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2016-08-08, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Welcome to seventeenth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here, so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time.
For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here. Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.
And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:
SpoilerGitP Username Battle.net ID (US) aethernox ethernox#1948 AgentPaper AgentPaper#1193 AmberVael AmberVael#1225 Anarion Anarion55#1254 Antonok Antonok#1704 Anxe GoCorral#1879 Baelot Baelot#1149 Cogwheel OmegaNixon#1123 banthesun banthesun#1782 Dancing Owlbear Owlbear#1586 Destro Yersul DestroYersul#1239 D_Lord Volrock#1367 Duck999 Duck999#1349 Duos DoctorDapper#1491 Firedaemon33 Firedaemon#1486 flat_footed Hiigara#1357 Fleeing Coward Scorch#1432 GAAD GAAD#1126 Gaelbert SamHouston#1563 Gamerlord Gamerlord#1612 Gandariel Ciabatta#2958 Ganorenas Ganorenas#1457 Gomipile Glodd#1784 Gray Mage GrayMage#1723 Grytorm Grytorm#1777 Hamste Theorules#1234 Haruspex_Pariah HaruspexPari#1254 Hatevah Hatevah#1405 heronbpv Avan#1991 Hircine IllusiveMan#1616 jindra34 JinRia #1770 Johnjimco JohnJimco#1482 Karoht Karoht#1505 Kish Grazzt#1417 Krade Krade#1266 LegoShrimp legoshrimp#1722 Landis963 Landis963#1789 Loreweaver15 Loreweaver#1199 Lunix Vandal LunixVandal#1952 MacGiolla MacGiolla#1982 MathMage MathMage#1797 MCerberus MCerberus#1734 mistformsquirrl mistformsqrl#1430 moosabi Moossabi#1325 Mystic Muse NSFJunkblade#1400 Neon Knight VultureCrook#1434 Neriractor neriractor#1483 Nerocite JoeKage#1852 nhbdy Nohbdy#1927 Olinser Olinser#1393 Onionbreath GiantSquid#1845 OrcusMcP Orcus#1805 otakuryoga Scootaloo#1471 Pokonic pokonic#1166 PsyBomb PsyBomb#1878 Qwertystop Qwertystop#1897 r2d2go r2d2go#1262 Rodin Rodin#1811 Rosstin Rosstin#1609 SamBurke SamBurke#1486 Shishnarfne Gruschenka#1375 Sholos Veebeebee#1383 Stabbity Rabbit StabityRabit#1362 Temotei Temotei#1507 Tesla_pasta teslapasta#1973 Thanatos 51-50 Thanatos5150#1407 TheGlyphstone Glyphstone#1419 The Hellbug thehellbug#1216 The_Jackal TheJackal#1499 Togarth Asparag#1680 Trouble Brewing HairyPoppins#1949 UserClone UserClone #1545 Volatar Volatar#1750 Yael Urashima#1810 Yana Raltis#1807 ZeroNumerous ZeroNumerous#1913 Zevox Zevox#1522 Zmek JadeReaver #1783
GitP Username Battle.net ID (EU) Adumbration Adumbration#2419 Aran Thule AranThule#2780 Avaris Avaris#2378 Avilan the Grey Beardedgeek#2355 Beelzebub1111 SirArthurIV#1244 boomwolf BoomWolf#1169 Dada Scrattlebear#2863 D-naras Dinos #2811 Epinephrine_Syn SilverSeraph #2931 Fleeing Coward Scorch#1432 Frog Dragon Vasemmasti#2618 FyreByrd FyreByrd#2962 Gandariel Ciabatta#2958 GolemsVoice CrazyCat#29897 Hewhosaysfish HeWhoSezFish#2503 Hippie_Viking HippieViking#2866 Infernally Clay Winny#1904 Jormengand Trianna#2529 Lionheart Lionheart#2440 Mr.Silver SilverSmiles#2462 Murmaider Murmaider#2273 Posca Mazura#2636 Raddish Raddish#2730 ScionoftheVoid JayPsi#2775 ShinyRocks MoodyTuskarr#2790 Sian Sian#2690 Silfir Silfir#2863 SlyGuyMcFly SlGuyMcFly#2562 Tokay Tokay#2518 Tome Taejix#2836 Volthawk Volthawk#1214 Weimann Weimann#2716 Wraith Illusionist#2224 Xiander Xiander#2814 Last edited by Zevox; 2016-11-09 at 10:17 PM.
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2016-08-08, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
My number was never updated, it's 1357.
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2016-08-08, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
I hadn't noticed that I weren't in the list
Urashima#1810 in the US Server
I accept adds~Check out which is the Playground's favorite Dragon!
>> My Extended Signature <<
Hey guys, I'm a vestige! And a spell!
Awesome avatar by Cuthalion.
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2016-08-08, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2016-08-08, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-08-08, 08:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
You run into the craziest stuff down at the lower ranks. I just came across an old-school face hunter. I thought Reno had killed all of those!
I used to do LP's. Currently archived here:
My Youtube Channel
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My Games:
The Great Divide Dark Heresy - Finished
They All Uprose Dark Heresy - Finished
Dead in the Water Dark Heresy - Finished
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We All Fall Down Dark Heresy - Finished
Sea of Stars Rogue Trader - Ongoing
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2016-08-08, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Woo I named a thread!
Also, Wronchi continues to entertain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gulNsbnLeakCampaign Log (updated May 12, 2016)! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...d-other-tales)
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2016-08-08, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-08-08, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
I do respect that he came out and addressed the community about it. I think the main criticism still stands (and is one that he admits to in the video) - that if Purify had come out in a full expansion with a lot of cards pushing the power of Priest, nobody would have cared. It's a bad card, and bad cards happen. The issue is it being one of only 3 cards that Priest gets this adventure, and that really heightens the criticism. I do disagree with one thing he said though - he mentioned Majordomo Executus as a comparison "fun" card that isn't good but provides lots of chances for fun times.
The big difference with Majordomo is that he is NEUTRAL. No one class gets screwed over by his release, and as an Adventure card his existence doesn't even make people who get him randomly as a Legendary in a pack sad. There are Legendaries like that in this release too - Prince Malchezar and Moroes have both been brought up as cards that aren't good enough to see play, but nobody is upset about that because they are neutral minions. Anyone can build a deck around them and they don't affect the class power dynamics.
If Blizzard wants to push decktypes, that's fine, but they should either do so for classes that are already in a good spot, or do so in a full expansion where you can push for the decktype with one hand and balance with the other. Or just do so with Neutral minions, like all the Menagerie stuff that's hitting with this expansion (or as an even better example, Reno Jackson).
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2016-08-08, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
It won't show up in arena? Huh. Never heard that about a card before.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2016-08-08, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Honestly, the biggest issue with Purify is that it's a spell. Brode makes a fair point about a 1 mana card cycle with any effect will get run just for the free card draw. So the question is "Why are we putting this effect on a card with draw?".
Seriously imagine if instead of Purify we had something like "Purifying Acolyte" 2 mana 2/3 that silences a friendly minion. Gives you a choice to play it as a semi-decent early game drop in a pinch, or use it as a combo card later in the game with minions with bad effects. (bonus points if they also add in a powerful 1 drop for priest with a mitigating effect to potentially combo with it.)
As an aside I think it would be interesting if Silence persisted even after death, so you could have things like Resurrect combo with this deck type; where you summon a monster with a bad drawback, silence it, then when it dies you resurrect it already silenced. (As an aside if the new resurrect minion is in fact random, I feel like making Resurrect a discover effect where you can pick 1 of 3 random dead minions it would be pretty helpful).
Still wouldn't do anything to solve the core priest issues (to my understanding they're far too combo driven and reactionary as it is), but could be an interesting addition rather than a waste of space.If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2016-08-08, 11:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
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2016-08-09, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Still not enough.
It's a digital format, if you admit a card us utter trash before it's even released, fix the damn thing.
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2016-08-09, 12:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
On the one hand, I can understand if they don't feel they're able to test the card enough to release a fixed version. But on the other hand, they no doubt have a number of weeks before the Priest wing releases.
Of course, this is probably a consequence of their no-patch philosophy. If they get the balance wrong ahead-of-time and release it in a too-powerful state, they won't patch the card with a slight nerf because they've refused to do that.
Also, what was wrong with Priest having access to a 1-mana cantrip with a possibly-beneficial effect? Cycling is a neat effect to give a class.
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2016-08-09, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
They revealed it too late for that. The card would have to
A) Put it back into Design to re-form it into a decent card.
B) Run it through playtesting to make sure the new card isn't utterly broken (or even more worthless than Purify)
C) Run it through QA testing to make sure that no new bugs were introduced with the new card.
This would take several weeks at a minimum, more probably a couple months. Essentially, they would need to not release the card, and they can't even replace it with anything because even cards in development won't have gone through step C.
So as bad as it is, releasing it and admitting its garbage is still marginally less bad than yanking it and leaving Priest with only two cards.
Basically, Blizzard screwed up big-time. They misread the mood of the community, and have to suffer the hit. Hopefully it'll be a learning experience for them.
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2016-08-09, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
If there were more cards with either a bad deathrattle (Zombie Chow and Corrupted Healbot is the only one that springs to mind ... Dancing Swords would as well, if Mill decks weren't a thing) or a bad native magical effect (are there any of those?), it wouldn't be that bad ... only useful in niche decks sure, but not nearly as bad as it looks to be.
The easy cop-out, which would remove the 'Friendly' target, would make to to close to Silence IMO
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2016-08-09, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
It takes zero testing to ensure there are no bugs in a simple fix like mana cost or changing the silence to any minion.
And I don't believe any playtesting was made to begin with if this card made it to the final version,especially when the vastly superior 'silence' already exists, and is utterly unplayed. The fact every half-decent heathstone player, from rank 15 dudes to tournament champions could conclude in under 10 second that the card is not even worth considering in any deck means it is THAT bad, that it could not have possibly been tested.
Its one of the rare cases a card could be very well technically unplayable (you got no minions on board), and yet it's still bad when the conditions are met as the effect isn't one worth having.
Sure, at zero mana it might spin out of control, but at either one mana, or two but silence everything-there is no way it would be overpowered.in fact it would most likely still be unplayable.
This card is the latest and biggest addition to the list of reasons I believe Ben brode has no business making a digital CCG. As he seems to be unable to grasp the base concepts of the digital format, and the CCG format.Last edited by boomwolf; 2016-08-09 at 01:14 AM.
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2016-08-09, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Interesting video.
Frankly i am 100% sure that they have a bunch of already playtested and designed cards, ready for the next expansion. But that aside.
Bad for Priest now? He agrees.
Ban in Arena? He'll try removing it.
Sounds almost fair.
Anyways, a new meme was spawned, and probably the best video on youtubeOriginally Posted by actual quote from this forum
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2016-08-09, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Campaign Log (updated May 12, 2016)! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...d-other-tales)
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2016-08-09, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
At one, I can possibly see Purify leading to shenanigans, but I don't think it would happen (something like a Miracle Priest into Velen Combo).
...thinking about it, might try it out anyway, next to that low-win-rate Silence Priest.Avatar by Elder Tsofu
Originally Posted by Forrestfire
PsyBomb's Guides to the Akashic Mysteries (Now with all three classes!)
Fear Itself: the Dread
Extended Signature HERE
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2016-08-09, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
The point is that unless you *reliably* have something on the board AND silencing it provides an actual, significant advantage, Purify is just worse than Novice Engineer.
I've PW:S'd enemy minions in more than one occasion, Purify has a very high chance of being straight up useless.Last edited by Gandariel; 2016-08-09 at 09:27 AM.
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2016-08-09, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Honestly I think the problem isn't Purity being a bad card, but rather the Other two cards for priest isn't really at par with all the other cards that's coming out for other classes.
In this expansion we have Rogue who possibly can get a new archetype by stealing cards from other classes.
Hunters reinforce their archtype with more zoo beast that sticks to the board
Paladin got a card that help fix dragon paladin by giving an early dragon synergy card, and their chess piece is at least interesting
Shaman got some synergy going with totems again.
Warlock got some more cards that's discard base and some singing cutlery and teapots.
Warriors got another weapon that's interesting and potential combo with protect the king.
Some classes gets portal theme as fillers (not sure what Karazhan has to do with portals, except Medievh opening up one for the Orc invasion)
Priest has Onxy bishop which really doesn't do anything. The baseline for a 5 cost minion is 10 stats and here you have a 3/4 that'll definitely be killed by anything that's on the board at Turn 4. To justify that stat line you have to have a really powerful effect for this card. so basically it's a 3/4 body and a resurrect effect for 5 mana which looks fair on paper, except resurrect really isn't that reliable, and to make resurrect reliable you literally have to play strong minions in the early game which priest notoriously lacks. You could maybe say have soul priest & circle on T4, and then bring it back on T5 via Onxy bishop but to reliably do that you have to summon nothing else. Or you could summon Doomsayer in T2, Soulpriest in T4, Onxy bishop T5 and pray you survive the early game.
We could have the same argument for any other T1 to T4 drops for priest, the problem is the more early minions you summon early game; the less reliable Onxy bishop is going to resurrect that minion you need. It is fine except 1) Priest's early game minion don't synergize (as in they don't do the same thing), 2a) they don't do enough to gain board control, 2b) some require some sorta setup via lightspawn with hearthbuffs/Holy Champion with healing/Northshire Cleric with infinite draw so just bringing them back on their own won't do anything, and 3) have to trigger battlecry to be effective via Museum Curator/Wyrmest Agent/Twilight Whelp.
Priest of the Feast is another card that would have fooled us a two expansions ago due to how we over-rated spells in Hearthstone. If we can't make holy champion sticks, how are we going to get healing out of it enough to justify putting this card in your deck. 3/6 body for 4 will make it stick around for a turn but you need to babysit via healing to make it stay alive AND use spells in some way to make use of it's trigger. The best I can come up with is holy nova. Holy Fire would work too but holy fire on it's own is a pretty good card, so you'll have 8 points of healing total and 8 damage (5 from holy fire and 3 from attacking with the priest of the feast on T5). Not bad, except priest is kinda flooded with 4 drops between soulpriest, shifting shade, holy champion, and hooded acolyte for c'thun priest.
All this outrage for Purity is just the symptom for the problem with priest's class design. Blizzard probably went to the design team and set these restrictions 1) Silence isn't fun so you can't make a card that silent opponent's minions, 2) Make a card that let priest minion comes back, 3) make priest stay alive via some combo. So the team comes up with these three cards. I highly suspect that Purity will be useful in some events and it's pushing for some silent archetype with silent priest. (Ancient Watcher/Eerie Statue/Fel Reaver/Rag)
Honestly I'm still a strong believer that blizzard should go back to it's roots and make priest combo again, and to do that they need some mechanic that'll let them do what Scry does in MTG. Basically Tracking for Hunters to give them a way to reliably pull their combos.
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2016-08-09, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Whoa whoa whoa, Priest of the Feast is a pretty decent card!
It's honestly good and nobody had anthing to complain about it. Well, I mean aside from the fact that it's another 4-drop and we need 2s and 3s.
The existence of many cheap spells (Coin, Flash Heal, PWS, Circle) means that A) you can burst heal with this (turn 4 Priest Coin Flash heal is 11 health and a 3/6 on board)
And B) if your opponent is Aggro he is forced to deal with it or he'll eventually run out of steam and lose.
As for Onyx Bishop, I'm actually happy about it.
It's certainly not OP, but it's a very interesting card.
Resurrect is in theory a very strong card, but decks based around it wouldn't really work because well, you only had two copies of it in your deck and there's a decent chance that you'd just not draw any and be really sad.
Now you can have 4, which makes the archetype more consistent.
I don't know if the resurrect deck is good, but thanks to Onyx Bishop we can finally try it and see if it works.
Overall Onyx Bishop is a build-around-me card and it doesn't look *extremely* promising, but it is definitely interesting and I'm happy they printed it.
For example, if they print a 2 mana 4/5 with Battlecry: Gain -2/-2, it will work very well with both Onyx Bishop AND Purify.Last edited by Gandariel; 2016-08-09 at 10:31 AM.
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2016-08-09, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2016-08-09, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
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2016-08-09, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?
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2016-08-09, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
And injured blsdemaster junior is also decent enough to serve as a 1 drop, and not utterly suck to rez.
Just need a few more cards for early, finish the top as a nzoth deck, and you got yourself a possible priest deck.
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2016-08-09, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
I'm actually with Ben Brode on this one, especially the part where he says he's wrong.
They were never going to make Priest a viable arena class with 3 cards. That wasn't happening, if the point of Purify is to enable hypothetical funcombos with Barnes (Barnesing out a Deathwing, then Purifying it into a 12/12), then that works.
The issue is that right now the Hearthstone community is full of people complaining how weak Priest is, and is looking for a sign that the dev team knows and acknowledges that.
And Purify is just such an aggressively bad card (yes, it has high POTENTIAL, but tons of cards in Hearthstone have amazing Potential while remaining terrible cards), especially since Priest of the Feast and Onyx Bishop are Okay at best. Putting it out right now seems like a slap in the face.
Removing it from Arena is a good first step, mostly because of the other big complaint: That Blizzard (by making Firelands Portal common) does not care about Arena balance.
It's not a solution, but they are admitting there is a problem.
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2016-08-09, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Hearthstone 17: Disco isn't Dead!
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2016-08-09, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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