MS Paint Adventures 4: 13

[BRC]

And to be fair, Gamzee was the calm half of the equation before the stupor slime ran out.

Eh, Stoned Gamzee probably didn't have enough force of personality to be an effective Moirail, then again, Karkat was never really in need of a Moirail, most of his abrasive personality came from insecurity due to his blood color, rather than violent tendencies.
Really, of the Trolls we know (Pre Sober-Gamzee), the only real <> relationships are Equius/Nepeta (My belief is that Equius was actually the stabilizing force there. He Seems more violent, but in their relationship he was the one giving the orders, and Nepeta was far more violence-happy (She had to get those paints from somewhere)), Kanaya/Vriska, and Feferi/Eridan.

[Friv]

One of the things that seems to divide the fans a bit is Gamzee and whether he should be forgiven. Does anyone have any opinion on this?

Gamzee isn't a human - this really needs to be taken into account for the subject matter.

When Karkat and Equius discussed Gamzee becoming sober, Equius made it very clear that psychotic rampages were a common part of the process for trolls of Gamzee's blood type, and that they were usually handled very carefully and delicately because of that. Without the resources to do this, it is entirely possible that a minimum of one murder was essentially inevitable. Karkat had the resources to stop this rampage, but he didn't have the knowledge that it was possible to do so until he took a very big risk (which worked).

With that in mind, I think the whole thing could reasonably be chalked up to being a horrible, tragic accident. Trolls are ultra-aggressive not just socially, but physically. They literally have a form of romance based on hatred, which is required for their species to survive. A lot of the things that they do can, in fact, be excused because of this.

Really, of the Trolls we know (Pre Sober-Gamzee), the only real <> relationships are Equius/Nepeta (My belief is that Equius was actually the stabilizing force there. He Seems more violent, but in their relationship he was the one giving the orders, and Nepeta was far more violence-happy (She had to get those paints from somewhere)), Kanaya/Vriska, and Feferi/Eridan.

I think in a functioning moirail relationship, both trolls are supposed to restrain each other, but I'm not totally sure about that. I feel like one of the reasons that Equius and Nepeta worked so well together was that they did just that; each one looked out for and restrained the other when necessary.

[Trobby]

It is worth noting that, without Equius keeping her on the track to being a well-mannered young lady, she would likely be far more feral and violent.

Which, in fact, is exactly what she did when she saw Equius die.

Not to suggest that she should have been complacent in Gamzee's massacre, but consider that she would be exactly this feral and wild all of the time if she did not have to worry about Equius's approval.

She would likely have been culled, if not in defense from a more powerful and combat-trained troll or from revenge for her attacks, then for her inability to politely associate with those who expect some modicum of civility.

It is by no means the "fun" side to be on in moirailligiance, but it is nevertheless just as important.

[Sipex]

A friend of mine just caught up and came up with the following theory.

UraniumUmbra is some sort of incarnation of Rose (be it Beta Rose, Adult Rose or whatever)

Why? Well the beta kids handles (except John, who changed his) are all based off combinations of nucleotides used in DNA. These are Adenine (A), Thymine (T), Guanine (G) and Cytosine (C).

So, besides John who changed his (EB) we have Dave (TG), Rose (TT) and Jade (GG).

Now, U doesn't exist in DNA when observed this way, however, we take a look at RNA. RNA uses the same nucleotides EXCEPT Thymine (T) is swapped with Urinal (U).

If we do that, Rose's handle changes to UU.

He's not sure where Uranium could fit in yet but Umbra could be Rose purposefully contradicting her Hero or light status OR it could be a reference to her going grimdark.

[irenicObserver]

I'm not sure one can say she acted more feral after he died since that's pretty much how she's always acted (pouncing and whatnot). I'd say that while she is feral, she's pretty nice for a troll and Equius benefitted more from the relationship as highbloods have a greater tendency to rage and frankly Equius would have a number of things to rage about with his STRENGTH.

Now Gamzee...I don't care about the objective facts, Gamzee is awesome and makes me laugh* so I say he should be forgiven (and it's not like he was in his right mind anyway)

It's kind of like what this one guy said, that you could be sitting next to a jerkass psychopath and not care as long as he made you laugh (referring to the Joker)

EDIT:(to be honest with you I have a lot to get out so sorry if this isn't very coherent or logical)

[tyckspoon]

A friend of mine just caught up and came up with the following theory.

UraniumUmbra is some sort of incarnation of Rose (be it Beta Rose, Adult Rose or whatever)

Interesting idea, but it requires completely ignoring that UU's communications so far are absurdly out of character for Rose. Also UU is/was a Prospit dreamer.

[Derjuin]

One of the things that seems to divide the fans a bit is Gamzee and whether he should be forgiven. Does anyone have any opinion on this?

While Gamzee certainly has to answer for it to an extent, I think the real fault was Karkat's for being such a crappy morail. Equius is a bit of a jerk, yes, but without Nepeta he'd have been even worse, and after Feferi un-morailed Eridan he did an acrobatic freakin' swan dive off the handle.

Admittedly, Karkat probably didn't know he needed to be a good morail coz Gamzee was stoned off his mind, but...

It's really difficult to say, and since we haven't really seen him doing stuff since Karkat gave him a big hug (besides inviting Tavros over for sloppy pbj makeouts i think?), I don't think I can give a concrete opinion. I think him feeling remorse of some kind (more than something like 'sOrRy BrO i GuEsS i JuSt SpAcEd OuT fOr A sEcOnd Do:') would be required for me to forgive him.

My wild-n-wacky partially incoherently-made fan theory for UU is that she is either Karkat or Karkat's ancestor pre-Alternian-scratch (weren't the ancestors and the young trolls originally all together as one group, and then the scratch not only flipped them, but separated them by a large span of years?) who changed her handle and might be transgender (M->F).

[AgentPaper]

Problem is we know that Karkat's ancestor is male, and UU is apparently female.

[irenicObserver]

but then there is the whole uranian part of his/her screenname and the history behind that.

[Derjuin]

Problem is we know that Karkat's ancestor is male, and UU is apparently female.

Basically what Irenic said/I ended my last post with; Uranian could refer to the 19th century usage of the word which included gender variants and other fun stuff.

[Gez]

Now, U doesn't exist in DNA when observed this way, however, we take a look at RNA. RNA uses the same nucleotides EXCEPT Thymine (T) is swapped with Urinal (U).

The word you wanted to use was Uracil; unless you need to pee of course.


Also, if we go from DNA to RNA, don't forget that they're reversed. Where the DNA says Thymine, the RNA says Adenine. So you could just as well as UU is AA -- Aradia Megido -- from a mirror universe.

Also if you come back a few pages ago you'll find a post of mine where I talk about UU, Karkat, Rose and Aradia. We're basically just repeating my points from then.

[Draconi Redfir]

The trolls and ancestors were never together in one session, they just switched places.


My personal theory for UU is that she's a descendent of the trolls/kids in whatever universe the kids create. Most likely scenario IMO since she’s a troll, not any we've seen, and stated to be in a separate universe. and as far as i know, inter-universe communication requires the two universi to be parent and chid.

[RebelRogue]

The trolls and ancestors were never together in one session, they just switched places.

There's both trolls and ancestors in post-scratch Alternia (and nothing seems to indicate this isn't also true of the pre-scratch one).

[Shadow of the Sun]

Regarding Nepeta and Equius: Nepeta might have been a lot more feral without him, but I'm not so sure. From what we've seen, the green bloods as a whole have something the rest of the trolls don't, which is actual sanity. Kanaya is the only troll Karkat seems to respect without reservations due to being the sanest; Terezi, while being a bit brutal and obsessed with law, does generally have the belief that she can't murder someone for no reason, unlike Vriska, Gamzee, and Eridan, and is pretty much all there in the head, and Nepeta, while brutally murdering the beasts of Alternia seems to be more interested in shipping and RP than murdering people.

[Draconi Redfir]

There's both trolls and ancestors in post-scratch Alternia (and nothing seems to indicate this isn't also true of the pre-scratch one).

In Alternia yes, but not playing the game itself.


From what we've seen there’s a simple pattern, X number of players 1/2 of which is male and 1/2 of which is female (or evenly split with whatever genders may exist i.e. one third male one third female one third incubate for a tri-gendered species) and they are the ones who play the game. there are also X number of parents matching the gender-split who also exist, they may enter the medium with the players, but they themselves are not players (Unless a Scratch has/will happen(d)). Most likely their role is in either providing genetic information/diversity of the players, and/or guiding the players in any way they can to ensure they fulfil their role in the game, even if the parent is not aware of it.

And yes I know I am using the word gender wrong, I just prefer it to the proper word because of reasons.

[RebelRogue]

In Alternia yes, but not playing the game itself.

Ah... I see.

[Derjuin]

Terezi, while being a bit brutal and obsessed with law, does generally have the belief that she can't murder someone for no reason,

Remember that Alternian law is pretty corrupt, and I would place bets on it being rather draconian as well. I'm fairly certain Terezi says something about it herself back near her intro; something along the lines of "guilty until proven innocent".

unlike Vriska,

oh hi can of worms

I'm pretty sure Karkat called both of them psychoes playing murder mindgames before, when he was talking to Dave/John in the same memo. Also, I don't know if you remember them (most people seem to have skipped them or forgot them?), but the conversations between John and Vriska just after she kills Tavros tell us that she does have a reason for practically all of the murders that took place on Alternia. "If I don't feed her, she would eat me, or die and then I'd be culled" sounds like a pretty good reason to me, considering the circumstances and society.

She had a lot of things going on in her head (ego issues, legacy/social expectations/anxiety issues, anger, depression and impulse control, probably more), but I wouldn't label her "insane". It's actually hard to label any of the trolls as "insane", but I think "down to earth" would fit Kanaya and possibly the other bourgeois-and-below bloods.

S'just my opinion though. Feel free to ignore and all that jazz.

[Fawkes]

Personally, I don't think it's a matter of whether they needed to punished or forgiven - Eridan and Vriska were killed because they were liabilities, and were going to continue endangering the others. Eridan had given up and was going to sell them out to Jack Noir, and anyone who might have been able to talk him out of it was already dead. Vriska was going to get herself killed by Jack, and inadvertently lead him back to the others, and Terezi wasn't able to stop her non-violently.

Gamzee, on the other hand, simply went crazy. Karkat clearly thinks he can be rehabilitated, and won't continue to be a threat. Whether this turns out to be true or not, we have yet to see. Personally, I wouldn't feel too comfortable around Gamzee anytime soon.

[memnarch]

Whelp. That's pretty much confirmation of what's going to happen with this session ya?

[Inyssius Tor]

Whelp. That's pretty much confirmation of what's going to happen with this session ya?

Huh?

character limit wonders what you're talking about

[Midnight Lurker]

Eight towers around that frog temple. Hmmmm.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Eight towers around that frog temple. Hmmmm.

...this is going to be a joint session -- with Trolls & Kids playing one game.

We can see that the Trolls are being much friendlier, and lots of Alternia-stuff bleeding over to the Scratchverse. The Trolls haven't started their game yet either, and plan to play concurrently with the Kids.

This I have Foretold

[Midnight Lurker]

...this is going to be a joint session -- with Trolls & Kids playing one game.

We can see that the Trolls are being much friendlier, and lots of Alternia-stuff bleeding over to the Scratchverse. The Trolls haven't started their game yet either, and plan to play concurrently with the Kids.

This I have Foretold

It could be that there's a second frog temple somewhere on Earth and this will be another Mobius Double Reacharound with SIXTEEN players.

[TheArsenal]

Oooh. Dragon in the background.

[mp122984]

It could be that there's a second frog temple somewhere on Earth and this will be another Mobius Double Reacharound with SIXTEEN players.

Crazy speculation corollary: One frog temple, and the eight players will be post-scratch kids, post-scratch Dad, Rose, and Dave, and UU.

Crazier speculation corollary: Said sixteen players will be the prescratch-kids, the prescratch trolls (minus sollux), the post-scratch kids, and post-scratch Dad, Rose, and Dave.

[Draconi Redfir]

orrrr more likely Jake Jane Strider and Lalonde + John Jade Dave and Rose from pre-scratch.

[Lix Lorn]

It could be that there's a second frog temple somewhere on Earth and this will be another Mobius Double Reacharound with SIXTEEN players.

Hope so. xD
MOAR CHARACTERS

[Fayd]

Now, is the ninth pillar we see the one for Derse? Because I'm counting nine... I think that's right. I wonder though: What happens to the battlefield that Jade is bringing?

[Draconi Redfir]

Now, is the ninth pillar we see the one for Derse? Because I'm counting nine... I think that's right. I wonder though: What happens to the battlefield that Jade is bringing?

The frog on the temple represents skia, the temple then has a small brantch popping out of one side to represent Prospit. Then sepperate towers circle the frog to represent the lands, and finally one lone tower beyond the land towers to represent derse. So yes the 9th piller is for derse.

[memnarch]

Now, is the ninth pillar we see the one for Derse? Because I'm counting nine... I think that's right. I wonder though: What happens to the battlefield that Jade is bringing?

The one we can't see is Prospit, just based on looking at the past frog temples. It should be right next to the frog in the middle.