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2012-08-23, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-08-23, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
While it's odd, it's intended. They should have those specific scores. It's not their mind anymore.
Evolutions-specific comments :
As written, this doesn't affect the HD of creatures gained after the ability is selected. You also forgot to mention what kind of HD (Magical beast? Aberration?), not mentioning it improves non-mindless servants, which is something the DM and/or other PC may not like.
It adds HD that you already have.
Overpowered ; this is one of the few evolutions that greatly improve the swarmlord, and it also increase her minions.
Same problem. If you removed Resist, the Ironscale evolution would (probably) be balanced.
I'm not sure why it evolve with level. An ability that increase by level must be intended for use in an indefinitely high level of play. After an indefinite amount of time, an epic swarmlord can exceed the speed of light. Also, there is no manoeuvrability after ''perfect''. You don't have to be high-epic to have a better manoeuvrability than perfect. Sky Swarm is one of the few evolution that improves with level (there should be none).
Then again, same problem. No evolution should improve with level. Especially not something that grant more attacks. I mean, a 200th level swarmlord has 42 natural weapons? For a single evolution?
About the swarmling : what is the formula for evolution points? At some levels, the swarmling gains 3, at others it gains 13, with apparently no real formula.
Why is it +7 Int? Why not +6 or +8?
it WAS 7 because they had Int 3, to give them a round ten. Since I realised they needed Int 2, that should have gone up.
This will be my last comment for today ; I'm going to read the enhancements. May I suggest one that grant a permanent Detect Psionics effect?
...why is it not just going up by one every level...
True, but they gain nothing and lose quite a bit from being Medium or larger. :P
See, the problem is that if I give their minions enough power and enough numbers to do a proper swarm, they'll annoy the rest of the party (and be incredibly OP)
Just assume tyranids and zerg are both led by ridonkulously epic Swarmlords. :P
Speaking of, I need to create a 'Spawn' evolution.Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-08-24, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Well, that would result in it having 10 more ep at level 20.
On Infestation Queen, perhaps let it apply to future spawn, but note it can't increase the HD of a swarm beyond what the highest HD you can infest, assimilate, etc. is. If it would do so, it instead waits until that would not exceed your cap.
On Pinnacle Swarm, I'd suggest the possibility of having it taken more than once, but not allow selecting the same evolution more than once.
On This Land is Mine, I'd suggest changing the wording of "which will infest everything around it for 20ft/class level within an hour/class level" to "which will infest everything within a radius of 20ft/class level at a rate of the radius increasing by 20ft/hour."
A possible thought, is the option to form mobs with your minions to reduce things slowing down too much (the link is to a revised version of the template in the DMGII, though there are likely other versions or methods).
Size Change should note that you can't use both the size increase and size decrease on the same creature (since it would just result in +2 Str and +2 Dex for 3 points, making it better than the 8 points that would be needed if you were using Enhanced Ability).
Also, perhaps an either an evolution or some just some options for evolution points that allow minions to be enhanced even further when on infested land (either specific options, or something more general such as being able to spend 1 less point, minimum one, on abilities, but they only grant the benefits while on infested land).
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2012-08-24, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
I can cope with that.
On Infestation Queen, perhaps let it apply to future spawn, but note it can't increase the HD of a swarm beyond what the highest HD you can infest, assimilate, etc. is. If it would do so, it instead waits until that would not exceed your cap.
On Pinnacle Swarm, I'd suggest the possibility of having it taken more than once, but not allow selecting the same evolution more than once.
On This Land is Mine, I'd suggest changing the wording of "which will infest everything around it for 20ft/class level within an hour/class level" to "which will infest everything within a radius of 20ft/class level at a rate of the radius increasing by 20ft/hour."
A possible thought, is the option to form mobs with your minions to reduce things slowing down too much (the link is to a revised version of the template in the DMGII, though there are likely other versions or methods).
It's possible that there's a better version, but I think I disagree with the purpose itself. A high level character SHOULD slaughter masses of minions. That's how heroic stories work.
Size Change should note that you can't use both the size increase and size decrease on the same creature (since it would just result in +2 Str and +2 Dex for 3 points, making it better than the 8 points that would be needed if you were using Enhanced Ability).
Also, perhaps an either an evolution or some just some options for evolution points that allow minions to be enhanced even further when on infested land (either specific options, or something more general such as being able to spend 1 less point, minimum one, on abilities, but they only grant the benefits while on infested land).Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-08-24, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
There SHOULD be? I disagree. Any ability that isn't an instantaneous, unscalable boost should scale.
I am not balancing for level 200.I disagree. It's not a combative class as is. And the size will make you easier to hit.Hive Node
Three points in this ability allow the Swarmling to function as if within Hive Mind range at all times. More points than this allow the Swarmling to control other members of the swarm as if it were a Swarmlord of class level equal to the number of points in this ability minus three.Last edited by Network; 2012-08-24 at 03:25 PM.
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2012-08-24, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
...that's not really a compromise.
I want it to scale.
If you don't want the class to go into epic, I'd ask you why you made something so awesome in the first place?
You may think it's not a combative class, but it has d8 hit dices, a 3/4 BAB progression, and the Blades of the Queen class feature, along with the swarmling (that can be made into a brawler) and the Lord Above, Ironscales and Weapons of the Queen evolutions. As it is, it is a combative class. With psionic powers and countless minions.
Do you realise that this ability is... weird when used with Pinnacle Swarm? This allow the swarmling to control the swarm as if it has one more level than its master swarmlord.Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-08-24, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Well, the purpose was to allow the player to more easily manage all their minions without it slowing the game too much, not to make them overwhelm high level enemies more than they would played normally. As mentioned, one of the main problems with minion master type characters is all the minion bog down gameplay. Being able to combine large numbers into what is effectively one creature with the power of all of them makes that easier to deal with.
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2012-08-24, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Ahhhh. That's a fair point, but I'm basically assuming that infested will not be kept with the party, simply because they'll die to 'most anything AoE.
Also that particular writeup makes me curl up in a ball and cry.Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-08-24, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Nice.
Just something I thought: If you wanted, you could alter the fluff on this to play it as a psionic Necromancer.
But really, why play that when you can SPAWN MOAR OVERLORDS!
Which is all I think of when I read embrace.
An Extra Evolution feat might be in order, to provide more things to do with your feats than just psionic stuff.Last edited by Drynwyn; 2012-08-24 at 07:37 PM.
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2012-08-24, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Might be a good idea. Not sure. Some of the evolutions are stronger than feats. xD
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2012-08-26, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
...that's not really a compromise.
I want it to scale.
Lord Above
This ability greatly increases the size of the Swarmlord. She increases by one size category, gaining +4 Str, +4 Con, -2 Dex and the standard size based changes to attack and skill rolls. These ability scores are instead of the usual changes to ability scores.Sky Swarm
This ability grants a Swarmlord great wings, or some other means of aerial propulsion. She gains a flight speed of 30ft (Average), +10ft for each five levels she possesses, and increasing in manoeuvrability by one stage for each ten levels she possesses.
SpoilerSky Swarm
This ability grants a Swarmlord great wings, or some other means of aerial propulsion. She gains a flight speed which depends of her swarmlord level :
Level | Flight speed | Manoeuvrability
4-9 | 30 ft. | Average
10-14 | 40 ft. | Good
15-19 | 50 ft. | Good
20 | 60 ft. | Perfect
The flight speed and manoeuvrability doesn't increase after the 20th level.
Weapons of the Queen
This ability grants vastly improved weapons to the Queen. She may gain an additional natural weapon for each five levels she possesses, and she may grant an enhancement bonus to each of her weapons equal to a third of her class level. Points of enhancement bonus may be traded for special abilities, and the enhancement bonus may not surpass 5.
Taking this ability gives each Swarmling she possesses up to two free points in the Additional/Enhanced Natural Weapon evolution, which don’t count towards their cap.
SpoilerWeapons of the Queen
This ability grants vastly improved weapons to the Queen. She gains an effective enhancement bonus to her natural weapons equal to one third of her level (rounded down). This bonus can be spend on weapon properties, but the real enhancement bonus can't exceed +5. She also gain more natural weapons, as with the Blade of the Queen class feature, according to her level :
Level | Additional natural weapons
4-9 | 1
10-14 | 2
15-19 | 3
20 | 4
She doesn't gain more natural weapons after the 20th level.
About swarmling evolutions, I noted an apparent flaw in Size Change : due to the wording, the +1 to natural armor seem to stack with the increase in size. Is this intentional?
While it's odd, it's intended. They should have those specific scores. It's not their mind anymore.
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2012-08-26, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
You're coming at this at cross purposes from me. I want things to scale, I want them to keep doing so post 20th level, and Swarmlord Evolutions are meant to be better than the Swarmling's equivalents.
Then why 10 Cha? How does the act of being a member of the swarm increase by +9 the Charisma of a zombie?
It's no longer a shambling abomination that exists only to feed on brains. It is still ugly and rotting, but it's not really a zombie anymore.Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-08-28, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Thoughts:
I really like the idea behind this class, and the execution of many of the concepts. The evolution abilities are also generally clever.
After taking this and making some swarmlings, which after all are some of the coolest stuff this class gets, I did find that the wording of several of the EP costs meant that there meaning was confusing. Thoughts on each of the abilities is as follows:
This ability seems good.
This part of the ability is useful, and adds decent power to the swarmlings.
This ability seems to add a reasonable amount of power to the swarmlings.
Ahh. This as written means that to increase a swarmlings weapons size once costs 2 points, twice is 3 points, three times is 4 points etc. If your going to use an increasing cost you might want to put an example in so that it is clear that one size increase is 2 points, two size increases to weapons is 3 points. INVALIDATED BY SIZE INCREASE
This ability looks to me like it is needlessly expensive for range. You should continue your trend of making increasing benefits increasingly expensive, but start out alot cheaper. 3 points for 10ft of range isn't that great at all. INVALIDATED POISION
This seems situational, but reasonably priced. However if you can't change swarmlings on the fly, and you don't have any prior knowledge of encounters, then unless the swarmlord is trying to be a nice queen and makes the swarmlings non-lethal, then I see no reason to take this ability.
This seems extremely expensive for a negligible increase.
In my opinion, this is the best balanced of all the swarmling abilities, especially since it scales linearly, which is nice.
Since the swarmling must meet the prerequisites of the feats taken, I see no reason why this shouldn't scale linearly. This makes this ability overly expensive.
A great ability useful to almost every type of swarmling.
This ability seems way to expensive. It should be one point for one ability increase.
Seems like a fun ability. A horde of exploding infested dire rats.
Pray tell what benefit does being controlled by a Swarmlord grant swarmlings? I mean they are controlled, but unless I've misread something drastically the EP is keyed of the Swarmlord who created the swarmlings at the time of their creation. However this ability is good, creating a functional lieutenant. Becuase the swarmling counts as if within Hive Mind range at all times, can the Swarmlord who created this Swarmling always send the Swarmling orders?
I'm not sure what to say for this one. At the same time as I want to say make it cheaper so your swarmlings can get better abilities, as you only ever get 4, at the same time that would make them to powerful.... I think this is great as is though. Good addition.
As an extension to this, would adding the ability for swarmlings to invest essentia and bind soulmelds through a similar function be a good idea?
No problems here.
Yep, this ability seems great. Technically, if you infest something with a burrow speed, and then make them a swarmling, you have to give them another burrow speed in order to enhance it. Would an idea be "For every 2evolution points invested in this ability, a swarmling may increase an existing movement speed by 10ft.
For 3 points a swarmling may gain a climb, burrow or swim speed of 30ft. These may be enhanced as normal through this ability.
For 5 points a swarmling may gain a fly speed of 30ft, maneuverability of Average.
For every 4 points invested in increasing the fly movement speed, the maneuverability of the fly speed is increased by one category, up to a maximum of perfect"?
Great, balanced, no problem here.
This is probably the most troubling ability. Not because it itself is overpowered or anything, I rather like it and think is is a good investment. However this constant point cost of 3 means that other abilities such as increasing the size of your natural weapons, which has an increasing cost per size increase, are invalidated because this ability both increases your weapon size, but also grants ability score increase. This ability is also far better than the inherent ability increases for your ability scores, because for only 3 points you can increase both Str and Con by 2. I would make increasing the size of your weapons cheaper, and also increasing your abilities cheaper so that more abilities are viable.
While these abilities are cool, most of them are so expensive that they aren't going to get much use till later in the game, or just at all.
Alter Form - Good ability, should be cheaper and just transform using a disguise self like effect into some humanoid.
Breath Weapon - Decent, well priced and interesting. Would other types of breath weapon for additional points be a good idea?
Constrict - Good ability, but the extension to the price seems too great. 3 points for only 1d6 damage? Maybe increasing the strength modifier as well would be a good idea.
Darkvision - 4 points for darkvision seems extremely pricey. I think 2 would be much more reasonable.
Energy Drain - This is a great idea, especially the once per encounter limit, and well priced.
Evasion - Useful, but like mettle below this is slightly overpriced with disposable minions.
Fast Healing - Great ability, well priced and a good idea to tack on the regenerative properties.
Frightful Presence - This is a good ability, and is well priced.
Improved Grab - This is confusing. Does this mean if i take this once, all the swarmlings tentacle attacks have Improved Grab? Or only one of the tentacles? If the latter, this ability is well priced.
Lightning Charge - Good, but again slightly cheaper would be nice, as this isn't that great.
Mettle - Good, but with disposable minions this is less useful than it appears. I think the cost might be decreased a bit, because you can always replace minions.
Paralysis - This is way to non-specific. Does the paralysis wear off or not? If I give my swarmlings ranged weapons can they use this at range? This is also a really good ability. I would make it last for a number of rounds based on your Swarmlord class level, or the number of evolution points invested in it, because as is, this is a save or die touch attack with disposable minions at level 9.
Poison - This is awesomely powerful as is. At 5th level, you can have a swarmling potentially doing 8d4 con damage in one round, with 2 extra natural weapons and the posion ability. Also if you give your weapons range, injury poison will be transmitted with your weapons, so poison shouldn't need a range ability. You need to specify what type of ability damage this does. You might want to make this do less damage to begin with, cost less and increase slower. Eg 3 points for 1 point of ability damage, 6 points for 1d4, 10 points for 1d6, 15 points for 2d6.
Pounce - I think this is too expensive, it should probably be more like 3 or even 2 points.
Scent - All's well here.
Swallow Whole - Do they take damage when inside the stomach of the Swarmling?
Trample - Seems much to weak considering the plethora of attacks you can get through investing points elsewhere
This ability is a great idea, but your swarmlings are only going to be able to contribute meaningfully if you specialize competely in this ability (taking Distant Manifestation twice, and taking Pinnacle Swarm [Spirit Force]), as otherwise at level two, your swarmlings will only be able to cast 3rd level powers/spells. Would getting a caster level at the first point, second point and every second point there after (4 points=CL 3, 6 points=CL 4 etc.) be more reasonable? The maximum caster level achievable for your swarmlings then is 15, with full specialization. Maybe that is a bit to high, but some kind of increase would be nice.
This ability is the best, it is literally the thing that makes this class so cool, but it grants you so few swarmlings. This would be great to have new swarmlings every 4 points, ie 4 points = 2 swarmlings, 8 points = 3 swarmlings etc.
Also does each swarmling get a evolution points equal to your total pool minise the cost of this evolution? Or is the one pool used to buy evolutions for each swarmling seperately, ie getting 1 extra HD for 3 swarmlings would be 6EP (evolution points)? If the latter is the case, then the evolution points pool created by the Swarmlord is to low, and prevents meaningful customization.
Making a high charisma grant bonus EP to the pool as if granting bonus power points based on ability modifier and Swarmlord level could be a way of mitigating this.
Overall, really love the class. Great work .
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2012-08-28, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Thanks! A lot of your feedback seems really helpful!
Ahh. This as written means that to increase a swarmlings weapons size once costs 2 points, twice is 3 points, three times is 4 points etc. If your going to use an increasing cost you might want to put an example in so that it is clear that one size increase is 2 points, two size increases to weapons is 3 points. INVALIDATED BY SIZE INCREASE
This ability looks to me like it is needlessly expensive for range. You should continue your trend of making increasing benefits increasingly expensive, but start out alot cheaper. 3 points for 10ft of range isn't that great at all. INVALIDATED POISION
(Intention on poison isn't quite that, will clarify.)
This seems situational, but reasonably priced. However if you can't change swarmlings on the fly, and you don't have any prior knowledge of encounters, then unless the swarmlord is trying to be a nice queen and makes the swarmlings non-lethal, then I see no reason to take this ability.
This seems extremely expensive for a negligible increase.
Although perhaps 2/2/7 would be better.
In my opinion, this is the best balanced of all the swarmling abilities, especially since it scales linearly, which is nice.
Since the swarmling must meet the prerequisites of the feats taken, I see no reason why this shouldn't scale linearly. This makes this ability overly expensive.
A great ability useful to almost every type of swarmling.
This ability seems way to expensive. It should be one point for one ability increase.
Seems like a fun ability. A horde of exploding infested dire rats.
Pray tell what benefit does being controlled by a Swarmlord grant swarmlings? I mean they are controlled, but unless I've misread something drastically the EP is keyed of the Swarmlord who created the swarmlings at the time of their creation. However this ability is good, creating a functional lieutenant. Becuase the swarmling counts as if within Hive Mind range at all times, can the Swarmlord who created this Swarmling always send the Swarmling orders?
I'm not sure what to say for this one. At the same time as I want to say make it cheaper so your swarmlings can get better abilities, as you only ever get 4, at the same time that would make them to powerful.... I think this is great as is though. Good addition.
As an extension to this, would adding the ability for swarmlings to invest essentia and bind soulmelds through a similar function be a good idea?
And I'm pretty sure that'd be fine, I just don't use binding to know how it works. xD
Yep, this ability seems great. Technically, if you infest something with a burrow speed, and then make them a swarmling, you have to give them another burrow speed in order to enhance it. Would an idea be "For every 2evolution points invested in this ability, a swarmling may increase an existing movement speed by 10ft.
For 3 points a swarmling may gain a climb, burrow or swim speed of 30ft. These may be enhanced as normal through this ability.
For 5 points a swarmling may gain a fly speed of 30ft, maneuverability of Average.
For every 4 points invested in increasing the fly movement speed, the maneuverability of the fly speed is increased by one category, up to a maximum of perfect"?
This is probably the most troubling ability. Not because it itself is overpowered or anything, I rather like it and think is is a good investment. However this constant point cost of 3 means that other abilities such as increasing the size of your natural weapons, which has an increasing cost per size increase, are invalidated because this ability both increases your weapon size, but also grants ability score increase. This ability is also far better than the inherent ability increases for your ability scores, because for only 3 points you can increase both Str and Con by 2. I would make increasing the size of your weapons cheaper, and also increasing your abilities cheaper so that more abilities are viable.
While these abilities are cool, most of them are so expensive that they aren't going to get much use till later in the game, or just at all.
Alter Form - Good ability, should be cheaper and just transform using a disguise self like effect into some humanoid.
Breath Weapon - Decent, well priced and interesting. Would other types of breath weapon for additional points be a good idea?
Constrict - Good ability, but the extension to the price seems too great. 3 points for only 1d6 damage? Maybe increasing the strength modifier as well would be a good idea.
Darkvision - 4 points for darkvision seems extremely pricey. I think 2 would be much more reasonable.
Energy Drain - This is a great idea, especially the once per encounter limit, and well priced.
Evasion - Useful, but like mettle below this is slightly overpriced with disposable minions.
Fast Healing - Great ability, well priced and a good idea to tack on the regenerative properties.
Frightful Presence - This is a good ability, and is well priced.
Improved Grab - This is confusing. Does this mean if i take this once, all the swarmlings tentacle attacks have Improved Grab? Or only one of the tentacles? If the latter, this ability is well priced.
Lightning Charge - Good, but again slightly cheaper would be nice, as this isn't that great.
Mettle - Good, but with disposable minions this is less useful than it appears. I think the cost might be decreased a bit, because you can always replace minions.
Paralysis - This is way to non-specific. Does the paralysis wear off or not? If I give my swarmlings ranged weapons can they use this at range? This is also a really good ability. I would make it last for a number of rounds based on your Swarmlord class level, or the number of evolution points invested in it, because as is, this is a save or die touch attack with disposable minions at level 9.
Poison - This is awesomely powerful as is. At 5th level, you can have a swarmling potentially doing 8d4 con damage in one round, with 2 extra natural weapons and the posion ability. Also if you give your weapons range, injury poison will be transmitted with your weapons, so poison shouldn't need a range ability. You need to specify what type of ability damage this does. You might want to make this do less damage to begin with, cost less and increase slower. Eg 3 points for 1 point of ability damage, 6 points for 1d4, 10 points for 1d6, 15 points for 2d6.
Pounce - I think this is too expensive, it should probably be more like 3 or even 2 points.
Scent - All's well here.
Swallow Whole - Do they take damage when inside the stomach of the Swarmling?
Trample - Seems much to weak considering the plethora of attacks you can get through investing points elsewhere
This ability is a great idea, but your swarmlings are only going to be able to contribute meaningfully if you specialize competely in this ability (taking Distant Manifestation twice, and taking Pinnacle Swarm [Spirit Force]), as otherwise at level two, your swarmlings will only be able to cast 3rd level powers/spells. Would getting a caster level at the first point, second point and every second point there after (4 points=CL 3, 6 points=CL 4 etc.) be more reasonable? The maximum caster level achievable for your swarmlings then is 15, with full specialization. Maybe that is a bit to high, but some kind of increase would be nice.
Now... perhaps if each third point let them cast one level of spells. It would need to cap at eight at the very HIGHEST, and preferably lower. Six would seem good, at one less than the swarmlord, but... I'm not sure at all.
This ability is the best, it is literally the thing that makes this class so cool, but it grants you so few swarmlings. This would be great to have new swarmlings every 4 points, ie 4 points = 2 swarmlings, 8 points = 3 swarmlings etc.
Also does each swarmling get a evolution points equal to your total pool minise the cost of this evolution? Or is the one pool used to buy evolutions for each swarmling seperately, ie getting 1 extra HD for 3 swarmlings would be 6EP (evolution points)? If the latter is the case, then the evolution points pool created by the Swarmlord is to low, and prevents meaningful customization.
Making a high charisma grant bonus EP to the pool as if granting bonus power points based on ability modifier and Swarmlord level could be a way of mitigating this.
The pool is for all of them to share. Having several weak or one strong is meant to be a valid choice.
However, I think I have a valid way to help it that you just inspired.
Overall, really love the class. Great work .Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-08-29, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
First of all, the all caps INVALIDATED wasn't meant to mean that the ability was bad or anything, just a reminder to me to come back and discuss the relative benefits of abilites. Wasn't meant to offend .
You know how different dragons have cool different breaths? Maybe if you paid extra EP you could get a swarmling breathing sonic energy, or dealing strength damage or something. Though on second thoughts this latter part conflicts with poison.... Actually this ability is fine.
Not sure. Pounce is STRONG.
I'm very, very leery of this ability. It currently uses the same scaling as the Martial abilities. At level 20, with pinnacle, you can get it to 24, which gives them Cast/manifest as an 8th level, with level 4 spells/powers.
Now... perhaps if each third point let them cast one level of spells. It would need to cap at eight at the very HIGHEST, and preferably lower. Six would seem good, at one less than the swarmlord, but... I'm not sure at all.
Well, the problem is time! If you have three swarmlings, your turn could take four times as long as another players, and that's assuming you share initiative.
The pool is for all of them to share. Having several weak or one strong is meant to be a valid choice.
However, I think I have a valid way to help it that you just inspired.
Overall the number of points each swarmling gets seems perfect now.
Also with all your changes I like what I see.
Great work!
EDIT: Quote boxes broke, had to fix them.Last edited by Hellwyrm; 2012-08-29 at 10:35 PM.
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2012-08-30, 09:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
No probs, I got that. ^^
You know how different dragons have cool different breaths? Maybe if you paid extra EP you could get a swarmling breathing sonic energy, or dealing strength damage or something. Though on second thoughts this latter part conflicts with poison.... Actually this ability is fine.
Yeah this ability is probably the hardest to pitch correctly. At the same time as this can lead to superpowered spell casting swarmlings, it can also make them to weak and make melee/weapon swarmlings much more powerful. Perhaps one spell level at one point, then one more spell level at 6 points, 12 points and 18 points (and again at 24 if you got the pinnacle ability). So thats almost exactly the same as your ability, it just comes online a little quicker at the beginning. This would cap the max spell level at 4, or at 5 if you got the pinnacle ability? And maybe only one swarmling per swarmlord may cast spells or powers?
Perhaps four points for each level...
After thinking about it more, and realising that your swarmlings can come from infested or assimilated creatures, swarmlings are powerful enough that your proposed limits are great. At the same time as I want to awesomeness of THE HORDE, I know that its unfeasible. I'm playing with a Dread Necro right now, when everyone in the party can cast, and does cast, Animate Undead, and each turn is SLOW.
Overall the number of points each swarmling gets seems perfect now.
Also with all your changes I like what I see.
Great work!
EDIT: Quote boxes broke, had to fix them.
...hmm. If you assimilate something with your HD, and make it a swarmling, it then gets 1/2 HD in bonus HD, and then you buy half/HD for it... Don't think this is working as intended...Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-09-27, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
LOVE THIS CLASS
Other then that all I can say is that I really want to play it and to ask if you could please finish that bit in the infested area "Hive Minds-I Am Me And We Are The Swarm" (I don't mean to pressure you but I just don't feel like my DM would let me play this class until that bit has been finished)
Thanks for making an awesome classLast edited by Andrian Talehot; 2012-09-27 at 08:19 AM.
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2012-09-27, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Wow, this class is one of the best I've ever seen.
As for the Capstone abilities, I would say having the immortality, terminator, and then one or two more options to choose from. At this point in time I can't think of any suggestions, however I will think on it.
Also, amazing class.
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2012-09-27, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-09-27, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
A few things:
-As is, there is no cap on how many minions you can have. Even if this was intentional, I have to disagree with this vehemently. If you don't want the class to be broken from the get-go, you need to have a maximum number of minions.
-As written, the level cap on evolution points in a single evolution does not apply to Infested, Assimilated, or Embraced.
-When and how do you apply Evolution points? Do you simply apply them when you get a level and then have to wait a level before your minions improve, or is there a ritual? Can you redistribute Evolution points?
-The bonus points per minion does not specify which ability score they are keyed off of.
-I think the evolution costs might need to scale just a little bit faster. Not sure about this one, though, as I'll have to do some maths.
I might be forgetting a couple, so I'll try and remember them later on.
EDIT: Oh, yes!
-How does one go about replacing a dead Swarmling? Also, when it says you turn an Infested or Assimilated into a Swarmling instead of just making one, how and when does this happen? Is it when you gain a level, or is there a ritual?
Aside from those, it's pretty good so far.Last edited by Gideon Falcon; 2012-09-27 at 03:28 PM.
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2012-09-27, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
I noticed that, while you said it was a good idea, Rite of Succession isn't in the feats or the evolutions, nor is something with similar effects. Do you intend to add it/something like it at some point, or did you change your mind?
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2012-09-27, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Huh? But the swarmlings are-
Oh, right. Yeah. That's very strong, and I couldn't think of any way to balance it. However, on thinking, I could use the precedent from animate dead. Will edit.
-As written, the level cap on evolution points in a single evolution does not apply to Infested, Assimilated, or Embraced.
-When and how do you apply Evolution points? Do you simply apply them when you get a level and then have to wait a level before your minions improve, or is there a ritual? Can you redistribute Evolution points?
-The bonus points per minion does not specify which ability score they are keyed off of.
-I think the evolution costs might need to scale just a little bit faster. Not sure about this one, though, as I'll have to do some maths.
-How does one go about replacing a dead Swarmling? Also, when it says you turn an Infested or Assimilated into a Swarmling instead of just making one, how and when does this happen? Is it when you gain a level, or is there a ritual?
However, I will explain how long it normally takes.
As for turning infested and co into swarmlings, that would be 'whenever you would gain a new swarmling', which I'll also add.
Aside from those, it's pretty good so far.
I forgot. xD I'll add something like it.Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2012-09-27 at 04:30 PM.
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2012-09-27, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
-When and how do you apply Evolution points? Do you simply apply them when you get a level and then have to wait a level before your minions improve, or is there a ritual? Can you redistribute Evolution points?
Not sure if I'm clear, though.Last edited by Network; 2012-09-27 at 04:29 PM.
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2012-09-27, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Mutable Form
This Evolution allows a Swarmling to adapt to the situation. Each third point in this ability grants two floating evolution points. As a full round action, the Swarmling may assign these points to any Evolution he qualifies for.
Like that one, that already exists?Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-09-28, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
Oh and another thing that I forgot to mention. How long does it take for the cocoons to catch and when over the course of the infestation does the victim take their saves?
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2012-09-28, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
The cocoons form instantly when they fail their fort save, and they make a will save at the END of the duration.
That's written in the ability. Should I make it clearer?Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-09-29, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
no don't make it clearer. I'm just unsure as to how long that they will be in the cocoon before you get your infected. (After all it would be op if it was straight away after they failed their saves but really annoying if it took as long as it did for Kerrgian to hatch in SC).
EDIT: whoops never mind... just reread the ability ... don't know how I missed thatLast edited by Andrian Talehot; 2012-09-29 at 07:30 AM.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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2012-09-29, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
It's okay, everyone derps. xD
Do you think I could reword it to make it clearer, or were you just being herpaderp?Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
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2012-09-30, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
herpaderp :P
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
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2012-10-01, 08:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Swarm Arrives [3.5 Base Class-Zerg, Tyranids]
If you're going to base the minion limit off HD like Animate Dead, that brings up another issue with Embraced and Assimilated: The bonus HD mutation. It's not a problem with the minion cap beyond being fairly clunky, but the big problem is with the templates that can be applied to other PCs. You don't want your friends to be able to gain half their level in extra HD, because that kind of messes up the game. So, you'll want to put in a preventative clause.
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