OOTS #870 - The Discussion Thread

[WindStruck]

This does make you wonder if Malack wanted to turn Durkon as well... either way, why I could completely see that happening, seeing as he had a friendship coming along, it just seems Belkar and Malack are not.... compatible. To say the least. At least I think there's a good chance Belkar will start LIKING Malack, seeing as it's probably an undead spawn/master thing.

[Onyavar]

"How will I finally return to my beloved dwarven homelands?

Poshumously.

Well, Belkar won't stay an only child, I guess.

[Squark]

I kinda thought he was going to freakishly eat Belkar before I got here.
Vampire. Huh.

You're not alone- My first thought was, "Wait, does Malak need fresh blood for mating or something?"

Then I came here. "Oooooooooooh."

[leakingpen]

So just as Belkar at least learns to FAKE not being evil and murderous, he gets turned into a machine that must kill to live. BWAHAHAHA!

[MReav]

Hey, the Belkar will be turned undead and Belkar will die and not come back are not mutually exclusive. Belkar gets turned into an undead, is destroyed as an undead, and then no one brings him back.

[Winged One]

I am jealous that you got to say it first. Can I sig that?

I'd be delighted!

[Sarone]

Woah, that was interesting.

If anything, it might be just a variation of being a vampire spawn. Malack will command Belkar to go back to his friends and not mention anything, until he can get Nale.

Then he commands Belkar to attack Nale, regardless of what the rest of the party wants to do.

[Rendel Nep]

Probably a vampire spawn. Mind you belkar probably has a couple of attempts to break free before his Con is drained. Although with a +8 str modifier and a size bonus, it's going to be hard for Belkar to break free from Malacks grasp

[tyckspoon]

Yep, it would appear to be a Vampire's Energy Draining touch. It doesn't have obvious verbal components like most spells in OotS, and appears to heal the slight injury Malack sustained from the impact of Belkar's head.

Could be, although Vampires also come with Fast Healing, so they don't actually have to *do* anything to heal. (Also DR 10/Silver+Magic, so I'd posit that Malack didn't actually suffer any real damage from having Belkar fall on him and was just annoyed and maybe slightly bruised.) ((Also-also D&D Vampires create new vampires with their Energy Drain attack, not the blood sucking.. but the classic bite-to-turn or feeding the victim some of the vampire's blood to change them makes a much more powerful image, so I can live with not getting to see Malack beat Belkar to (un)death with Energy Drain Slams.)

[hamishspence]

While the blood drinking doesn't require the vampire to kill- the energy draining would need to be of 3rd level characters (or 3 HD creatures) if the vampire wishes to avoid killing victims.

Those aren't very common.

[ericgrau]

Looking forward to Belkar 2.0.

[The Troubadour]

That was freakin' awesome!

[Onyavar]

Still, I'm a bit wondering about Malacks speech ballons.

Shouldn't they be black and white?
like Roys here?
or the doctor's here?

Edit: Missed the black bubble in the last panel

[Kairamek]

That was every bit as satisfying as I hoped it would be. But I fear Malick has *puts on sunglasses* bitten off more than he can chew.

[Bharg]

Hold on, guys! He might just eat him.

[hamishspence]

Also-also D&D Vampires create new vampires with their Energy Drain attack, not the blood sucking.. but the classic bite-to-turn or feeding the victim some of the vampire's blood to change them makes a much more powerful image

Actually if they want a true vampire, rather than a vampire spawn, they need to drain blood.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

[zql]

I just hope that in the next strip V or someone appears to save the Belkster and this is just a giant red herring. I'd hate that the undead theory people got it straight. I mean, I'm first to admire the halfling, but I expect him to die in a totally awesome way, like, sorrounded by enemy corpses and bitches (?) or even a stupid one, but a real death. I just don't want to see Belkar without free will.

[HandofShadows]

Undead Belkar. That has been a personal theory for some time now. I did NOT see it happening this way though.

PS. This also means that Belkar is going to be around to cause problems. Roy, you are not free from him yet.

[Nettlekid]

O.O

O____________________________________O

Well, I for one feel really stupid about not seeing any of this coming, especially now that I look back at all the clues and subtle turns of phrase. You're really good at that, Giant! Adding in small elements of foreshadowing that don't seem like anything at the time, but then explode into a "HOW DID NOT REALIZE IT" later. Like when Vaarsuvius mentions "One's family must be protected when the need arises" to Roy back at Cliffport. But this really takes the cake. All the mentions of "special diet" and whatnot out of Malack, and I just assumed it was going along the lines of the hummus Vaarsuvius was eating later. But now the implications of "my children" that Malack talks about...wow, such a deeper meaning.

I was extra-surprised by that last panel because as I was reading the comic, my eye kind of hit on the last big page and saw the black magic aura, so I was like "Oh no, he's using Slay Living or something! How terrible! Must not look!" Then I read through, dreading the inevitable, and then got to the last panel and-"HOLY HELL HE'S BITING HIM. AAH! WHAT? Oh...OH!!! OH MY GOD!"

[TheSummoner]

Huh... I always thought Malak was against that sort of thing.

[Mandrake]

Probably a vampire spawn. Mind you belkar probably has a couple of attempts to break free before his Con is drained. Although with a +8 str modifier and a size bonus, it's going to be hard for Belkar to break free from Malacks grasp

I might be wrong, but:

Sorry, no. Person held. Thanks for playing.

[Pronounceable]

I did NOT expect this. It seemed so obvious that I dismissed it's even possible. Well played Giant.

[MeanMrsMustard]

Hold on, guys! He might just eat him.

I don't think so. That kind of conflicts with his "Perhaps I SHOULD make some more children" statement.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Huh... I always thought Malak was against that sort of thing.

Well, of course he is, he's one of them! Making undead mummies and leading them mindlessly to their death probably feels like a personal betrayal. We don't know for sure how he treats his "children" but considering his fury at Nale, it's a real shame Tsukiko died before meeting him.

[Icedaemon]

Wait - so the "I luvs Belkar so teh Giant wont kill him, just maek him un dead" people were right?
Obviously, it's too early to tell, but that's still surprising to even contemplate.

I'm betting on him currently pulling a bait-and-switch. Belkar will die at the hands of the Order and poor old Malack will lose his newest kid as well.

[mawexzon]

Create Spawn (Su)

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

There, so, a Vampire?

[Howler Dagger]

Probably a vampire spawn. Mind you belkar probably has a couple of attempts to break free before his Con is drained. Although with a +8 str modifier and a size bonus, it's going to be hard for Belkar to break free from Malacks grasp

I hope SO badly that belkar escapes, then dies. Mainly for the look on the undead belkar theorists' faces. I raelly dislike this turn of events, assuming belkar ends up as a vampire. I was really hoping the Giant wouldn't appease belkar fanboys by having him return or subvert the prophecies.

[Sunken Valley]

Okay, for the first time I'm dissatisfied with an OOTS development.

Belkar dying in an un-dramatic moment, separate from his party that's fine. Also FYI he's not dead yet there's still time.

Malack as a Vampire is a massive throw off. Firstly he hangs out in the sun multiple times. Doubtless, I'm sure Malack has some super magic homebrew item that as high priest of so many nations (and Tarquin's chum) he can afford. But it comes almost out of nowhere and the sun thing is a major trick. Not only that but shouldn't a god like Nergal be against undead as it is an attempt to cheat death. Although, Rich's interpretation of Nergal is different.

But the most important thing is that it almost ruins Malack's relationship with Durkon. Rich believes that the presecution of "Savage Humanoids" in fantasy is wrong and that he'd kill alignment, leaving it for the supernatural. The LE Lizardfolk befriending the LG Dwarf tied in with that. But now that Malack is a Undead LE Lizardfolk that undercuts all that. Because Malack is a inherently evil monster. Undead are and should always be evil (except Ghosts). They are fueled by Negative Energy. And Redcloak said they were tools in 830. So Durkon was chatting with an evil weapon the entire time. I was charmed by their alignment and race bridging friendship. Now that I know Durkon dined with a beast, not so much.

Will Rich reply? Unknown. But I am VERY MUCH looking forward to the commentary in Book 5 (which we are probably getting come Christmas) where he explains it all.

Everything else in your wonderful wonderful comic is perfect and I'm sure there's something I'm missing come the end.

[sam79]

That was...surprising. I think on many threads, the menu of the day will be words followed by humble pie and finished off with headwear dessert.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Okay, for the first time I'm dissatisfied with an OOTS development.

Belkar dying in an un-dramatic moment, separate from his party that's fine. Also FYI he's not dead yet there's still time.

Malack as a Vampire is a massive throw off. Firstly he hangs out in the sun multiple times. Doubtless, I'm sure Malack has some super magic homebrew item that as high priest of so many nations (and Tarquin's chum) he can afford. But it comes almost out of nowhere and the sun thing is a major trick. Not only that but shouldn't a god like Nergal be against undead as it is an attempt to cheat death. Although, Rich's interpretation of Nergal is different.

But the most important thing is that it almost ruins Malack's relationship with Durkon. Rich believes that the presecution of "Savage Humanoids" in fantasy is wrong and that he'd kill alignment, leaving it for the supernatural. The LE Lizardfolk befriending the LG Dwarf tied in with that. But now that Malack is a Undead LE Lizardfolk that undercuts all that. Because Malack is a inherently evil monster. Undead are and should always be evil (except Ghosts). They are fueled by Negative Energy. And Redcloak said they were tools in 830. So Durkon was chatting with an evil weapon the entire time. I was charmed by their alignment and race bridging friendship. Now that I know Durkon dined with a beast, not so much.

Will Rich reply? Unknown. But I am VERY MUCH looking forward to the commentary in Book 5 (which we are probably getting come Christmas) where he explains it all.

Everything else in your wonderful wonderful comic is perfect and I'm sure there's something I'm missing come the end.

I think one of the points with this is that Redcloak is wrong. At least partially. You can control an undead creature, but you can control a living one too. Redcloak using trickery to point Xykon in the direction he wants him to go is manipulation and control that he would use on a living Xykon as well. The Wights could be controlled with a spell, but they were weak...and wouldn't it be much the same if, say, Tsukiko had a bunch of human minions and Redcloak had used a Dominate Person spell to order them to kill her too?

But Malack? Malack's his own person, and he's free from control. If Redcloak used a control undead on him...well, wouldn't that be much the same as a Dominate on Tarquin? Left to his own devices, Malack's a potential weapon, and dangerous, but not necessarily a guaranteed weapon like Redcloak says. Anyone of that power in this setting can be a weapon.