500 Goblins and only 3 PC's

[zoobob9]

Ok, so we're protecting a town. The gate is fortified as well as they can, but there is a tunnel that leads to the middle of the city from the sewers. 500 goblins are coming our way, as well as any surprise monsters, and there are only 3 of us defending there. The tunnel is a half hours full sprint at 30 feet, and 10 feet wide. 2 of the 3 of us are level 6; a dwarf fighter and a human barbarian. I, a human sorcerer, am leveling up before next meet. My stats as of now:

• level 5
• str 10
• dex 13
• con 15, 17 with ioun stone
• int 12
• wis 10
• cha 19
• fort 3
• reflex 2
• will 4
• base attack 2
• ac 11, 10 flat footed
• 42 hitpoints, soon to be 50
• adamantine dagger (1d4, +2)
• 3 immovable rods between us

My spells are:

0:

• dancing lights
• acid splash
• light
• flare
• ray of frost
• caltrops

1:

• ray of flame
• mage armor
• corrosive grasp
• burning hands

2:

• false life
• scorching ray

Not all 500 goblins may take this tunnel, maybe none of them will. Its dark and our only light is any light spells I cast (they last one hour if I take another level in sorcerer.) Two people may somehow help us, or they might be helping the south gate. We are unsure whether or not there are any archers or if the goblins are exclusively foot soldiers. The sewer will be closed off after I go back through it, but if we fail then the goblins may still break through. During the fight, there will be times to restore spell slots.

Now, heres the question: Should I take another class of sorcerer? If so, what spells? If not, what instead?

Pros of Sorcerer:

• XP cost if I choose otherwise for any class
• Stronger spells, including access to 3rd level
• More daily spells

Cons of Sorcerer:

• Crappy hit dice
• Almost no melee combat
• We have no healer
• No use at all without spells

For the spells I add I was thinking:

• 0: Resistance (for obvious reasons)
• 3: Lightning Bolt

Thoughts?

[Kylarra]

Are we assuming something like 1hd goblins all trying to get in? You could do something like shrink item shenanigans to block the tunnel for now. Or the ever amusing Explosive runes.

No matter what you choose as your spell, you're probably best off taking that 6th level of Sorc.

[Greenish]

You might want to pick a reserve feat as your 6th level feat. What feats do you have?

Picking another base class isn't worth it, more than likely, but a PrC might do, depending on whether you can enter one (probably not, sorcerers are a bit shafted in that department).

If you want more melee prowess, pick Haste as your 3rd level spell (not a bad idea in any case) and then look into going to swiftblade. Won't help you in this fight, though.

[zoobob9]

My feats weren't a great choice: toughness, improved initiative, and persuasive. I have no idea what feat to take, it hadn't occurred that I would get one. Blocking the tunnel wouldn't help any more than what has already been done. Explosive runes assumes that the goblins can read common and will read the runes. We were given no other description besides 500 goblins. A druid may be with them, but she is severely injured.

[myancey]

Yeah, check and see if you qualify for Fiery Burst, the reserve feat. And yeah, take 6th level as sorcerer. That's when you get 3rd level spells and can rock with fireball. Area effect stuff might allow you to win the day.

[IthroZada]

Get the NPCs to help you, a whole bunch of readied action spears and flanking bonuses can do wonders. I'd maybe also consider lining the tunnel with caltrops.

[zoobob9]

Caltrops are a good idea, but they may not last. I will still try it.

Which book is Firey Burst in?

NPC cannot access the sewer; we tried to get a 6th level wizard to help but it was closed off 5 minutes before he contacted us.

[Cog]

Which book is Firey Burst in?

Complete Mage. A handy reference.

[Epsilon Rose]

Is there a reason not to simply sap the tunnle (if you can rig it just right you could even let them get partially through before collapsing it and I'm sure you've heard the saying about falling rocks).

[Eldariel]

1) 100% take Sorcerer. You're 5 levels in; no point turning back now. Higher level spells are everything.
2) Stinking Cloud is an exceedingly useful 3rd level spell in enclosed spaces. It's also great in normal encounters. I suggest picking it up.
3) Web from level 2 would be a great spell to have access to also; it lasts a long time and pretty much makes a passage impossible for the adversaries to traverse.
4) Pack a lot of Alchemist's Fires. Well, as many as you can get access to anyways. They're a perfectly reasonable form of offense for a caster and don't spend spellslots (sparse resources against 500). They should reliably kill a Goblin in the first shot + next turn damage and the collateral doesn't hurt.


For healing, you're Charisma-based; you could learn cross-class Use Magic Device to use Wands of Cure Light Wounds. It'll be unreliable but you should get reasonable amounts of healing done daily with a Wand with your present ranks and couple of levels in (you could have +9 next level), you'll be looking at 50/50 odds each activation.

[Greenish]

Yeah, check and see if you qualify for Fiery Burst, the reserve feat.

It only requires 2nd level spells, so yeah. Fiery Burst is from Complete Arcane.

Taking Fireball would pump Fiery Burst's damage to 3d6, which isn't bad for at will, especially against hordes of (assumedly) weak enemies.

Though personally I feel that you already have too many fire-based blasting spells. As a sorcerer you should be careful to avoid redundancy.

[Lonely Tylenol]

It only requires 2nd level spells, so yeah. Fiery Burst is from Complete Arcane.

Taking Fireball would pump Fiery Burst's damage to 3d6, which isn't bad for at will, especially against hordes of (assumedly) weak enemies.

Though personally I feel that you already have too many fire-based blasting spells. As a sorcerer you should be careful to avoid redundancy.

If I was a Sorcerer that was depending on a reserve feat, I'd probably be picking the highest-level Fire spell available to me by default, and swapping out the obsolete ones (like Burning Hands) for spells that have more high-level utility (such as Enlarge Person, considering your party makeup) at even levels.

That said: For a blaster, Fireball is more or less a staple, unless you're pumping metamagics into something else, but I've found that melee-heavy parties tend to suffer from it unless you have Sculpt Spell or the equivalent (like the Archmage High Arcana ability). If you go the Reserve Feat route, however, this is a no-brainer.

Outside of that, there are certain spells that are just undeniably good for what you need to do now (such as Haste/Slow, Heroism, and the like). 18 rounds of haste in a day for your entire party can mean 36 extra attacks for your two beaters, which can be life-saving in a big field (where 18 rounds of uninterrupted combat are a possibility). The +1 to attack rolls and AC are good too, and Haste alone paves the way for Swiftblade, as mentioned. Slow makes enemies useless, but against low-HD creatures like Goblins, it's probably not as useful (because 1 rd/lvl can just as easily mean 1 rd). Snake's Swiftness, Mass also allows your party members additional attacks, but they don't stack with Haste, which is most certainly better (as it gives additional attacks for multiple rounds). Heroism increases the quality of each attack your party makes, which is absolutely critical because your Fighter and Barbarian have just entered the level where they get more than one attack per round. Remember that action economy means quality of actions, not just quantity. You'll get multiple castings of it at level 6, and each one will last an hour for +2 attack and save bonuses.

[OverdrivePrime]

2 questions:
1) do either of the warriors in your party have cleave or great cleave? This is one of the few instances where it'd be useful.
2) if so, do you have the possibility of learning Enlarge Person, or getting 2 scrolls of enlarge person? That'll help your friends pwn the zone.

And like everyone else, I say grab that 6th level of sorcerer. Level 3 spells are where you start being a real force to be reckoned with. If your DM allows reserve feats, take fireball. If not, take Lightning bolt and position yourself in that tunnel. And like the other said, Stinking Cloud is delightful.

[Jack_Simth]

At level 6:
Take Fireball (for this specific instance)
Use the Sorcerer swap-out to replace Burning Hands with Enlarge Person
Take Fiery Burst (Complete Mage) for your reserve feat.

Fireball: Because it has a very large range, a decent area, and will power Fiery Burst.
Enlarge Person: For the melee members of the party. Reach + More Damage.
Fiery Burst: +1 caster level for your Fireball, and as long as you don't expend your last 3rd level spell slot, also lets you use mini fireballs at will (see the feat description for details) which will be very useful against hordes of mooks.

[gallagher]

ok, the 3 immovable rods are going to come in useful. so will caltrops. this is what you do.

have commoners help you fortify the sewers. any intelligent military strategist would attempt to get forces behind the walls. a siege of 500 would not last that long against archers, oil being dumped, and alchemist fire, with you guys on the ground (and you along the wall of course), so they obviously will send a contingent down there. their main force will still attack the wall so as to pose a serious enough threat that you cant focus on the tunnel

rig up a barrier in the tunnel that you will post as many guards/commoners as possible behind. have the commoners throw as many caltrops as possible in front of it beforehand, have a few pikemen, a few sordsmen, and a few archers. strategy there will win the day. heck, a first level rogue with a high hide modifier would make a huge difference down there

[zoobob9]

These suggestions about scrolls and reinforcements are great, but its sealed off and done. Its our 3 versus their 500. We have what we have.

[myancey]

Good luck meng.

Edit: Gotta say though, if you could have afforded a move earth scroll or a stone to mud scroll and then a mud to stone, that would have been way wicked.

Tons of goblins falling to their deaths. Or suddenly swimming in a big pool of mud only to be fully encompassed in stone six seconds later. Heh, classic.

[AsteriskAmp]

These suggestions about scrolls and reinforcements are great, but its sealed off and done. Its our 3 versus their 500. We have what we have.

If it is sealed, how are you expecting to exit, and in the case you do, survive?
You'll probably burn all of your resourced on the fight and nothing assures you a safe exit through the other end.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Stinking Cloud. Turn that tunnel into a charnel pit.

[myancey]

Stinking Cloud. Turn that tunnel into a charnel pit.

That is a pretty rockin' cloud...and if you were a necromancer...think of the zombie potential. Man..I wish my DM would set me up with this sort of opportunity...

[zoobob9]

We would go out the other end. There is no guarantee, but its the only chance we've got.

[Jarveiyan]

What resources do you guys already have down there to help(gear wise)? Is this druid going to be a friend or foe? And what are those 2 guys you might be getting going to be? Answering questions like these will help us help you with this tactical problem. I could throw ideas out there for you, but it would be like making shots in the dark if I don't know what's going on(that means every detail, even miniscule ones). Also what books can are you allowed to use?

[AsteriskAmp]

We would go out the other end. There is no guarantee, but its the only chance we've got.

That rules out producing a cave in since you too would get trapped, also, you may want to abstain from long lasting area effects, since you could also hamper your exit.

Also, I believe getting grease would be useful, almost nothing has ranks in balance, and the area of effect means you can pretty much block the tunnel with goblins on the floor, unable to move.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

We would go out the other end. There is no guarantee, but its the only chance we've got.

You misunderstand.

You have a choke-point they have to go through to get to you. Your tank stands on the other side of it, plus stinking cloud in the choke-point, means goblins that can't attack your tank, and lets him pretty much get free shots all day long until either the entrance is blocked by the goblin bodies, they run away, or you run out of goblins.

[Vizzerdrix]

These suggestions about scrolls and reinforcements are great, but its sealed off and done. Its our 3 versus their 500. We have what we have.

What if you had a way to make more troops for your side then? I know a 3rd level spell that'll get you some mooks. They aren't great, but you can make a lot of them per casting. It's called Create Crawling Claw. It's in Monster of Faerun. Basically, you turn severed hands into Thing from the Adam's Family. You'll get as many cr 1/3 (same cr as a goblin) constructs as you can get hands, and they'll deal extra damage to anything that is prone.

Not a great option, but I thought I'd at least mention it to you.

[Jarveiyan]

My suggestions would be -
take another level of sorcerer, take lightning bolt for 3rd level spells, switch out burning hands or ray of flame for grease, and if possible take fiery burst.

The idea is this - use caltrops to injure and slow the goblins down, the grease right in front of your meleeist to make the enemy easier to hit, and LB should be self explanitory(120ft. even if the'yre medium creatures is 24 possible dead goblins), just to properly utilize your melee help means one of them will be in the way. Fiery burst will be useful if you can keep 2nd lvl spell slots(2d6 should still kill enough to be useful). As for the light issue - you don't have torches or everburning torches? If not use light. That's just a few ideas thrown out there.

[blazingshadow]

wouldn't lightning bolt solve the problem? lure the goblins into the tunnel and zap as many of them at once with probably no chance of avoiding it. the spell zaps every guy behind as long as they are in range and lined up

[faceroll]

Everyone get tower shields. 500 goblins shooting at you with ranged weapons will kill you VERY quickly, even if they're only hitting on crits.

[Yora]

The downside of lightning bolt is, that you can't cast it from the second line of defense and you have to get in the front to cast it without hitting the other PCs. Fireball does not have that restriction.
Also, there's a chance the PCs don't all die and they continue adventuring, then you're stuck with the spell you picked. Stinking Cloud really is an awesome spell that will be very useful right now, but also later.

[Coidzor]

...If they could seal it off so the gobbos couldn't get in, then why are you in there?

But, yeah, erect some kind of staggered barricade to create a choke point if at all possible, I'd say, so the goblins that come down can't get ranged access to you all, and when they physically approach you, they have your melee guy right there.