Results 1 to 27 of 27
-
2013-11-04, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Question about strip #484's speech balloons
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html
What is the correct order of speech balloons? And is there a general rule for whether vertical order takes precedence over horizontal order or vice versa?
Durkon knows the plan. He'll contact us magically--and Vaarsuvius, too--as soon as he's able.
Wait, hold on: You're saying the boat ACTUALLY left us behind?!?
Keep your voice down!
or
Wait, hold on: You're saying the boat ACTUALLY left us behind?!?
Keep your voice down! Durkon knows the plan. He'll contact us magically--and Vaarsuvius, too--as soon as he's able.Last edited by Gift Jeraff; 2013-11-04 at 03:01 PM. Reason: You're* not your; that's what I get for copying a wiki instead of typing it out myself.
-
2013-11-04, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I think it's the second alternative. It ties in with what Haley and Belkar were talking about last time we saw them and makes a natural transition to Xykon's usage of Cloister.
-
2013-11-04, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Chicago
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Yes, definitely the second.
-
2013-11-04, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- UK
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I've always read it as the second, yeah.
>>softly open our mouths in the cold
-
2013-11-04, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Germany
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I would assume the first alternative:
With her statement Haley confirms that the boat left, triggering Belkar's reaction.
As for a general rule: I don't think that there is one, normally it is pretty clear from context. Even the Wikipedia article is imo not really helpful:Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Problems with [table]?
All you want to know about [table]!The Order of the Stick
Kickstarter Reward Collection
Last updated: 2016/08/09, containing:
9 Crayon Drawings | 21 Stick its | 47 Signature Doodles
Custom Avatar made by the Giant.
Thanks!
-
2013-11-04, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Chicago
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I think that, if it had been option A as you suggest, the smaller speech balloon would have been connected to the larger one by a direct line, not with a separate pointer to Haley's head. The reason that there isn't a direct line is probably because those generally imply that you should read down the line, which leads to the conclusion that Rich wanted us to read the other way.
-
2013-11-04, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Germany
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Without rearranging the bubbles a direct line wouldn't make it clearer imo.
Rich uses such direct lines pretty often in all directions.
Compare that to 480. In Panel two there is a connection between the two speech bubbles, with a similar angle as one between Haley's bubble would have. And from the content it is clear that the bottom left bubble comes before the top right bubble. So comparing that panel with the situation in 484, providing such a connection would imply the second reading order. The conclusion would be that it is not there, because the first reading order is intended .
I don't know if that is true, and personally wouldn't consider that as proof, but I think it pretty much discards your argument .
Problems with [table]?
All you want to know about [table]!The Order of the Stick
Kickstarter Reward Collection
Last updated: 2016/08/09, containing:
9 Crayon Drawings | 21 Stick its | 47 Signature Doodles
Custom Avatar made by the Giant.
Thanks!
-
2013-11-04, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I agree, and think that this is the correct order. Haley is worried, telling herself (and Belkar) that they will be contacted by Durkon soon. Belkar gets upset with the implication, shouting out an objection, and Haley tells him to be quiet. The other way around seems a bit odd to me; why would Belkar just spontaneously shout out something like "You're saying that..." at Haley when she hadn't said anything?
Also, as ChristianSt points out, the word bubbles are formed differently when the speech from one follows the other. There would be a connection between the two if "Keep your voice down!" was likely the first comment. Also, the "Durkon knows..." balloon is noticeably higher than the other, rather than directly across from it.
That said, both readings are similar enough that I think both can work and give the same results. It doesn't seem to matter too much which you read it as.SpoilerThank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
The full set is here.
Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread
A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
original image
-
2013-11-04, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
First way round. Note the speech bubbles are read that way in the Kubota Panel.
-
2013-11-04, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I think it works both ways anyways. I think Belkar is supposed to be talking over her in confusion and shock.
-
2013-11-04, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Albany, NY
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I've actually always read it as (A), as otherwise I would expect that everything Haley said would have been in one speech balloon.
I'm curious though, what brought this question up? Is there some greater potential significance to one order over the other?[CENTER]So You Wanna Be A DM? A Potentially Helpful Guide
Truly wonderful avatar made by Cuthalion
-
2013-11-04, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
- Gender
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
-
2013-11-04, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Sweden
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
The opinions seem to be pretty evenly split on this. Interesting. I myself have always read it as option 2.
I won a thread. Am I pathetic to list that in my signture? Yes. Of course I am.
Awesome avatar is awesome. And made by yldenfrei.
-
2013-11-04, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Germany
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Problems with [table]?
All you want to know about [table]!The Order of the Stick
Kickstarter Reward Collection
Last updated: 2016/08/09, containing:
9 Crayon Drawings | 21 Stick its | 47 Signature Doodles
Custom Avatar made by the Giant.
Thanks!
-
2013-11-04, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
IMO, it's the first alternative.
-
2013-11-04, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Location
- Wisconsin, USA
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
A short statement followed by a longer explanation seems to me to flow better than a long, detailed explanation followed by a short statement.
That may just be the freelancer speaking, though.Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
-
2013-11-04, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I'm surprised Rich hasn't spoken up yet.
Anyway, I think it's "obviously" #2. (I put that in quotes because apparently it ISN'T obvious since a lot of people disagree with me). The other reading just doesn't work.
"Durkon will contact us" isn't actually explaining "the ship just left". I think a better explanation is: (starting from the previous strip)
Nice illusion. Now can we just get out of this stupid city already?
...Vaarsuvius?
It's no illusion, idiot. They're gone.
Wait, hold on: You're saying the boat ACTUALLY left us behind?!?
Keep your voice down! Durkon knows the plan. He'll contact us magically--and Vaarsuvius, too--as soon as he's able.
especially when you see it as Haley trying to keep Belkar calm (and thus, his voice down) by reassuring him that Durkon will contact them in the morning.Last edited by littlebum2002; 2013-11-04 at 06:07 PM.
Avatar by Gurgleflep
-
2013-11-04, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
It was always obvious (to me) that it was the first option. Notice how Belkar's speech bubble is nestled between Haley's, indicating that "Keep your voice down!" is a response to Belkar's loud exclamation. The whole vertical nature of the strip lends itself to reading the speech bubbles as a stack when they're not exactly side-by-side.
Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2013-11-04 at 06:17 PM.
-
2013-11-05, 01:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Chicago
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
-
2013-11-08, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I always read it as the second one, but in a recent reread of the strip I read it the other way and it blew my mind.
-
2013-11-08, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I read it as:
Haley: "Durkon knows the plan. He'll contact us magically--and Vaarsuvius, too--as soon as he's able."
Belkar: "Wait, hold on: You're saying the boat ACTUALLY left us behind?!?"
Haley: "Keep your voice down!"
-
2013-11-08, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
The dialogue 'works' either way - that much is obvious. By intention or not, the ambiguous order doesn't affect the content.
At first glance, I read it as A. As many others have pointed out, no join between Haley's bubbles suggests that Belkar speaks in between them.
Over-scrutinising it into pointlessness, it's not been very neatly laid out (due to the necessity of showing the hobgoblins by the looks of it) making it the one slight mark on an otherwise impressive page layout.(Avatar by Ava)
-
2013-11-09, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Germany
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
I really would not see this as any problem in the page layout, without this thread I wouldn't have even noticed it.
And maybe it was even intended to be ambiguous?
I wouldn't be really that hard surprised if that was the case. We have ambiguously gendered wizards - why can't the comic have ambiguously ordered dialogue, too ?
Problems with [table]?
All you want to know about [table]!The Order of the Stick
Kickstarter Reward Collection
Last updated: 2016/08/09, containing:
9 Crayon Drawings | 21 Stick its | 47 Signature Doodles
Custom Avatar made by the Giant.
Thanks!
-
2013-11-09, 08:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Definitely the first , there is plenty of room on the lower panel for one big balloon with the full text, so those are being said separately.
not to mention comic rules dictate that way, i believe.
whats happening in the narrative is that in the previous page (and this is probably your disconnect) Belkar and Haley are surprised and freaked by the Fleet leaving. this is the next page and Haley is reassuring Belkar (and herself) that the others will come back for them. Since she is talking about a circumstance in which would require the group having actually abandoned them...Belkar has caught on to the fact that he isnt just missing something. That they really left.
Then Haley responds to Belkar freaking out by reminding him now to not die (shutting up)
The dialogue 'works' either way - that much is obvious. By intention or not, the ambiguous order doesn't affect the content.
At first glance, I read it as A. As many others have pointed out, no join between Haley's bubbles suggests that Belkar speaks in between them.
Over-scrutinising it into pointlessness, it's not been very neatly laid out (due to the necessity of showing the hobgoblins by the looks of it) making it the one slight mark on an otherwise impressive page layout.
__________________
obviously this is probably the first time the pair of them have addressed the situation, and since Belkar is surprised by her first comment we can assume that before this panel that it has only been in Haley's head that the consideration of whether or not the Order will come back for them (this is a direct link to the last page in which her self doubt eats at her one last time).
So she isnt really speaking to Belkar. She is talking out loud (probably mentally excusing herself from trying to reassure herself by thinking she is explaining "the plan" to Belkar) in order to reassure herself that "the plan" seems sound and they really weren't abandoned. So the importance is in showing How Leader Haley is trying to keep things together so that she doesn't break down into her self doubt. To her surprise the news (or confirmation of news rather) of what just happened shocks Belkar (thus showing how little she payed attention to him) thus causing his loud exclamation...bringing her back to reality and reminding her that there are more pressing matters than worring about if she will ever see her love again.Last edited by Cerlis; 2013-11-09 at 08:09 AM.
Part of the "Raise Nale and Let Him Serve Life in Prison" fan-club
"The only reason why people didn't like Durkon before was because he is the only member of the group that doesn't commit evil, like hurting others, or breaking the rules for giggles. I.E.' He's not cool'"
-
2013-11-09, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Turkey
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Second one makes more sense.
Spoiler
-
2013-11-09, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Second interpretation.
-
2013-11-09, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- The land of corn
- Gender
Re: Question about strip #484's speech balloons
Either works. I imagine Rich did it that way on purpose. It's up to the reader to figure out how they will read it, and which way you read it seems to me at first glance to be a factor of how you read the characters. It's a good bit of ambiguity, I think.