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  1. - Top - End - #421
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Duly noted on the eye beams. Good point regarding multiclassing.

    As for the damage...
    [removed due to logical error]
    edit: The argument previously appearing here was flawed; in terms of straight melee damage the Ozodrin is quite formidable as soon as they learn Secreting Flesh, as it allows them to add damage to all their natural attacks with a single augment. Focused melee builds are more powerful, and it removes points that could otherwise be used for defense or mobility, but this class is primarily about versatility rather than power so as long as the capability is there we're good.

    edit edit: Still, it doesn't make much sense for a Colossal(+?) creature to still have their ordinary human strength and con. Maybe a +2 str or +1 con per 4 points as a flesh augment? Damage-wise that would be about half the energy secretions, but it would also allow better carrying/lifting, bashing through objects, etc. Maybe you could put limits on it based on size to avoid cheeze; for example maybe you can't add more than +8 to Str or +4 to con per size increase or something. Or maybe "Muscular Tentacle" and "Nimble Tentacle" augments (and equivalents for limbs) that only give the bonus for that feature, to avoid cheesiness while still allowing the capability. Just a thought.
    Currently you can make a Puppet with a Str of 40+, but the colossal tentacled beast controlling it is still stuck with 3-18 without outside enhancement, which typically requires either keeping humanoid form so that items fit you, multiclassing, or having a friend buff you.

    edit edit edit: (not actually a continuation of the previous points, but I didn't want to double-post) Some possible additions to the spell list for the Cerebrant Horror feat:
    Animate Objects (level 6, allows for making the terrain attack your opponents, something that several cosmic horrors are known for)
    Antimagic Field (level 6 or 8, would represent altering reality in the area to disrupt normal spells)
    Augery (level 2, represents limited insight into the function of the multiverse due to connection to things man was not meant to know)
    Bestow Curse (level 3 or 4, works best for those who took this class as the result of a curse of corruption, and represents spreading it to others)
    Black Tentacles (level 4, possibly like a more limited version of Corrupting Land)
    Crushing Despair (level 3 or 4)
    Dream (level 5, the dream invasion ability of many horrors)
    Earthquake (level 7 or 8, continues the "using terrain to kill you" course)
    Entangle (level 1, like a very low level Corrupting Land)
    Enthrall (level 2, represents the horrible fascination effect of some cosmic horrors)
    Entropic Shield (level 1, represents bending of reality to make opponents attacks fail)
    Misdirection/Nondetection/False Vision/Screen (level 2, 4, 5, and 7 or 8, represents the inherent mystery of creatures connected to the Far Realm by disrupting scrying, assuming you can't or don't want to use Sinister Image to eat anyone who scrys you)
    Feeblemind (level 5, allows you to reduce powerful but logical mages to gibbering drooling fools when they look at you)
    Globe of Invulnerability (and Lesser version, levels 6 and 4, altering reality to disrupt normal spells)
    Hallucinatory Terrain/Mirage Arcana (level 4 and 5, altering people's perceptions of their surroundings to screw with them)
    Hideous Laughter (level 1 or 2, more madness-inducing options)
    Lesser Confusion/Confusion/Insanity (level 1, 3 or 4, and 7, duh)
    Suggestion/Mass Suggestion/Modify Memory (level 2 or 3, 5 or 6, and 4?, altering peoples minds to conceal your actions, influence theirs, or drive them insane)
    Nightmare (level 5, screwing with dreams)
    Phantasmal Killer/Weird (level 4 and 9, scaring people to death)
    Reverse Gravity (level 7 or 8, altering reality to mess with people)

    ...I just realized that this could all be fixed with the line "At the GM's discretion, any other thematically appropriate spells may be considered Cerebrant spells for this purpose." That would have saved some time T_T.

    Anyway, I don't think that having lots of spells to choose from will ever be a problem, since you need to pay a permanent (and fairly expensive--a thrid level spell costs as many points as you get for a full level up in most cases) price for each spell most will never take them, and those that do won't get more than a few.

    Also, given that dream invasion is such a widely known and versatile ability of most cosmic horrors, maybe it should have its own feat instead of being an ordinary spell. Possibilities include inflicting long-term fear or fatigue effects, dealing Wis damage, and (possibly with a second feat using the first as a prerequisite) using a person's dream of you for the Sinister Image ability; that would give you the "impossible to escape without destroying" aspect of most truly nightmarish monsters, since you could pop out of the head of anyone who's seen you as soon as they fall asleep (you should specify that the nightmare abilities only work on those who you've seen/have seen you).
    I really love the Sinister Image ability, by the way. Now I have an image of a strangely empty dungeon, with engravings and sculptures of hideous monstrosities everywhere. Occasionally one of the eyes moves. Monsters (spawn) constantly come out of those the adventurers can't see, especially in areas the heroes think they've cleared out. Any time someone is left alone, they disappear (possibly having time for one scream) and the nearby wall looks strangely contented...

    As a side note, I don't think that the class really needs much in the way of epic progression. Horror means that every epic level gives you three times as many points as previously, most of the limits scale up with level nicely, and between Sinister Image and the variability of all your features there's more than enough flexibility. I certainly wouldn't say no to epic aberrant feats, but that shouldn't be a priority.

    Final Edit (I hope): My 2 cents on the poison issue. Add the following augments to spikes (requiring hollow spikes first):

    Weakening Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Str.

    Paralytic Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Dex.

    Deadly Spikes (cost 8)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Con.

    Mind Numbing Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Int.

    Hallucinogenic Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Wis.

    Disfiguring Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Cha.

    Powerful Venom (cost 6 for Deadly Spikes, 3 for all others)-increases the ability score damage of your poison by 1 die type (1->1d2->1d3->1d4->1d6, etc).

    Virulent Venom (cost 6 for Deadly Spikes, 3 for all others)-increases the save DC of your poison by 2, to a maximum of 10+Class Level.

    This way, you can have all the versatility you want with your poisons and not rely on getting them from others (what happens to the stored dose if you remove the spikes it's held in? Most things are immune to their own poison, so you'd need to hold the same form until your next encounter to use it), but hopefully not overpower anything since it's not available until level 10 and it's expensive to deal a lot of damage, especially to Con.

    I'll add my vote to those in favor of making a ranged augment for the Spikes, since ranged combat and ethereal creatures are this classes main weaknesses. Speaking of which, something needs to be done to affect ethereal creatures. Maybe you can spend 10ft of Strange Movement to exist simultaneously in the Material and Ethereal planes, simultaneously affecting and being affected by both? There should be a duration on that, but I have not idea what it should be... too short and you burn all your strange movement in one encounter. I'd guess somewhere between 1min/Cha bonus and all day, but it's up to you (it you even include it).
    Last edited by Sindri; 2010-11-18 at 08:13 PM.
    Originally Posted by Cheesegear
    Mark Twain: Dance like you have Greater Invisiibility, sing like you're Silenced. Love like you've never taken hit point damage and live like you've been Plane Shifted to Celestia.


  2. - Top - End - #422
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Owrtho's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
    Still, it doesn't make much sense for a Colossal(+?) creature to still have their ordinary human strength and con. Maybe a +2 str or +1 con per 4 points as a flesh augment? Damage-wise that would be about half the energy secretions, but it would also allow better carrying/lifting, bashing through objects, etc. Maybe you could put limits on it based on size to avoid cheeze; for example maybe you can't add more than +8 to Str or +4 to con per size increase or something. Or maybe "Muscular Tentacle" and "Nimble Tentacle" augments (and equivalents for limbs) that only give the bonus for that feature, to avoid cheesiness while still allowing the capability. Just a thought.
    Currently you can make a Puppet with a Str of 40+, but the colossal tentacled beast controlling it is still stuck with 3-18 without outside enhancement, which typically requires either keeping humanoid form so that items fit you, multiclassing, or having a friend buff you.
    That is a good point. I may look into something that improves strength, but it is less of a focus at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
    (not actually a continuation of the previous points, but I didn't want to double-post) Some possible additions to the spell list for the Cerebrant Horror feat:
    Animate Objects (level 6, allows for making the terrain attack your opponents, something that several cosmic horrors are known for)
    Antimagic Field (level 6 or 8, would represent altering reality in the area to disrupt normal spells)
    Augery (level 2, represents limited insight into the function of the multiverse due to connection to things man was not meant to know)
    Bestow Curse (level 3 or 4, works best for those who took this class as the result of a curse of corruption, and represents spreading it to others)
    Black Tentacles (level 4, possibly like a more limited version of Corrupting Land)
    Crushing Despair (level 3 or 4)
    Dream (level 5, the dream invasion ability of many horrors)
    Earthquake (level 7 or 8, continues the "using terrain to kill you" course)
    Entangle (level 1, like a very low level Corrupting Land)
    Enthrall (level 2, represents the horrible fascination effect of some cosmic horrors)
    Entropic Shield (level 1, represents bending of reality to make opponents attacks fail)
    Misdirection/Nondetection/False Vision/Screen (level 2, 4, 5, and 7 or 8, represents the inherent mystery of creatures connected to the Far Realm by disrupting scrying, assuming you can't or don't want to use Sinister Image to eat anyone who scrys you)
    Feeblemind (level 5, allows you to reduce powerful but logical mages to gibbering drooling fools when they look at you)
    Globe of Invulnerability (and Lesser version, levels 6 and 4, altering reality to disrupt normal spells)
    Hallucinatory Terrain/Mirage Arcana (level 4 and 5, altering people's perceptions of their surroundings to screw with them)
    Hideous Laughter (level 1 or 2, more madness-inducing options)
    Lesser Confusion/Confusion/Insanity (level 1, 3 or 4, and 7, duh)
    Suggestion/Mass Suggestion/Modify Memory (level 2 or 3, 5 or 6, and 4?, altering peoples minds to conceal your actions, influence theirs, or drive them insane)
    Nightmare (level 5, screwing with dreams)
    Phantasmal Killer/Weird (level 4 and 9, scaring people to death)
    Reverse Gravity (level 7 or 8, altering reality to mess with people)

    ...I just realized that this could all be fixed with the line "At the GM's discretion, any other thematically appropriate spells may be considered Cerebrant spells for this purpose." That would have saved some time T_T.

    Anyway, I don't think that having lots of spells to choose from will ever be a problem, since you need to pay a permanent (and fairly expensive--a thrid level spell costs as many points as you get for a full level up in most cases) price for each spell most will never take them, and those that do won't get more than a few.
    I'm actually planning to make multiple spell group feats. I'll likely make it so you only have to lose the form points for taking such a feat once though (As in if you took two of them, you'd only have to sacrifice form points for taking the first feat, though learning spells from either feat would still require a loss of form points).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
    Also, given that dream invasion is such a widely known and versatile ability of most cosmic horrors, maybe it should have its own feat instead of being an ordinary spell. Possibilities include inflicting long-term fear or fatigue effects, dealing Wis damage, and (possibly with a second feat using the first as a prerequisite) using a person's dream of you for the Sinister Image ability; that would give you the "impossible to escape without destroying" aspect of most truly nightmarish monsters, since you could pop out of the head of anyone who's seen you as soon as they fall asleep (you should specify that the nightmare abilities only work on those who you've seen/have seen you).
    I really love the Sinister Image ability, by the way. Now I have an image of a strangely empty dungeon, with engravings and sculptures of hideous monstrosities everywhere. Occasionally one of the eyes moves. Monsters (spawn) constantly come out of those the adventurers can't see, especially in areas the heroes think they've cleared out. Any time someone is left alone, they disappear (possibly having time for one scream) and the nearby wall looks strangely contented...
    I actually plan on making a dream based spell feat similar t celebrant horror.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
    As a side note, I don't think that the class really needs much in the way of epic progression. Horror means that every epic level gives you three times as many points as previously, most of the limits scale up with level nicely, and between Sinister Image and the variability of all your features there's more than enough flexibility. I certainly wouldn't say no to epic aberrant feats, but that shouldn't be a priority.
    Well, I may make a few epic abilities, but I think mainly I'll just have it grant bonus aberrant feats and make some epic feats. For example I have an idea for a pair that let you sense when people say your name and their location (with the choice of momentarily viewing them), and the second lets you use your strange movement to move to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
    My 2 cents on the poison issue. Add the following augments to spikes (requiring hollow spikes first):

    Weakening Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Str.

    Paralytic Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Dex.

    Deadly Spikes (cost 8)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Con.

    Mind Numbing Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Int.

    Hallucinogenic Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Wis.

    Disfiguring Spikes (cost 4)-adds poison to your hollow spikes, Fort save DC = 10+[class level/2]+[Con modifier], initial and secondary damage 1 Cha.

    Powerful Venom (cost 6 for Deadly Spikes, 3 for all others)-increases the ability score damage of your poison by 1 die type (1->1d2->1d3->1d4->1d6, etc).

    Virulent Venom (cost 6 for Deadly Spikes, 3 for all others)-increases the save DC of your poison by 2, to a maximum of 10+Class Level.

    This way, you can have all the versatility you want with your poisons and not rely on getting them from others (what happens to the stored dose if you remove the spikes it's held in? Most things are immune to their own poison, so you'd need to hold the same form until your next encounter to use it), but hopefully not overpower anything since it's not available until level 10 and it's expensive to deal a lot of damage, especially to Con.
    I had been planning on having both types of poison. The hollow spike would allow you exotic ones though, while the ozodrin would naturally only have more basic ones. Also hollow spike would hold doses even if you changed to your worldly guise, though not if you removed the feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
    I'll add my vote to those in favor of making a ranged augment for the Spikes, since ranged combat and ethereal creatures are this classes main weaknesses. Speaking of which, something needs to be done to affect ethereal creatures. Maybe you can spend 10ft of Strange Movement to exist simultaneously in the Material and Ethereal planes, simultaneously affecting and being affected by both? There should be a duration on that, but I have not idea what it should be... too short and you burn all your strange movement in one encounter. I'd guess somewhere between 1min/Cha bonus and all day, but it's up to you (it you even include it).
    I am planning to add projectile spikes. I'll note though ethereal creatures aren't that notable of a threat. After reaching level 6, you can just spend 2 form points and give up a +1 to attack to give any of your features ghost touch via the enchanted ______ augments. As such the ozodrin could actually be considered better equipped to fight ethereal than most classes, as it need not rely on equipment or limited spells.

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  3. - Top - End - #423
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    After reaching level 6, you can just spend 2 form points and give up a +1 to attack to give any of your features ghost touch via the enchanted ______ augments. As such the ozodrin could actually be considered better equipped to fight ethereal than most classes, as it need not rely on equipment or limited spells.

    Owrtho
    Right, forgot about that momentarily. Never mind.
    Originally Posted by Cheesegear
    Mark Twain: Dance like you have Greater Invisiibility, sing like you're Silenced. Love like you've never taken hit point damage and live like you've been Plane Shifted to Celestia.


  4. - Top - End - #424
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    When you use the spraying mouth augment is it's range based on the total spitting range (10 x range increment)? or is it just based off of a single range increment?

  5. - Top - End - #425
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    When you use the spraying mouth augment is it's range based on the total spitting range (10 x range increment)? or is it just based off of a single range increment?
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  6. - Top - End - #426
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    It would be a single range increment. I should likely add that upon updating with spikes.

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  7. - Top - End - #427
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    lol, I asked the same question during the rewrite. When are you going to post that, btw?
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  8. - Top - End - #428
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Owrtho's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I plan to post it once the spikes fixed for it (which by the way will be obtained at level 7). Also, the updated spike may be found below.

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    Spike: Cost - 1
    Appearance: You have a spike growing out of you.
    Required Level: 7
    Benefits: You grow a spike or group of spikes somewhere on you. Spikes always start out fine sized before augments and deal 1 piercing damage (see armor spike damage table for other sizes). When grappling, you may only have one spike affect the grappled creature each round, though you may choose a different spike each round. Unlike most features, you may also apply the spike feature to tentacles, limbs, and fins (only one spike may be applied to a single such feature). If you do, that feature adds the spikes damage onto its own when it deals damage (if it lacks an attack it gains a secondary sting natural attack that deals the spike's damage). If a spike is added to a stomach, the stomach is treated as having caltrops that deal the spikes damage in one square (if the formed stomach augment is applied), or if the formed stomach augment is not applied it gains a secondary natural attack against a single creature inside it per spike dealing the smallest spike's damage.
    Special: If you have the Aberrant feat Darkspawn, you may choose to exchange the spikes granted from itto gain one additional form point + 1 per size category larger than fine they are. You may also use this feature before level 7 if you have the Darkspawn feat, but may not use its augments other than Large Spike (and only up to the size of the spikes Darkspawn would grant) until reaching level 7. The darkspawn feat also removes the size limit of the large spike augment.
    Augments:
    Large Spike: Additional cost 4
    The spike counts as a size category larger. You may apply this augment to the same spike multiple times to a maximum size of colossal. The effects stack.

    Multiple Spikes: Additional cost 1
    Requires Large Spike: Instead of one large spike you have multiple smaller ones. The spike counts as a size category smaller, and gains +1 to damage. You may apply this augment to the same spike up to as many times as large spike had been applied to it.

    Horn: Additional cost 2
    Requires Spike be at least as large as one size category less than you, and that it not be placed on a feature: Instead of acting as armor spikes, this spike instead grants a primary gore attack. A medium horn deals 1d8 damage (use standard table to adjust for size).

    Enchanted Spike: Additional cost X
    Required Level 6: You may exchange an amount of the enhancement bonus to the spike's attack granted by the unearthly power ability for an enchantment that counts as an enhancement of that amount. This amount may not exceed 1/3 your class level rounded down - 1. This costs twice amount of the enhancement bonus being traded. You may add this multiple times to the same limb. The effects stack.

    Throwing Spikes: Additional cost 3
    Required Level 8: These spikes are capable of being launched from your body. They gain a ranged natural attack dealing damage as normal. They have a range increment of 40 feet for a medium sized ozodrin (this range increases by 5 for every size larger than medium the ozodrin is than medium, and decreases by 5 for every size smaller than medium). Once launched, the spike may no longer be used or deal damage until a standard action is spent to regrow them. They may be regrown as part of a full attack counting toward the ozodrin's attack limit for the round.

    Longshot Spikes: Additional cost 2
    Requires Level 8 and Throwing Spikes: Increase the range increment of the spikes by 10 feet. This augment may be added to the same spikes multiple times. The effects stack.

    Quickfire Spikes: Additional cost 1
    Requires Level 8, Throwing Spikes, and Multiple Spikes: By taking a -1 penalty to damage when firing the spikes, you may regrow it as a swift action rather than a standard action. In addition it would not count toward your attacks for the round to regrow it during a full attack.

    Twisting Spike: Additional cost 2
    Required Level 9: This spike is able to twist or spin. This allows it to ignore a point of DR or Hardness equal to the the number of times added + Spike size above tiny. If added to a digging fin, allows you to dig through material with a hardness of less than that which the spike can ignore as if it were normal ground. This augment may be added to the same spike multiple times. Each time it increases the amount of DR or hardness it can ignore by 1.

    Hollow Spike: Additional cost 5
    Requires level 10: Any time you would make an initial save against a disease poison, you may choose to make a second save at a -3 penalty, regardless of whether you pass the first save or not (you may not do this for more than one hollow spike at a time). If you fail this second save, you are affected even if you passed the first save. If you succeed, this spike gains a single dose of that disease or poison. This spike may only hold a single dose at a time. Any time you would deal damage with this spike while it contains a dose, you may choose to inject the dose into the target. If you do so they are treated as if the initial source that affected you were affecting them. Doing so uses up the dose A hollow spike may hold a dose for any duration of time, even if the ozodrin changes its form, provided it does not remove the hollow spike feature from its build. You may eject the contents of a hollow spike harmlessly as a move action.

    Fillable Spike: Additional cost 2
    Requires level 10 and Hollow Spike: If you knowingly consume a poison or disease with the intent of using this ability, you may have it provide this spike with a dose without making saves. The consumed substance does not count toward eating or drinking.

    Weakening Spike*: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Weakening Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of 1 Str damage.

    Paralytic Spike*: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Paralytic Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of 1 Dex damage.

    Mind Numbing Spike*: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Mind Numbing Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of 1 Int damage.

    Hallucinogenic Spike*: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Hallucinogenic Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of 1 Wis damage.

    Disfiguring Spike*: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Disfiguring Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of 1 Cha damage.

    Deadly Spike*: Additional cost 6
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Deadly Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of 1 Con damage.

    Rapid Venom: Additional cost 2
    Requires level 12 and one of the * Spike augments: The venom the spike can produce is quick acting. The initial damage is increased by 1. This augment may be added multiple times to the same spike. Each time you may have it affect a different venom the spike may produce, or have it stack with an already affected venom. If used with the deadly spike augment it costs an additional 2 form points.

    Virulent Venom: Additional cost 2
    Requires level 12 and one of the * Spike augments: The save DC of one of the poisons this spike can produce is increased by 2, to a maximum of 10+Class Level. This augment may be added multiple times to the same spike. Each time you may have it affect a different venom the spike may produce, or have it stack with an already affected venom. If used with the deadly spike augment it costs an additional 1 form points.

    Potent Venom: Additional cost 1
    Requires level 12 and Rapid Venom: The potency of the venom this spike can produce persists. The secondary damage is increased by 1. This cannot increase the secondary damage above the initial damage. This augment may be added multiple times to the same spike. Each time you may have it affect a different venom the spike may produce, or have it stack with an already affected venom. If used with the deadly spike augment it costs an additional form point.

    Chambered Spike: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 13 and Hollow Spike: This spike has multiple chambers in which the it can hold venoms and poisons. It can hold an additional dose at any given time. However the save DCs of a dose from this spike is decreased by 2. You may only eject one dose from this spike at a time. You may add this augment to the same spike multiple times. The effects stack.


    Owrtho
    Last edited by Owrtho; 2010-11-21 at 02:17 AM.
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    [class]Ozodrin: A class to play as an eldritch horror.
    other hombrew

  9. - Top - End - #429
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    wow, that's alot of text... I guess I've got more work to do then. I'm off work (at my actual job ) on tuesday, I'll do it then. I've picked up some more hours at work and I'm trying to help my younger brother make an adventure for his DMing debut next weekend, so my time is a going to be a little limited this week, unfortunately. I'll do my best though.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    A few thoughts about the spikes.
    Would it make sense to reduce the cost of the secondary damage boost and maybe raise the cap? My reasoning is: secondary damage doesn't Kick in until a minute later and how many fights are going to last a minute at level twelve. That said you might want to take the suggestion with a grain of salt, I've never been fond of the way poison works (secondary damage makes no sense and it's much more useful for DMs).

    Might it be worth letting an ozodrin with hollow spikes automatically fill them with a poison it has (either by buying a vial of the stuff or producing it naturally) without having to make the saves? Also what happens if you fail the first save and pass the second?

    Lastly, would the multiple spike augment affect the throwing spike augment? It seems like it would change it from an arrow to a shotgun or machine gun type deal or let you attack/fire again with out needing to regrow the spike (albeit at less damage).

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Epsilon Rose View Post
    A few thoughts about the spikes.
    Would it make sense to reduce the cost of the secondary damage boost and maybe raise the cap? My reasoning is: secondary damage doesn't Kick in until a minute later and how many fights are going to last a minute at level twelve. That said you might want to take the suggestion with a grain of salt, I've never been fond of the way poison works (secondary damage makes no sense and it's much more useful for DMs).

    Might it be worth letting an ozodrin with hollow spikes automatically fill them with a poison it has (either by buying a vial of the stuff or producing it naturally) without having to make the saves? Also what happens if you fail the first save and pass the second?

    Lastly, would the multiple spike augment affect the throwing spike augment? It seems like it would change it from an arrow to a shotgun or machine gun type deal or let you attack/fire again with out needing to regrow the spike (albeit at less damage).
    Good point on the secondary damage increase. I'd not realized it was every minute and assumed it was every round. On the automatic filling, I might make that an augment, as the spikes are designed to receive poison from the base, and eject it from the front. As for if you fail the first save and pass the second, you end up poisoned, but you managed to get a dose in your spike.

    On the throwing spike, you would end up throwing all of them (making it like a shotgun shot). Might make an augment to perform it faster.

    Also two new spike augments.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Good point on the secondary damage increase. I'd not realized it was every minute and assumed it was every round.
    Owrtho
    I don't think it's even that good. The way I'm reading the rule it only happens once, one minute later. Not every minute.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    This class is quite awesome if only for the versatility of the forms, I'm using a cohort with this clas in an ongoing evil campaign, so far i have had no complaints from other players (seeing as he's saved them from a bandit ambush, they've seen his usefulness.) on a side note, are the images from an anime or something? I've searched on the web, but I haven't found anything for the source.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    So, Owrtho, when are you moving the Darkspawn feat and the spine feature to the first page?
    Last edited by InfiniteNothing; 2010-11-22 at 06:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurosawa View Post
    This class is quite awesome if only for the versatility of the forms, I'm using a cohort with this clas in an ongoing evil campaign, so far i have had no complaints from other players (seeing as he's saved them from a bandit ambush, they've seen his usefulness.) on a side note, are the images from an anime or something? I've searched on the web, but I haven't found anything for the source.
    Glad to hear you like the class. As for the images, try looking on page 4 for some discussion on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing View Post
    So, Owrtho, when are you moving the Darkspawn feat and the spine feature to the first page?
    Well, not sure about spines, but Darkspawn and Spikes have been moved to the first page (which also included some reorganizing due to character limits).

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    You has done well.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    To be honest, ability damage is annoying to run. Very, very annoying. Perhaps the 6 ability damage augments could be replaced by a single poison that simply gives a -1 to all attacks, saves and checks (cumulative)? Subtracting 1 from everything is easy for the DM, will usually matter, and would be fun for the whole party. Ability damage can become a private mini-game if you start hitting the mental stats of non-casters (usually a good plan).


    The secondary damage augment would either be removed or instead grant ability damage of a type chosen when you create the augment - few battles will actually care so this is mostly for out-of-combat poison use.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    To be honest, ability damage is annoying to run. Very, very annoying. Perhaps the 6 ability damage augments could be replaced by a single poison that simply gives a -1 to all attacks, saves and checks (cumulative)? Subtracting 1 from everything is easy for the DM, will usually matter, and would be fun for the whole party. Ability damage can become a private mini-game if you start hitting the mental stats of non-casters (usually a good plan).


    The secondary damage augment would either be removed or instead grant ability damage of a type chosen when you create the augment - few battles will actually care so this is mostly for out-of-combat poison use.
    There are other ways to just give people a -1 or -2 to most rolls (like the fear effect that goes off whenever you transform). The whole point of poison is that you can disrupt the function of a creature, causing them a variety of penalties depending on the kind of poison you use. Need to slow them down? Dex damage. Need to weaken a powerhouse or take down a small, nimble opponent quickly? Str damage. Just want to kill something as quickly and efficiently as possible? Con damage. Besides, ability damage isn't hard to run as long as you know what each ability is giving the target; Dex feeds into AC, Ref, and ranged attacks for example, so just reduce those by 1 for every 2 points of dex damage.

    Also, a 1 point debuff at 11th level, which allows a saving throw is pretty much useless, but it's hard to scale in a balanced manner.
    Last edited by Sindri; 2010-11-23 at 01:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    EDIT: misread what rapid venom did. Odd name. Anyway, post has been updated.

    Determining even vs odd is annoying. Determining special attacks, skill checks, stuff that use 1.5x a stat, remembering this guy has 3 points of damage (-2? -1) and this guy has 2 points of damage (-1). Ability damage is a neat concept with a horrible execution.

    Also, with move/swift action filling time (which I support 110%), this poison is going to be chosen ahead of time. Which pretty much means Con or Cha for most situations. Con if you only intend to deal a few points, cha if you’re going for death-by-poison. Maybe wis if you need an enemy to fail a will save.

    Even ability damage makes the math easier, but the a general -1 represents toxins fairly well IMO and I would find it considerable easier to deal with both as a DM and as a player. If you really want ability damage, hollow spike allows that. Ability damage is the basic effect of 90+% of all D&D poisons. Why not let your own feature be something more streamlined?

    As for power issues, is -1 to a stat that allows a save really much better? Some opponents have to fail 2 saves for that to have any effect at all. Assuming rapid venom the penalty toxin is not weak at all, and I think it scales better than the ability score toxin (which will either be much weaker or a very costly save-or-die in most cases).

    I've been in heavy ability damage combats. It isn't very fun to keep recalculating special attacks, spells, etc.


    On another note, the wording of the spike feature/augments is rather unwieldy. If I have the time before finals (2nd week of December), I’ll go over that.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-11-23 at 06:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    So, I had some thoughts on a couple epic feats for the Ozodrin. Just throwing this out there, hope I'm not too presumptuous to suggest these.

    Epic Farspawn (Aberrant, Epic)
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points, Charisma 18, Farspawn
    Benefit: You gain an additional 3 form points for every 2 aberrant feats you have, including this one.
    Special: You may choose this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

    Empower Feature (Aberrant, Epic)
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Strange Anatomy, Constitution 16
    Benefit: Choose one feature which you have access to. From now on, the base cost of that feature and the cost of each augment for that feature is lowered by 1, to a minimum of 1. The effects of that feature are doubled, for example, an augment that grants 1 hardness would instead grant 2, or 5 ft. of blindsight would become 10 ft. of blindsight.
    Special: You may choose this feat multiple times. Each time, you select a different feature.

    Legion of Beyond (Aberrant, Epic)
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Feature(Spawn)
    Benefit: You are more than just a single entity, you are an army of madness. You may use the fission power at will, though it has a permanent duration. Furthermore, you create a number of duplicates equal to your charisma modifier. You do still suffer the penalties if one of the duplicates dies.

    Reality Slam (Aberrant, Epic)
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Charisma 25, Feature(Tentacle)
    Benefit: You may grasp through the walls of reality and pull your targets to your waiting maw. You gain 5 ft. of reach per point of your Charisma Modifier, you attack targets with an invisible force. You may grapple targets and pull them towards you at this range.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-11-23 at 11:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Reality Slam: I like this, although the effect is a bit vague.

    Epic Farspawn: With 'Horror' that is an extra 6fp per two feats. That's a ton of bonus points. But it might be okay.

    Empower Feature: I don't like the cost reduction aspect of this feature for the same reason I was against the pre-epic version.

    Legion of Beyond: First off, the effect you described is the fission power, not fusion. I think fusion at will would be a pretty cool feat once the XP cost was removed. Unlimited fission is just insane. I have player using a homebrew class that screws around with fission and fusion, and complete copies (even with split HP) should not be taken lightly. Fission is one of the best psionic powers IMO. I'd prefer we create epic material under the assumption that people are going to try to avoid epic spellcasting abuse and the like in an attempt to prevent the game from falling apart. Gaining that many actions is OP even at epic in such a game.


    As it were, I am working on an epic level Ozodrin prestige class (or maybe just an Epic Ozodrin progression). It's pretty awesome, but I need to go back to doing homework now.

    Edit: Gah, new page. My previous post was a response to the poison debate.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-11-23 at 11:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, Epic Farspawn seems like a bit much. I do however plan to make an epic version of it though. It may just end up as farspawn without the not counting farspawn clause.

    Empower Feature doesn't quite work. For one thing, the cost reduction is rather close to a string of PRCs I already plan to do (I'm thinking 2 level PRCs, one for each feature that let you do particularly well at that feature). As for the second portion, as mentioned it could be a little confusing what it does an doesn't apply to.

    Legion of Beyond: I like the idea of it, though I'm not sure if that is the best way to do it. It might be more interesting to make it allow an empowered spawn feature. Possibly allowing more spawn to be made more cheaply, and perhaps allowing you to turn yourself into one (and if you do so you can reform from any spawn you have, thus if they are destroying you, one can escape to reform into your whole).

    Reality Slam: I rather like this one, though the wording seems it could use some work. I'd at first thought that it was saying all your attacks gained the reach bonus until I read through it again.

    Magikeeper, I look forward to seeing the class when you complete it.

    Also:
    Shunned Name (Aberrant, Epic)
    You are sensitive to your chosen name.
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Sinister Image, Charisma 23
    Benefit: You may choose a name for yourself. This name may not be a common word. Whenever someone speaks your name, you immediately sense it, knowing the direction, distance, and gaining a mental image of the speaker (though not their surroundings).

    Unspeakable Name (Aberrant, Epic)
    Your chosen name is now a part of you.
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Shunned Name, Corrupting Land, Charisma 25
    Benefit: When your chosen name is spoken, you may as an immediate action choose to move one or more of your shifting features within 5 feet per charisma modifier of the speaker, treating the area as if it is within range of your. If you choose to wait, you are unable to do so unless it is spoken again.

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    Last edited by Owrtho; 2010-11-23 at 11:55 PM.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Any comments on the poison debate?

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, it seems the easiest solution would just be to make another augment:

    Debilitating Spike*: Additional cost 2
    Requires level 11 and Hollow Spike: Your hollow spike is capable of producing its own venom. As a move action you may fill it with a dose of Disfiguring Venom. This venom requires a Fort save (DC = 10+ half class level + Con modifier) and has an initial and secondary damage of -1 penalty to all attacks and saves. This damage may be healed by anything that can heal ability damage, and recovers at a rate of 1 point per day.

    Then people who want to avoid ability damage can just use that one instead or the other ones, while people who want the more normal poison can use the other augments.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Right, while Owrtho's solution probably fixes Magikeeper's problem, I'd like to toss in my own two cents.

    I'll start by saying that I used to play as a character who used a lot of poison and another who did a lot of ability damage.

    First things first, an attack and saving throw penalty is a far cry from stat damage. For starters it does almost nothing to a mage, it also doesn't really shut people down in quite the same way. The penalty thing makes it easier for your mage to nuke them and helps your fighter survive a bit better, but it's not making it easier for the melee types to do damage and it's not really ending the fight much quicker unless you're relying on a wizard to end it (which is kinda boring) where as ten points of dex damage and you've brought down almost any non-homebrew true dragon as permanently as you want and the entire time you've been making it easier to hit.

    That said there are some problems with the poison augments. See the thing is 1 point of stat damage is kinda worthless, you're only actually effecting them every two hits (and two failed saves) and you're not really doing that much, even then, so almost any one who's going to use these is going to have to take enhancements to increase the strength and dc. At that point it's more cost effective (and cheaper [they're not the same thing]) to simply enchant the thing (or even buy another feature and enchant that).
    Another problem (though it's more of a problem with poison in general and might not warrant fixing because of that) is that as you level up (or face undead and constructs) more and more things gain immunity to poison so the people who could actually spend enough points to make this effective probably won't have much use for it (unless they're fighting dragons) so it might be worth while to add an augment that lets you bypass immunity (or specialize it for a species that's normally immune).
    Lastly, why is the save dc con based? I don't think any of the other dcs are and that's a rather annoying bit of mad.

    Umm, yeah... I think that's all.
    P.s. it's really not that hard to keep track of stat damage, especially if it's done in even intervals which is particularly easy for this class since you're doing flat damage not a d-something role (and there's really no good reason to do an odd amount of damage).

    P.P.S. this was written at 2:50 AM and as such may have an unusually high concentration of bad ideas and typos. I apologize for this.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Epsilon Rose View Post
    First things first, an attack and saving throw penalty is a far cry from stat damage...
    That was my primary point here. There are plenty of things that give a generic penalty to a few rolls; ability damage is something completely different with many far-reaching effects.

    That said there are some problems with the poison augments. See the thing is 1 point of stat damage is kinda worthless... so almost any one who's going to use these is going to have to take enhancements to increase the strength and dc.
    I was thinking about that, and there are a few problems in my mind. A small amount of poison damage is useless, but a lot at once is extraordinarily powerful. A flat 1d6 or something would avoid both problems, but loses the versatility that's central to the class. My personal preference would be an exponential cost, making a 1 point poison almost free, a moderate poison moderately expensive, and a save-or-die incredibly expensive, preventing it from being overused. This might be to complex for some though; the rest of the D&D rules are careful to avoid exponents.

    Another problem...[lots of things that would take a lot of space to repeat]
    On one hand, poisoning those immune to poison would be very powerful, and has little precedence elsewhere. On the other hand, things like positoxins are cannon, and it makes sense for specialized poisons to affect plants, for example, so maybe you could double the cost to make it affect a certain type that's normally immune? Poisoning a construct doesn't really make sense (though maybe you could use something that interferes with the elemental spirit within?), and items or spells that specifically protect against poison should probably still function, but in general this would work.

    Lastly, why is the save dc con based? I don't think any of the other dcs are and that's a rather annoying bit of mad.
    All natural poisons are DC 10 + (HD/2) + (Con bonus). There's no reason that the ozodrin need to stick to the pattern, but there isn't really any reason not to, especially since you shouldn't be using Con as a dump stat anyway (melee class, no armor, no DR or energy resistance until 12th level...you need all the HP you can get).
    Originally Posted by Cheesegear
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    On the scaling of poisons: Why not have a "This augment costs 1 additional form point to apply per two <name of this augment> augments already applied to the spike" for the augments that increase the amount of damage? With a base cost of (1) that would be 12fp for +6 damage, and 30fp for +10 damage. Change it to "per three" and the cost is 9fp for +6 damage and 22fp for +10 damage. "per four" would be 8fp for +6 and 18fp for +10. "Per five" would be 7fp for +6, 15fp for +10, 30fp for +15, 50fp for +20.

    As for the epic class/progression, here is what I have so far. There are some wording issues, and I’m not sure what else I could do with dreamscape augments. Also, I keep moving around the exact order of the abilities. The Cosmic Horror name is just a placeholder:
    Spoiler
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    Cosmic Horror
    1. Myrad Forms(1), Form Points, Features
    2. Spatial Perception, Mastery of Space
    3. Feature(Dreamscape)
    4. Bonus Aberrant Feat
    5. Myrad Forms(2)
    6. Feature (Entity)
    7. Seamless Perception, Mastery of Time
    8. Bonus Aberrant Feat
    9. Encroaching Image, Myrad Forms(3)
    10. Endless

    Form Points(Ex): A Cosmic Horror gains 10 form points per class level that can be spent on features. These form points are not doubled by the “Horror” ability of the Ozodrin Class. If this becomes a prestige class then I'd be attempting to help other ozodrin catch up with Horror ozodrin.

    Features(Ex):A Cosmic Horror's class levels stack with its ozodrin levels for determining what features and augments it has access to, as well as the number of feature granted attacks it can make in a round. In addition it gain two features not normally available to the ozodrin (the dreamscape and the Entity features). Details spoiled below.

    Spoiler
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    Dreamscape: Cost - 20
    Appearance: Creatures can literally enter your imagination.
    Required Level: 3
    Benefits: For the purpose of this feature, whatever reality/cosmetology your campaign has will be referred to as “reality prime”.
    Any victim you successfully devour “wakes up” in a reality of your own creation. This reality can in no way, shape, or form alter reality prime. Anything that enters your reality, is altered, and then leaves has their original state restored as though it were just a dream. You can otherwise do whatever you desire within your imaginary reality with the only restriction being what you know and the rate at which you perceive time. For example, a deity killing sword that works in your imagination is unlikely to work when you find a blacksmith to re-create that sword in reality prime. Basically, this is similar to being a DM within someone else’s D&D game. A soul within your reality cannot be released by anything short of the interference of a deity in reality prime. You may, however, return any such soul to reality prime as a free action. You cannot control how time works in your dreamscape.
    Special: Removing this feature does not destroy the dreamscape if any entities from reality prime exist within it. However, you have no power over the created dreamscape until you reform this feature for that dreamscape. A soul trapped within such a dreamscape can be freed by a wish, miracle, or true resurrection effect cast from reality prime. You can have more than one dreamscape at a time. All dreamscape augments may be added or removed to pre-existing dreamscapes of your creation.

    Augments:
    Spoiler
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    Augments:
    Nightmare Gateway Additional cost 5
    Required Feature(Stomach): You can create a fleshy door to your dreamscape along the walls of your stomach. From the outside the door appears to lead to nothingness, although anyone who enters is appears wherever you want in your dreamscape. The door is 5ft by 5ft, although multiple doors can be combined together to form one larger door. A creature cannot simply fall through the door – it must pass into the unknown of its own accord or be dragged/pushed through. This gateway is one-way, and does not even exist within your dreamscape. You may return any creature or object that enters your dreamscape this way to reality prime as a free action, and they appear in front of the Nightmare Gateway exactly the same as they were when first entering your dreamscape. Plane Shift and other transportation effects do not help a creature escape from your dreamscape.

    Engulfing Cosmos Additional cost 15
    Required level 4: Any creature that dies inside your stomach or within 5ft of you may have their soul pulled into your dreamscape should you so desire it. This includes parts of ‘you’ defined by sinister image. You may apply this augment multiple times to the same dreamscape, increasing the range by 5ft each time after the first. A creature killed by one of your natural weapons is considered to have been within 5ft of “you”.

    Soul String Additional cost 3
    Required level 5 and Engulfing Cosmos: Any creature who escapes a dreamscape with this augment can be pulled into any dreamscape with this augment you posses, even if the original dreamscape is no longer under your control. The creature must be within range of your engulfing cosmos augment to be pulled into a dreamscape, and they may make a will save to resist the effect (DC 10 + ½ your level in classes that grant features + your charisma modifier). Using augment is a swift action. Creatures created via the entity feature automatically fail their saves.
    special: Applying this augment to a pre-existing dreamscape has no effect on creatures that escaped the dreamscape before this feature was applied (The effect is not retroactive).

    Temporal Fantasy Additional cost 1
    Required level 7: You have complete control over the time of your dreamscape, allowing it to move as fast or slow as you desire. Abilities/effects from reality prime continue to work based off of reality prime’s time rate. For example, fast healing 5 from reality prime will heal 5 damage per reality prime round, even if that is the equivalent of 700 years in your dreamscape, and casting a spell would typically involve a reality prime standard action. Most cosmic horrors grant “visitors” imaginary versions of their reality prime abilities.

    Exit Additional cost 4
    Required level 9: You may pull yourself into the dreamscape as a full round action. You may still interact with the world outside via Sinister/Encroaching Image, although you are effected by reality prime rules while doing so. For example, even if you grant yourself infinite form points within your reality you must still obey your reality prime limits while interacting with reality prime. If someone hits you with a finger of death in reality prime, no imaginary powers will save you (although an item/effect hailing from reality prime could). This is considered an extraordinary ability. Many Cosmic Horrors of this caliber abandon reality prime altogether, choosing to act as overdeities in realms of their own creation.


    Entity: Cost - X
    Appearance: You can bring forth the denizens of your imagination into reality prime.
    <Under Construction>



    Myrad Forms(Su): A Cosmic horror can have more than one “true form”. Whenever the cosmic horror enters its “true nature” via its manifest form ability it chooses which of its forms to take. A cosmic horror can use manifest form while already manifesting its true nature to take another form instead. The horror gains 1 such extra form at 1st level and every 4 class levels thereafter. A Cosmic Horror’s class levels stack with its ozodrin levels for determining the effects of its manifest form ability.

    Spatial Perception(Ex): A 2nd level cosmic horror can see the destinations and/or origins of any teleportation effect within its line-of-sight. This is similar to looking through an open window. It may treat the other end of the effect as being within its line-of-sight and line-of-effect for the purposes of spells and abilities (although taking advantage of an instantaneous teleportation effect would require a held or immediate action).

    Mastery of Space(Ex): A 2nd level cosmic horror may spend 20ft of its strange movement to transport itself anywhere within its line-of-sight as a move action. Once per minute a cosmic horror may spend 40ft of its strange movement to instead use this ability as a swift or immediate action. This ability otherwise functions as strange movement. A cosmic horror with this ability may count each of its class levels as two Ozodrin class levels for the purposes of the Strange Movement ability.

    Seamless Perception(EX): A 7th level cosmic horror’s perception of time is seamless and unbroken, allowing it to properly experience the eternity between each moment. Some cosmic horrors glance over this eternity in order to maintain a shred of their past humanity, but even they will notice something out of place. For example, the cosmic horror could observe the actions of a creature benefitting from time stop. This ability renders the cosmic horror immune to being surprised or flat-footed, as even “instantaneous” effects are not quite instantaneous to the cosmic horror. This ability does not allow the cosmic horror to perform actions any faster than normal, even purely mental ones. Perceiving eternity is not the same as being able to act with such speed.

    Mastery of Time(Su): A 7th level cosmic horror can spend 80ft worth of its strange movement ability to act for one round of apparent time as though effected by time stop. This ability can be used at any time and does not require an action, although it can only be used once per round. A cosmic horror can use this ability to attack another creature under the effects of a time stop type effect, or even to interact with a creature in a faster time stream (even if the other creature used its time related ability first).

    Encroaching Image(Su): The Cosmic Horror’s Sinister Image ability improves. Any sentient creature that sees a part of the Cosmic Horror is treated as though it were a scrying effect directed at the Cosmic Horror (allowing the Cosmic Horror to move shifting features within 5ft of it) This effect lasts for 1 hour per Cosmic Horror class level. If the Cosmic Horror does not possess Sinister Image this ability grants it instead of the above effect (A Cosmic Horror that later gains Sinister Image from another class instead gains encroaching image).

    Endless(Ex): The Cosmic Horror may end its existence in reality prime to become an imaginary denizen of any dreamscape it has ever created. This ability does not take an action, can never be lost, and can be used even if the Cosmic Horror is unable to use actions or even think (for example, if the Cosmic Horror is dead or has had its soul erased by a deity). A Cosmic Horror that uses this ability can no longer interact with reality prime, although it has absolute power within its dreamscape. A wish, miracle, or true resurrection effect cast upon any object in reality prime that would have counted as the Cosmic Horror via its sinister image ability restores all of Cosmic Horror’s reality prime abilities and status as a creature from its original reality. Such a Cosmic Horror may return may ignore any level loss, death, soul destruction, etc that may have occurred up to 10 minutes before it used this ability. A denizen of reality prime can also revive the Cosmic Horror by dipping the object in the blood of a dead deity.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-11-25 at 04:36 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #448
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    So, I really like your proposed epic progression, but I think it needs cleaning up. Here some suggestions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Form Points(Ex): A Cosmic Horror gains 10 form points per class level that can be spent on features. These form points are not doubled by the “Horror” ability of the Ozodrin Class. If this becomes a prestige class then I'd be attempting to help other ozodrin catch up with Horror ozodrin.
    This is reasonable. Sounds good to me.
    Features(Ex):A Cosmic Horror's class levels stack with its ozodrin levels for determining what features and augments it has access to, as well as the number of feature granted attacks it can make in a round. In addition it gain two features not normally available to the ozodrin (the dreamscape and the Entity features). Details spoiled below.
    I mean, this clearly needs to be a prestige class, not an actual Ozodrin progression. Well, in my mind. An Epic prestige class.

    For the purpose of this feature, whatever reality/cosmetology your campaign has will be referred to as “reality prime”.
    Any victim you successfully devour “wakes up” in a reality of your own creation. This reality can in no way, shape, or form alter reality prime. Anything that enters your reality, is altered, and then leaves has their original state restored as though it were just a dream. You can otherwise do whatever you desire within your imaginary reality with the only restriction being what you know and the rate at which you perceive time. For example, a deity killing sword that works in your imagination is unlikely to work when you find a blacksmith to re-create that sword in reality prime. Basically, this is similar to being a DM within someone else’s D&D game. A soul within your reality cannot be released by anything short of the interference of a deity in reality prime. You may, however, return any such soul to reality prime as a free action. You cannot control how time works in your dreamscape.
    Special: Removing this feature does not destroy the dreamscape if any entities from reality prime exist within it. However, you have no power over the created dreamscape until you reform this feature for that dreamscape. A soul trapped within such a dreamscape can be freed by a wish, miracle, or true resurrection effect cast from reality prime. You can have more than one dreamscape at a time. All dreamscape augments may be added or removed to pre-existing dreamscapes of your creation.
    I'm trying to think, but this seems either useless or abuseable. Couldn't you use your powers in dreamscape to make an item which lets you use your dreamscape powers on reality prime, if you can do anything? Or, it could be useless, if you can in no way effect Reality Prime, what's the point of having it in the first place?

    Don't get me wrong, this is a super cool idea, I just think the mechanics need cleaning up a little. But I love it.

    Nightmare Gateway Additional cost 5
    Required Feature(Stomach): You can create a fleshy door to your dreamscape along the walls of your stomach. From the outside the door appears to lead to nothingness, although anyone who enters is appears wherever you want in your dreamscape. The door is 5ft by 5ft, although multiple doors can be combined together to form one larger door. A creature cannot simply fall through the door – it must pass into the unknown of its own accord or be dragged/pushed through. This gateway is one-way, and does not even exist within your dreamscape. You may return any creature or object that enters your dreamscape this way to reality prime as a free action, and they appear in front of the Nightmare Gateway exactly the same as they were when first entering your dreamscape. Plane Shift and other transportation effects do not help a creature escape from your dreamscape.
    I love it! Epic!
    Engulfing Cosmos Additional cost 15
    Required level 4: Any creature that dies inside your stomach or within 5ft of you may have their soul pulled into your dreamscape should you so desire it. This includes parts of ‘you’ defined by sinister image. You may apply this augment multiple times to the same dreamscape, increasing the range by 5ft each time after the first. A creature killed by one of your natural weapons is considered to have been within 5ft of “you”.
    Superb. Can you... bring back a creature in this way? Could you suck up someone's soul, use your dreamscape powers to bend them to your will, and then deposit them outside a nightmare gateway, again among the living?
    Soul String Additional cost 3
    Required level 5 and Engulfing Cosmos: Any creature who escapes a dreamscape with this augment can be pulled into any dreamscape with this augment you posses, even if the original dreamscape is no longer under your control. The creature must be within range of your engulfing cosmos augment to be pulled into a dreamscape, and they may make a will save to resist the effect (DC 10 + ½ your level in classes that grant features + your charisma modifier). Using augment is a swift action. Creatures created via the entity feature automatically fail their saves.
    special: Applying this augment to a pre-existing dreamscape has no effect on creatures that escaped the dreamscape before this feature was applied (The effect is not retroactive).
    Sweeeeet. Fun. Great augment. But why must they be in range of your Engulfing Cosmos?

    Actually, wait, no, that makes sense. Would be even cooler with Owrtho's unspeakable name feats. Someone speaks your name, and a toadie near them is pulled into your Dreamscape.
    Temporal Fantasy Additional cost 1
    Required level 7: You have complete control over the time of your dreamscape, allowing it to move as fast or slow as you desire. Abilities/effects from reality prime continue to work based off of reality prime’s time rate. For example, fast healing 5 from reality prime will heal 5 damage per reality prime round, even if that is the equivalent of 700 years in your dreamscape, and casting a spell would typically involve a reality prime standard action. Most cosmic horrors grant “visitors” imaginary versions of their reality prime abilities.
    Seems useless. If one round = 500 years, and I have fast healing 5, then I have to wait 100 years to heal 1 HP? If you can manipulate time, do it for real, not halfway.
    Exit Additional cost 4
    Required level 9: You may pull yourself into the dreamscape as a full round action. You may still interact with the world outside via Sinister/Encroaching Image, although you are effected by reality prime rules while doing so. For example, even if you grant yourself infinite form points within your reality you must still obey your reality prime limits while interacting with reality prime. If someone hits you with a finger of death in reality prime, no imaginary powers will save you (although an item/effect hailing from reality prime could). This is considered an extraordinary ability. Many Cosmic Horrors of this caliber abandon reality prime altogether, choosing to act as overdeities in realms of their own creation.[/spoiler]
    Very nice.
    Entity: Cost - X
    Appearance: You can bring forth the denizens of your imagination into reality prime.
    <Under Construction>
    Looking forward to seeing this.

    Myrad Forms(Su): A Cosmic horror can have more than one “true form”. Whenever the cosmic horror enters its “true nature” via its manifest form ability it chooses which of its forms to take. A cosmic horror can use manifest form while already manifesting its true nature to take another form instead. The horror gains 1 such extra form at 1st level and every 4 class levels thereafter. A Cosmic Horror’s class levels stack with its ozodrin levels for determining the effects of its manifest form ability.
    It's spelled Myriad. Otherwise, nice.
    Spatial Perception(Ex): A 2nd level cosmic horror can see the destinations and/or origins of any teleportation effect within its line-of-sight. This is similar to looking through an open window. It may treat the other end of the effect as being within its line-of-sight and line-of-effect for the purposes of spells and abilities (although taking advantage of an instantaneous teleportation effect would require a held or immediate action).
    Nice! Useful and fun.
    Mastery of Space(Ex): A 2nd level cosmic horror may spend 20ft of its strange movement to transport itself anywhere within its line-of-sight as a move action. Once per minute a cosmic horror may spend 40ft of its strange movement to instead use this ability as a swift or immediate action. This ability otherwise functions as strange movement. A cosmic horror with this ability may count each of its class levels as two Ozodrin class levels for the purposes of the Strange Movement ability.
    Great ability, I like it.
    Seamless Perception(EX): A 7th level cosmic horror’s perception of time is seamless and unbroken, allowing it to properly experience the eternity between each moment. Some cosmic horrors glance over this eternity in order to maintain a shred of their past humanity, but even they will notice something out of place. For example, the cosmic horror could observe the actions of a creature benefitting from time stop. This ability renders the cosmic horror immune to being surprised or flat-footed, as even “instantaneous” effects are not quite instantaneous to the cosmic horror. This ability does not allow the cosmic horror to perform actions any faster than normal, even purely mental ones. Perceiving eternity is not the same as being able to act with such speed.
    Fairly specific but.. okay, it's cool!
    Mastery of Time(Su): A 7th level cosmic horror can spend 80ft worth of its strange movement ability to act for one round of apparent time as though effected by time stop. This ability can be used at any time and does not require an action, although it can only be used once per round. A cosmic horror can use this ability to attack another creature under the effects of a time stop type effect, or even to interact with a creature in a faster time stream (even if the other creature used its time related ability first).
    Maybe also allow Time Regression and/or Time Hop.
    Encroaching Image(Su): The Cosmic Horror’s Sinister Image ability improves. Any sentient creature that sees a part of the Cosmic Horror is treated as though it were a scrying effect directed at the Cosmic Horror (allowing the Cosmic Horror to move shifting features within 5ft of it) This effect lasts for 1 hour per Cosmic Horror class level. If the Cosmic Horror does not possess Sinister Image this ability grants it instead of the above effect (A Cosmic Horror that later gains Sinister Image from another class instead gains encroaching image).
    I don't... understand this. I'm not sure I quite understand what it does, or why it is useful.
    Endless(Ex): The Cosmic Horror may end its existence in reality prime to become an imaginary denizen of any dreamscape it has ever created. This ability does not take an action, can never be lost, and can be used even if the Cosmic Horror is unable to use actions or even think (for example, if the Cosmic Horror is dead or has had its soul erased by a deity). A Cosmic Horror that uses this ability can no longer interact with reality prime, although it has absolute power within its dreamscape. A wish, miracle, or true resurrection effect cast upon any object in reality prime that would have counted as the Cosmic Horror via its sinister image ability restores all of Cosmic Horror’s reality prime abilities and status as a creature from its original reality. Such a Cosmic Horror may return may ignore any level loss, death, soul destruction, etc that may have occurred up to 10 minutes before it used this ability. A denizen of reality prime can also revive the Cosmic Horror by dipping the object in the blood of a dead deity.
    Also allow severed pieces of the Cosmic Horror to count as this. How cool is it to revive Cthulhu from a severed piece of tentacle. Otherwise, nifty cool.


    Overall, I love it.
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  29. - Top - End - #449
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I rather like the cosmic horror. It rather fits the idea of some terror of dreams.
    I agree that it should likely be an epic PRC, as well as most of what Magicyop said (though I agree with you on the time thing. Increased time in the dreamscape shouldn't make passive abilities faster in the reality prime).

    It does seem like the dreamscape should be able to have some form of effect though. Even if it is only the ability to affect creatures as if by nightmare, insanity, other mental things that could be caused by dreams, etc.

    The soul string seems like it could also be reduced to a cost of 1 and made so each time added, you only create one string (so would need to make one for each creature you bind with it).

    I look forward to seeing how the Entity feature turns out.
    Keep up the good work (also, let me know if you decide to post a thread for it and I'll link it in the Menacing Manor thread).

    Edit: On the poison debate. I see the point of odd values being somewhat of a hassle. Perhaps if I made poison deal 2 base and increase in increments of 1 (which would increase in price by 1 for every 2 times added to a given poison). Also could add the debilitating poison and have it increase in increments of 2 (given that it is generally weaker than stat damage).

    As for immunities, I could make an augment along the lines of specialized poison, which lets you choose a type for the poison to effect, but it loses the ability to affect other types (type chosen from a list of normally immune creatures). Likely would cost around 2 or 3.

    Owrtho
    Last edited by Owrtho; 2010-11-26 at 04:49 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #450
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Another thing, why is Engulfing Cosmos so expensive? I suggest you lower it to maybe 7 Form Points, or something, so you can get some actual range on that thing.
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