Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XVIII

[Grynning]

I'll get started judging tomorrow. 9 builds isn't so bad, hopefully we'll have this one knocked out pretty quickly.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, at least you can post the idea, no? In spoilers, in any case.

Alas, I was too late to decide whether I should judge or not, but I think a swift round of competition might be needed. I think I took far too much time on the last one.

In any case, watching something I could have done, I was thinking something along the lines of:

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Scout 4/Ranger 2 (or really, anything of utility)/Unseelie Dark Hunter 2/Virtuoso 1/Wild Soul 1/Unseelie Dark Hunter 6+/Sublime Chord 1/Wild Soul +3

The idea was to reinforce the fluff of the unseelie by taking the one other class with strong fae fluff, then advance UDH casting up until 3rd level, and Sublime Chord casting up to 6th level.

Of course, the idea is a bit ridiculous given that:

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The dependance on Wisdom and Charisma aside from Dexterity which makes the build MAD, Sublime Chord being an easy trick, plus the Virtuoso and Ranger dips, and only 6th level arcane spellcasting, even though you'd get the use of spontaneous spells from Wild Soul, not to mention the poor stacking of Skirmish and the lack of solid mechanics to enforce it.

So it wouldn't have been a good entry. Then again, I really would have done that far too haphazardly so as to ensure a proper entry.

In any case, while I'll be watching, I'll have to wait for next competition to see if I'll compete OR judge again. Geoffrey shall be avenged!

[Waker]

Well, I suppose I could give the gist of my builds. I never finished everything, so this is just the summary.

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First build was going to be Aasimar Ranger 1/Hexblade 4/Mortal Hunter 6/Dark Hunter 8. This guys trick would be to grab the ACF Dark Companion, then later grab Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar for a Worg. All of his arcane casting classes (all but ranger) would stack for determining his familiar/mount, so he'd make a decent mounted combat/skirmisher type.

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Second one was Uldra (Frostburn) Ranger 5/Bloodhound 7/Dark Hunter 7. Would be all about the tracking and disabling of the target. No crazy tricks, just a hunter who you could never seem to lose. The other variant I had for this build was replacing some levels of Bloodhound with Assassin.

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Last build was going to be a Shifter Barbarian 5/Beast Heart Adept 7/Dark Hunter 8. No subtlety here. Go with the Charge/Pounce build, backed up by some monsters (Wyvern/Worg probably).

[Amechra]

Fast version of mine:

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Divine Minion of Set Dvati Wilderness Rogue 3/Zhentarim Fighter 3/Dark Hunter 10/Swordsage 1, with Dragon Wild shape at one point. Yes, one body would ride the other, and the rider would recharge the maneuvers using his full round action. Tried to get Multivoice on there, but failed.

[Zaq]

No one mixed the CW Dark Hunter with the Unseelie Dark Hunter? I can't blame you (the CW one is not very good), but I would have thought someone would try.

My second idea was to be a kobold and take Druid / Unseelie Dark Hunter / Arcane Heirophant, thus using WIS for arcane and divine spells and using the companion familiar as a mount. The kobold was for Slight Build, so I could ride Small critters if I wanted. This, of course, ran into two problems: First, do you use Arcane Heirophant to advance UDH casting but not max UDH, or do you sacrifice some of the dual progression? Second, why not just be, y'know, a Druid?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading these in detail. Good luck to everyone, and may the judges make us proud!

[Waker]

Zaq

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I considered going with the CW Dark Hunter, if for no other reason than to be silly." I am the Darkest Hunter!"

[gbprime]

I'm actually not surprised that nobody took no-wildshape Druid as a base. Judges would likely rip such a thing for power. (Why take this PrC when more levels of Druid could rule the universe?)

I am surprised that nobody tried to qualify with scout. The movement boost was synergistic at least.

My 2nd idea was an Equiceph Scout using Improved Skirmish and Bounding Assault. But I ran out of time.

[Waker]

gbprime

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I didn't expect to see many spellcasters in this competition, since the prc doesn't advance it. The lack of scouts is something of a surprise, but the Fast Movement thing probably wouldn't work. The Dark Hunter is a 3.0 prc, but nowadays classes don't stack Fast Movement together since it's an enhancement bonus.

[Cieyrin]

gbprime

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I didn't expect to see many spellcasters in this competition, since the prc doesn't advance it. The lack of scouts is something of a surprise, but the Fast Movement thing probably wouldn't work. The Dark Hunter is a 3.0 prc, but nowadays classes don't stack Fast Movement together since it's an enhancement bonus.

Not always, there are quite a few common ones that are untyped.

[Waker]

Not always, there are quite a few common ones that are untyped.

What ones? I'm not recalling all that many classes that grant Fast Movement.

[Cieyrin]

What ones? I'm not recalling all that many classes that grant Fast Movement.

Barbarian and Celerity domain come immediately to mind.

[Draz74]

Freedom Mantle, too, IIRC. And then the Speed of Thought feat is an Insight bonus.

[Waker]

Barbarian I was aware of. I always forget the Celerity domain since it's a domain not associated with any gods. Anyways, I suppose I should have phrased my statement as most classes that grant fast movement don't stack as opposed to a blanket statement for all classes.

[Cieyrin]

I always forget the Celerity domain since it's a domain not associated with any gods.

How do you mean? It's associated with Baervan Wildwander, Brandobaris, Corellon Larethian, Ehlonna, Erevan Ilesere, Fharlaghn, Grankhul, Huhueuteotl, Istus, Labelas Enoreth, Olidammara, Rillifane Rallathil, Sheela Peryroyl, Solonor Thelandira, Vhaeraun, Xan Yae and Zuoken of the Greyhawk gods. Can't really say about any other campaign setting's pantheon, though.

[Talbot]

I'll start my judging tonight, but I was actually pleasantly surprised by how many builds didn't use Ranger moreso than I was annoyed or disappointed by the ones who did; it's a logical entrance, after all.

[Thurbane]

He creeps the steps and floor... final darkness.

Every time I hear the name "The Creeper" I think of this song.

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I was expecting to see a lot more Swordsage or Monk for WIS to AC. I was also expecting more Beastheart Adept, to pick up hounds or mounts.

[dextercorvia]

Barbarian I was aware of. I always forget the Celerity domain since it's a domain not associated with any gods. Anyways, I suppose I should have phrased my statement as most classes that grant fast movement don't stack as opposed to a blanket statement for all classes.

Fist of the Forest (CC) grants Fast Movement, and arguably explicitly makes all of your Fast Movement abilities stack.

[kestrel404]

My only other idea:

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Swordsage 7/UDH 6/JPM 5/Swordsage +2
The idea here is Wis synergy and stacked fast movement leading (ultimately) up to the Tornado Throw maneuver at level 20
Problem was that you can't get a 9th level maneuver with more than 6 levels in non-initiator classes and the build's 'sweet spot' is 20th level.

[OMG PONIES]

I had two ideas I didn't submit. The first was a monk/bloodhound build focused on Fast Movement, tracking, and nonlethal damage. The second was a swordsage/psywar/JPM focusing on maneuver spam via psychic renewal+hustle+psychic meditation. The first reminded me too much of a previous entry of mine (Dymphna, to be precise) whereas I abandoned the second for fear of unoriginality.

[gbprime]

Not always, there are quite a few common ones that are untyped.

And in this case, it works, since the Dark Hunter's movement bonuses are untyped. They'd stack with a scout's enhancement bonus, for example.

[Nerdanel]

I was thinking of making a ranger-based horse archer... riding a nightmare as mentioned in the article for the Unseelie Dark Hunter. I was thinking of maybe dipping into Arcane Archer after that since I met the prerequisites.

Unfortunately, a nightmare turned out to be unattainable. I can't get one as a gift from the Queen of Air and Darkness for being her dark hunter, and I can't get one from Leadership since that's banned. (Leadership would have been terribly MAD but it would have been worth it.) There are all sorts of neat (read: overpowered) tricks you could do with a nightmare. A horse or griffon just doesn't compare. That made me so depressed I dropped the build. I'm not surprised to see plenty of non-SRD content in other people's submissions.

[gbprime]

Yeah, without some way to pick one up as a cohort, you're left with just a Figurine o' Wondrous Power (Obsidian Steed). Sure, it gets the job done... but only once a week.

[true_shinken]

Yeah, without some way to pick one up as a cohort, you're left with just a Figurine o' Wondrous Power (Obsidian Steed). Sure, it gets the job done... but only once a week.

You could use summoning spells, mount or phantom steed as well.

[Cieyrin]

You could use summoning spells, mount or phantom steed as well.

Can you say Planar Binding?

[OMG PONIES]

Can you say Planar Binding?

Okay, you bound me, foolish human. Let's talk--what do you want in exchange for my freedom?
Let me ride you?

I can just see it now.

[gbprime]

Okay, you bound me, foolish human. Let's talk--what do you want in exchange for my freedom?
Let me ride you?

I can just see it now.

It was expensive, but the Nightmare served faithfully for 7 days as bargained. On the 8th day, it Plane Shifted me to Carceri and now we're negotiating again...

[true_shinken]

Okay, you bound me, foolish human. Let's talk--what do you want in exchange for my freedom?
Let me ride you?

I can just see it now.

Reminds me of...

[dextercorvia]

If anyone is curious, I'm about a third of the way done with judging. Some of these builds are much more difficult to judge than others. My thanks to those who not only listed their sources, but what came from each source.

[OMG PONIES]

Thanks for the update, dex! How are the other judges doing?

[Thurbane]

One build I briefly considered was a Jermlaine Ranger/Beastheart Adept/UDH...but depite having great WIS and DEX modifiers, their STR penalty was too big to inflict much damage...and the CHA penalty kind of hurt Handle Animal shennanigans...