WW Central VII: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

[Saposhiente]

1. THOG SMASH OFFENSIVE AMOUNT OF BAD GRAMMAR

Villagers:[...]. Scry as Villager. [...] make everyone think that they're really the insane ones. [...]
Insane Villagers:[...]Scry as Villager until[...] Get's told they're Villagers until [...]
Jokers: [...] Scry as a random other role than Joker. Team Good. Gets told they're Villagers.
Seer: [...] Can scry correctly once per night, scries are correct. Two independent clauses were linked by a comma (bad), and other solutions were more clunky [...]
Fool:[...] Has occasional bursts of insight. Can scry randomly once per night, scries are a random other role than the actual scry result should be, except on Joker and Reaper, whom he scries correctly. [...]
Devil: [...] Can scry correctly once per night, Scries are correct. [...]
Masons:[...] Scry as Mason, knows other masons at the start.[...]
Anti-Masons: Scry as Mason until contacted, then scry as Anti-Mason. Knows other Anti-Mason's at the start.[...] Gets told they're the masons.[...]
The Reaper: [...] Scries as a random role of the opposite side of the scrier. [...]
The Spreader of Insanity: [...] Can scry once per night, but only gets told whether they are a hidden wolf or not.[...]

Moving on...
2. Nowhere does it say that Team Neutral or Team Evil get nightkills, though this is probably what you meant for. I will write the rest of this from that assumption
3. The Reaper faction is almost strictly less powerful than the wolves. Scrying as opposite of the scrier is bad (just have him scry as the neut he is), and he probably needs some other ability. Also, killing anybody to get what he needs sounds more like Team Good Vigilante than Neutral Serial Killer. Perhaps this is what you meant? Then the other stuff makes more sence
4. The Seer will be less important than you think he will be. He'll turn out just like in Buttbuttins WW (), except also with a fool role to further confuse him. He will have use, but in most cases he will be a somewhat empowered delayed Mason.
5. Wolves have too many eggs in one basket. If the Spreader is lynched D1, oops! That's all folks, good game. If he claims to be whatever and is not lynched, at night all 3 seers will scry him, and unless he manages to scry a wolf or kill a seer he's toast as a N1 Spreader of Insanity result means to a seer either a. you're the fool or b. if you kill that dude you probably win immediately, and if not then you cripple wolves permanently, with the vast majority of them thinking they're Town. Town can lynch anyone with two Guilty results upon them, because that means that at least one of the Seer and the Devil got a Guilty on him. The current system simply does not work, and there is no minor thing that will fix it and leave it similar to how it is. You could change the mechanic to be like in Buttbuttins.

[bladescape]

APART from the fact that I'm tired and my spelling is therefore rather rotten...

Evil does get a NK(But only Awakened Evil.), and the Reaper(One player) Also gets a nightkill. I'm unsure whether to have him trying to kill non-awakened or awakened evil. I'm tending towards non-awakened, as that means he'll be chasing after random villagers, and the Town don't want that. Scry could be changed, was unsure what he should scry.

The Seer is supposed to be confused. Everyone but the Baner/Reaper/Spreader are supposed to be unsure of what they are. That's the point of the game. And I never said he would be important.

I forgot to add, if the Spreader dies than one wolf gets told they're a wolf, then so on. The idea was based off Assassin's, but twisted.

I hope that clears things up?

[Duneyrr]

1. THOG SMASH OFFENSIVE AMOUNT OF BAD GRAMMAR

'Scries' is fine. If anything, 'is scried' would be even better, but this forum has it's own jargon when it deals with the seer abilities.

[Murska]

A Mason scries as a Mason.

Masons scry as Masons.

[Lady Tialait]

I was sitting around and I had a random idea.

A power role that I think would have an interesting effect on the game.


Affable Evil in a Can: Scries as Wolf, AEIAC (name needs work) is a wolf team member, who cannot vote for night kills, and their lynch vote counted until they are lynched. When they are lynched instead of leaving the game they instead change their abilities. Instead of not being able to really do anything, they gain the following abilities:

Day Baner
Double Night Kills
Seer

They may only use one of these abilities per night, and when they are lynched there is a public announcement that the AEIAC has been released.

So, what do you guys think?

[Internet Flea]

I was sitting around and I had a random idea.

A power role that I think would have an interesting effect on the game.


Affable Evil in a Can: Scries as Wolf, AEIAC (name needs work) is a wolf team member, who cannot vote for night kills, and their lynch vote counted until they are lynched. When they are lynched instead of leaving the game they instead change their abilities. Instead of not being able to really do anything, they gain the following abilities:

Day Baner
Double Night Kills
Seer

They may only use one of these abilities per night, and when they are lynched there is a public announcement that the AEIAC has been released.

So, what do you guys think?

So they can't be killed, or are they relying on their Day Bane to keep themselves alive?

I'd suggest having a pair of wolves, and when one dies the other powers up. That way the powerful wolf isn't in the open.

EDIT: Or make them a neutral immortal, and have them gain/change a random ability whenever they get lynched/nightkilled.

[Lady Tialait]

So they can't be killed, or are they relying on their Day Bane to keep themselves alive?

I'd suggest having a pair of wolves, and when one dies the other powers up. That way the powerful wolf isn't in the open.

Hmmm, so instead of the Evil in a Can, and you break the Can, have a 'sacrifice' wolf, and when that wolf is killed, another wolf gains an extra abilities.

I'm going to be toying with this.

[Internet Flea]

EDIT: Or make them a neutral immortal, and have them gain/change a random ability whenever they get lynched/nightkilled.

Called Slot Machine, or something. (Quoting because I'm slow at editing and it might get missed.)

I had an idea for a game, not that I'd want to run it. It would include unlisted players that could only talk via PMs to the listed players (probably a limited number of listed players, as well). The Seer(s) could either scry for a role, or learn the identity of an unlisted player (but he'd have to scry them by name afterward to find out their role). Unlisted players have win conditions that require talking to other players, so no winning by hiding until the game ends.

Does anyone think it could work would be fun?

[Saposhiente]

'Scries' is fine. If anything, 'is scried' would be even better, but this forum has it's own jargon when it deals with the seer abilities.

It would be, except he phrases the descriptions as "These are ...", which is not the normal format where scries is in fact fine. Notice that I kept it in the descriptions of unique roles where he did not use 'these'
@IF: If done right, certainly. It could become something of a WW game where the village consists of all of the people who participate in SG, and people are trying to find those that secretly joined.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

I was thinking about a WW system I've been working on. Called Madness WW or WW Madness for a reason:

@WW Madness:

Spoiler

Show

This dusty town has, for a long time, been a peaceful place. But from the north comes madness, a spark of insanity. But those who are insane would never believe it, would they? So now, with the insanity spreading, we, the loyal townspeople, must hunt these insane monsters down!

Roles:

Spoiler

Show

Villager:These are the normal townsfolk, prepared to defend their sanity and their town by attempting to find the insane ones. Scries as Villager. Team Good.

Anti-social Villager:These recluses are just as prepared to defend the town, but their constant seclusion and rebuffals of the other townsfolk make anyone think that they're really the insane ones. Scries as Evil Villager. Team Good. Gets told they are a Villager.

Insane Villager: These villagers who've caught the insanity are trying to spread their disease and destroy this town, but they do not know it. They believe themselves to be hunting down the insane ones. Scries as Villager until contacted by the Spreader of Insanity, then they scry as Evil Villager. Team Evil, Get's told they're Villager until the Spreader of Insanity tells them they are Insane Villagers.

Joker: These foolers love to have fun at anothers expense. Their constant fooling makes others unsure of what their true intentions are. Scries as a random other role than Joker. Team Good. Gets told their Villager.

Seer:The true see-er of the villagers, this person is the mastermind behind the plan to remove the insanity. Can scry once per night, scries are correct. Scries as Seer. Team Good.

Fool: A person who attempts to lead the townsfolk to the insane ones, but who constantly tangles his feet and has little sense. Has occasional burst of insight. Can scry once per night, scries are a random other role than the actual scry result should be, except on Joker and Reaper, who he scries correctly. Scries as Seer. Team Good. Gets told he is the Seer.

Devil: This charismatic person often vies with the Seer to lead the town against the insanity, unaware that every moment that passes the insanity creaps further into his mind. Can scry once per night, Scries are correct. Scries as Seer until contacted by the Spreader of Insanity. Then scries as Devil. Team Evil. Gets told he is the Seer.

Masons:These are one group of headmen, whose minds are untouched by the madness. They are here to aid the seer to stop the madness from spreading. Scries as Mason, knows other masons at the start. Team Good.

Anti-Masons: These are the other group of headmen, who are infected by this disease of madness. Scries as Mason until contacted, then scries as Anti-Mason. Knows other Anti-Mason's at the start. Team Evil. Gets told they're the masons.

Baner: The lone wolf who strides through the night, attempting to stop the insane ones from killing. He is sure of his sanity, and no-one can doubt his claim. Scries as Baner. Team Good.

The Reaper: A man sent to kill, he does not care who he strikes down as long as the insanity is found and destroyed. Scries as a random role of the opposite side to the seer. Team Neutral.

The Spreader of Insanity: This man knows his mind is corroded, and loves it. His madness has led him to more and more evil and wickedness, and now he plans to destroy everything that is sane. Scries as Spreader of Insanity. Can scry once per night, but only gets told if they are hidden-wolf or not. Can awaken hidden wolves. Team Evil.

Designed to send you mad, even if you weren't before playing it.

So, feed back on balance/thoughts, please.

Personally, I think a lynch only game could be interesting. Maybe I'll design one.

Team Evil's main weakness is the reliance on a single player (the Spreader of Insanity). If this player is lynched early, it's pretty much game over for Team Evil. I read another of your posts that says you will awaken unawakened wolves when awakened wolves die. Hmm... maybe the town is doomed (except for the Baner, of course).

If the Spreader of Insanity survives to mid-game, then I think Team Evil probably wins because the seer's scries cannot be used to create a network of trusted villagers (who should probably lynch the seer if he claims) and the Masons cannot be trusted either. That leaves the fate of the Town to the Fool, the Joker, and maybe the Reaper (if his Neutrality permits). Sounds like fun!

[Saposhiente]

That leaves the fate of the Town to the Fool, the Joker, and maybe the Reaper (if his Neutrality permits).

Or to, you know, their own wits and logic, helped by activity (go team activity!) instead of seer wagoning

[bladescape]

Or to, you know, their own wits and logic, helped by activity (go team activity!) instead of seer wagoning

This is actually an attempt to encourage this, sneakily hidden under the guise of a rule-set. ;-)

Although it's also designed to create Paranoia.

[Saposhiente]

If you wanna do that, why not just yank the seer entirely? Nobody said it was mandatory.

[TheLaughingMan]

Would anyone be interested in running TMF: Fate of the Shadow in Joos' stead? He hasn't shown up since May.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

I've reserved June 27 for the start of City of Spires. So, if anyone would like to co-narrate let me know.

[Bobby Archer]

Would anyone be interested in running TMF: Fate of the Shadow in Joos' stead? He hasn't shown up since May.

Is it possible for someone else to take over? There is more than one fool-type role in the game (Private Eye/Patsy, Shadow/Fanboy) and both fool roles have a chance at success. Even if everyone reports their roles to whoever takes over, we'll have a few that we can't know.

[Saposhiente]

He could also quantum-mechanics it, and redecide the roles on the spot. For seers, he could also probably ask for who you scried and as what, to see if he can then cross-reference the results with people's roles and the disguiser's actions to see if le Patsy got it wrong, allowing him to determine it.

[bladescape]

Sort of ruins the fun that the Joker can create without a seer.

[Lady Tialait]

I was thinking of a special rule, a First Three Day bane for those who RP in the first three days. Mostly because of good roleplayers getting lynched because of high visibility.

What do people think of that?....bad idea good idea?

[Mordokai]

No. While I enjoy(ed) roleplaying, people should get no privilige and no flak for presence or absence of roleplaying. Maybe some people do point at roleplayers. I don't think that is the case. But being exempt to lynch because of roleplaying?

Adamantly against.

[Lady Tialait]

I just wanted some input. I just noticed a pattern during the first two or three days of random posts, of those who RP getting more attention. Or those who used to RP not.

My mummy game was my first try to make random pointing less interesting, it failed for lack of scry and such. Then my life got super chaotic...still is. I might refine it later. And try to get a Co-nar.

[Saposhiente]

I'm pushing against the boring RVS entirely in ITP. Check out this Newbie (that's right) game from another forum. RVS is there, but it barely lasts 1/5 of D1, much less 3 days!

[Thufir]

Mostly because of good roleplayers getting lynched because of high visibility.

Really?
Because I remember having an argument with someone where I said that all other things being equal, I would always point at a non-RPer before an RPer, because RP makes the thread more interesting to read. And several people agreed with me.

[Lady Tialait]

Really?
Because I remember having an argument with someone where I said that all other things being equal, I would always point at a non-RPer before an RPer, because RP makes the thread more interesting to read. And several people agreed with me.

Maybe that is the case....I havn't been playing that long, and RP-ers have been lynched quicker as far as I have seen.

[Internet Flea]

I was thinking of a special rule, a First Three Day bane for those who RP in the first three days. Mostly because of good roleplayers getting lynched because of high visibility.

What do people think of that?....bad idea good idea?

If you're going to give roleplayers additional powers, it should probably be something less severe (maybe their point counts for two or something), and probably not have a cutoff point.

Of course you'll want to make it obvious that roleplaying is an important aspect of the game beforehand.

[Lex-Kat]

It's an interesting thought, but largely unfair to those who, for one reason or another, don't feel like RPing in that game. RPing should be incentive on its own. I do it just for the fun of it.

[Zeb The Troll]

He could also quantum-mechanics it, and redecide the roles on the spot. For seers, he could also probably ask for who you scried and as what, to see if he can then cross-reference the results with people's roles and the disguiser's actions to see if le Patsy got it wrong, allowing him to determine it.

This is what I did the time that I picked up a game with no co-narrator and the narrator left. The game I did was a little simpler from a seer/fool perspective but it can be done. Like you said, whatever they can't figure out, just make a command decision and go from there. It worked out well.

[Qwaz]

I tend to agree with Lex-kat. Turning roleplaying into a mechanic seems frought with peril...and abuse.

3-day bane = 3-day role player...etc.

I think a game, small or large, with a prize/incentive for RP or something could work but I would warn against it as a standard part of most games.

[banjo1985]

I think if you make it clear before signups begin that roleplaying is an important part of the game, then it's okay to have some kind of small bonus to particularly awesome posts and/or efforts. I wouldn't grant immunity or anything like that though.

In a few previous Advent Children games, I've encouraged roleplaying by occasionally handing out items for particularly good pieces of roleplaying or continued effort. You've got to be very careful doing this though, and it doesn't stop RPers getting killed off early. I remember how Advent Children II started, where two characters hit it off and did a lot of rich and interesting roleplaying, which the wolves then used as a reason to kill one of them off Night 1. Gave me plenty of ammunition for the narration that did.

[Dr. Bath]

If you look back at Alchemists... 1 I think you'll see how they worked a roleplay bonus points system. It was slightly arbitrary though and ended up breaking the game a bit, I think the wolves still won though, so it can't have been that bad. Not sure, anyway, it might be worth a look?