

'Very sorry, Xchi, you know how some of them can be like.'

'Oh no, don't worry. You don't work in customs and immigrations for 18 years without somebody calling you a monster.'

Gereald thought for a second. He had not meant to be so rude, and when he had heard about the city he knew that there would be some strange people. Just, when the thought 'strange people' he thought a couple of elves and dwarves, maybe your odd halfling, not mind flayers and demons!

Anyway, Gerald had decided he would be an accepting person in the city, and so he would be.

'I'm very sorry for my behaviour, Mr. Kanahada, I'll be sure to be more accepting in the future.'

'Don't worry, I'm used to it. And please call me Xchi, for short. My last name is Qvrtlktshanghaktut.'

'Umm. OK.... Is this rude? It's just that my grandfather once told me about mind flayers-'

'I prefer the term 'Illithid''

'Right, Illithids. But, don't you eat brains?'

The Illithid laughed. Lemmant looked worried.

'Gerald, Xchi is part of the IIG, you can tell by his badge here. He only eats animal brains.'

'Although I do sometimes go down to the Necropolis to get something a little more tasty!' Immediately he began laughing again.

Gerald was feeling thoroughly confused.

'Umm... The necropolis?'

Wiping a tear from his eye, Xchi responded. 'Look there's lots you don't know, but first accompany me into the other room, you need to understand some things before you get out into the big wide world, and I'm in charge of getting you settled in.'

Gerald smiled. 'OK, as long as you don't eat my brain.'

Xchi had another laughing fit, and Lemmant looked critically at Gerald.

'OK, get a move on you two, we can't have you blocking up the hallway forever.'

Reluctantly, Xchi composed himself and led Gerald into the next room.

'Is it alright if I do some background brain scanning during this interview? It helps me get more detailed answers from you, and helps me to ask the right questions.'

'Um, OK.'

'Good, lets get started then. What are your skills.'

'Beetles.'

'What to do with beetles? Collecting them, worshipping them, fashioning them out of the primordial life force of the universe... In a city this size, it's good to be as specific as you can.'

'Well, I suppose I collect them, but it's more like studying them really. I go to the temple often, the one in my village is to Betelgoron, god of cataloguing small insects and other invertebrates. Sometimes I make little models of insects, and Mr Red, that's the head priest, would put them on display.'

'Betelgoron, you say. I think I saw a shrine to him in the temple district once.'

Xchi fiddled around with a file for a little, mumbling things like 'no, he's not undead' and 'No, Ravenshome would mess him up, he's a human, not a bleeding Formian.'

Finally he seemed happy. 'Excellent, there's free space in...'

ZOMG GUYZ!!!1!1 PLOT VOTE!!1!1!1
Will Gerald live in....
a) the temple district
b) the commons
c) the academy
d) the steamworks
e) the Ishkan republic
f) other?

Oh, and apologies for Betelgoron, I'm just a huge fan of ridiculously specific gods.

[Owrtho]

I realize not everyone becomes a ghost. The thing is that it would be much more common in Ishka than elsewhere. After all, there is a 1 in 5 chance of randomly becoming an undead when you die. If around 1 in 20 of those are ghosts, then that means 1 in 100 people becomes a ghost when they die on average. Ishka has a population of over 1 billion, and has been around for a long time (I expect at least 1000 years based on it's size). As the ghosts just accumulate for the most part, that ends up being a population of around 10% ghosts (based on the annual death rate being about 1/6 of the estimated annual death rate of the earth, though that might not be quite accurate due to different races having different life spans).
It also doesn't account for ghosts that move to Ishka from other places, which seems like it could be quite common. After all, the way I see it, if you become stuck as a ghost and aren't of the evil spirit that causes trouble variety, then odds are your biggest concern will be saving off boredom. Ishka is a place where things are always going on, and is so large and varied that something of interest can always be found. At the same time, as a single entity (sorta), it is fairly easy to travel between the places and (at least for ghosts) get information of other places. As such I think it would be a fairly appealing place for ghosts to move and settle down, further swelling the population of ghosts. As such I could see it being around 30%. That said, I expect that the number that are regularly seen (if you don't seek them out or spend a good bit of time on the ethereal plane) is only around 6 or 7 % of them (as in of the ghost population, not total).

Also, on the districts, I'll point out that aside from those that cater to specific races or groups of races (such as Necropolis, Smallville, Mithral Heights, Ungul, etc.) and a few odd ones (Ravenshome, and likely 1 or two others I can't think of), most of the districts are in fact business districts where not too many people live (people still live there but not many). The commons are where the majority of people live, and are not actually a district themselves so much as a number of districts (or some might see them as outskirts) that border the other districts (thus most people live in the commons near the district they work in, if they don't run a small business in the commons). As for the steamworks, those actually are a large number of places throughout the city that are sort of like factories and have few actual residents, most commuting there for work. As for the Academy and temple districts (along with some others I suppose), while they are business districts for the most part, they do tend to be populated, but mainly by those that work there (as in the people who want to be monks, priests, etc. or are studying things).
That said, I would say the most likely place he would move is the commons. However, given his past, i could also see him moving to the academy or the temple district. The first due to his study of bugs, the second due to his studying of bugs being a religious matter. Based on how things look so far, I'd have to vote The Academy (though voting other Hedon was tempting for humor).

Owrtho

[Silverscale]

1!1!1 PLOT VOTE!!1!1!1
Will Gerald live in....
a) the temple district
b) the commons
c) the academy
d) the steamworks
e) the Ishkan republic
f) other?

I vote for an area of The Commons near The Academy, live in the Commons, work in the Academy, that way we can get a flavor of both.

[Silverscale]

As far as the population of Ishka.....lets say for the sake of argument that the percentage of Incorporeal Undead listed with the rest of the population represents only the ghosts that keep jobs and spend most of their time on the material plane. I agree that there could very well be a huge population of ghosts that most people never interact with.

[Renrik]

I've been thinking that, with all these ghosts, perhaps ethereal plane buildings will be found all over the city, and the burghs of Ether are just more specific, highly built-up ones that are hubs of ghost activity.

On the matter of population density, let's not forget the presence of the Shadow Plane and how many of the inhabitants live there, too, both in and out of Shadowgate or whatever we named that district.

I think the concept of demographic shift, instead of clear boundaries, is important in a city like Ishka. The districts themselves have clear political boundaries, but I don't think even specific racial districts like Ungul or Gulliver's Heights are totally homogeneous. You can find goblins throughout the city, and in Gobin (and remember, not all the goblins are necessarily from the same goblin culture in Gobin- they could be from other material planes, even). You could find four-legged creatures outside of Ungul.

I think this paradigm in thought should be kept with regards to the separation of home and work. Remember that even with Ishka's public transportation networks, getting from one district to another is a big deal. The whole concept of bedroom communities is really a product of the rise of the middle class in post-industrial western capitalist societies. Usually, in most of history, people live near or at where they work.

In regards to the 'lives' of ghosts, I am tempted to look to the campaign setting, Manifest, for inspiration on how ghosts may spend their days and nights. Remember that they don't require sleep. I suppose some of the best scholars at the University would be ghosts.

I think the ghost gambling should work like mutual credit, not like currency. You start with no points, and having no points is average. Having points is good. Having negative points is bad.

Hmm.... now ya'll are tempting me to go ahead and make a campaign in this city. I've already got two campaigns running, but the socialist revolutionary campaign I made in Sharn went south because all my players were moderates who didn't know what socialism meant, assumed I wanted them to be anarchists, and then grievously misunderstood what anarchism was, eventually becoming insane terrorists. So, now, I have another possible group starting up with players who not only understand anarchism and socialism, but *are* anarchists, communists, and socialists. I may have to start a campaign here with them, maybe as Collective or Wild members, and post a fiction based on it.

[BRC]

The way I see it, most people live generally where they work. The big exceptions are places like the Steamworks or the Port which require a massive labor force, which is why the "Shiftward" stations go from the commons to the Steamworks.

Wealthy individuals use portal passes to get around, meaning they can live in, say, mithril heights, but quickly get to the Market District every day.

The Market District is really just a highly commercialized district, plenty of people live there, and though many people go there to shop, it's primarily a distribution center for smaller merchants around the city.


Also, concerning Ghosts. I have a feeling some do fade away after a while. There's enough planar instability in Ishka for some to die one way or another.


The way I imagine it, Ishkan ghosts (That is, people who arise spontaneously, not because of some unfinished business or something) are held together more or less by their will. If they have something to do, they will likely stick around for quite some time. However, ghosts with nothing to do, nothing to really interest them, become more and more apathetic, just sitting and watching the world go by. This is shown by them becoming more and more transparent, as their connection to the material plane loosens. Eventually, they simply vanish.

[Silverscale]

I've just run some more numbers to try and pin down this population question. If we assume that the Canyon itself is 5 Miles Wide on average. and the city takes up an additional 20 Miles on either side of the Canyon. We already know that the Canyon is 400 Miles Long, lets assume the Lake District adds another 50 Miles to the Length of Ishka. This gives us an area of 450x45 or 20,250 square miles.
If we assume Ishka has a similar population density to Tokyo Japan, 15,143.7/square mile, then without adding in any extra dimensional spaces or anything of the sort, then that gives us a population of 306,659,925. This is also assuming that the average size of an inhabitant is Medium, which since no one has given me any different percentages is a valid assumption.
Now if we count extra dimensional spaces, caverns, etc that will probably double the population to just over 600,000,000.
Now unless you're prepared to convince me that people in Ishka are more densely packed than a city where the Hotel rooms are 4ftx4ftx6ft coffins, then I'd say that the Absolute Maximum Capacity for Ishka is not 3Billion or even 1Billion but .75Billion

[TheLonelyScribe]

I think I'm going to have to agree with Silverscale. Either Ishka has 750 million people (which is more than twice the amount of people living in the USA) or it's going to have to be bigger.

[Renrik]

Well, there's a simple solution. Make it bigger. This is a very old canyon. The average for the grand canyon is 10 miles. Let's make this 10 miles, and 500 miles long. Also, I don't think you multiplied by the number of layers in that one. We've got forty layers in the canyon. So, in the canyon itself, let's say we've got:

10x500x40= 200,000 square miles

Then, let's say we have, in addition to that, at least 10 miles on either side, for another... five layers? That's an additional

20x500x5=50,000 square miles

Now, let's assume we have enough caverns, that, were we to consolidate them, they would expand the canyon by 2.5 miles on either side. That's in line with other estimates of the caverns mutliplying the capacity of Ishka's canyon by 1.5.

2.5x2x500x40= 100,000 sq miles

Now, let's get an additional count of, say, 50,000 square miles for extradimensional spaces.

Now we have 400,000 square miles. That's saying that if we took Ishka apart and laid it out flat, it would be the size of California. I don't think that's a huge exaggeration (not, this is a rough estimate, I'm not thinking about creature sizes or types, and I'm not counting things like Mithral Heights that reaches far beyond the otherwise highest heights of the city.)

Now, with the figure you gave for Tokyo at 15,143.7 per square mile, I say Ishka could have a population of over six billion. Now, that's probably extreme, now that I've done all the math. But, even if we just applied the correct 40 layers to your calculations and said the lake district only had one layer, we'd get

(400x5x40)+(5x50)+(400x20)=88,250 sq mi for the main city
2x88,250=176,500 sq mi for the total city
176,500x15,143.7=over 2.5 billion
not counting Galdren, which is sure to have a few million

[TheLonelyScribe]

Perhaps we should make the population density slightly lower than Tokyo. Just because of two things, first, although we have many layers, those layers in themselves will likely only have three stories at most. Tokyo has huge skyscrapers. I think we would have to figure out the amount of 'layers' in Tokyo, and adjust its population density accordingly. Also, we have huge spaces like the Fountain, the Light Engine, and the Hunting Grounds, where no-one would be able to live. They don't have anything of that size in Tokyo.

[Owrtho]

Well, if we go with Renrik's suggestion of expanding the size of the city some (which I agree with), and keep the population at around 1 billion, that would mean it's less than half that of Tokyo. Mind as said that fails to account for the skyscrapers that wouldn't exist in Ishka, but I think that the difference would make up for that.

For things like the Hunting Grounds and such, it doesn't seem much different from some of the major shopping areas in Japan where almost no one lives. Just that not many people work there either.

Also Renrik, I think that you forgot to add Mithral Heights into your calculation, as it includes what I seem to recall was practically a city in the clouds (if not for it being a part of Ishka already).

Owrtho

[Silverscale]

Well, there's a simple solution. Make it bigger. This is a very old canyon. The average for the grand canyon is 10 miles. Let's make this 10 miles, and 500 miles long. Also, I don't think you multiplied by the number of layers in that one.

Spoiler

Show

We've got forty layers in the canyon. So, in the canyon itself, let's say we've got:

10x500x40= 200,000 square miles

Then, let's say we have, in addition to that, at least 10 miles on either side, for another... five layers? That's an additional

20x500x5=50,000 square miles

Now, let's assume we have enough caverns, that, were we to consolidate them, they would expand the canyon by 2.5 miles on either side. That's in line with other estimates of the caverns mutliplying the capacity of Ishka's canyon by 1.5.

2.5x2x500x40= 100,000 sq miles

Now, let's get an additional count of, say, 50,000 square miles for extradimensional spaces.

Now we have 400,000 square miles. That's saying that if we took Ishka apart and laid it out flat, it would be the size of California. I don't think that's a huge exaggeration (not, this is a rough estimate, I'm not thinking about creature sizes or types, and I'm not counting things like Mithral Heights that reaches far beyond the otherwise highest heights of the city.)

Now, with the figure you gave for Tokyo at 15,143.7 per square mile, I say Ishka could have a population of over six billion. Now, that's probably extreme, now that I've done all the math. But, even if we just applied the correct 40 layers to your calculations and said the lake district only had one layer, we'd get

(400x5x40)+(5x50)+(400x20)=88,250 sq mi for the main city
2x88,250=176,500 sq mi for the total city
176,500x15,143.7=over 2.5 billion
not counting Galdren, which is sure to have a few million

Renrik, Please stop and think for a moment......when anyone, anywhere else on the planet counts population density do they add up the floors of all the buildings before calculating square miles???????? If your answer is NO THEY DO NOT then why are we adding up the layers to add into the square mileage?

We are already talking about a city that is bigger than the state of West Virginia. Granted nowhere else will you find a canyon completely filled in with buildings but if you think about it, things like The Groves, The Hunting Grounds, and Enormous temples in The Temple District, not to mention there are still roads/pathways that take up some amount of space.

I agree with your first statement though, if you want a bigger population for Ishka, just make it bigger.

[TheLonelyScribe]

Renrik, Please stop and think for a moment......when anyone, anywhere else on the planet counts population density do they add up the floors of all the buildings before calculating square miles???????? If your answer is NO THEY DO NOT then why are we adding up the layers to add into the square mileage?

Because very few cities have 120 floor buildings practically everywhere. (3 per layer)

[TheLonelyScribe]

Um, check my math, but:

Width: 10 miles
Length: 500 miles
Layers: 40
Average Height of buildings in layers: 3 floors, 10m
Average Height (very roughly) of buildings in Tokyo: 200m
Layers Tokyo would take up: 20
Effective Layers, taking into account Tokyo-type density: 2
Effective Area: 10x500x2 = 10,000 miles (16,093 km)
If pop Density = Tokyo, pop: 151,430,000

I know I'm not taking into account extra planes and caverns, but still! Even if we half the (very roughly estimated) average height of buildings in Tokyo, even quarter it, we still end up with significantly less than 1 billion!

Although- don't forget that even a city with 150m people in it is still a lot larger than most countries. I don't know if we need to have 1 billion people, it can still be the hub of the world with a much more modest population size.

[jagadaishio]

On the topic of incorporeal undead, I agree that the population would be higher then 5%, but probably lower than 15% or even 10%. The rationale is that, yes, the ghost population grows constantly, with far more people reawakening as ghosts per year than ghosts being killed or Fading (with a big F), but Ishka's living population is also climbing like crazy, ever-expanding just like any other healthy city. So, while the ghost population is constantly climbing, the fact that the city's whole population is on the rise keeps it more or less even, probably somewhere around 8%, between final-death, Fading, voluntary euthanasia of people who detest the idea of being undead, and the rare undead emigration. Certain civic engineers have theorized that if the city's living population growth ever slowed, though, the city's undead population would climb to a majority over the course of less than three human generations.

On the topic of mail, I think it's quite obvious that the stamps themselves are single-use magic items of a specialized sort of teleport. Sometimes you can get cheaper ones of Animate Object or Animal Messenger for delivery, but those are unreliable. Either way, the stamps themselves are the objects of teleport, the mail boxes just have address plates of teleportation beacons on them.

On the topic of Ishka's size and population, I'm find with widening/lengthening the canyon. I'm also fine with leaving it as is and having a population of barely a half-billion people. Even if it's barely a half-billion, it's still larger than most nations on earth, and certainly all nations on its world. That's all in a single city, too.

[Owrtho]

That's all in a single city, too.

Makes you wonder about the nation it's a part of.

Owrtho

[BRC]

Makes you wonder about the nation it's a part of.

Owrtho

Ishka is a nation. It's a city-state.

[TheLonelyScribe]

Thought I'd just write up a 3.5 Economancer prestige class. I used a couple of BRC's ideas, as you can see. Anyway, enjoy and PEACH:

Prerequisites:
Abilities: Int 14
Spells: Detect Thoughts
Skills: Profession (salesman, banker, economic adviser etc.) 6

HD: d4

Class Skills: Bluff, Concentrate, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local, Arcana and one other), Profession, Spellcraft
Skill points per level: 4+ Int modifier

Economancer
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

1st|

+0

|

+0

|

+0

|

+2

|Detect Desire, Mastery of the Market|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

2nd|

+1

|

+0

|

+0

|

+3

|Detect Transaction|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

3rd|

+1

|

+1

|

+1

|

+3

|Reduce Tax|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

4th|

+2

|

+1

|

+1

|

+4

|Trace Supply|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

5th|

+2

|

+1

|

+1

|

+4

|Sell Any Object|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

Detect Desire (Su): The Economancer can go into a deep trance a number of times per day equal to his Economancer level, becoming aware of the material desires of creatures around him. He senses a number of desired items or services equal to his Economancer level, detecting the most desired thing first, then the second most desired thing, then the third etc. He may only sense material desires, so in the temple district he will not sense 'Prayer' or 'Salvation', but he might sense 'Holy Water' or 'Sacred Talismans'. He will not sense 'Love', but in a place like Hedon he may well sense 'Sex'.

The trance lasts different amounts of time depending on how specific an area the Economancer is focusing on. (1m is about three feet)

{table=head]Radius of Area|Length of Trance

300m+|

2 rounds

100m - 300m|

3 rounds

50m - 100m|

5 rounds

50m - 1m|

7 rounds

[/table]

During a trance the Economancer is treated as blind, deaf, and helpless. He must make concentration checks and provoke attacks of opportunity as if casting a 2nd level spell.

Selling the most desired object in the area gives a +5 bonus to any profession, bluff, intimidate and/or diplomacy checks involved in selling that object in that area. Selling the second most desired object gives a +4 bonus, selling the third most desired object gives a +3 bonus etc.

Mastery of the Market (Ex): A Economancer may give a competence bonus to herself or any other (listening) person using the skill that they used to qualify for the Economancer class equal to (Int bonus/2) x Economancer level.

Detect Transaction (Su): This ability requires going into a meditative state similar to the one used to perform the Detect Desire ability, and using the same duration to get it going appropriate to distance (but inverted, the larger the radius, the longer it takes to move into the meditative state). There are two large differences. Instead of the effect lasting only for the amount of time the trance takes, it lasts until the character takes a standard or full-round action, and the effect is different.

The Economancer names any specific type of good (It can be as general as "Food" or as specific as "Imported Elven Folk Art"). Until this effect ends they become aware of any time that good is sold within the ability's radius. They know the price it was sold for, and the amount of goods sold. They do not know any of the parties involved or the location of the deal. It should be noted that you must know what is being sold, for instance: you could search for Imported Elven Folk Art, or Art, but not Imported Goods. Neither could you, say, use this ability to detect Stolen Goods. If you knew a +2 Greatsword had been stolen, you could use this to find somebody selling a +2 Greatsword, but you wouldn't know if it was stolen.

Reduce Tax (Ex): A 3rd level Economancer has so much mastery of the market that they can effectively reduce tax by up to (Economancer level x 2)%.

Trace Supply (Sp): By tuning in to the cosmic traces in an object held you can detect its origin. You may examine an item and know the price every time that item or the materials making it were sold (when sensing raw materials they sense how much the amount used to make the object cost).

For example, an Economancer examines a hat. She uses Trace Supply on it, and sees that the last time it was bought it was purchased for 10 gold. She does not sense when or where it was sold, or who bought it. She sees that it was bought before that for 6 gold (this is the shop buying it from the manufacturer, but she doesn't know that), and that it cost 4 gold to make. She then sees that the raw materials cost 3 gold to make, etc. etc.

She can go back a number of 'steps' like this equal to her Int bonus times 2.

Sell Any Object (Su): At 5th level the Economancer can try to sell anything to anyone at any time (well, Int bonus times per day), as long as they have the money with them to purchase it. He makes a Diplomacy, Intimidate or Bluff check against the target's will save or (target's Sense Motive modifier + 10), whichever is higher. If successful, the target must take a standard action to purchase it, and both parties are open to attacks of opportunity. For every 10% above or below the market price they are trying to sell the item for the Economancer takes a bonus or penalty of 2 on their check. If the target is in combat or otherwise unlikely to be interested in purchasing an item, the DM bestows an appropriate penalty.

[Wulfang]

Just finished reading through the whole thread, and this is some of the most awesome stuff I've ever read! Keep up the good work.

Also, just as minor nitpicks:
- At some point previously discarded districts like the Monastery and the Art Community started being listed again, while the previously agreed upon Entertainment District simply disappeared.

- BRC also makes frequent references to a Market/Merchant District, though that one has never shown up in any lists.

- What about the Dwarven District someone mentioned a long time ago? Has it been described yet?

[BRC]

Right, sorry, I assumed we had made a Market District. I'll detail it in abit.

[BRC]

District: The Market District.
Other Names: Bartertown, Merchant District.
Government: Economancer's Council.
Police Force: The Merchant's Guard.

Situated between the Port District and one of the largest Steamworks, the Market District is the beating heart of the city's commerce. Despite what you might think, the Market District is not a market. It has alot of banks and offices, but it's mainly warehouses.
This district is laid out largely on a grid pattern, with lots of portals and big thoroughfares for carts to move down. Primarily, this is the city's distribution hub. Goods that come in from elsewhere, raw materials, or mass produced good from the steamworks are collected here, then sent out to smaller merchants throughout the city. Some of these warehouses are split up and subdivided, some are owned by massive corporations, some are owned collectively by a conglomerate of merchants.

Between the warehouses there are merchants. Every couple days part of the district is shut down (Usually areas where the Warehouses contain goods that are not going anywhere for awhile) and the wide streets are turned into an open market. The Economancer's council declares open market for a certain type of good, and merchants and craftsmen from all over the city bring their goods to the district while people looking for that type of good come to shop.

Of course, these markets are chaotic affairs, and the Merchant's Guard can often barely keep order, making them ideal places for black market deals. The Alliance loves using these markets to launder money or move stolen goods.

The district is also one of the most accessable in the city. It has several Stations (From different lines), and lots of portals open here. The streets are patrolled by the Merchant's Guard, a police force largely recruited from the nearby commons. All people who use warehouses or make sales in the district (Outside of the chaotic Markets of course) pay taxes (And they ARE enforced, the district isn't run by economancer's for nothing) which go to the upkeep of the district. The Merchant's Guard sticks to patrolling the streets, but for an extra fee you can have them take up security duties on your business. If you want something extra, there are lots of private security firms that will gladly keep your merchandise safe. Some business owners have taken the extra step of paying the Alliance to declare their business off-limits. Of course, considering the decentralized nature of the alliance, and the fact that ANY dealings with the alliance are illegal (therefore, you're not exactly going to spread the word if the Alliance reneges on your deal), this is uncommon and not exactly reliable. It's better to invest in some good security, or just deal in goods nobody will bother stealing (While there's good money in Iron ingots, stealing enough to make a profit is more trouble than it's worth).

[Renrik]

Wait, how did we get a compromise between by ridiculous estimate and silverscale's estimate, and end up with less than silverscale got?!


Let me go over those again.

Width: 10 miles
Length: 500 miles
Layers: 40
Average Height of buildings in layers: 3 floors, 10m
Average Height (very roughly) of buildings in Tokyo: 200m
Layers Tokyo would take up: 20
Effective Layers, taking into account Tokyo-type density: 2
Effective Area: 10x500x2 = 10,000 miles (16,093 km)
If pop Density = Tokyo, pop: 151,430,000

10x500x2= 10,000 sq miles so far so good, now to add the additional stuff you didn't. With the added 10 miles of city on the sides, we get:

20x500= 10,000 sq miles

For a sum of 20,000 miles. The standard seems to be just doubling the number to account for the caves and extra-dimensional spaces, so let's say 40,000 sq miles. Multiply this by the population density:

40,000x15,143.7= enough room for 605,748,000 medium-sized inhabitant stuffed as tight as Tokyo. Now, I'd say that not every building in Tokyo is a skyscraper, but in this city, pretty much everything in three dimensions in inhabited. However, the presence of groves and such in the city probably make up the difference. We still have to add the lake district population and the Galdren population, and I think that perhaps we should have a bit more in the canyon since it rises up to probably about the same height as the city built on the sides- but then, the canyon is not a straight cube, and we counted it like it was, so we've probably already added as many there as we would counting the buildings in the canyon that rise above the canyon. All in all, then, we just take the .6 billion and add to it the population of the lake district. This total population count will not take into consideration ghosts, and will be in number of medium creatures that can fit comfortably.

For further extrapolating this, I think that we should turn each member of the population into a 'unit', and say that:
Creature Size=Number of Units
Fine= 0 (let's just not worry about fine creatures, and not abuse this)
Diminutive= .125
Tiny= .25
Small= .5
Medium= 1
Large= 2
Huge= 4
Gargantuan= 8
Colossal= 16

That might be being a bit kind to colossal creatures. Oh well. Anyway, we plug in the percentage of creatures that fall into each and figure out the total number of each size, which is a procedure beyond my math skills.

[TheLonelyScribe]

Guys! I made a whole prestige class and no-one's even commented. I put a lot of work into that you know...

Ah well, I still love you, and that's why I put all that work into figuring out this:

Just talking about the public transport, I figure that there would probably be about 34992 stations in Ishka. This would be split down into chunks, nine 'fast circle' stations (taking 45 minutes per complete cycle, and visiting district groups), each connecting to 18 more stations (a couple in each district, taking 1.5 hours per complete cycle), each connecting to two sets of 36 more stations (almost two on each level, one cycle going one way, and one going the other, meaning it takes a maximum of 1.5 hours to get anywhere you want), each connecting to 3 more stations (each level of each district is split into 15 sections, each station covers 5 of these, and it takes 15 minutes per complete cycle).

This means you could get pretty much anywhere in the city within four hours.

Episode 3: Getting Settled

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‘... Looks like there’s a good space in a section of the commons near the Academy. I’m presuming you would like to continue your study of beetles, as a profession.’

‘Um.. Yes, that sounds good I suppose.’

‘So... we’ll apply at the Academy for a job studying, collecting and cataloguing beetles, and to earn extra revenue you can sell some of those models you were talking about, and maybe do a few paid sermons at the temple of Betelgoron. That... seems like a good arrangement. Let’s get going.’

Xchi stood up and headed towards the door. Gerald followed. The left the interview room and walked down the hallway of the Customs and Immigrations building until they came to a large wooden door at the end. Xchi looked over his shoulder at Gerald.

‘Ready to see the City?’

He turned back round and flung the doors open. Gerald gasped. He had seen paintings and drawings of Ishka before, it was pretty much the hub of the world, after all. But nothing had prepared him for the living, breathing, bustling reality of it. This being the first layer, the sun shone brightly on the people bustling below. There were people shouting, selling goods, travelling, praying, everyone was doing something.

‘Pretty nice hey? Look, I’ve got you an apartment third level down, so you’ll get a decent amount of sunlight, but cheap apartments on third level are in high demand, so speed up and follow me.’

The mind flayer took Gerald through the crowds. Gerald didn’t really pay attention to where they were going, there were just too many amazing things going on around him. There was a man in a business suit, sitting cross-legged with his eyes closed in the middle of the square. There were winged creatures flying above. There was a man causing sparks and fireworks to come out of mid-air!

Xchi had already taken Gerald through the station and bought him a year-long pass before he had snapped out of it.

‘2gp 3sp please.’

‘Really? The prices really are rocketing up you know.’ Xchi rustled around in his bag and brought out a motley collection of tarnished coins. ‘Will this do?’

‘Yes, nicely. All aboard!’

Xchi hurried Gerald into a strange cabin covered in runes. It looked as if it wasn’t really supposed to be there, and seemed not to really fit into its surroundings. The Xchi hurried aboard and he and Gerald sat down together in the crowded room.

‘Why are we in here?’

‘You’ll find out.’

A mouth opened on the ceiling. It seemed to be made of wood. In a female voice it calmly said ‘doors closing, doors closing.’ And indeed they did, swinging shut with a ‘thump’ and locking themselves.

‘The next station is: the Necropolis, level 20. Departure in 5...’

People started to hold onto their seats.

‘4...’

A mother held her child closer to her.

‘3...’

‘Xchi, what’s going on?’ Asked Gerald.

‘2...’

‘Shh. Just hold on.’

‘1’

Suddenly the universe was whisked away from under Gerald’s seat. He fell into blackness, and felt as if he were being flung around by an angry giant. He felt as if he was going to be sick... But it was over as soon as it started. The room came to a halt, the lights turned back on, and the doors opened into a gloomy hallway that hadn’t been there before.

‘This is: the Necropolis, level 20. Alight here for services to: the Necropolis, Gobin, Hedon and Shadowgate.’

‘Pr’serve m’ Gods!’ said Gerald, ‘what just happened?’

Xchi smiled. ‘Simple teleportation, my friend. A bit rough, the Council doesn’t spend nearly enough on maintaining the proper enchantments. See, the corner of that rune is rubbing off. Don’t worry, next stop’s ours, then we should be able to transfer to a more well-looked-after line.’

The calm voice started speaking again. ‘Doors closing, doors closing. The next station is: the Academy, level 8. Departure in 5...4...3...2...1’

After another tumble in the void, Gerald was lead out of the cabin by Xchi to the tune of ‘This is: the Academy, level 8. Alight here for services to: the Academy, the Market district, Ravenshome and the Collected Colleges.’

After a few more stops and transfers, the arrival announcement said ‘This is: the Academy, level 3, sector 8. Alight here for: the Academy, level 3, sectors 5 to 10.’

Xchi led Gerald out onto the street. It wasn’t quite as busy as the first layer, but still had a large amount of people, and there were enough rays of sunlight filtering down to mean that there was no artificial illumination needed. They walked through the streets for a bit, and Xchi stopped to ask for directions.

‘Could you tell me the way to sector nine, block 10, The Hubris Apartment Building?’

The human turned round, then spat at the Illithid’s feet. ‘Not in my district I couldn’t, no. You’re not welcome here, aberration.’

Xchi ignored him, and simply asked someone across the street. After the person had given him a set of instructions so fast that Gerald had had a hard time keeping up, Xchi whisked off, and they were at the door of a fairly large building. Xchi knocked.

Gerald is a:

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1st lvl Expert

Skills: Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (beetles) +6, Knowledge (local-home town in countryside) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Profession (beetle collecting) +5, Craft (models) +6, Tumble +5, Diplomacy +6

Abilities:
Str 12 (Fairly lithe, but not much more than a bit over average)
Con 12 (Fairly good at running, but not incredible)
Dex 12 (Needs to be dexterous to catch those beetles, but has no more finesse than is needed in his line of work)
Int 14 (Quite sharp, very interested in science and logic)
Wis 12 (The reasoning behind this one is similar to that behind his fairly high dexterity)
Cha 14 (Although no-one meeting him would say he's incredibly charismatic or persuasive, his fairly good looks and general likeability go a long way)

BAB: +0 Fort: +1 Ref: +1 Will: +3

Starting Gold: 30gp

Height: 6ft (1.84m) Weight: 180lb (82kg) Hair colour: dirty blonde Eye colour: blue

[TheLonelyScribe]

We have 600,000,000 ‘population units’. We want to figure out the population

This is the amount of population units that each creature in the category takes up.

Diminutive= .125
Tiny= .25
Small= .5
Medium= 1
Large= 2
Huge= 4
Gargantuan= 8
Colossal= 16

This is the percentage of the final population (not the population units) that we want each type creature to take up (I know these don’t add up to 100, but the other creatures take up effectively no space. It ought to be possible to come up with a number for them once the others have been figured out.)

Diminutive: 6
Tiny: 7
Small: 18
Medium: 48
Large: 9
Huge: .7
Gargantuan: .2
Colossal: .1

Figuring this out, of course, is incredibly, ludicrously difficult. I should know, I've tried.

[jagadaishio]

The Economancer is well done and good what it's supposed to do - especially since it doesn't lose any caster levels. I can't help but imagine selling an enemy a lit bomb in the middle of a battle. Purchasing your own demise would be an interesting way to go, to say the least.

I'm liking the story of Gerald's immigration so far. The story coupled with BRC's ever-awesome Graveyard Shift serve to show the city from an outsider's perspective and an insider's perspective, respectively. I think that both are important for the benefit of better understanding.

Why does your list of final population percentages only add up to 89%? Are we assuming that 11% are fine or that 11% are undead or that 11% are incorporeal? Assuming that this phantom 11% are considered to be so small or incorporeal that they take up functionally no space or considerable resources, the Real Population would be approximately as follows:

Diminutive: 43.1 Million
Tiny: 50.3 Million
Small: 129.3 Million
Medium: 345 Million
Large: 64.7 Million
Huge: 5 Million
Gargantuan: 1.5 Million
Colossal: 700 Thousand
Phantom 11: 70 Million

[Renrik]

Whoah. Nice. Does that add up as per the specified population space?

[BRC]

Would there be that many creatures bigger than Large. Ogres would have trouble outside Gulliver's Heights, I can't imagine Collossal creatures being able to do anything in the city if they can't take a smaller form. The only Collossal creatures I could imagine in the city would be the two dragons, who have big caves to stay in. I certainly can't imagine 700000 of them. I mean, basically all they could do is get a single space big enough to hold them and never leave.
I say severely lower the demographics for all sizes bigger than Large and up the number of Mediums.

Remember, Cart's can't get through alot of streets, and Colossal creatures are the size of buildings.