Worst Prerequisites

[deuxhero]

So Adept or Ranger with ACF?

[ScionoftheVoid]

No it doesn't. The listed caster level is a separate listing from the prerequisites, it is not a prerequisite but rather the assumed level of the item if found at random for item saves and the like.

amusingly, those caster levels? aren't prerequisites. they're just considered "standard" for that kind of item. outside of e6 or something (which turns them into prereqs iirc), they don't matter, and you can make the item as soon as you have the actual prerequisites. some items do have an actual CL requirement, but most don't.

Fair enough, never mind. The 50gp Solvent still requires Disintegrate, which means you'll probably be at least 13th level before you can craft it. And still gives off a Strong aura of Transmutation. Which is really funky for throwing off Detect Magic results. Shove it in a treasure hoard and watch the players go crazy until they can get an Identify... I need to do that sometime.


On topic, Geomancer has some really awful prereqs. Second level casting in both arcane and divine, but it only advances one of the two. The class abilities are cool, but not so cool that I'd actually take the class without early entry shenanigans. Unfortunately, that's easier to do on the arcane side, which benefits more from the class than the divine side does. So you still lose several levels of casting, at which point you may just skip early entry. Or, easier, just skip the PrC completely.

Edit:

2.So the prerequisite is 'must be a 5th level sorcerer', sigh.

Dragon Disciple? Technically I think you can qualify as a Bard, even in Core. Go outside of Core and it opens up a fair bit. The prereq that's screwy there is "Race: Any nondragon". Combined with it's capstone, it means that either you need only meet prereqs when you enter the class (and can lose them afterwards at no penalty, making Rings of Evasion really helpful for things like Fochlucan Lyrist) or it keeps disqualifying itself, losing the half-dragon template, re-qualifying and disqualifying itself all over again.

[FMArthur]

Fair enough, never mind. The 50gp Solvent still requires Disintegrate, which means you'll probably be at least 13th level before you can craft it. And still gives off a Strong aura of Transmutation. Which is really funky for throwing off Detect Magic results. Shove it in a treasure hoard and watch the players go crazy until they can get an Identify... I need to do that sometime.


On topic, Geomancer has some really awful prereqs. Second level casting in both arcane and divine, but it only advances one of the two. The class abilities are cool, but not so cool that I'd actually take the class without early entry shenanigans. Unfortunately, that's easier to do on the arcane side, which benefits more from the class than the divine side does. So you still lose several levels of casting, at which point you may just skip early entry. Or, easier, just skip the PrC completely.

But Geomancer's pretty decent if you do get early entry on the divine side to go arcane-heavy - that way it's just one level lost and gives you nice features on a nice chassis. I can't think of any reason to do divine-heavy Geomancer though.

[dextercorvia]

Hierophant.

Requires a metamagic feat and the ability to cast 7th level spells. And then it steals your ice and leaves you in a bathtub full of kidneys.

[ScionoftheVoid]

But Geomancer's pretty decent if you do get early entry on the divine side to go arcane-heavy - that way it's just one level lost and gives you nice features on a nice chassis. I can't think of any reason to do divine-heavy Geomancer though.

Oh yeah, certainly, but I don't know Divine early-entry nearly as well as Arcane. I couldn't give you an approximate description of a Divine early-entry trick from memory, for example. If you have any appropriate links, that'd be great (thank you in advance, just in case).

[dextercorvia]

Oh yeah, certainly, but I don't know Divine early-entry nearly as well as Arcane. I couldn't give you an approximate description of a Divine early-entry trick from memory, for example. If you have any appropriate links, that'd be great (thank you in advance, just in case).

Southern Magician, Mitigated Heighten, Improved Sigil (Krau), Sanctum Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, etc.

[Kaje]

I like a SotAO Mystic Ranger entry for Geomancers.

[arguskos]

Fochlucan Lyrist's requirements may be annoying, but Magelord's are downright enraging. It's absurd. I don't think it's actually possible for a normal character in a class that gets 9ths to actually get all 10 levels into one build unless you're using Beholder Mage or something, which only gets 3d6 Sneak Attack in benefits from the class. Maybe PAO cheese is required for entry so that you can be a monster with Evasion as a racial feature? It's really wierd.

Actually, there *is* a way to do it, but your DM has to be nice (it's a fuzzy equivalency thing). Divine Oracle's Prescient Sense is basically Evasion, and lets you get in at level 10 instead of 11. Yeah, not a lot better. Ugh, I love Magelord SO DAMN MUCH but the designers really didn't.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Southern Magician, Mitigated Heighten, Improved Sigil (Krau), Sanctum Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, etc.

Thanks, I remember three of those, and know that I lack the book Southern Magician is in (don't know what book it is, just know that I don't have it and won't for a rather considerable length of time). Mitigating Heighten spell is probably something I should just look up and revise for general purposes.

[sonofzeal]

What's really obnoxious is the Invisible Blade prestige class, from Complete Warrior. It's a dagger-focused prestige class, so you would expect the requirements to be focused around using daggers.

Wrong.

It asks you for Far Shot and Point Blank Shot, two feats that are nearly useless to non-archers and whose benefits are unused by the actual class.. Why? I don't know.

Actually, "Far Shot" is pretty useless for archers given that few encounters start beyond a couple hundred feet... but it's tremendously useful for throwers, who can reasonably expect to be biting range penalties regularly.

Daggers can be thrown. Dagger Sneak Attack applies at ranges of up to 30 feet. And throwing 30 feet gives a significant penalty without Far Shot.

So.... not at all useless for them. Still out of place I'll admit, but Far Shot is a reasonable choice for a dagger-focused character

[Infernalbargain]

I think combat expertise and anything that has it as a Pre-req is really bad. It is yet another finger to melee.

[erikun]

Primeval from Frostburn. I don't care what anyone says, I loved that class' abilities and concept. Holy crap do it's prereqs suck though. Endurance, Self Sufficent, and *drum-roll* toughness. Friggin' toughness. I think something workable can be made from a wildshape ranger/totemist, but man does it suck for just about anyone else.

Wow, it's like they looked at Dwarven Defender and thought their prerequisites weren't bad enough.

Speaking of which: Mobility. How many prestige classes require mobility, or could be good with the feat, except for the completely worthless feat tax associated with it?

[dextercorvia]

Actually, there *is* a way to do it, but your DM has to be nice (it's a fuzzy equivalency thing). Divine Oracle's Prescient Sense is basically Evasion, and lets you get in at level 10 instead of 11. Yeah, not a lot better. Ugh, I love Magelord SO DAMN MUCH but the designers really didn't.

Wizard9/InitiateoftheDraconicMysteries1/Magelord10 is unquestionable. Use the UA variant to grab IUS in place of Scribe Scroll, and Power Attack at level 5. That is a lot of feat prereq's, but a human can do it without flaws.

[FMArthur]

Actually I forgot about Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) + Open Lesser Chakra (Feet) giving you actual Evasion. What a massive feat sinkhole for Magelord, though... and it still doesn't really answer the question of who they expected to use the class at the time of writing.

[sreservoir]

Actually I forgot about Shape Soulmeld (Impulse Boots) + Open Lesser Chakra (Feet) giving you actual Evasion. What a massive feat sinkhole for Magelord, though... and it still doesn't really answer the question of who they expected to use the class at the time of writing.

doesn't work.

[Kaje]

Yup, you explicitly need evasion as a class or racial feature.

[FMArthur]

Oh dang, that level requirement...

The feat is giving you a class feature though. It's not your class feature, but it lets you grab an ability from another class's features, and that feature provides evasion.

[Psyren]

doesn't work.

Yup, you explicitly need evasion as a class or racial feature.

It does work, because it is a class feature - and even points you to the class it's coming from. FL never says it has to be a feature of YOUR class.

Chakra Bind (Feet)
You gain the evasion ability (see page 50 of the Player's Handbook.)

[arguskos]

Wizard9/InitiateoftheDraconicMysteries1/Magelord10 is unquestionable. Use the UA variant to grab IUS in place of Scribe Scroll, and Power Attack at level 5. That is a lot of feat prereq's, but a human can do it without flaws.

Huh. A legit method. I like. I tend to ask DMs to be reasonable, myself, but it's good to see that there is a legit RAW method to do it. Thanks!

[gomipile]

The entry requirements for Spelldancer are pretty rough. Considering its main use is in metamagic, requiring four non-metamagic feats is fairly punishing for any leveling build.

[herrhauptmann]

The entry requirements for Spelldancer are pretty rough. Considering its main use is in metamagic, requiring four non-metamagic feats is fairly punishing for any leveling build.

Is metamagic mitigation the intended use for spelldancer? I know that's all anyone uses it for...

[Venger]

surprised at no mention of Vassal of Bahamut with it's kill an adolescent red dragon by your self. Remember this class is aimed at paladin's and fighters.

Also, Didn't Scion of Tem-et-nu have something weird to do with Hippos?

you are very close.

the feat "blessed of tem-et-nu" requires that you worship tem et nu as your patron (with you so far) and I think have a compatible alignment and that you defeat a hippopotamus in single combat. after this, you are allowed to rebuke hippopotami as an evil cleric rebukes undead and hippopotami will never attack you unless compelled magically. also cleric's always a favoured class for you if your DM is horrible and actually uses that rule.

if you ever dump tem et nu as your patron deity or switch to the wrong alignment, then you take damage as though bitten by a hippopotamus

one of the oddest prereqs and feats in general overall

[Steward]

How many campaigns really feature hippos enough to make that a worthwhile investment? Some prestige classes fit in many settings. Others (the majority, I feel) require a reasonable amount of collaboration between DM and player in order to make them useful. And a few require the DM to bend over backwards and include contrived scenarios to get them to work.

[Jheska]

I would also argue the previously mentioned feat could qualify as one of the worst feats for that other thread, as it has the potential to actually kill you.

[Tyndmyr]

On the other hand, casters have crazy stuff like Blood Mage.

"Wow, that trick looks awesome. How'd you do that, Jim?"
"Oh, it's a odd bit of magic. Harder than it looks."
"Could you teach me it?"
"Well, are you fairly tough?"
"Yeah, I'd say so."
"Good at magic in general?"
"Yep."
"Okay, one last question. Have you ever died before?"
"..." *Fireballs*
"So... you don't want the training then."

While crazy, I think that's actually a fairly common prereq. Let's see...Risen Martyr has it, I do believe(and kills you again as the capstone for good measure). Always worthy of a mention.

Also, there's a FEAT that requires you to die to get it. Can't recall the name offhand, but it lets you talk to the recently dead for cha mod minutes. Interesting and kind of useful for some sorts, but that's a harsh prereq just to pick up a feat.

[Steward]

While crazy, I think that's actually a fairly common prereq. Let's see...Risen Martyr has it, I do believe(and kills you again as the capstone for good measure). Always worthy of a mention.

I think the most insulting aspect of that class is that you can never leave it. It's the prestige-class equivalent of being welded to the tracks in the path of an oncoming train. You know what's coming, you know it's going to be godawful, and there's nothing you can do about it but sit back and enjoy the ride.

It's like being on death row. But exalted.

[Thurbane]

Fleshwarper is really hard to qualify for, thanks to the deceptive prereqs for the Graft Flesh feat (or whatever it's called). The class itself requires some 4 or 5 ranks in Heal, which is no big deal cross-class for most casters, but the Graft Flesh feat itself requires 10 (!) ranks in Heal, and you also need a familiar.

So Adept or Ranger with ACF?

You could play a Glimmerskin Halfling, or be a Sorcerer and grab the Draconic Heritage (Gold) feat...but yeah, 10 ranks is way too much.

[ericgrau]

Hierophant.

Requires a metamagic feat and the ability to cast 7th level spells. And then it steals your ice and leaves you in a bathtub full of kidneys.

It doesn't give you caster levels because you can now semi-break the game in lolzy ways.

Select between:
free reach spell
Now your whole party can turn undead
Now your party barbarian can wildshape as well as you... while also retaining all his other class features such as rage
spell power your holy words into wiping out foes with more HD than you
spell power + spell-like-ability + quicken spell like ability (feat) to quicken higher level spells earlier

You may choose multiple with enough PrC levels.

[Thurbane]

Primeval from Frostburn. I don't care what anyone says, I loved that class' abilities and concept. Holy crap do it's prereqs suck though. Endurance, Self Sufficent, and *drum-roll* toughness. Friggin' toughness. I think something workable can be made from a wildshape ranger/totemist, but man does it suck for just about anyone else.

Wow, now that's just bad - three of the least useful core feats in the game. Surprised they didn't thrown Run in there as well.

[Geigan]

Wow, now that's just bad - three of the least useful core feats in the game. Surprised they didn't thrown Run in there as well.

Endurance can be gotten as a bonus feat from some races and classes, and it qualifies you for steadfast endurance which is cool. Toughness can at least be replaced with azure toughness for an extra point of essentia for incarnum classes. Self Sufficient is hard to justify as useful at all though. Maybe if your DM sets really high survival checks wherever you are and you have to make lots of stabilization checks? Woe-betide if you want to take this class without Incarnum though as toughness is the epitome of uselessness. Though at least it's not the worst feat you could possibly take as the previous thread on terrible feats showed us. It comes close though. Reeeeaaalll close.