[3.P] The Summoner's Handbook: A Guide to the Pathfinder Summoner

[Cieyrin]

How bad should I feel when I create an Eidolon that has a better secondary natural attack without multiattack than the fighter's highest BAB attack?

Because this is totally going to happen in an IRL group I might be joining. It's... terrifying.

I'm not even doing anything close to cheese, for the record.

That may speak more to the fighter in question not being particularly well built but neat on making a melee beast. Care to share with the class?

[Crustypeanut]

Alternatively have one of the casters use a wand of Reloading Hands on muskets. I think that's one of the reasons he went double-barreled so the reloading isn't as much of an issue.

This. I'm not sure which caster Eidolon would carry it, but that was going to be one of my major focuses, since Rapid Reload isn't an option. Otherwise, even with alchemy cartridges, it would take two standard actions to fully reload a double-barreled musket.

And yeah, I think the DM is going to change the Double-Barreled musket's range to 40 ft, as 10 ft is obviously a typo.. I know I'm making that change in the campaign I'm working on.

My only serious issue with the Firing Squad is that most of them have only 1 HD at level 13.. until they get Improved Evasion, even a succeeded saving throw on an AoE ability from a level 5 character will wipe them out.. they're just THAT fragile.

[balistafreak]

That may speak more to the fighter in question not being particularly well built but neat on making a melee beast. Care to share with the class?

Yeah, it's just a really sad Fighter. Fighter has 12 Strength, 18 Dexterity, and more mental stats than he can really afford. Takes Weapon Finesse, no Dervish Dance or whatever it is to add Dex to damage. Not even Weapon Focus - focusing on disarming and some really random feats. +1 weapon with +1d6 elemental burst damage.

At 7th level, has +12/+7 to hit and a facepalmingly low 2d6+2 damage.

Meanwhile, biped form base has greater strength for higher damage already. Inherent Strength bonus from being an Eidolon. Stack Ability Increase: Strength twice. Craft a +4 Strength item. Use Summon Eidolon to benefit from Augment Summoning. 32 Strength already. Magic fang for +1/+1.
Elemental attacks evolution.

At 7th level (6HD eidolon), a claw has +18 to hit, 2d6+12 damage. Even when turned to secondary since I'm attacking with a manufactured weapon, that's +13 to hit, 1d6+1d4+7 damage.

I'd get more mileage out of pouncing shenanigans to be honest, but by going biped>large>reach weapon>reach evolution>Combat Reflexes>battlefield control I hope to be less "overpowered".

[sol_kanar]

I have built my Eidolon following loosely the guidelines for the Nom-Beast that can be found in the first page of this thread.

Now, I am 13th level and a human; so, I lack some of the Evolution points for the suggested build (originally half-elf). This is my current status:

Eidolon Evolutions (17 pts total)
2x Bite (2 pts total)
Grab (bite) (2 pts)
Swallow whole (3 pts)
Large -> Huge (4+6 pts)

Eidolon Feats (5 total)
HD 1 - Improved unarmed strike
HD 3 - Improved grapple
HD 5 - Improved natural attack
HD 7 - Greater grapple
HD 9 - Lunge

Now, the tactic for the Nom-Beast looks straightforward: attack, use bite + grab + grapple your target, next turn swallow it. But reading the rules for grapple and the descriptions of some feats, I am not that sure anymore.

Grapple rules specify that you can only make a grapple check per turn, as a standard action. The Grab Evolution says that you can do a Combat Maneuver as a free action if you hit with a natural attack tied to Grab. Moreover, the Greater Grapple feat says that you can now make two grapple checks per round.

So...can the Eidolon attack the opponent with a Bite, hit, use Grab and start a grapple as a free action, then use a Greater Grapple to roll a second check and (for example) deal some extra damage to the grapple creature, or pin it?

Or the "two checks" is something that you can do only when you grapple as a standard action? Or the correct answer is something else entirely?

Description of Grab Evolution

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An eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability. Pick bite, claw, pincers, slam, tail slap, or tentacle attacks. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the eidolon grapples the target. This ability only works on creatures of a size one category smaller than the eidolon or smaller. Eidolons with this evolution receive a +4 bonus on CMB checks made to grapple. Source: Advanced Player's Guide

Complete statistics (HPs are computed using a house rule, the rest is RAW)

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Ahemait
=======
Ability Scores Str 41 (16+16+5+4), Dex 14 (13-4+5), Con 22 (14+8), Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
HD: 10d10+60 (Hp: 135 <- 100 * 3/4 + 60)
AC: 30 (-2 size, +2+5+10 natural, +2 dex, +3 armour)
Speed: 30 feet
Space/Reach: 15 feet / 15+5 (lunge)
CMB: +27 = 10 (bab) + 15 (STR) + 2 (huge) / grapple CMB: +35 = +27 +2 (improved grapple) +2 (greater grapple) +4 (grab evolution)
CMD: 39 = 10 + 10 (bab) + 15 (STR) + 2 (DEX) + 2 (huge) / vs grapple 47
Attacks:
bite melee (reach 20 feet, damage type B,P,S)
- to hit +24 (+10 bab, +15 STR, -2 size, +1 amulet)
- damage 3d6+23
2x claws (reach 15 feet, damage type B,S)
- to hit +24 (+10 bab, +15 STR, -2 size, +1 amulet)
- damage 1d8+16
Special attacks:
swallow whole (3d6+23 +1d6 bludgeoning damage, 13 damages to escape vs AC 13)
Special qualities:
darkvision 60 feet
link (mental communication)
share spells
The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on
himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s
type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list.
evasion
If an eidolon is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex save for half damage, it takes no damage if it
makes a successful saving throw.
devotion (+4 ST against enchantment spells and effects)
Saves:
Fort +18 (+7 base, +6 CON, +5 resistance)
Ref +10 (+3 base, +2 DEX, +5 resistance)
Will +12 (+7 base, +5 resistance), +4 against enchantment spells and effects
Skills:
Intimidate +13/+17 (10 points, +3 class-trained, +4 if creature smaller than Huge)
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11 (10 points, +3 class-trained, -2 INT)
Perception +13 (10 points, +3 class-trained)
Sense motive +13 (10 points, +3 class-trained)

Items
=====
[major] Belt of giant strength +4 (16,000 GP)
[major] Cloak of resistance +5 (25,000 GP)
- Amulet of mighty fists +1 (5,000 GP)
- Ring of invisibility (10,000 GP)
- Bracers of armor +3 (9,000 GP)

Starting abilities
==================
Size Medium; Speed 30 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Saves Fort (good), Ref (bad), Will (good); Attack 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 16, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11; Free Evolutions claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs).

Feats
=====
1 - Improved unarmed strike (skilled at being unarmed)
2 - Improved grapple (no attack of opportunity when starting grapple, +2 grapple, +2 CMD when grappled)
3 - Improved natural attack (bite from 2d6 -> 3d6)
4 - Greater grapple (+2 grapple, 2 checks every turn)
5 - Lunge (increase reach by 5 feet by taking -2 to AC until end of turn)

Thanks for your answers and support :-)

[Cieyrin]

I believe the expected turn order for a Nom Beast would be:
Standard: Attack with Bite
(Assuming a hit with the Bite) Free: Initiate Grapple, thanks to Grab
(Assuming successful Grapple) Move: Initiate Swallow, thanks to Greater Grapple

End Result: One Swallowed creature from within 20' of you.

On the other hand, you may want to charge or full attack if you're worried about that initial hit going off, in which case you can swallow next round and then grab another critter to swallow. Incidentally, Swallow Whole doesn't mention a max capacity of critters, just a max size of each critter. Interesting...

[deuxhero]

What happens if you dismiss the Ediloon when they have someone swallowed anyways?

[sol_kanar]

What happens if you dismiss the Ediloon when they have someone swallowed anyways?

O_o

That's...that's a good question. I guess that depends on what usually happens when a summoned creature is dismissed. From what I've read, all the equipment on the Eidolon goes with it when it's dismissed; if the swallowed creature counts as part of the equipment, then it also goes with it...where??? :-D

[Cieyrin]

What happens if you dismiss the Ediloon when they have someone swallowed anyways?

I'd think anything inside would be expelled as it fades away. It's not like a mounted Summoner would go with his Eidolon if it got shot from under him, would he?

[Chess435]

Any chance this'll ever get updated with the UC and UM stuff?

[sol_kanar]

I'd think anything inside would be expelled as it fades away. It's not like a mounted Summoner would go with his Eidolon if it got shot from under him, would he?

That's true: but the Eidolon's gear would go with it. So, if a creature inside an Eidolon is still alive, it will probably get expelled. If it's dead, it will probably go away with it.

[Cieyrin]

That's true: but the Eidolon's gear would go with it. So, if a creature inside an Eidolon is still alive, it will probably get expelled. If it's dead, it will probably go away with it.

If they're dead, do we really care about the corpse? If you're dismissing it, you can have your Eidolon spit out the remains before doing so. Otherwise, I suppose that may be a handy way to transport stuff but that's pretty open to interpretation. I wouldn't put it past a DM to pull a Bag of Devouring trick there.

[TheDavisChanger]

Any chance this'll ever get updated with the UC and UM stuff?

Good question. I like Cushioning Bands and am curious to see if those that are better at the metagame than I am see the value. 120 extra HP sounds pretty good to me.

Also, nice avatar.

[Grasharm]

Good question. I like Cushioning Bands and am curious to see if those that are better at the metagame than I am see the value. 120 extra HP sounds pretty good to me.

I can't say about when UM will be added into the main post. Only Saph can do that edit I believe but I can give you my take on Cushioning Bands and that is don't bother. Wait for 3rd level spells and take Stoneskin. At first Cushioning Bands comes off as a lower power and level Stoneskin but the fact that it is overcome by both slashing and piercing damage makes this spell way too niche. Slashing is the most common form of physical damage followed closely by piercing. This mean that 75% of the time when you are hit by a physical attack it is going to bypass the DR anyway. I use 75% instead of 2/3 for my made up statistic in this because that' s just how infrequently you usually encounter it.

There are going to be exceptions. Games with a lot of constructs and undead are going to see more bludgeoning damage since they slam. In higher level play larger creatures get things like tail slap, trample, constrict, and swallow whole but by the time you face a large number of these larger creatures you should have the far superior Stoneskin. The only player controlled exception comes when you have an Oracle with the Bones mystery. Then this spell Pairs awesomely with their bone armor revelation.
Those are the only exceptions I can come off with off the top of my head.

Addendum: I feel like a hypocrite advising against this since my character makes extensive use of this but before you get all happy understand how. My character flies around on his eidolon and in order to use this spell he flies high and jumps spear first with the bands in place from high up onto his victim. My GM has ruled in this case I can transfer half my falling damage to my victim as I use him as a landing pad. The bands then cut out half the crushing damage from the fall and finally take out their two points of DR. As you can see this is a very GM specific application of the spell and really it only works twice a combat. The intial attack and then I swap places with my eidolon and do it again while the eidolon takes my place in the current melee.

[TheDavisChanger]

I'm glad I piped up.
I interpreted the Damage Reduction to apply to slashing and piercing damage, not be bypassed by it!
I guess 120 extra HP against the most common forms of damage would have been too good to be true. Thanks for correcting my understanding.

[Cieyrin]

I'm glad I piped up.
I interpreted the Damage Reduction to apply to slashing and piercing damage, not be bypassed by it!
I guess 120 extra HP against the most common forms of damage would have been too good to be true. Thanks for correcting my understanding.

It's also only DR 2, meaning you take off 2 points each hit, which isn't that great unless you're getting pummeled by an angry mob of halflings with clubs and slings. The half damage from constriction can be of use against assassin's veins or against Tetori and fall damage if you're a Dragoon Fighter but otherwise it's a very corner case, scroll it at best.

[Grasharm]

I disagree with your dismissal of the value of DR 2. As long as it is not overcome by too many things DR of any value is quite worthwhile. Admittedly DR really shines when pitted against multiple small attacks where it cuts a little out of every attack but even if it only matters once a combat round that is still 2 hp every round. Go through 5 hits and that is a whole fighter HD maxed out that you can keep 'em standing.

Also catching up. Apparently I put too much faith in the subscription system to let me know what was going on in the thread and I missed quite a bit. So I'm going to put my two cents from an earlier post here.

balistafreak you have to realize that even though summoner is superficially a caster class in truth it has more in common with the Hexblades and other Melee/Arcane hybrids. Your spell list is very similar to theirs, only 6 spell level progression, and your primary damage dealing source is physical attacks via Eidolon rather than boomy, boomy of more traditional spell casters. So don't be sorry your hybrid fighter is outclassing the traditional type.

As always I will point out the exception to my statement and that is the Master Summoner Variant. With more summons and a less combat capable eidolon he is primarily a spell slinger with a more capable familiar. So if you don't want to show up the fighter look into it. Master summoners ability to summon even with their eidolon out is worth something and you can sling spells via the spell-like abilities of your summons at later levels. Also master summoner benefits the most from my spell conversion eidolon and skillidon types.

[stack]

Master Summoner show up the fighter by flooding the field with critters. Even with low HP and weak attacks they add up, then factor in spell likes and other specials. SMIII for a dretch (which then casts stinking cloud) is a nice example.

[Cieyrin]

You said so yourself, it's pierced by most attacks and when it does resist, it barely slows it down. The point of DR is so you don't get hurt or a significant amount of punishment is knocked off. DR 2 takes care of knicks and scratches. Compare to Protection from Arrows, it provides DR 10/ranged attacks with a similar cap before it's expended and it's the same level as Cushioning Bands and both can be cast by Summoners of the same level. If I had to choose between the two, Protection from Arrows would be ahead of it, whole hog. Cushioning Bands is just too restrictive on its powers to be truly useful. There are times it'll shine and hence why I say scroll it for those times. You don't take it for that DR 2, you take it for half damage vs. those attack types/effects.

[Grasharm]

hrmm I think we are having two different conversations. When you said

It's also only DR 2, meaning you take off 2 points each hit, which isn't that great.

I took that to mean you where dissing DR 2 in general like say Dr 2/cold iron as well as the bands DR. Having read your follow up I think we are on the same page now which is: the bands DR sucks because it's too easy to overcome but DR 2 in general is a good thing as long as it is not too easily overcome.

Now Stack yeah you flood the field and do a bunch of flash spell likes and then they all go poof poof quickly as the monsters clear out the field just as quickly. In other words bang and gone. Which is my point. This is more in line with a traditional caster type play-style unlike most eidolon centric styles which have a more Fighter/Arcane hybrid feel where it's all about wading in and soaking up hits and using buff and debuff style magic to help deal the damage and take the hits as well if not better than the pure blood fighters. That's what I'm trying to say and that is just my take on summoners. Feel free to disagree I don't think I'm going to budge far on this one.

[stack]

hrmm I think we are having two different conversations. When you said

I took that to mean you where dissing DR 2 in general like say Dr 2/cold iron as well as the bands DR. Having read your follow up I think we are on the same page now which is: the bands DR sucks because it's too easy to overcome but DR 2 in general is a good thing as long as it is not too easily overcome.

Now Stack yeah you flood the field and do a bunch of flash spell likes and then they all go poof poof quickly as the monsters clear out the field just as quickly. In other words bang and gone. Which is my point. This is more in line with a traditional caster type play-style unlike most eidolon centric styles which have a more Fighter/Arcane hybrid feel where it's all about wading in and soaking up hits and using buff and debuff style magic to help deal the damage and take the hits as well if not better than the pure blood fighters. That's what I'm trying to say and that is just my take on summoners. Feel free to disagree I don't think I'm going to budge far on this one.

I don't necessarily disagree. The summoner can overshadow the fighter in the same way a conjurer can. Eidolon-centric (or synthesist) absolutely plays differently.

[Grasharm]

Ah well I suppose I should mention that my original post was directed at another earlier post about a person that was worried about how his summoner was going to make the fighter look bad in the new group he was joining. I pointed out that a summoner is basically a fighter/arcane hybrid type not a pure caster type so yes you are going to steal some thunder from the pure fighter just like every other fighter hybrid.

Now also when I first posted to this board I posted a bunch of thoughts and observations in a spoiler box because there was a lot of if. I got 0 response or suggestions on where in the earlier pages of this ongoing dialog I could look up and see where it the thought had been talked to death. Since I'm interested in what everyone has to say I'm reposting that spoiler box here. bring your flames they will only make me stronger muahhahaaaha!!

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In the roles section you list melee combat (You) as awful. You have two advantages in Melee combat that I think your overlooking. 1) shield ally means I can't gain much more benefit from an actual shield freeing up your off hand for extra combat punch either through duel wielding or more likely using a spear two handed or other weapon you choose to become proficient in. 2) while you can only wear light armor you have easy access to the best spell in the game to increase armor class - Barkskin. As an enhancement bonus to Natural Armor it STACKS! with almost every other existing armor bonus except other enhancement type bonuses to natural armor so pretty much only the amulet of natural armor magic item.

Under abilities you list STR as the primary dump stat when you admit that Wis affects just your will save which is your best save so can take the hit better making it the superior dump stat. in my opinion. After all the will save can be fixed with a feat (iron will) and you will be making the odd melee attack your entire adventuring your career between AOOs and just in your face monsters that you can't shake. (that Otyugh that ambushed you in the swamp dares you to try to step away. It's more than happy to aoo you to death with it's 10' reach and Auto grab attempt to keep you next to him even if he drops you once hes stopped your movement so you constantly provoke unless you pull that spear off your back)

Under core meta-magic feats I feel any spontaneous caster can greatly benifit from Heighten spell. At some point you are going to use a higher level spell slot to cast a lower level spell so you might as well get the most bang for your buck. Also it's unclear if the summoner can burn higher level spell slots for lower level spells without this feat. With it just heighten it to the higher level slot and since it's not a set +level adjustment to the spell you can choose the spell slots you use on the fly.

Now under fang vs blade you ignore what I consider a big point in favor of "blade" and that is recycling. You are probably not going to be the "main" fighter character. When as you progress up levels your "main" fighter abandons his current weapon of choice lets say +2 flaming sword for the +2 icy burst sword your eidolon can now inherit the previous sword unless your fighter is using some exotic weapon type like spiked chains. This advantage may require the 4pt evolution though if your DMs are like the ones I'm used to they do not keep giving the same type of sword over and over again unless there is some pressing reason the fighter won't use any other type of sword. If he does wait till you know what type of weapon your fighter is using and will keep getting and take the appropriate feat.

Eidolon Feats- you missed a feat tree and my pick for first thing to give your eidolon over even power attack for it's final
Combat Reflexes- prerequisite feat and with your ever increasing dex is not a completely wasted feat esp since your eidolon is going to be in melee 90% of the time almost irregardless of the build.
Bodyguard - congrats you can now convert those extra aoos into armor bonus for your allies. Again a good ability and even better than combat reflexs but still we are really taking it as a prereq. for ....
In Harms Way - have the guy that will be back tomorrow with a hangover take the critical hit damage that is so high that even the barbarian that it is about to hit will be one shotted. Yup, sounds like a good plan to me. Time to start using that summon monster ability for the rest of the combat.

Eidolon Packages- with ultimate magic out there is a new "package" to be considered
Spell converter:
Base form: any
evolutions: basic magic, minor magic, major magic, ability increase chr if necessary
Feats: no specific recommendations though given that you are going to be close to your eidolon the above bodyguard tree is a good choice.
special: your eidolons ability advance should go to chr

The idea is that you give your eidolon one of each magic evolution to meet the perquisites for all available "magic" evolutions so you don't need the highest version of magic evolution. Then you cast appropriate evolution surge and take a magic evolution effectively converting your surge into the spell the evolution grants and have your eidolon fire it off. With higher levels of surge you may even get three castings of the spell to surge used.
This should be used as an add-on to another eidolon not a stand alone build as at higher levels you can probably get better use out of summoning a caster type monster than converting surges.

[Cieyrin]

hrmm I think we are having two different conversations. When you said

I took that to mean you where dissing DR 2 in general like say Dr 2/cold iron as well as the bands DR. Having read your follow up I think we are on the same page now which is: the bands DR sucks because it's too easy to overcome but DR 2 in general is a good thing as long as it is not too easily overcome.

No, I am pretty much saying it is worthless, Cushioning Band's version especially so. Let's look at the math of this, shall we?

Let's look at a typical CR 1, the ghoul, and compare it against the easiest source of DR at that level, a 1st level Inquisitor using the Resiliency Judgement for DR 1/magic. Ghouls have 3 attacks that each deal 1d6+1 a piece. A weak attack, as you put it, that DR 1-2 should be able to handle, right? Assuming they all hit, since the supposition is against lots of weak attacks, they normally average 4.5 a hit or 13.5 total. Knock off 3 for hitting DR 1 3 times for average 10.5. Inquisitor with Con 14 is at 0 hp, less and she's in the negatives and bleeding out, despite the DR, not to mention the saves against paralysis and disease.

Let's say that's too tough an example and we back-pedal to a trio of goblins, who, at CR 1/3, should be a suitable encounter for a 1st level party. Assuming again the Inquisitor with Resiliency going and all the goblins hit, they each do 1d4 with their shortbows or dogslicer, averaging 2.5 a hit or 7.5 in total. Knocking off 3 again, that's 4.5, which is about half the Inquisitor's hp at that level. Still rather hurt for the trouble, where if the Inquisitor had gone for Protection, she may have not been hit at all.

Contrast with 3 orcs, also CR 1/3, they each do 2d4+4 or 9 average. DR 1 or not, that unlucky Inquisitor is very much into the negatives after 2 hits, most likely dead if there was a crit in there, which is likely with those falchions.

Let's look at a more relevant example, where we compare to an Invulnerable Rager at 4th, the same level as Summoner's get Cushioning Bands, for DR 2/-.
Let's have him fight a Grizzly Bear, a suitable CR 4. Grizzly bears deal 1d6+5 each attack, averaging 8.5 an attack or 25.5. Knock off 2 each hit and that's 19.5. Average HP on a barbarian of that level while raging is around 45-50, so that'll buy the barbarian 1 extra round of breathing and hoping they can placate said bear or make it into bear jerky.

Now that we've looked at that, let's compare to relevant DR. Take a Lemure, a CR 1 devil with DR 5/good or silver. Goblins can swarm that thing and, unless they manage a crit, they aren't going to hurt it while it slowly devours them one by one. They can't throw torches and oil flasks at it, since it's immune to fire and acid flasks are also irrelevant, due to Acid Resistance 10. The ghoul will claw and gnaw at it but on average will due neglible damage, as it roll a 5 or 6 on each die to even damage it and get that paralysis and disease to go off, which the Lemure is likely to resist anyways with the Fort +4 against the ghoul's Fort DC 13. The orcs have a fighting chance, as almost every hit will damage it, just not as much as they'd like. They average 4 damage a hit against it, so it'll stand a round, perhaps 2 if they roll low, in which time it may kill one with its claws.

Or take a Summoner with Protection from Arrows. If you grabbed a tribe of goblins and had them plink against him, they'll never get through that DR 10/magic, at least till it runs out but when you average 2.5 a hit, 40 hp of protection is a long time. As would other archers for the most part, unless equipped with a magic bow but then they'd be of an appropriate CR or higher, most likely. So, as you'll have hopefully seen, DR 1 or 2 is pretty negligible, it's when you get to DR 5 or higher that it becomes respectable and you have to pull out the stops or get around it to threaten something with that kind of DR.

[Saph]

Any chance this'll ever get updated with the UC and UM stuff?

I'd like to, but I've just had a book published (with two more due to come out this year) and between that, planning the next book, and jobhunting, I'm pushed for time at the moment.

Is there anything major from UM/UC that would need covering other than Archetypes and new spells?

[deuxhero]

Edit: ^ You have my permission to put my trait evaluations in the guide itself (or link to them) if you want to.

Bored once again, continuing traits rating (see page 17).


Regional
Abendego Spellpiercer: If you plan on being in melee or the GM likes to ready ranged attacks against you, this is great.
Aberration Hunter: +1 against one creature and only on AoOs? Bleh.
Absalom Hotspur: Better options for initiative boosts, but it works.
Acolyte of Razmir: Both are alreddy class skills.
Acupuncturist: Again +1 always>+2 rarely
Alchemical Prodigy: Potions are overpriced anyways, and you are a spellcaster anyways.
Alkenstar Defender: It's like Anatomist, but the attack needs to be ranged!
Altruistic Diplomat: If it became a class skill this would be blue, but it doesn't.
Andoren Freedom Fighter: "Holding someone against their will" is broad and common enough a hook to not make this campaign specific, but you aren't making attack rolls.
Antiquities Smuggler: Bluff as a class skill! On a flavor note, dismissing your Eidolon while it holds the items and summoning it once you are past the gate is an excellent smuggling method.
Artifact Hunter: See "Knowledge (all) (Int)" under your class skills?
Aspiring Hellknight: Intimidate as a class skill. There are better options to do it with and the fluff doesn't work for you, but good mechanically.
Bandit: See above but without the fluff problem
Belem Pirate: Already class skills (also, Fighters get profession now, so is there anyone that can actually use it as a class skill?)
Bellflower Tiller: It's +5 for everything with survival for everything but track. Grab it if you want it.
Blooded: You aren't attacking, campaign specific on a flank buddy or mounted dood.
Border Guard: Even in an underwater campaign you aren't confirming criticals.
Bounty Hunter: Preception bonus works, but just grab it as a class skill for +3 instead.
Candidate for Perfection: Are you a monk?
Cheap to Feed: You are an adventurer so you don't need to beg.
Child of the Crusades: +1 all>+2 sometimes
Chivalrous: Flat bonus, but grab it as a class skill instead.
Chosen Child: Good in a level 1 one shot. Worthless after that (Not terrible until far in if the DM adds it to your WBL permanently).
Citizen of Eleder: +1/+1 and it isn't even always on?
Citizen of Kalabuto: Same as above.
Clan Artisan: What class doesn't alreddy have craft?
Cliff-Master: +1/+1, no class skills
Clumsy Slave: Odd and specific bonus, doesn't make it a class skill.
Coin Hoarder: See Chosen Child. That is better strictly though.
Conscientious Miner: Who doesn't have this as a skill?
Cosmopolitan: Already a skill and as a bonus, it doesn't even give the most important part of linguistics.
Cosmopolitan: Variant of the above with the exact same effect!
Crusader Tactician: Already class skills.
Cynic: Finally something you can use! Great for a faceman.
Darklands Delver : Take if you want survival
Desert Child: Campaign dependent.
Desert Nomad: Same as the above, but more specific fluff.
Devotee of Kalistrade: +1/+1 situationally and no class skill.
Discerning Beliefs: "School of Illusion" is a much broader situation than most, but still, +1 will is better.
Dominator: Take this for a +2 bonus... or take something that gives it as a class skill for +3 and possibly a +1 on top of that!
Dtang Ma Bloodline: You don't have a sorcerer bloodline arcana. Even if you get one from feats, you shouldn't use it for something that gets a save.
Dusk Dancer: +2 situational... but the situation is pretty easy to meet and if you have dark vision (and no Grues in your campaign), you can meet it pretty frequently if the campaing doesn't take place outdoors in the day.
Elemental Pupil: It's like Havoc of the Society, but the damage isn't Force and thus doesn't allow you to effect fire immune creatures with a Dazzling (via rod) Wall of Fire.
Enemy of the Undead: In undead heavy campaigns...
Equality for All: The bonus to CMD only cancels out their bonus to CMB from size...
Fangwood Diplomat: Diplomacy, Class Skill.
Freed Slave: +1 will save always
Freedom Fighter: You aren't in melee, much less improvising a weapon.
Friend of the Dead/Fey: Or grab it as a class skill?
Frostborn: Campaign dependent!
Genie-Caller: Conjuration (summoning) is your bread and butter and steak and potatoes and ice cream and... Even if it is just once a day.
Glory of Old: +1 bonus to pretty much everything you save against.
Goblin Pirate: If you are a Goblin summoner who finds himself on the sea, go ahead.
Guerilla: Want survival?
Heart of Clay: +1 always to fort.
Heavenly Touch: Or use UMD and heal it.
Hermean Paragon: Going first is good for you.
Highlander: You want Stealth as a class skill?
Honeyed Tongue You want Diplomacy as a class skill. Notice that one has a period and not a question mark.
Hongal Bloodrider +1/+1 with no class skill. I've run out of things to say about these.
Hwan Artist: You want to preform?
Iadaran Illusionist: Great!... if you had useful illusions beyond Invisiblity, which this only effects dispell (which isn't happening unless they see you) and duration (It adds on minute).
Imperial Soldier: Intimidate as a class skill.
Indentured Blacksmith: I just checked, ONLY experts (who can have it if they want it) don't have craft as a class skill alreddy!
Inspiring Speaker: Or +3 from a class skill with +1 always from the trait itself?
Instigator of Rebellion: See above
Intrepid Delver: +2 situtational save bonus. ZZZ...
Isger Fixer: Normally worthless because you have mending, but RAW this works on vehicles and with no action given, I think defaults to a standard action, so it can work on vehicles.
Isgeri Orphan: +1 fort always
Issian Noble +1/+1
Jungle Diplomat: See up
Jungle Guide: If you want either as a class skill.
Jungle Resilience: +1 situtational
Jungle Walker Take the one two above this for +4 total.
Kami Talker: If not for the subtype requirement, this could have been blue, as dealing with outsiders isn't rare for you.
Keeper of the Veil: Both are neat class skills for you.
Kwanlai Believer: You are arcane, not divine
Kyonin Gatekeeper: You've got teleports to boost I guess...
Lastwall Cavalry Rider It alreddy is one though.
Left Behind: This trait is garbage! CRUNCH! I'll ad it to the heap.
Legalistic Liberation: Normally this would be so situational as to be worthless, but with Planar Binding, you can use it at will. Still on the bad side due to only a single +1
Linebreaker: But you don't charge.
Lingshen’s Finest: Anatomist in Regional trait clothing.
Log Roller: Too lazy to check The Ultimate Warrior's Workout for a quote. But +1/+1
Mammoth Master: Situational +4 for a skill you won't use.
Mana Wastes Survivalist: +1 fort
Master of Peak: Or take one above it.
Merchant of Katheer/Merchant’s Child: You want to appraise, then take it.
Milita: OK for Flank Buddy
Minkai Advocate: A face class skill
Mizu Ki Hikari Rebe: You!=Monk. Perhaps your pet can use it if they get traits.
Monkey Goblin At least this is a +2/+2 situational instead of +1
Mordant Heritage: This situtational bonus is against an entire school of magic, but it is only +1 and Enchantment is all will saves to my memory, so just take something with +1 to will saves.
Mountain Guide: Already a class skill
Mutabi-qi Explorer: Situational +1/+1. Oddly the Know:Geo bonus applies when you are in a desert, but it doesn't have to be related to the desert.
Nirmathi Militia: As for profession, it is slightly less pointless than Craft to get as a class skill (Barbarians don't have it). Anyways, if you want survival as a skill.
Oagan Diver: If you want to swim
Oenopion Alchemist: At least it isn't situational I guess...
Osirionologist: Both class skills and as far as I know, none of your Summons speak it. If your campaign has a lot of Ancient Osiriani you need to read, it could work.
Passionate Believer: Divine spells are one major source of needing a save.
Pearl Diver : Say it with me: Situational +1/+1
Perseverance: Bonus to rerolled saves, would be better if it wasn't will only.
Pesh Addict: Two good class skill options for you and a meaningless penalty.
Plainsman: from now on these will simply be marked s11, because I'm barely halfway done with this and see a lot more coming.
Pomp and Pageantry: Wording is confusing. If it meant one of these is a class skill, good, if it only works if it is a class skill AND you take longer, this is the first trait that, theoretically, has a use, but I'm marking red
Privileged Slave: Bluff
Purchased Loyalty: You can make another PC such a person in the backstory and just turn this into always.
Quain Martial Artist !=Monk
Quantium University Graduate: You are an arcane caster...
Rabble Rebel S22
Rahadoumi Cultist: Highly S55
Rahadoumi Disbeliever: This trait seriously hurts you.
Rebel Leader: It depends on if you can take Leadership.
Rice Runner: You can tumble away with this.
Rider of Paresh: You aren't taking this if you aren't mounted. Requirement to take (you can't wait till you can ride and take the feat) sucks though.
Riverfolk: S22
Sargavan Guard: You aren't going to be wearing armor with an ACP or using skills that you take an ACP penalty on. Detailed this last time.
Scion of Goblinblood: Flesh to stone and shrink item turns this permanent +1 damage, but even that isn't worth a trait.
Seasoned Climber: Normally "class skills you don't have" is black, but Fly replaces Climb, and you DO have that.
Secret of the Impossible Kingdom: Ooh! +1 caster level on one spell.
Secret Revolutionary: Situational +1+1 to saves.
Shackles Seafarer: Swim as class skill.
Shenmen Prospector +1/+1
Shoanti Tribesman: Swim climb or survival as a class skill
Signaler: Did this alreddy
Silent Watcher: s11
Silvertongued Eunuch +1/+1
Sky Spirit Worshiper +2 will v fear
Slayer of the Deep: Did this one alreddy.
Snake Bleeder: It's alreddy a class skill
Soldier of the Faith: Intimidate
Sound of Mind Situational +2, but decently large situtation
Spiritual Forester: Already skills
Storm Hunter: If the DM lets you bypass winds spells and not just weather, this is good for a dedicated bow user, but you aren't that.
Stormrunner S2
Superstitious: What's this a guide for?
Superstitious Ward: Ahahahaha. Cantrip alreddy inferior to ones you DO get a mere once a day?
Swamp Rebel
Swordlord’s Page: +1 confirm critical hits? I have enough of you!
Szaezan Crags Miner: Appraise as class skill
Technic Tinkerer: Least you can pick a useful cantrip,
Thuvian Merchant: S111
Tianjing Temple Guard: +1 AOO
Tiger Brigadier Intimidate as class skill
Touched by the Sky: Just! Use! UMD!
Treerazer’s Bane: Situtational +2 damage
Trench Navigator: Already class skills.
Undermarket Smuggler: +1/+1
Uskwood Hunter: Stealth as a class skill
Ustalavic Noble: +1/+1 +100 starting gold
Valashmai Veteran: Most rolled skill in the game
Varisian Wanderer: Take it if you want preform or slight of hand as a class skill.
Viking Blood: Intimidate as a class skill
Walking Ward Take a +1 to a save instead.
Warrior Poet: Half of it is useless and all the magenta is blending together.
Watching Taldor: The 2nd half is "What? Why?" and possibly means it only works on mundane weapons, but the first is an unqualifed initiative boon. +2 boosts are obtainable though.
Wayang Spellhunter Metamagic reduction!
Wealthy Dabbler: Again, upping this to black because it slightly better than comparable previous abilities (2 cantrips over 1) and magenta is tiring at this point.
Winter Warrior S11
Winter’s Soul: You alreddy get an equivalent unlimited times a day.
Xa Hoi Soldier: We end on a moderately decent note +1 reflex.

Wow, that was long. Just noticed I took about an hour to type that.

Seriously, why so many +1/+1 traits? Why are most of the class skill givers to Know skills?

Religion traits look more interesting, but don't expect me to do them soon.


edit: Social is a short list, so let's do it now

Social
Brastlewark Businessman: +2 alchemy. You know the drill.
Collector +2 from a list, no class skill
Convincing Liar: Bluff or Intimidate as a class skill and +1. Both good.
Entomologist: Dependent on the campaign having a lot of Vermin.
Etymologist: Already a class skill
Explorer: Or pick up survival as a class skill
Maestro of the Society: You can't use it
Noble Savage: Get it as a class skill?
Poverty-Stricken: Want survival? Get it here.
Savant: If you want to preform...

Note that I've skipped things labeled "This is fan-created content or a fan conversion.", but I've noticed a lot of them list the source as Pazio and relate to the Pathfinder setting. What exactly does it mean?

[Grasharm]

Hey Cieyrin, I wanted to discuss our relative viewpoints a little more on DR but felt we where getting off summoner topic so started a new thread and it's snowballed a little. Ahhh well that's the sign of a good forum. Anyway here is the link.


http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12962927&posted=1#post12962927

[deuxhero]

Is there anything major from UM/UC that would need covering other than Archetypes and new spells?

Aquatic base from, evolutions and Feats come to mind also items.

Extra Evolution feat is obviously obvious.

Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal) line. It's nothing grand till level 17 and takes 4 feats (3 for Half Elf) and a high charisma (not a big deal to you), but you get most of one of the few abilities worth losing a caster level over back in 3.5: Double every fiendish/demon summon you do for free (comes 7 levels after Malconvoker gets it though).

UM has a line of SNA boosts for First Worlders.

Superior Summoning adds one creature anytime you summon multiple things and RAW triples when combined with Eldritch Heritage line.

Skeleton Summoner looks really bad: Add two skeletons to your summon list (Yay, no scaling!) and apply skeleton creature to a summon, which would be cool if it wasn't once a day. It also has a requirement that is useless for you.

Antagonize seems useable for your Eidolon (though the intimidate version can work for the Summoner). It isn't actually a will save, which the intimidate version is fairly useful against arcane casters that will dump wisdom.

Defending Eidolon, Focused Eidolon and Resilient Eidolon (edit and Vigilant Eidolon, thank you Cieyrin) are Summoner specific if nothing else

Dimensional Agility line is usable, but comes too late and limited in uses, (for your Eidolon via DD evolution).

There is a line of feats centered around the constrict in UC

Bunch of less obvious stuff in UC for your Eidolon


On another note, Mistmail (APG) is intresting as an item. A mere 2,250 gp in exchange for blocking your armor slot (but not Mage Armor), gives you 20% miss chance, which is way bigger than any AC you could get you. RAW it has no penalties for you because of the limited range of the mist. It should even block LoS for things behind you.



edit:

Cracked Orange Prism Ioun Stone (Seeker of Secrets) gives you a cantrip from any list (Prestidigitation and the now infinite Create Water being the obvious picks). Sadly, Summon Instrument's range isn't "you", so you can share spell it with a large Eidolon and create pianos to throw/


On this subject Eldritch Heritage: Arcane gives you a bonded item giving you either a familiar or a amulet, ring, staff, wand, or masterwork weapon that you can improve as though you had the creation requirements (though it can be destroyed and leave you without casting for a week+200 GP).

EH, Improved (Arcane) has two very helpful options, either remove the time increase to apply metamagic to a spell a few times a day, or (the big one), get a Sorcerer/Wizard spell known at 11, 15 and 19 (4, 5 and 6, though you can get two 5th levels if you delay taking the feat till level 13).


One trick for arcane bond if you have lots of down time is that nothing says a bonded object loses its properties if dismissed, so you can dismiss your object and craft a new one.

[Cieyrin]

You missed Vigilant Eidolon, deuxhero. Keeps both you and your Eidolon observant and resistant to surprises and ambushes, plus it gives better bonuses than Skill Focus(Perception) will, though it stacks with it if you go Half-Elf and keep the bonus Skill Focus.

[deuxhero]

Thank you, edited it in.

[Crasical]

You missed Vigilant Eidolon, deuxhero. Keeps both you and your Eidolon observant and resistant to surprises and ambushes, plus it gives better bonuses than Skill Focus(Perception) will, though it stacks with it if you go Half-Elf and keep the bonus Skill Focus.

... I misread that as 'Vigilante Eidolon' for a second. The possibilities...

[grarrrg]

... I misread that as 'Vigilante Eidolon' for a second. The possibilities...

Alright, what's the best way to build a "Batman" (the superhero, not the wizard) Eidolon?

We need Biped, multiple dips into the Skilled evolution.
Winged Flight depending on how literal you want to get....