What is, objectively, the best alignment?

[heavyfuel]

Which of the 9 possible alignments would say offers the most?

At first, True Neutral seems like the way to go. You can't be smitten or detected because of your alignment, and the big one, it doesn't restrict divine spells.

But then you the Exalted and Vile spells and feats, as well as powerful classes that require one alignment or another.

So, in general, which of the 9 is the best/worst?

[eggynack]

Really depends on build. There isn't really a blanket best alignment, in the same way that there's really not a blanket best race. Different classes and plans derive advantages from different alignments, so while a melee character will want to be non-lawful for a barbarian dip, a cleric won't care much at all about that, and while a cleric might want to hang out at neutral to get nearly the broadest possible access to spells (most anything aside from luminous armor specifically, as it targets good), the melee build won't get much from that alignment.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Since the Evil alignments can worship Elder Evils for 5 extra feats and in general the Exalted feats aren't that good I'd give it to them, this gets even better if you are cheese tolerant and are allowed to DCFS those Vile feats away.

[Red Fel]

Only one alignment is completely trustworthy without being naive or stupidly idealistic. Only one alignment can play well with Good and Evil alike. Only one alignment allows you to save orphans with one hand, burn puppies with the other, and still win the party over with your perfect smile. Only one alignment can regularly stab people in the back, yet do it in such a way that they feel like they deserve it. Only one alignment does all this, and does it with incomparable style.

There's only one logical choice, friend.

[Snowbluff]

Since the Evil alignments can worship Elder Evils for 5 extra feats and in general the Exalted feats aren't that good I'd give it to them, this gets even better if you are cheese tolerant and are allowed to DCFS those Vile feats away.

On the other hand, good spells are pretty good for like Wizards and Druids.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Fair enough, though Druids and Wizards get enough good spells that aren't alignment locked so I think Evil is better overall, sure there are some cases where being [Exalted] would be better.

[Silva Stormrage]

On the other hand, good spells are pretty good for like Wizards and Druids.

Can't you still cast good spells when evil? I thought you could just not cast Sanctified spells?

[eggynack]

On the other hand, good spells are pretty good for like Wizards and Druids.

They mostly need to be sanctified for this to be a factor. I dunno what the wizard list looks like with regards to good spells, but they can cast them no matter their alignment, and while evil druids cannot cast good spells, the quantity of [good] good druid spells is very low. Sanctified spells are, of course, a different matter in both cases, and luminous armor would act as a big incentive for druids to go full good even without the possibility of exalted feats (which are a strong incentive also).

Edit: Just fact checked that druid claim, and it looks like the best [good] druid spell is leonal's roar, or maybe blinding/unearthly beauty. Not especially expansive.

[jiriku]

It's hard to point at one alignment, simply because there's relatively little mechanical advantage to any of the alignments.

In support of good-aligned wizards, I'd mention that when it comes to planar binding, most of the really powerful evil outsiders have arcane casting, which is really just more of what a wizard can already do. Many of the good outsiders, on the other hand, are powerful divine spellcasters. You can expand your versatility significantly with a long-term bind of something good-aligned with cleric casting or clerical SLAs -- and a good-aligned caster should have a much easier time with that bind, since you've got similar alignment, goals, and modus operandi. But that's a "soft" advantage, based largely in roleplaying and player-DM interaction, not in crunch.

Arguing from the other direction, many powerful demons and all powerful fiendish creatures can use blasphemy, and being evil allows you to walk right through that. However, that benefit only applies if you're an evil character battling numerous powerful fiendish enemies -- a campaign dependent factor that certainly can't be assumed.

[OldTrees1]

Lawful Evil (actually more like Neutral Evil with lawful and good leanings).

You know how to work the system, usually to the point that it has to come to your defense.
You have more means available to you which means a greater chance at the greater good succeeding.
Oh and Evil rewards in this life while Good rewards in the next life. Guess which life the campaign focuses on?

[Sagetim]

Only one alignment is completely trustworthy without being naive or stupidly idealistic. Only one alignment can play well with Good and Evil alike. Only one alignment allows you to save orphans with one hand, burn puppies with the other, and still win the party over with your perfect smile. Only one alignment can regularly stab people in the back, yet do it in such a way that they feel like they deserve it. Only one alignment does all this, and does it with incomparable style.

There's only one logical choice, friend.

Yes. Neutral Good. As a Neutral Good character I have smited evil with my fist (no, not with actual smite attempts, just general curb stomping). I have burned enemies out of their places of living. I have accidentally sacrificed the soul of a party member to an arch devil level monster and in doing so set him free upon the world. As a Neutral Good I have seduced drow and red dragons alike with my incomparable versatility in oratory performances. As a neutral good character I have killed kings, raised armies, wiped cities clean of undead, and killed a taint corrupted Nerull. As a Neutral Good character I have posed as an archmage, disarmed the traps in the king's treasury for xp, and leveraged the resulting explosion of artificier levels to make all the magic items that character ever needed. As a Neutral Good character I have seen the mountain top, I have seen the depths, I have been not only to hell, but also to Super hell, I have traversed the factured minds of a single entity and come out with not only my sanity in tact, but his as well. As a Neutral Good character I have worked with the full spectrum of alignments without any problems, save that when someone tried to **** the party over, no matter their alignment, they found out the hard way that it was a bad idea. As a Neutral Good character I have unmade a wyvern to near death, then saved it's life, then diplomancered it into serving me as a mount before I had it get increased intelligence and levels in warblade, whereupon I commanded it to go forth and seduce the wyverns of an enemy army to keep them occupied for about a month.

Neutral Good is the best alignment.

[Taveena]

Okay, you know that 'objective' means 'not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts', and 'best' means 'of the most excellent or desirable type or quality', and 'desirable' is ENTIRELY subjective? This statement is nonsensical.

The only answer I can give is the one given by the Player Handbook, which states that Lawful Good is the best alignment, that Neutral Good is the best alignment, that Chaotic Good is the best alignment, that Lawful Neutral is the best alignment, that True Neutral is the best alignment, and that Chaotic Neutral is the best alignment. That is the only objective answer that can be given.

Or did you mean to say 'subjective', and confuse it for its antonym? They're fairly similar words.

[Psyren]

Can't you still cast good spells when evil? I thought you could just not cast Sanctified spells?

Only clerics (and paladins) are outright restricted from aligned spells. Everyone else can cast them, even if doing so repeatedly might have consequences.

[eggynack]

Only clerics (and paladins) are outright restricted from aligned spells. Everyone else can cast them, even if doing so repeatedly might have consequences.

Druids are held also to those restrictions. Might be others too, though I do not recall what they are if so.

Edit: Notably, there is at least one effectively [good] spell on the druid list that is probably better than leonal's roar, and that is SNA IV for a unicorn. Really great creature right there.

[TiaC]

Can't you still cast good spells when evil? I thought you could just not cast Sanctified spells?

Actually, nothing says neutral characters can't cast sanctified spells.

Evil characters cannot cast sanctified spells, including ones cast from magic items.

[Curmudgeon]

Chaotic Evil. You can serve Elder Evils for bonus [Vile] feats. You can take templates like Unseelie Fey (flight, DR, other stuff; always Evil), and Lolth-Touched (+6 STR, +6 CON; Chaotic Evil). And then you get the RP opportunities: slaughter your enemies or make them flee in terror?

[Sagetim]

Actually, nothing says neutral characters can't cast sanctified spells.

While it may not say it on that page, some of those sanctified spells require a variety of things ranging from having celestial blood to being exalted, to being a virgin.

[TiaC]

While it may not say it on that page, some of those sanctified spells require a variety of things ranging from having celestial blood to being exalted, to being a virgin.

Assimars can't be neutral? Virgins can't be neutral?

There may be a few you can't cast, but most of them work just fine.

[Douglas]

Okay, you know that 'objective' means 'not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts', and 'best' means 'of the most excellent or desirable type or quality', and 'desirable' is ENTIRELY subjective? This statement is nonsensical.

I'm fairly certain that what he really meant was "what is the game mechanically most powerful alignment".

[Taveena]

I'm fairly certain that what he really meant was "what is the game mechanically most powerful alignment".

In which case the answer is 'it depends on what you're trying to do'. If we're talking sheer reality-smacking power, then LG wins just because Pun-Pun uses that LG nature to bribe Pazuzu. If we're talking grapple builds, it's CE, because Black Blood Cultist is so strong. If you're taking Leadership for a melee cohort that'll reduce the saves of your enemies, then you want LE, because Paladin of Tyranny has less prerequisites than Blackguard.

Considering it over the entirety of D&D with the thousands of potential build goals, it's borderline impossible to say.

[Curmudgeon]

Actually, nothing says neutral characters can't cast sanctified spells.

Page 83 of Book of Exalted Deeds begs to differ.

SANCTIFIED MAGIC
For those willing to utterly devote themselves to good, great power awaits in the form of sanctified magic.

Looks like more than "nothing" there. You can't utterly devote yourself to Good with a non-Good alignment.

[TheifofZ]

In which case the answer is 'it depends on what you're trying to do'. If we're talking sheer reality-smacking power, then LG wins just because Pun-Pun uses that LG nature to bribe Pazuzu. If we're talking grapple builds, it's CE, because Black Blood Cultist is so strong. If you're taking Leadership for a melee cohort that'll reduce the saves of your enemies, then you want LE, because Paladin of Tyranny has less prerequisites than Blackguard.

Considering it over the entirety of D&D with the thousands of potential build goals, it's borderline impossible to say.

All alignments have mathematical reasons why they're good, with potent cheese to back it up. So really it boils down to "Optimization limitations on a build by build basis, and then personal preference."
And that wasn't hard to say at all.

And to the Sanctified magic argument, I have this to say. According to the rules, the Exalted feats and Sanctified magic are only available to characters who are not just 'generally good', but pure good. As in 'If the good alignment had, within it, a good, neutral, and evil alignment axis, where evil-good was occasionally lying or being kind of a jerk' then an Exalted character that is capable of using exalted feats and sanctified magic is a character who is good-good. They're the paladins in pure shining armor to paladins in shining armor levels of goodness here. A neutral wizard who occasionally kicks a bum and murders random people just because they attacked him? Cannot actually use sanctified magic. Not at all.
It's like saying that a kid's parents promise to get him ice cream if he gets above a 95% on his report card, and then he expects to get ice cream if he manages a 60% instead.

[Taveena]

I mean... I guess, if you were particularly dedicated, you could run through every single feat, class and prestige class in the game, and tally up which ones have an alignment prerequisite - just to work out which is the most VERSATILE alignment.

[Jormengand]

Page 83 of Book of Exalted Deeds begs to differ.

Looks like more than "nothing" there. You can't utterly devote yourself to Good with a non-Good alignment.

Right, but all that says is that good people derive great power from them. It doesn't say that neutral people don't, and even if it did, it wouldn't say that neutral people are forbidden from casting them, only from deriving great power from them.

[5ColouredWalker]

At first, True Neutral seems like the way to go. You can't be smitten

Wait? TN can't fall in love? Since when?
Smote.

LG. It's the alignment that that Pun Pun starts as, and no one can be objectively better than Pun Pun.
Unless you go based off the alignment that Pun Pun ends up, which I think is LE.

[ryu]

Page 83 of Book of Exalted Deeds begs to differ.

Looks like more than "nothing" there. You can't utterly devote yourself to Good with a non-Good alignment.

Ah but see that quote is irrelevant. It mentions good rather than Good. Those are two entirely different concepts in D&D, used in different places, and with different meanings. Both of those are also different from [Good].

[Chronos]

One odd asymmetry I've noticed: Holy Word and Word of Chaos both work only on creatures that can hear them, while Dictum and Blasphemy work regardless of hearing. So a deaf Lawful Evil creature is immune to all four.

[eggynack]

Page 83 of Book of Exalted Deeds begs to differ.

Looks like more than "nothing" there. You can't utterly devote yourself to Good with a non-Good alignment.

Your quote is missing context. The following line says, "These spells require a great sacrifice from the caster in exchange for powerful results." This strongly implies that, for sanctified spells, utterly devoting yourself to good means making this sacrifice, and making the sacrifice is built into the spells themselves.

[Jormengand]

Wait? TN can't fall in love? Since when?
Smote.

You know, I have a pet peeve for people who try to correct other people, but are actually wrong themselves. I smite, right now this instant, but yesterday I smote, and in the past I have smitten, meaning that right now, someone is being smitten by me, yesterday, someone was smitten by me, and last but not least, people have been smitten by me. However, none of them could have been true neutral, because true neutral people cannot be smitten by people, regardless of whether or not they can be smitten with people.

[ZamielVanWeber]

CE or LE. Extreme alignments give the most protection to the potentially deadly Word of Chaos/Dictum/Blasphemy/Holy Word spells. Also, except for corrupted/sanctified spells generally evil magic is more potent than good magic simply because evil has more tools (undead creation and Mindrape for example).