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Thread: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
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2012-10-02, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
I wonder if the fact that John got to move up to a higher god tier after he and Jade escaped the scratch upped his combat power and is being reflected in this dream bubble. It seems weird to me that he'd be able to do the windy thing like that when it wasn't possible for the real god tier John the first time around, unless moving up a god tier gave him more fine control over the windy powers.
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2012-10-02, 04:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
This is probably the case. I mean we have seen bodies being modified in the dream-bubbles with Tavros and maybe a couple of other examples but this degree of control has been impossible for anyone. Even just fixing themselves back to baseline is an issue for some.
John however is starting to take on more and more godly aspects from the god tiers it seems. I mean just at the heroic tiers he was able to move the wind on a global scale, so an escalation of that would simply be to become the wind itself.
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2012-10-02, 05:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Well, both post and pre scratch Jacks got hit with a blunt object in the head.
I wonder how post scratch jack is doing now?
was he really beaten by hte brutes or did he stab them all?Despite everything, its still me.
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2012-10-02, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
John is being awesome! Hooray!
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2012-10-02, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
The r
uose was a distaction!
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2012-10-02, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-03, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-03, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
And Jack suffers the worst possible torture for his crimes.
If you like my thoughts, you'll love my writing. Visit me at www.mishahandman.com.
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2012-10-03, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
One more hit and jacks DEAD!
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2012-10-06, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Jack wisely realizes he can't fight this unstabbable windy boy with the hammer and the angry post lady with the exact same powers as him and absconds. Still wearing the hat.
One more hit and he's dead strikes me as premature. That hammer blow did more damage than main timeline Jack has ever taken, but he still has about 9/10ths of his health bar left.
Unless that hat reduces his gel viscosity massively or something.I Wanna Be the Guy Kid avatar by Ceika. Many thanks.
If I win, I get to be a king. If I lose, then I get to be a legend.
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2012-10-06, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-06, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
No, no, his chances of getting anywhere with PM would be dead. It's bad enough trying to impress a lady when you're saddled with a silly hat; imagine if the next blow inflicted him with Clownishly Large Footwear or the dreaded False Mustache? She'd think of him as no more than a laughingstock!
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2012-10-06, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Someone actually went and counted the pixels in Jack's health bar; It'd take 8 more hits to kill him, assuming consistent damage. That being said, it's difficult to gauge the effects of the hammer's special abilities.
That being said, Jack clearly believes it is time to flee before he is further embarrassed in front of his crush.
You know what would be ironic? If PM thought Jack looked good in that hat.
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2012-10-06, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Oh please no. She had her planet destroyed by him and forced to wander a desert starving (Apparently they can starve, but they can't die) for 400 years.
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2012-10-06, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-06, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Nothing. Its what I call:
You loose. You fail as a sentient and you die now. The blood of infinite trillion lay apon your hands (The Universe had infinite different possibilities in it).
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2012-10-06, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- In the mind.
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2012-10-06, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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2012-10-06, 07:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- In the mind.
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2012-10-06, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-06, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
I think the core of the point is pretty good, though - Jack is not a being who is capable of redemption, because redemption would require repentance, and he's not even capable of climbing out of his pit of murder long enough to stop stabbing people that he likes.
This has been true of every incarnation of Jack, from Alternia through both Earths to the cherub session. He is, quite frankly, barely even a sentient being, he's so monofocused on murdering everything and everyone, and he's quite clearly still not clear on what the problem is, given his frustration with PM chasing him over "one or two trivial murders". He's the least sympathetic character in all of Homestuck, although he is also one of the more amusing.Last edited by Friv; 2012-10-06 at 11:51 PM.
If you like my thoughts, you'll love my writing. Visit me at www.mishahandman.com.
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2012-10-07, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Sometimes... Sometimes people just like stabbing people :| ...
Wether or not they are still good characters despite this is entirely unrelated. read: Chesla grinn from Chimnyspeak (NSFW)Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2012-10-07, 03:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-07, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
No, from her perspective she just got here ("here" being the afterlife), remember? Her personal timeline is
Live as recluse on moon rather than be saddled with tremendous responsibility --> Ultimately unsuccessful game session culminating in group murder/suicide to ensure own and friends' continued existence --> Hunt some alien's dream self for a while 'cuz hey why not --> Reunite with long-winded friend and learn that she was a genocidal dictator in an alternate timeline.
Hmmmmmmmm........
ARANEA: I was a cool pir8te. The 8est pir8! I lived a long time, had amazing adventures, got all the treasure, then died. That's all she wrote!
ARANEA: 8ut not literally. She wrote quite a lot in fact. She had a lot to say, just like me. Which is why she's so gr8.
Well, Aranea does seem to like her vicious ancestor too. Of course, Mindfang's really not nearly so bad as the Condesce, and her accomplishments can be viewed in the context of a proportionately vicious world which Aranea has had quite some time to get used to. Still........
Also, looking back at that conversation, I see that Meenah learned about the Condesce's servitude to Lord English from the start. So, if she was paying attention, she wasn't idealizing her alternate self as someone who never had to answer to anyone. Not that this changes much, just making a note of that.
Ah, so you're saying that you're concerned with core aspects of her character like fashion and mannerisms, while everyone else is getting caught up in superficial stuff like how readily she might murder people.
Sorry for realizing that in the Troll universe being violent or killing a few people does not equal being a horrible monster demon who has no good qualities whatsoever and only has an interest in murdering people and drinking their blood while violating their loved ones like everyone seems to be making her out to be?
Ah, Two-Tone Perception Disease! Well, that certainly explains what you've been saying.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that most of us just meant that she's the sort of person who might stab you to death if given half a reason to and maybe even if not given a reason to. To most people, that qualifies as "pretty bad". We assumed that you already knew that!
I think you've got to admit that it's at least very inconsiderate.
Ya gotta admit, if he is, he's been fairly successful! Though I've got to ding him for lack of subtlety.
Should've followed the discussion more carefully, Calemyr. Never assume that something is too self-evident for someone argue against. As you noted, people will argue that Belkar is, somehow, not evil, so this really shouldn't come as much of surprise at this point.
By Alternian standards, the trolls who committed actual "murder" were Eridan (against Feferi), Kanaya (Eridan), and Terezi (Vriska). Everything else was against lower bloods, and thus culturally acceptable.
I actually kind of doubt that lowbloods were expected to obey highbloods out of anything but fear. Remember, a certain degree of class struggle was helpful to the Empress, because trolls couldn't rebel against her rule if they were too busy fighting each other. Relatively few of the trolls we've seen seem to actually buy into the idea of innate highblood superiority. Vriska, for example, is very aware of her status, but doesn't seem to believe that it's anything more than a social construct. This is probably typical of adult trolls (and another regard in which Vriska is precocious).
(By "innate highblood superiority" I mean the idea that the higher-blooded of two trolls is better than the other, irrespective of everything else about them. This is pretty plainly an unnatural dogma propagated by highbloods, and the sort of thing that illustrates that some people -- even some surprisingly intelligent people -- can be made to believe damn near anything under the right circumstances. Equius's deference to Gamzee is obviously the most blatant example of this.)
Besides, Kanaya acted in retribution for an attack against her, not to mention the destruction of her species' normal means of reproduction. I kind of doubt that that isn't allowed. Turnabout is fair play, after all.
Also, dooming trollkind may well have gone against Alternian ethics. By that standard Eridan and Vriska did some questionable at best stuff as well.
How does that follow?
in terms of actually benefitting their own team Meenah probably comes out way behind Eridan, simply because he used his ultimate weapon to help Vriska and Feferi for years until the session started and basically kept them all alive, even if his motives were far from pure.
Thirdly, in the context of the Hemospectrum, assuming troll biology works the same on both worlds, they are inferior.
But of course we don't know all that much about the nature of the disparity in treatment. And it seems pretty safe to assume that people with psychic superbrains were probably treated rather differently than people without them.
Probably. He definitely would have done exactly what B1 Jack Noir did if placed into exactly the same circumstances, because B1 Jack Noir is Spades Slick in B1 Jack Noir's circumstances. Like, that's the only difference between them. So it's not even "would have done", it's just "did".
Would Slayer or Condesce!Jack team up with humans based on their blood color?
Blood color was Karkat's basis for the team-up, not Slick's. Slick just went along with it because he's an opportunistic wild card like that.
I think it's safe to assume that highblood elders didn't just treat lowbloods the way that human adults treat human children, but the way that human adults treat terminally ill children, for pretty much all of the same reasons.
If it's true that highbloods are naturally more likely to be aggressive and violent, then they probably tend to have lower-blooded moirails. It's just that if someone only lives a fairly small fraction of your lifespan, there's a limit to how long-term your relationship can be, relatively speaking.
All things considered, this is not such a foreign concept. Humans have parents as Loved Ones Who Are Probably Going To Die Considerably Before I Do. That's our tragic arrangement that we sort of just have to deal with.
Given the scare quotes and the "usually", I'm having a hard time seeing how this is supposed to qualify as new information. I had rather taken for granted that physical intimacy, pleasure, and pair-bonding were interrelated in pretty nearly the same ways for humans and for trolls in the context of matespritship. Had you not assumed that this is the case?
Really? All of the counts? All of them?
But don't tell me it's this perfect story when it can objectivley be proven the writing is terrible at certain things. That isn't a fair and unbaised judgement of Homestuck's merits and flaws. That's knee-jerk reacting and it has no place in mature discussion.
Of course Homestuck's not perfect in the sense of being all things to all people. What story could be?
Exactly. Because those are their self-crafted personae. Dave acts Too Cool Too Care and deliberately makes it nigh-impossible to tell what layer of irony removed from reality his flippant remarks are. Rose similarly employs sarcasm at every possible opportunity and makes a point of maintaining her composure. And for each of them, this is not just a public face, but their self-image; it's how they want to be and try to be and generally succeed in being.
But when faced with the death of a loved one, they falter, at least temporarily, as one would expect of someone short of robotic. If at that point you say "Well, okay, but the vast majority of time they don't really react to stuff", you're essentially complaining that two of the protagonists are stoic characters. Which, if you don't like that, fine.
But not being expressive isn't the same as not having emotions! If you assume that, you're evaluating things on a pretty superficial level.
Lack of canonical Sadstuck doesn't make John seem any less upset to me. You seem be saying that you refuse to acknowledge his feelings unless they're presented in such a way as to force you to empathize. Which is odd, because in so complaining about how things "come off", you do implicitly acknowledge that how things actually are is different.
I guess what I'm asking is, are you saying "It's not enough for John to be sad, I want the comic to make me feel sad too"? And if so, are you a masochist? Because that honestly seems like it would explain a lot. ;)
Its because we find out more about how a character thinks, how they react, and who they are. There is a certain point where you can predict what a character would do (And if you predicted wrong then maybe find out something new about them).
Personally, I find the story, the characters, and their interactions with each other to be interesting and look forward to seeing what happens next. I don't feel sad when bad things happen to them, though. I'd rather not, really. I... kinda dislike being sad.
If you need to feel sad when bad things happening to characters in order to feel interested in what they do, then... well, my condolences on that. :/
If I don't care then its just a spectacle comic.
It's not an accident that the inane screwing around makes no sense in context. Of course it's insane! That's the point! It's meant to be absurd! It was established pretty early on that this is how Homestuck works.
"You waste approximately 40 seconds playing the violin while your friend is in peril.
Nice time management skills there, sweetheart!"
THESE CHARACTERS ARE NOT NORMAL PEOPLE. THEY ARE WACKY. :D
:D. :D, Scowling Dragon. :D.
I thought we already covered this. The "human" kids are actually aliens who crashed down on Earth and are superficially indistinguishable from humans but have a bunch of alien superpowers.
Like Superman, remember?
Isn't your second paragraph here rather contradicted by the one immediately above it? :/ The older you get, the less impatient and easily bored you become because long stretches of time don't seem so long anymore.
You also seem to be assuming that you can only experience something so many times before it's impossible to forget it. That seems like a dubious assumption, as does the notion that billions of years is anywhere near sufficient time to exhaust all possible experiences.
If their so alien that 50% of their habits seem alien to us then we are wasting 50% of our time with them.
Its interesting to have a different psychology, but thats interesting ONCE. Its interesting as a concept, and as a study. But for those same reasons that means they cannot be used as characters because we can't get invested in them.
There doesn't seem to be a degree of difference from me that makes me disinterested in a character. At least, not so that I notice and say to myself "I don't care about them because their experiences and concerns are too unfamiliar to me." Indeed, I seem more prone to say "Wow, that's something I'd never thought about before! This is really new and interesting; I want to see where this goes". If there's something that makes that feeling fade over time, it's failure to explore unfamiliar ideas further.
Like... do you just not get that lots of readers like the trolls because they're weird aliens? I think that they do a good job of being weird aliens but also similar enough to humans for us to understand them pretty well, which seems to be what a lot of people like. And understandably so. Sci-fi/fantasy species that are basically just weird-looking humans with special powers are a lot less intriguing.
What's so bad about reading something you hate, if you want to do that for whatever reason?
Is it that people who like the thing then have to deal with your angry criticism of the thing that they like?
Oh nooooooo.
Well, you don't have to respond to everything.
... What? I said you don't.
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2012-10-07, 07:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-10-07, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
To a degree? Yes. Although my issue is not so much with the criticism - he's allowed to do that all her wants - as it is with the patronising tone he (and you, I might add) take when criticising it.
Disliking something? Cool. Being a douchebag about it? Not so much.i am going to make it through this year
if it kills me
i am going to make it though this year
if it kills me
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2012-10-07, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
I thought it was because everyone started discussing the newer
updatespotatoes. :0
I'm still not clear on why people lose interest in a discussion just because time has passed. Heck, not even just lose interest in, but actively dislike. Like, I get that it must be a common preference in order for rules against "thread necromancy" to exist, but I dunno why.
I should probably find a forum more suited to my personal style of discourse. But I probably won't do that any time soon because I'm lazy. Which is also why it takes me a long time to get around to replying to things. So this is totally situational irony or something.
You might want to look into a spell checker, incidentally. It took me a while to figure out that you meant "Unnecessary". (But it didn't take me a while to figure out how to spell it myself, because I have a spell checker to tell me the right spelling! Efficiency as well as clearer communication! Hooray!)
How could we improve our tone? I'm not clear on how it's patronizing.
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2012-10-07, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Well, for one thing- Scowling Dragon tends to rant about how stupid the characters are and how they're unrealistic, which always has the subtext of "I'm the only one who sees this!"
You can critique it all you like, but you need to make sure that you understand that our position of enjoying the comic is just as valid as yours in disliking it or whatever, so that the discussion can be understood on level terms, not so it's "I am superior to you because X and this is why".i am going to make it through this year
if it kills me
i am going to make it though this year
if it kills me
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2012-10-07, 12:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
Well technically we all think our opinions are superior then the other persons. Otherwise why would we argue?
Its just important not to be a jerk about it.
And sorry for bringing in the character argument again. The tonal shifts are beginning to bug me again. Il leave for a while until they settle down.
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2012-10-07, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MS Paint Adventures 6:12
One reason for arguing is to try and understand the other person's point of view more deeply, which will then give you additional information both on the person and the work, which allows you to further develop your own ideas both on humanity and what is being discussed.
This is not aided by going in assuming your views and approach are superior. This is something I am trying to train myself out of - or well, I never really believed that, but the way I argued/argue wasn't/isn't conducive to achieving my real goal.
Obviously before the argument I believe that whatever viewpoint is the best available to me - but part of the reason for arguing is to see if there's better.