The Power of the Arkenpliers

[BRC]

The only confirmed Arkentool whose full powers we know about is the Arkenhammer, which has the following powers
1. Taming Dwagons
2. Hurling Lightning
3: turning walnuts to pigeons
Now, with the exception of the third, these things both support a hammerlike approach, blunt and unsubtle.

Now, what will happen when the Arkenpliers become attuned, pliers can twist and tweak things, so I'm thinking they will have the ability to greatly "twist" things, namely, true mind control. Not Subtle emotional control, not using the body as a puppet, but totally changing the motivations of somebody. Lets say that while ansom is the jelly filling in the donut of doom the arkenpliers become attuned to him, he could use their powers to give some of the dwagons as their primary motivation, protecting him and defeating stanley and they would effectivly switch sides.
What are Your theories about the arkenpliers?

[CNagy]

I think they would give access to another unit. Perhaps if Wanda were attuned to the Arkenpliers, she could use it to uncroak every unit that has ever fallen within X hexes of her position. It's not likely, but I just think it'd be cool if they somehow wrested the pliers from Ansom's grasp, and suddenly the army surrounding Gobwin Knob is, itself, surrounded by the uncroaked corpses of untold turns worth of warfare throughout the ages.

[Midgititp]

How about this thought? I think you're onto something with the mind control thing. BUT, they also are a good tool for croaking undead.. err.. uncroaked.

But who else do we know that is good at manipulating others AND dealing with uncroaked?

My money's on the Arkenpliers getting attuned to her.

[BRC]

Yeah, theres also the thing about maybe they attune to those who fit their style, Stanley is unsubtle, so is the hammer. The pliers might be a natural fit for wanda then

[tomaO2]

Since the basic ability is to kill the undead. Perhaps it's a clerical type item. With healing and turn undead powers.

[Leonson]

Well, it was specifically said that their power was fate magic.

In the same statement Ansom said that he couldn't use fate magic, and he knew of "no one" who could (Thus the reason the pliers aren't attuned to him).

And then in the same statement (with heavy foreshadowing) he also stated that Stanley had "no one" to lead his troops.

The pliers aren't meant for him, they're meant for Parson.

That being the case, part of Ansom's bad decision making may be credited to the pliers moving to their intended owner.

[jindra34]

Since the basic ability is to kill the undead. Perhaps it's a clerical type item. With healing and turn undead powers.

Ok now where have we seen a cleric in erfworld?

Well, it was specifically said that their power was fate magic.
In the same statement Ansom said that he couldn't use fate magic, and he knew of "no one" who could (Thus the reason the pliers aren't attuned to him).

Ansom said fate magic could not help him

And then in the same statement (with heavy foreshadowing) he also stated that Stanley had "no one" to lead his troops.

And how does that lead to this

The pliers aren't meant for him, they're meant for Parson.
That being the case, part of Ansom's bad decision making may be credited to the pliers moving to their intended owner.

If they are fated to attune how would they be fated to attune to someone who was not originally part of the universe?

I think Wanda is more fitting.

[Scientivore]

[snip] If they are fated to attune how would they be fated to attune to someone who was not originally part of the universe?

I think Wanda is more fitting.

The Perfect Warlord spell was Findamancy and Predictamancy. Predictamancy is Fate magic (classed under Hocus Pocus). So, it would be plausible for a divine artifact that is aligned with Fate magic to know that Parson was fated to come by the power of PLOT.

That said, the Arkenpliers appear to focus on Croakamancy (Naughtymancy on the Fate axis), so I think that Wanda is the most likely recipient. I just think that Parson is more likely than Stanley.

...

Man. Ansom would be so mad if he knew that we were already talking about who would get the Arkentool that he hasn't even lost yet!

...

Huh. I was just looking back at klog #2. I think that I noticed a pattern: Stanley tends to be associated with Numbers-aligned stuff. Of course, Wanda tends to be associated with Fate-aligned stuff, Sizemore tends to be associate with Erf-aligned stuff and they have one of each kind of Eyemancer. So, where does that leave Parson? Prediction:

Spoiler

Show

The 3-D glasses seem like a Lookamancy (Erf-aligned) thing to me and we know that the bracer is Mathamancy (Numbers-aligned). It would make sense to me for Parson to end up being equally aligned with all three known axes. So, I predict that his next Stupid Meal toy will be Fate-aligned. Also -- jumping way ahead -- after Wanda gets the Arkenpliers and Sizemore gets the Arkentrowel (or whatever), Parson will get the final known Arkentool. It will turn out to be aligned to a hitherto-unknown fourth axis, Meta magic, which is not directly applicable to native Erfworlders...but which Parson can use to affect other artifacts (and Titans if he meets any).

[ChowGuy]

Since the basic ability is to kill the undead. Perhaps it's a clerical type item. With healing and turn undead powers.

That would be a secondary ability, like the Arkenhammer turning walnuts to pigeons. Correction summon pigeons. Either way, it's like just a minor anamoly derived from their true power. Summon pigeon (a small flying unit) versus summon Dwagon (a big flying unit. Turn uncroaked (who are already dead and deteriorating) to dust versus.... Turn everything to dust?

Both "minor" powers by the way could be seen as manifestations of "Changamancy." Considering they were tools left from when the Titans built [changed] the world, its not an unreasonable stretch to assume some vestige of that lurks within them.

Someone else brought up the question "What if the Arkenkentools as artifacts are really in control of the wielders? I don't know, we've not seen much to support that, but consider this pondering anyway:

We first see the Arkenpliers while Ansom is addressing his Warlords. He notes there that "an alliance this size is a hardship to all of our sides." So for one thing, we know that there are/were "sides" in this gameworld before they all came together against Stanley. Now think, if this is supposed to be a typical 4X wargame model, the ultimate goal of each side is to become the sole ruler. Stanley has announced that as his intention, but what of the others? Why assume that Ansom/Slately do not have the same ultimate goal? And what is one of the best ways of achieving that then by leading your weaker rivals into a massive battle with your strongest, then picking up the pieces that are left over. Hmmmmm....

ETA: link

[WarriorTribble]

Ok now where have we seen a cleric in erfworld?

We briefly see a elf healer in strip 22

[jindra34]

We briefly see a elf healer in strip 22

*twitch* I ASKED FOR A DEFINITIVE CLERIC NOT A GENERIC HEALER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WarriorTribble]

Since when was anyone talking about a cleric instead of "cleric type?"

[jindra34]

Since when was anyone talking about a cleric instead of "cleric type?"

1. The person is nurse-type not cleric-type (see the uniform)
2. What i'm trying to point out is that Dnd rule tie ins are unlikely.

[ChowGuy]

*twitch* I ASKED FOR A DEFINITIVE CLERIC NOT A GENERIC HEALER

What about the Hippiemancers? Sizemore addresses one as "sister" and Wanda refers to a "Grand Abbie." INow granted the actual name is another pop culture reference, the form is suggestive of a clerical title, and if Gurus aren't Clerics, what are they?

[jindra34]

What about the Hippiemancers? Sizemore addresses one as "sister" and Wanda refers to a "Grand Abbie." INow granted the actual name is another pop culture reference, the form is suggestive of a clerical title, and if Gurus aren't Clerics, what are they?

Gurus of course. And hippies often refer to each other as brother or sister. so 'nother shot down.

[WarriorTribble]

Don't know about tomaO2, but I interpreted "cleric type" as any class that's the opposite of uncroaking (necromancy), which would include any group capable of magical healing. Not to mention healing and ablities like turn undead aren't unique to DnD.

[Scientivore]

That would be a secondary ability, like the Arkenhammer turning walnuts to pigeons. Correction summon pigeons.

Bogroll's pigeon pie had walnuts although he didn't remember putting any walnuts in it, so I think that you were right the first time. Since Changemancy is Fate-aligned Stuffamancy and Stuffamancy is the Matter element by itself, I doubt that Changemancy could make a living, moving pigeon out of a walnut.

When Stanley describes both processes himself, he speaks of "tame a dwagon" and "bust a nut" -- both of which are slant rhyme. I know that it's stretching a little but I think that those powers of the Arkenhammer might both be aspects of Rhyme-o-mancy (Numbers-aligned Stagemancy).

Alternatively, turning walnuts into pigeons is really bizarre so it could be Weirdomancy (Numbers-aligned Spookism). Also, Ansom believes that the dwagons will defend Stanley to the death as long as he has the Arkenhammer, implying that they don't require upkeep, so it could be Moneymancy (Numbers-aligned Clevermancy).

Incidentally, Stanley appears to be obsessed with stats, money, points and xp, as if he had a particular affinity for Numbers or something. It's not definitive but it sure is mighty suggestive.

[Vreejack]

I wouldn't get all excited about assuming that the arkenhammer can summon pigeons. When Bogroll tried to bake them in a pie they reverted to walnuts. If you try to bake dwagons in a pie they don't revert to anything--they remain dead dwagons. It's an eastern delicacy.

As for Scientivore's spoiler up there, I was wondering the same thing but it still seems sort of vague. It's really a weak pattern, but time will tell. We will certainly see if the hypothesis is confirmed.

[tomaO2]

I was using clerical as a general term. Almost any video game that has specialized healer characters or even movies where people gain healing abilities (also priests) will also likely give them the ability to hurt undead as well. Don't you think your being a tad anal on the word "clerical" jindra34?

We can talk about twisting and how the non-magical function of pliers can perhaps drop hints on what the pliers can do at full strength but it doesn't really help. If the hammer was like that, then wouldn't using it to hit the ground would make earthquakes or something be the logical ability since hammers smash things(there is the nut cracking thing but that's just so utterly bizarre and useless that I don't think it counts as anything of import except as a little funny addition for fun)? No smashing at all almost. Instead we get lighting and the dwagon air units? You can't really work that into the hammer concept (I don't agree with the blunt and unsubtle idea as lighting does not shoot straight but weaves around. For blunt and unsubtle I'd expect more of a single beam of energy that goes straight in single straight lines. Dwagons have many uses with interesting effect weapons. Parson has shown great subtlety using his dwagon units, as we all can see).

It seems to me that it's stronger evidence to consider what limited powers it currently possesses. It's power is the ability to kill undead. Specifically the undead. When you talk about killing undead (or demons, evil spirits, etc), the mind turns to healing magic templates. That's the way it usually works with this sort of thing and NOT just with D&D. Perhaps Ansom could even heal people if he tried but never thought about it in a non combat situation.

Anyway, I think that is the most likely option. Though it can also kill other creatures like dwagons... So who knows? Maybe it has genral crocking abilities after all. Guess we'll see.

This is just my guess but it's as good as anything else we can come up with with the limited information we currently have and it certainly doesn't deserve to be dismissed out of hand.

[Neryth]

I'd expect something like the ability to actually move units over the board (which would conveniently allow him to escape the trap).

[Magistrate]

What I want to know is why everyone automatically assumes that Stanley is going to allow anyone else to attune to them, even if it's his 'trusted' lieutenants. That's a lot of power to put into the hands of someone you barely know or someone you'd have reason to mis-trust. Wanda seems quite capable of making traitors...

PS: Gobwin Knob is not Dungeons and Dragons, people.

[tainsouvra]

What I want to know is why everyone automatically assumes that Stanley is going to allow anyone else to attune to them, even if it's his 'trusted' lieutenants. That's a lot of power to put into the hands of someone you barely know or someone you'd have reason to mis-trust. Wanda seems quite capable of making traitors...

I'd like to know why you're assuming Stanley can do anything to prevent it, should the Arkenpliers decide otherwise.

[Welf]

I'd like to know why you're assuming Stanley can do anything to prevent it, should the Arkenpliers decide otherwise.

I'm assuming it because he can disband Parson immedeatly. Wanda is one his units and normally overlords in strategic games can delete their units.
Maybe the power of an arkentool can cancel the spell. But only maybe.

Maybe the ability of the arkenplier to croak is just a sideeffect of being an artefakt. I'm playing a system (not DnD) where demons can only be wounded or croaked with magical or devine enchanted stuff; and such weapons have automatic double damage against undead. Perhaps the arkentool have the same ability and Stanley just never tried.

[Aquillion]

I'm assuming it because he can disband Parson immedeatly. Wanda is one his units and normally overlords in strategic games can delete their units.
Maybe the power of an arkentool can cancel the spell. But only maybe.

I strongly suspect that, everything else aside, attuning yourself to an Arkentool automatically makes you an overlord unit. This would explain (in part) how Stanley came to power.

[katana2665]

Pliers can also strip wire and cut steel rod...How that translates into Erfworld terms, I can't tell you...

[Leewei]

PS: Gobwin Knob is not Dungeons and Dragons, people.

More like Dungeons and Dwagons. Had to be said!

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

Pliers can also strip wire and cut steel rod...How that translates into Erfworld terms, I can't tell you...

Negates armour of victims?
Cut's enemy weapons in half?
combat bonus versus cloth golems? (ply! rend! tear!)

[Hankosha]

I'm thinking it gives greater control over uncroaked - Allowing the user to either create X Numer of uncroaked without the use of a spell every turn/ Summon a certain type of Unit previously inaccessable. (Bone Dwagons, anyone?)

[Evil DM Mark3]

Well, it was specifically said that their power was fate magic.

In the same statement Ansom said that he couldn't use fate magic, and he knew of "no one" who could (Thus the reason the pliers aren't attuned to him).

And then in the same statement (with heavy foreshadowing) he also stated that Stanley had "no one" to lead his troops.

The pliers aren't meant for him, they're meant for Parson.

That being the case, part of Ansom's bad decision making may be credited to the pliers moving to their intended owner.

Interesting. In that case the Tool would have control over them, Parson has to do as he says, but not own them. This allows for greater flexability in their use (ie two idfferant places) but would the Tool go with that?

[Xero_Storm]

(there is the nut cracking thing but that's just so utterly bizarre and useless that I don't think it counts as anything of import except as a little funny addition for fun)

Maybe, but then again this is Erfworld we're talking about. The entire world was supposedly built by giant Elvis impersonators. Don't be so quick to dismiss something for being "bizarre and useless".