League of Legends XL: Season on Hold 'til Morello gets Gold

[ex cathedra]

Half of the active is a +100%AS buff. If you're pairing it with a champ's ability that caps his AS, that means that half of the active is literally having no effect.

But... so? Jayce reaaaaally benefits from Crit chance but reaaaallllly doesn't like Zeal upgrades. If the effect read "Your next three attacks automatically crit," I would be like "that's hella dope on Jayce."

It could be that I'm building Jayce wrong, but I don't think I would ever pick up IE on him. BT is always preferred because the flat AD actually works with his abilities (notably, gated Q), and he can't build that squishy because he wants to be able to jump into melee and use his hammer form so he can't really build that many pure offensive items. Overall, AS just doesn't seem that great on him - he's semi-AD caster and has his cannon W for when he really needs to shoot fast.

If you're already building BT, LW, and GA every game why wouldn't you get an IE, though? Any two of GA, Frozen Heart, Scimitar, Maw, and Randuin's is more than enough defense, and you don't actually want to switch to Hammer form unless you absolutely need to. Why wouldn't you want to have 525 attack range, bro? Hammer Q when chasing and skirmishing, Hammer E when you're getting dived. You generally don't want to switch to hammer form, you're just sometimes forced to.

SotD isn't an attack speed item on Jayce, it's a crit item with which he has a lot of synergy.

[Eldariel]

SotD isn't an attack speed item on Jayce, it's a crit item with which he has a lot of synergy.

Well, wasting half an item is pretty huge especially since the crit chance will prolly go over the top too (since you prolly have at least Infinity Edge to go with it). Whether it's still worth it is another question but again, I'd much rather see it on champs with inherent AD steroids.

[ex cathedra]

Well, wasting half an item is pretty huge especially since the crit chance will prolly go over the top too (since you prolly have at least Infinity Edge to go with it). Whether it's still worth it is another question but again, I'd much rather see it on champs with inherent AD steroids.

Isn't a 30% Total AD steroid kind of an AD steroid? :p

Laudandus swears by CDR-tank on him, and Aether and I both advocated BT on him in S2. The SotD thing, I'm not sold on the overall viability of it, but I still don't think the AS-scaling issue is that big of an actual issue.

I felt so god damned vindicated when Triforce Jayce fell out of favor and BT rush became the norm. I don't think that SotD is optimal on Jayce, but that's mostly because Black Cleaver + Last Whisper is really, really dumb.

Muramana Teemo? Does Toxic Shot charge and/or apply Muramana goodness

Uh. I feel like this would be obvious to anyone who knows what Teemo's skills do. Even if he could charge it, what's the point? Teemo has virtually zero mana consumption and his auto-attacks have a .4 AP ratio. There's literally no incentive to build Manamune.

[Math_Mage]

The thing is, though, SotD makes Jayce a wicked ranged autoattacker as well as enabling the ridiculous combo. I don't think AS is a wasted stat on him late-game.

Okay, I see where the issue is: You are thinking in terms of just benefits to ad carries, while I'm thinking of benefits for the whole team.

Just sayin', I'm pretty sure the issue was that you were interpreting my remarks as applying to Aegis, when from the beginning I specifically singled out the upgrade to Bulwark as not worth it. Since you just agreed with me on that, I think we have no points of disagreement.

[Lix Lorn]

Muramana Teemo? Does Toxic Shot charge and/or apply Muramana goodness

Teemo has nothing to stack the tear. If he could GET it stacked, then yeah, he'd be bringing some pain. But getting it there would be hard.
...although, manamune charges on autoattack, so that'd work.

Maybe?

[NineThePuma]

Hurricane+Manamune = Super Charge stacking? Must test.

[Eldariel]

Isn't a 30% Total AD steroid kind of an AD steroid? :p

Sure and a damn good one at that but it comes at a cost; Jayce's attack range is relatively short, his AA damage outside W is nothing to write home about, his kit isn't really good for escaping in teamfights (he escapes well from individual opponents with hammerform but if he's dealing with multiple people his lack of escapes hurts) and overall, meh.

[Lix Lorn]

Nope. Manamune is once per 5 (?) seconds.

[Forrestfire]

Well, wasting half an item is pretty huge especially since the crit chance will prolly go over the top too (since you prolly have at least Infinity Edge to go with it). Whether it's still worth it is another question but again, I'd much rather see it on champs with inherent AD steroids.

To be fair, the item only costs 2200 gold, and Jayce does benefit from the +55% attack speed anyway, even if it's not the best. The 100% boost from the active is irrelevant, because it's a medium-cost item that turns him from a bruiser into a burst assassin that still has the rest of his abilities up.

It all depends on how you're playing him, though. If you build Jayce CDR tank, then there's probably no reason to get the SotD. However, many players I've played with and against build Jayce BT+IE+LW, which makes Sword of the Divine absurd.

It's all up to playstyle I guess. I"d have to try it (or someone else could) before deciding if I liked how it worked in practice.

[Mtg_player_zach]

Try to fit as many insults as possible into champion select.
This gets your teammates excited.
And they will play better.



Unrelated:
Sometimes I think it would be great fun to tank my elo into oblivion (<900),with a friend, then duo queue as the dumbest things and win all the games. I think it would be fantastic and I want to.
YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Does this make me a bad person?

[ex cathedra]

Try to fit as many insults as possible into champion select.
This gets your teammates excited.
And they will play better.

This is my favorite strategy.

Unrelated:
Sometimes I think it would be great fun to tank my elo into oblivion (<900),with a friend, then duo queue as the dumbest things and win all the games. I think it would be fantastic and I want to.
YIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIII
Does this make me a bad person?

Yes.

Also smite/teleport yi works. you just need to man up and tell your lanes to not lose.

[dgnslyr]

Since we still seem to be talking about SotD Jayce, building IE + SotD doesn't actually give him all that much more damage than BT + LW + Bruta, which costs only slightly more. This is just on his W active, by the way: he doesn't get saddled down with a 2200gp deadweight-item afterwards, and his abilities also deal more damage with a more conventional AD build.

[Eldariel]

Uhm. It occurs to me Riot just broke the Mastery Autosaving at least for Proving Grounds. I've played one game without Masteries 'cause it asked me to save them only AFTER the game had started (and thus, I only got to click "Yes" after it ended). I also played against a Malphite with the same problem. Probably a bug related to the last patch...?

[Godskook]

Well, wasting half an item is pretty huge especially since the crit chance will prolly go over the top too (since you prolly have at least Infinity Edge to go with it). Whether it's still worth it is another question but again, I'd much rather see it on champs with inherent AD steroids.

Eld, you're getting too concerned with the starting point. With ADCarries, that's not the biggest concern. The concern is their end-game, and if Jayce can leverage the overall combo better than other champions, it really doesn't matter that he's 'wasting stats'.

Since we still seem to be talking about SotD Jayce, building IE + SotD doesn't actually give him all that much more damage than BT + LW + Bruta, which costs only slightly more. This is just on his W active, by the way: he doesn't get saddled down with a 2200gp deadweight-item afterwards, and his abilities also deal more damage with a more conventional AD build.

And costs an additional slot. Why do people forget that?

[LordShotGun]

And costs an additional slot. Why do people forget that?

Because by the time the slots actually matter, the majority of games are already decided. As for the rest of the games that end up being evenly matched past the 25-30 minute mark, only then do slot limits start to matter.

Edit: Is it just me or is sightstone the new heart of gold? I mean, there is no jungler that doesn't want a bit more health and the peace of mind knowing that you will never have to buy wards again!

[Math_Mage]

And costs an additional slot. Why do people forget that?

BT LW Bruta builds into BT LW BC, which is one of the most slot-efficient item combinations in the game.

[Godskook]

Because by the time the slots actually matter, the majority of games are already decided. As for the rest of the games that end up being evenly matched past the 25-30 minute mark, only then do slot limits start to matter.

Between non-linear item builds, boots, wards, dorans and flask, I find it very hard to believe that people aren't leveraging all 6 slots by the time you can farm a IE+SotD(or equivalent gold value). Hell, Laudandus hit 6 items in 12 minutes in the game I just spectated.

[TFT]

The thing is, though, SotD makes Jayce a wicked ranged autoattacker as well as enabling the ridiculous combo. I don't think AS is a wasted stat on him late-game.



Just sayin', I'm pretty sure the issue was that you were interpreting my remarks as applying to Aegis, when from the beginning I specifically singled out the upgrade to Bulwark as not worth it. Since you just agreed with me on that, I think we have no points of disagreement.

Mmmm, I suppose, though the fact that you didn't correct me(Or I didn't reread it but why would I do that ) made me think you thought rushing Crucible was better then getting any part of Bulwark(Specifically the aegis part). Clearly that isn't the case. At least I made reasoning for people who might want to know.

[sonofzeal]

ADC Urgot: Tear, Brutalizer, Manamune, Ionians --> Ionians+Furor, 2x BC, Muramana, LW, GA.

Is Furor actually worth it? I mean, 12% situational that decays fairly quickly doesn't seem a good trade against a static +15 all the time, which helps you get around the map faster and lets you catch up to or outrun characters who went Furor if you're even slightly outside of attack range.



Otherwise, looks great, but how might that change in Dominion / TT? Dominion, I think the global mana regen boost and general rapidity of deaths discourage getting tear, and the shorter game length makes charging it unlikely anyway, but the new changes to movement speed make starting Brutalizer a powerful option. I might get that GA or LW in between the two BCs there.

In TT... you start with enough for a Tear and a few pots, and I think that might be best there. Games are still shorter, but sustain is relevant and it's long enough that charging it is at least possible for someone like Urgot with his ridiculously short Q cooldown.

[Math_Mage]

Is Furor actually worth it? I mean, 12% situational that decays fairly quickly doesn't seem a good trade against a static +15 all the time, which helps you get around the map faster and lets you catch up to or outrun characters who went Furor if you're even slightly outside of attack range.

Urgot gets a good 40ish movespeed from Furor whenever he's within 1k range of anything important. Alacrity is a close second, but I don't see it being more valuable in the final analysis.

[Godskook]

Is Furor actually worth it? I mean, 12% situational that decays fairly quickly doesn't seem a good trade against a static +15 all the time, which helps you get around the map faster and lets you catch up to or outrun characters who went Furor if you're even slightly outside of attack range.

15 MS isn't going to add up to a lot when roaming, while 12% is going to mean a whole hell of a lot when chasing down a target you've landed the first E+Q combo on.

[Ashen Lilies]

Graves is fun. Graves is really really very much so fun. Why do all the fun champs cost so much IP...

[McDouggal]

Shen is more fun-although having champs at half health continue running away as you ult to them, blowing Ghost and/or Flash and thus giving up 1, maybe 2 kills is very annoying.

[Godskook]

Edit: Is it just me or is sightstone the new heart of gold? I mean, there is no jungler that doesn't want a bit more health and the peace of mind knowing that you will never have to buy wards again!

The new jungle still feels really weird to me. If I prioritize jungle items, my gank presence feels underwhelming, both offensively and defensively. If I prioritize non-jungle items, I either feel incredibly squishy or useless at clearing my own jungle. Getting an early sightstone would only compound this problem, but its quite possilble I'm just doing the jungle wrong right now, and a bit of theorycrafting and practice would iron it out.

Graves is fun. Graves is really really very much so fun. Why do all the fun champs cost so much IP...

Ryze is 450 IP
Warwick is 1350 IP
Singed is 1350 IP
Veigar is 1350 IP
Champion X is 1350 IP or less(that champ I 'forgot' that the next poster will remind me about)

Also, 6300 IP only really seems like a lot for a champ cause you're newer to the game. By the time you're closer to 1k wins than not, you'll start coming up with 'methods' to spend your IP so you have reasons to earn more.

[Temotei]

Urgot gets a good 40ish movespeed from Furor whenever he's within 1k range of anything important. Alacrity is a close second, but I don't see it being more valuable in the final analysis.

15 MS isn't going to add up to a lot when roaming, while 12% is going to mean a whole hell of a lot when chasing down a target you've landed the first E+Q combo on.

None of this matters because homeguard is hilarious. ALWAYS GET HOMEGUARD.

Note: Don't actually. It's just really funny.

[Dalejn]

I am in need of a help deciding which champion to buy . I just got 6300 and Im not sure should i pick up skarner or nocturne . I tried both during their respective free weeks and liked the feel of both . What do you guys think which one would perform better in the jungle and overall pros and cons

[Temotei]

I am in need of a help deciding which champion to buy . I just got 6300 and Im not sure should i pick up skarner or nocturne . I tried both during their respective free weeks and liked the feel of both . What do you guys think which one would perform better in the jungle and overall pros and cons

Nocturne's big advantage is that he gets to bypass wards when his ult is up for ganks. Skarner's is that if he catches the opponent, they're probably dead because of the permaslow + ult. Both do significant damage without itemizing too much of it, but for different reasons: Nocturne has a bunch of steroids while Skarner has good sustained damage with his Q. Skarner builds CDR tank, Nocturne builds bruiser, as far as I know.

Both have good sustain in the jungle, though Skarner beats Nocturne in that department early on especially. Skarner has better ganks until level 6, at which point it depends on the situation.

I prefer Skarner, personally, but Nocturne is okay, too.

[LordShotGun]

The new jungle still feels really weird to me. If I prioritize jungle items, my gank presence feels underwhelming, both offensively and defensively. If I prioritize non-jungle items, I either feel incredibly squishy or useless at clearing my own jungle. Getting an early sightstone would only compound this problem, but its quite possilble I'm just doing the jungle wrong right now, and a bit of theorycrafting and practice would iron it out.

Oddone has been getting a sightstone ASAP right after a machete and boots and it doesn't seem to have affected his ganks any. It does however, make him seriously squishy during any engagement over 3 people (I am including your teammates in this number) and makes tower dives very difficult.

Personally I very much dislike the oracle change and free wards items. These changes make vision a much more readily available commodity compared to when wards were insanely valuable and the enemy team getting an oracles was a serious threat.

[Eldariel]

Eld, you're getting too concerned with the starting point. With ADCarries, that's not the biggest concern. The concern is their end-game, and if Jayce can leverage the overall combo better than other champions, it really doesn't matter that he's 'wasting stats'.

And costs an additional slot. Why do people forget that?

Well, the additional slot isn't that big of a deal if we're talking who uses SotD the best

Otherwise, looks great, but how might that change in Dominion / TT? Dominion, I think the global mana regen boost and general rapidity of deaths discourage getting tear, and the shorter game length makes charging it unlikely anyway, but the new changes to movement speed make starting Brutalizer a powerful option. I might get that GA or LW in between the two BCs there.

In Dom Urgot is generally played bot; people didn't use to get Manamunes but Muramana damage output is just so high it'd be a shame to not get it now. Remember, Muramana Urgot actually uses all his mana real fast due to the percentile burn so the extra mana regen comes in very handy. You can also start Tear and charge it for about 100 before Minion Spawn which is real nice.

I usually just go Muramana > BC and then get tanky stuff (Spirit Visage or Glacial to hit CDR cap and go from there). Of course, tanky stuff suffers from the rampant armor pen and shred so I'm not sure about the best way to go about itemizing it. And yes, Urgot is of course a very good Black Cleaver stacker.

[NineThePuma]

First impression of Vi is that she is a beast who likes to kill things.

Her early game could use some polish, but her end game is very much "That was the enemy team? I thought I was just ganking a lane..." in my opinion. Admittedly, the fact that she doesn't have life steal as part of her recommended items is a turn off.