Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Renegade Paladin]

No. Since the Battlewagon is not part of Snikrot's unit. They are separate units entries. Snikrot has a specific rule for his unit. A Battlewagon is a separate unit for all intents and purposes.

When embarking in a non-Dedicated Transport, you can usually do that because neither unit (Infantry nor Vehicle) has any special rules that say that they can't do that, as in, everything enters as normal Reserves.

Scouts and Land Speeder Storms can go Outflank at the same time because both have the same rules, and that's how they can be deployed together.

But if they're separate units for all intents and purposes, what happens when the scouts become available in reserves and their speeder doesn't?

[Cheesegear]

But if they're separate units for all intents and purposes, what happens when the scouts become available in reserves and their speeder doesn't?

Well, er...Hey. Yeah.
I'm sure I'll make a lot of friends when I bring that up next game...

[Ogremindes]

Do you even roll separately if they're embarked?

[Ricky S]

Do you even roll separately if they're embarked?

No you dont. So there shouldn't be a problem at all. I think you guys might be reading into the RAW a little too much.

[Sila Prirode]

Mission special rules, Reserves, page 94 in my rulebook:
"player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together."

So, as I'm reading it, they are still separate units, but they roll together and arrive together, so no Snikrot stuff, but Scouts can come with Speeders.

[Hawkfrost000]

Hey guys, im back!

anyway, I finally bashed out a list for my Infantry Guard.

What do you think?

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Fearbringers
Company Command Squad
Power Weapon
MediPack
Vox Caster
2 Plasmaguns
125

Troops

Infantry Platoon 1: 320

Platoon Command
Vox Caster
Lascannon
2 Grenade Launchers
65

Infantry Squad
Commisar w Power Weapon
Lascannon
115

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry squad 2: 220

Platoon Command
Vox Caster
Autocannon
2 Grenade Launchers
55

Infantry Squad
Commisar w Power Weapon
Autocannon
105

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Heavy Support

Skullhammer
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Lascannon
185

Xerkor Tormentor
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Lascannon
185

Leman Russ Demolisher
Plasma Sponsons
Dozer Blade
215

1250pts

Comments, questions and advice are all welcome!

DM

[FlyingScanian]

Hey guys, im back!

anyway, I finally bashed out a list for my Infantry Guard.

What do you think?

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Fearbringers
Company Command Squad
Power Weapon
MediPack
Vox Caster
2 Plasmaguns
125

Troops

Infantry Platoon 1: 320

Platoon Command
Vox Caster
Lascannon
2 Grenade Launchers
65

Infantry Squad
Commisar w Power Weapon
Lascannon
115

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry squad 2: 220

Platoon Command
Vox Caster
Autocannon
2 Grenade Launchers
55

Infantry Squad
Commisar w Power Weapon
Autocannon
105

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Heavy Support

Skullhammer
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Lascannon
185

Xerkor Tormentor
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Lascannon
185

Leman Russ Demolisher
Plasma Sponsons
Dozer Blade
215

1250pts

Comments, questions and advice are all welcome!

DM

I see one thing immediately: You have the setup for a vox net, but nowhere for it to go. You need voxes in your infantry squads as well (don't ask me how to achieve that, but the 15pts on voxes currently is wasted if you do not)

[Tome]

If the company command squad is actually using that Power Weapon, then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. That gives enough points to, assuming you're going to be using combined squads, gives Voxes to both platoons.

[FlyingScanian]

If the company command squad is actually using that Power Weapon, then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong. That gives enough points to, assuming you're going to be using combined squads, gives Voxes to both platoons.

Huh, I didn't even see that power weapon. My brain must have though the eyes were decieving it. But indeed, a CCS in close combat (unless very much specifically designed for it with Straken, and probably even then) is a dead CCS, which gives you nothing....

[hamishspence]

I'm wondering- with Citadel Finecast, is it likely that GW will redo some of their old games, with Finecast models?

Epic Armageddon, Battlefleet Gothic, and so on?

I'd really like to see a more combined gaming system- maybe tying the Aeronautica & Epic rules together, perhaps focusing on starfighter-to-ground attacks as well.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'd really like to see a more combined gaming system- maybe tying the Aeronautica & Epic rules together, perhaps focusing on starfighter-to-ground attacks as well.

Epic has aircraft rules anyway. Adding more complicated ones would overcomplicate things to the point you might as well play a pre-Warhammer strategy game.

[Renegade Paladin]

Mission special rules, Reserves, page 94 in my rulebook:
"player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together."

Yes, that's what I was getting at; Cheesegear just ran the opposite direction with it. They aren't separate units for all intents and purposes; they're rolled for together in reserves, which is a purpose for which they're treated as the same unit.

[hamishspence]

Maybe. Still, the Aeronautica rules aren't ridiculously complex.

And the models use the same scale.

[Trixie]

I'm wondering- with Citadel Finecast, is it likely that GW will redo some of their old games, with Finecast models?

Epic Armageddon, Battlefleet Gothic, and so on?

I'd really like to see a more combined gaming system- maybe tying the Aeronautica & Epic rules together, perhaps focusing on starfighter-to-ground attacks as well.

They'll brings the Squats back first, IMHO. The only way I see that happening is new edition of these games, plus re-sculpts, I don't think they'll find the effort viable otherwise.

[hamishspence]

Rogue Trader and it's cousins seem to be heading that way though- rules for everything from individual soldiers to capital ships.

[Sila Prirode]

Yes, that's what I was getting at; Cheesegear just ran the opposite direction with it. They aren't separate units for all intents and purposes; they're rolled for together in reserves, which is a purpose for which they're treated as the same unit.

When we are on the subject, how would you treat outflanking Chaos Chosen in a Rhino? Because I heard arguments against it by people who list Scouts and Speeders as proof that both the vehicle and unit must be able to Outflank. I don't get the idea of that, because outflanking is special reserve move that can be done by any unit with Scout or Infiltrate, and their dedicated transport. But not by any other transport (Land raider, in this case).

[Renegade Paladin]

Can Chaos Chosen take a Rhino as a dedicated transport? If so, they may outflank with it, as long as they're embarked in it. The rules are quite clear on this.

Also, if a transport vehicle has Scout or Infiltrate, it can outflank with troops embarked, even if the transported unit doesn't have either rule.

[Ninja Chocobo]

I'm wondering- with Citadel Finecast, is it likely that GW will redo some of their old games, with Finecast models?

Epic Armageddon, Battlefleet Gothic, and so on?

I'd really like to see a more combined gaming system- maybe tying the Aeronautica & Epic rules together, perhaps focusing on starfighter-to-ground attacks as well.

Given that Forgeworld does quite a few BFG models, as well as a handful of Epic and Aeronautica, outlook not so good.
Aeronautica is at the same scale of Epic though, so that's possible.

They'll brings the Squats back first, IMHO. The only way I see that happening is new edition of these games, plus re-sculpts, I don't think they'll find the effort viable otherwise.

GW really, really wants us to forget Squats exist/ed.
If we get Space Dwarves again, it'll be in the form of Tau Auxilliary Demiurg, who may well be in Finecast, once the Tau codex gets done.

[Renegade Paladin]

GW really, really wants us to forget Squats exist/ed.

To the Warp with that; if they expect us to believe that the Tyranids somehow managed to get every single member of an abhuman race that was highly technologically advanced and, this is the important part, plied the stars in great numbers at long distances, they need to rethink their method of wiping out the Squats.

[hamishspence]

Given that Forgeworld does quite a few BFG models, as well as a handful of Epic and Aeronautica, outlook not so good.

I was kinda hoping Finecast was a symptom that GW would be making more use of stuff that was Forgeworld-only- since they're both resin- maybe stuff that was Forgeworld becomes Finecast.

To the Warp with that; if they expect us to believe that the Tyranids somehow managed to get every single member of an abhuman race that was highly technologically advanced and, this is the important part, plied the stars in great numbers at long distances, they need to rethink their method of wiping out the Squats.

Quite apart from the fact that Squat Space was the galactic core- and none of the Hive Fleets have gotten that far into the galaxy.

[Ricky S]

I never really understood why they dont let you talk about squats. It doesn't seem to make sense at all. Sure they are not in the game anymore but couldnt you still talk about them? Fluffwise the squats were eaten by tyranids weren't they?

Also I was talking to a gw employee about chapter companies and legion sizes, anyway, I mentioned the space wolves 13th company and they were like "Shhh... We don't talk about them". Lol why not? Wulfen were awesome back in the day.

Other fun stuff that I learnt today is that mechanising is amazing! Especially with blood angels. Baal predators rock as well. They really do cut down the enemy.

[deuterio12]

Rogue Trader and it's cousins seem to be heading that way though- rules for everything from individual soldiers to capital ships.

Yet, no rules for something as simple as you just using your ship to nuke that enemy city, forcing you to get out and risk your skin to get the job done. On the other hand, that's what happens in 40K stories 99% of the time so nevermind it.

[hamishspence]

There's rules for nukes in Battlefleet Koronus. And it mentions a single nuke can destroy one hive spire.

It also discusses using armies, and bombarding them with lance or battery salvoes.

[Renegade Paladin]

Also I was talking to a gw employee about chapter companies and legion sizes, anyway, I mentioned the space wolves 13th company and they were like "Shhh... We don't talk about them".

lolwut?

[Tarinaky]

To the Warp with that; if they expect us to believe that the Tyranids somehow managed to get every single member of an abhuman race that was highly technologically advanced and, this is the important part, plied the stars in great numbers at long distances, they need to rethink their method of wiping out the Squats.

"In fealty to the God Emperor, our undying lord and the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare the Retcon of the Squats, I hereby sentence to death a whole empire and consign a billion souls to oblivion. Remember always brothers, the Emperor Protects"

[HalfTangible]

Judging from how Warhammer's entire universe is out to kill every other part, and that the squats don't really need to be entirely wiped out, just rendered incapable of fighting, their retcon wouldn't be that hard to pull off.

"In fealty to the God Emperor, our undying lord and the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare the Retcon of the Squats, I hereby sentence to death a whole empire and consign a billion souls to oblivion. Remember always brothers, the Emperor Protects"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67JpMyrOVE

"It is human nature to seek culpability in times of tragedy. It is a sign of strength to cry out against fate, rather than to bow one's head and succumb. Inevitably many shall fault the hands on the sword which felled the Squats... The Games Workshop. But GW merely performs the charge of a buisness. To further be annoyed by them is redundant. To boycott them, stupid."

"Those more sensible will place fault on those who forced the hand of the Games Workshop. With some fortune, they may foster their mourning into purpose, and further rule their finances by selling their squats as collector's items on Ebay."

"Yet ultimately, it was you and I who set these events into motion... With a single choice to not buy squats."

May they be remembered fondly.

[Ricky S]

lolwut?

Now I am confused.

[Sila Prirode]

Can Chaos Chosen take a Rhino as a dedicated transport? If so, they may outflank with it, as long as they're embarked in it. The rules are quite clear on this.

Also, if a transport vehicle has Scout or Infiltrate, it can outflank with troops embarked, even if the transported unit doesn't have either rule.

Yeah, I am well aware of that, but there were some people back there, and their argument was: "Well, in SM codex only Scouts can outflank anyways, and Speeders have Scout too, so it makes sense that they errata'd that only if both of them have the same rule then they can outflank." I was baffled.

[Hawkfrost000]

I see one thing immediately: You have the setup for a vox net, but nowhere for it to go. You need voxes in your infantry squads as well (don't ask me how to achieve that, but the 15pts on voxes currently is wasted if you do not)

Thanks for catching that

List 1.5!

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Fearbringers
Company Command Squad
MediPack
Vox Caster
2 Plasmaguns
115

Troops

Infantry Platoon 1: 320

Platoon Command
Vox Caster
Lascannon
2 Grenade Launchers
65

Infantry Squad
Commisar w Power Weapon
Lascannon
Vox Caster
120

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry squad 2: 220

Platoon Command
Vox Caster
Autocannon
2 Grenade Launchers
55

Infantry Squad
Commisar w Power Weapon
Autocannon
Vox Caster
110

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Heavy Support

Skullhammer
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Lascannon
185

Xerkor Tormentor
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Lascannon
185

Leman Russ Demolisher
Plasma Sponsons
Dozer Blade
215

1250pts

C&C welcome as always

DM

[Wraith]

May they be remembered fondly.

Though I just about remember Squats first-hand, I have a close friend who really DOES remember "The Good Old Days" and has recalled them in a way that has confirmed for me what were once just personal suspicions, and please believe me when I say sincerely that I'm not just trying to start a controversy or flame the place up in any way.....

But.

Everything - from their rules to their models and everything in between - left only one thing clear: The Squats deserved to die in the worst way imaginable. Ending up as Termagaunt excrement was too good for them.