Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Timberwolf]

That's the reserves game for you and it's the major reason why my Assault marines tend to sit fights that matter out. I play them in a casual games, but I just don't like relying on the dice to the extent that DoA does (first roll then scatter then mishap table... way too many for me) Perhaps you could consider some scout bikers to alleviate the pain a little, start on the board, turbo boost and then drop. It'll cut out the mishap and scatter problem anyway, assuming they don't get shot to bits. Of course, it also cuts down your amount of slots for Vanguard.

[Renegade Paladin]

You were wrong, though. This isn't the first time the FAQ has overturned RAW, and probably won't be the last.

No I wasn't. A platoon is a troops choice.

[Hawkfrost000]

No I wasn't. A platoon is a troops choice.

QFT

RAI said that you could do it whereas RAW was rather ambiguous now RAW is clarified and says that you absolutely can do it.

DM

[Tren]

No I wasn't. A platoon is a troops choice.

Except DoW doesn't let you deploy two troops choices, it lets you deploy two units from your troops choices. That's why a single troop and their dedicated transport (two separate units) fill up your 2 unit allotment. The FAQ changes RAW.

[Renegade Paladin]

Except DoW doesn't let you deploy two troops choices, it lets you deploy two units from your troops choices. That's why a single troop and their dedicated transport (two separate units) fill up your 2 unit allotment. The FAQ changes RAW.

Each Infantry Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the force organization chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves.

You were saying?

[Cheesegear]

No I wasn't. A platoon is a troops choice.

That's not the issue. The issue was the words for Dawn of War itself.

"[...] deploy up to two units from [your] Troops selections [...]"

Emphasis mine.
There's a difference between 'Troops choice' in the Codex, and 'Troops unit' in the BBB. An Infantry Platoon is more than one unit, unless you use Combine Squads. Hence why Infantry Guard were terrible at Dawn of War because it's main strength is Heavy shooting which it always lost at least a turn of.

Now the problem is gone and Imperial Guard players couldn't have asked for much more. The Al'Rahem problem still exists though.

[Renegade Paladin]

A platoon counts as a single Troops choice when deploying. Dawn of War is the only scenario that restricts deployment. There is no reason to have that clause of the platoon rules if it doesn't apply to anything; ergo a platoon may be deployed as a single Troops selection in Dawn of War.

[Cheesegear]

There is no reason to have that clause of the platoon rules if it doesn't apply to anything; ergo a platoon may be deployed as a single Troops selection in Dawn of War.

Well, it can now.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, it can now.

It could before; people just feared the lascannons enough to argue about it. A platoon has always counted as a single troops choice for purposes of deployment.

[Cheesegear]

It could before; people just feared the lascannons enough to argue about it. A platoon has always counted as a single troops choice for purposes of deployment.

Common Sense is not RAW.

The Codex says "counts as a single Troops choice."
DoW says "up to two units from your Troops selections"

The words don't match. 'Unit' != 'Choice'. Of course, the only Codex this affected was Guard.

[Renegade Paladin]

Common Sense is not RAW.

The Codex says "counts as a single Troops choice."
DoW says "up to two units from your Troops selections"

The words don't match. 'Unit' != 'Choice'. Of course, the only Codex this affected was Guard.

Can you name a single instance where choices affect deployment other than Dawn of War? If not (and you can't), why does the rule exist?

[Cheesegear]

Can you name a single instance where choices affect deployment other than Dawn of War? If not (and you can't), why does the rule exist?

Battle Missions.

Ultimately, again, I need to point this out; Common Sense is not RAW. Regardless of what you think, rules is rules, even if they don't make sense.

If you still can't grasp it; it was Errata'd for a reason. The problem existed, whether you saw it or not. But now none of this matters because the problem isn't there anymore.

[Erloas]

Ultimately, again, I need to point this out; Common Sense is not RAW. Regardless of what you think, rules is rules, even if they don't make sense.

If you still can't grasp it; it was Errata'd for a reason. The problem existed, whether you saw it or not. But now none of this matters because the problem isn't there anymore.

Not to get too semantic about it (which is all this debate has been anyway...) if it was a FAQ then that is always how it has been, it was just making sure everyone knew.
If it was an errata, then it was changed and re-written.

Common sense, however, is actually RAW, as its I think the very first line in the BBB. And in almost every case of FAQ from GW that I've read and can specifically remember right now, the FAQ ruling has always been the common sense version of the rule reading. Of course "common sense" and "common gaming logic sense" are not quite the same, there are a lot of gaming logic situations that wouldn't make sense in a real life situation.

[Cheesegear]

Not to get too semantic about it (which is all this debate has been anyway...) if it was a FAQ then that is always how it has been, it was just making sure everyone knew.
If it was an errata, then it was changed and re-written.

It is Errata. It was not the way it is now.

And in almost every case of FAQ from GW that I've read and can specifically remember right now, the FAQ ruling has always been the common sense version of the rule reading.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Tyranid FAQ. And I think there's a few things in the Chaos Daemons one too that don't make sense.

[Timberwolf]

Deffrollas with their S10 hit no matter how far the battlewagon moved is my personal bugbear on that. I can see why, but I'm afraid simple common sense says the faster the vehicle moves, the harder it hits.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The words don't match. 'Unit' != 'Choice'. Of course, the only Codex this affected was Guard.

Plus every codex with dedicated transports. Or Dark Angels with their Ravenwing when those are troops.

Deffrollas with their S10 hit no matter how far the battlewagon moved is my personal bugbear on that. I can see why, but I'm afraid simple common sense says the faster the vehicle moves, the harder it hits.

With a non-powered ram, yes*. Not with a revolving crusher wheel.

Steamrollers don't work better when they go faster. Rather they're useless unless they travel at the designed optimum rolling speed.

Logically if the battlewagon went too fast it would shunt anything it hit away from the roller and not be able to crush anything.

*which is a differant ork vehicle upgrade that works of the normal ramming rules which are determined by how far something moves

[Timberwolf]

Deffrollas with their S10 hit no matter how far the battlewagon moved is my personal bugbear on that. I can see why, but I'm afraid simple common sense says the faster the vehicle moves, the harder it hits.

[Ninja Chocobo]

If not (and you can't), why does the rule exist?

It's a Grot's Life lets a unit of Gretchin remove a minefield in exchange for a handful of casualties. There aren't any minefields. Why does the rule exist?

Space Wolf Sagas have Oaths listed as part of the rules text. They have no bearing on the game. Why does the rule exist?

The text for Dawn of War doesn't specify 'troops choices', it specifies 'up to two units from your troops selections', except without the italics.
Combined Squads were fine though.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I can see why, but I'm afraid simple common sense says the faster the vehicle moves, the harder it hits.

Which is how ramming works. A deathroller is not ramming.

Science says the faster a vehicle moves the harder it hits. Common sense says that a 2 lb 3 cm diamater sphere should fall slower than a 4 lb 3 cm diameter sphere. Science says that two objects with the same shape and exterior volume falling in the same conditions fall at the same speed.

Its a well known fact that common sense is not common. It is a slightly less well known fact that it isn't sense either.

Throwing fruit into a smoothy maker may be fun, but it doesn't help the smoothy maker work better. On second thoughts you'd need a lid on the smoothy maker or it would be messy.
don't bother replying if you don't want to, i get your point

It's a Grot's Life lets a unit of Gretchin remove a minefield in exchange for a handful of casualties. There aren't any minefields. Why does the rule exist?

1. There used to be minefields.

2. A scenario could easily reintroduce minefields.

[Renegade Paladin]

It's a Grot's Life lets a unit of Gretchin remove a minefield in exchange for a handful of casualties. There aren't any minefields. Why does the rule exist?

Because Codex: Orks is from a previous edition, I suspect, though rules for minefields are in the main rulebook. (Difficult and dangerous, units that take a wound must test for pinning.) The current IG codex was written under the 5th edition rules, therefore one may suppose its rules apply to 5th edition.

Space Wolf Sagas have Oaths listed as part of the rules text. They have no bearing on the game. Why does the rule exist?

The same reason there's any other flavor text in the book.

The text for Dawn of War doesn't specify 'troops choices', it specifies 'up to two units from your troops selections', except without the italics.
Combined Squads were fine though.

FAQ says I was right. I suggest dealing.

[Ninja Chocobo]

FAQ says I was right. I suggest dealing.

Correction, the FAQ says you are right. You were wrong.

[Renegade Paladin]

Correction, the FAQ says you are right. You were wrong.

That would be errata, not FAQ.

[Arcanoi]

That would be errata, not FAQ.

It was errata.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Now it is a duck?

[Renegade Paladin]

It was errata.

My mistake. The errata entry also rewords rolling collectively for reserves; are you suggesting that wasn't clear enough? The errata replaces the entire sentence, and the only thing of substance it changed was rolling separately for parts of the platoon in non-dedicated transports. I have already said why I was right; this is simply icing on the cake. The most cursory application of logic says that's the only thing the rule as originally printed could possibly mean; there is nothing else in the rules for it to refer to apart from the Dawn of War deployment type.

[Ninja Chocobo]

The most cursory application of logic says that's the only thing the rule as originally printed could possibly mean; there is nothing else in the rules for it to refer to apart from the Dawn of War deployment type.

You're bringing logic into a technical argument where it has no place. Why does Ghasghkull Thraka have Furious Charge and frag grenades when his power klaw makes him S10 I1?

The rules never stated you could exceed the amount of units allowed by the Dawn of War rules. In fact, you could more accurately read that sentence as meaning that the Platoon only counted as a single Troops choice while deploying - at all other times it would count as different.

Note I said more accurate, not more logical.

[Hawkfrost000]

hey guys, im heading of to a campaign this sunday (3 days of fighting, 1 day kill teams and 2 days of 1250 point battles) and i was wondering if you could look over my Dark Eldar army list for me.

Kill Teams list 1

Spoiler

Show

5 Wyches
Hekatrix w Agoniser
Raider w Flickerfields
150

3 Trueborn
Blaster
51

Hekatrix: Preferred Enemy (Everything!)
Wych: Feel no Pain (i can think of nothing better, and it helps her stay alive)
Blaster Trueborn: Infiltrate

With this list the two splinter rifle trueborn and the wyches deploy normally with the blaster trueborn infiltrating. Blaster thins the heard with some sniping and the wyches run in and kill things with the splinter rifles providing covering fire.

1250pt List

Spoiler

Show

Succubus
Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Haywire Grenades
105

8 Wyches
Haywire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler
Hekatrix w Agoniser
Raider w flickerfields
206

8 Wyches
Haywire Grenades, Hydra Guantlets
Hekatrix w Agoniser
Raider w flickerfields
206

10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Raider w Flickerfields, Shadow Field and Splinter Racks
205

10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Raider w Flickerfields, Shadow Field and Splinter Racks
205

Razorwing Jetfighter
Flickerfields, Shadow Field
165

Razorwing Jetfighter
Flickerfields, Shadow Field
165

1257

I just need to trim 10 points off of this one but i have my playstyle are figured out. But, i need suggestions for what should go.

thanks in advance

DM

[iyaerP]

Renegade paladin: VINDICATION!

Everyone else: Only in hindsight.

Renegade paladin: but I was right!

Everyone else: No you weren't.

Renegade paladin: But yes I was.

Everyone else: But no you weren't!

Renegade paladin: Was!

Everyone else: Wasn't!

etc.

My god, its like watching a monty python looney toons sketch.

[Ninjaman]

hey guys, im heading of to a campaign this sunday (3 days of fighting, 1 day kill teams and 2 days of 1250 point battles) and i was wondering if you could look over my Dark Eldar army list for me.

Kill Teams list 1

Spoiler

Show

5 Wyches
Hekatrix w Agoniser
Raider w Flickerfields
150

3 Trueborn
Blaster
51

Hekatrix: Preferred Enemy (Everything!)
Wych: Feel no Pain (i can think of nothing better, and it helps her stay alive)
Blaster Trueborn: Infiltrate

With this list the two splinter rifle trueborn and the wyches deploy normally with the blaster trueborn infiltrating. Blaster thins the heard with some sniping and the wyches run in and kill things with the splinter rifles providing covering fire.

1250pt List

Spoiler

Show

Succubus
Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Haywire Grenades
105

8 Wyches
Haywire Grenades, Shardnet and Impaler
Hekatrix w Agoniser
Raider w flickerfields
206

8 Wyches
Haywire Grenades, Hydra Guantlets
Hekatrix w Agoniser
Raider w flickerfields
206

10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Raider w Flickerfields, Shadow Field and Splinter Racks
205

10 Kabalite Warriors
Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Raider w Flickerfields, Shadow Field and Splinter Racks
205

Razorwing Jetfighter
Flickerfields, Shadow Field
165

Razorwing Jetfighter
Flickerfields, Shadow Field
165

1257

I just need to trim 10 points off of this one but i have my playstyle are figured out. But, i need suggestions for what should go.

thanks in advance

DM

Why is your kill teams list 201 pts?
Also i think your Hekatrix is killy enough, mayby give her the feel no pain?

iyaerP@ You are so right.

[Hawkfrost000]

Why is your kill teams list 201 pts?

It was either 201 points or 191 points, i cleared it with the guy running the campaign.

I find my average wyches quite killy but that my Hekatrix often whiffs. Its probably just my dice, but ill give FnP on her a try.

DM